Public sector strikes: Day of disruption as 20,000 set to strike in East Lancashire (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Having been involved in strike action, all I can say is; this will get you nowhere. Apart from of course a growing resentment from those who have to take ANOTHER day off to look after their children.

nowt but greed...some people dont even have a pension.if a teacher or doctor cant fund their own retirement on the tens of thousands a year its time to give up.moan moan moan.try living in the real world for once.cant these people see we as a country are broke.but no greed comes before anything else.just 1 day off will cost the country millions people not able to go to work because of children not able to go to school.this will cost me £75 a day.you will get no sympathy from me or family.the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority.

the 76% is miss leading.only around 25% of people balloted actually voted.what happened to the other 75%who could of voted..did not bother.so how the hell can you come up with figures like that.

Gary The Snail wrote:
Having been involved in strike action, all I can say is; this will get you nowhere. Apart from of course a growing resentment from those who have to take ANOTHER day off to look after their children.

Don't care about people having to take time off. This is about solidarity. If these people don't reaize that one day it could be them then hell mend them!

coates warder wrote:
nowt but greed...some people dont even have a pension.if a teacher or doctor cant fund their own retirement on the tens of thousands a year its time to give up.moan moan moan.try living in the real world for once.cant these people see we as a country are broke.but no greed comes before anything else.just 1 day off will cost the country millions people not able to go to work because of children not able to go to school.this will cost me £75 a day.you will get no sympathy from me or family.the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority.

You sound like a tory politician mate. This country is one of the 5 richest in the world! There's money for a civil list, wars that don't interest anyone and a London Olympics that only interests a few but none for important things like social services, NHS etc. What the government wants is for people to believe that the country is broke and keep more for themselves. this country has loads of money; If you want to ensure the government spends it wisely, you need to start asking a dofferent set of questions instead of bleating about selfish motives!

Total and utter selfish disgrace.

Acting like children - me, me, me. They don't care if it costs other people money, people who already pay for their amazing pensions.

They are already better paid, with far better perks than the private sector -without their amazing pensions. But they want to strike to make the already skint majority pay more money into those completely unsustainable pensions.

How supremely selfish.

Total and utter selfish disgrace.

Acting like children - me, me, me. They don't care if it costs other people money, people who already pay for their amazing pensions.

They are already better paid, with far better perks than the private sector -without their amazing pensions. But they want to strike to make the already skint majority pay more money into those completely unsustainable pensions.

How supremely selfish.

coates warder wrote:
nowt but greed...some people dont even have a pension.if a teacher or doctor cant fund their own retirement on the tens of thousands a year its time to give up.moan moan moan.try living in the real world for once.cant these people see we as a country are broke.but no greed comes before anything else.just 1 day off will cost the country millions people not able to go to work because of children not able to go to school.this will cost me £75 a day.you will get no sympathy from me or family.the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority.

Ahh, £75! And we wonder where your objection to the right thing comes from!

And the part I cannot understand is how you feel justified in condemning those taking overdue industrial action when you didn't take much notice of the section of that group who tried to teach you.

gudari wrote:

coates warder wrote:
nowt but greed...some people dont even have a pension.if a teacher or doctor cant fund their own retirement on the tens of thousands a year its time to give up.moan moan moan.try living in the real world for once.cant these people see we as a country are broke.but no greed comes before anything else.just 1 day off will cost the country millions people not able to go to work because of children not able to go to school.this will cost me £75 a day.you will get no sympathy from me or family.the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority.

You sound like a tory politician mate. This country is one of the 5 richest in the world! There's money for a civil list, wars that don't interest anyone and a London Olympics that only interests a few but none for important things like social services, NHS etc. What the government wants is for people to believe that the country is broke and keep more for themselves. this country has loads of money; If you want to ensure the government spends it wisely, you need to start asking a dofferent set of questions instead of bleating about selfish motives!

Keep more for themselves? Ever heard of Greece? Ireland? Portugal? Spain? Italy?

Are their politicians keeping more for themselves there? Have those countries got loads of money too?

This country doesn't have loads of money. It is currently BORROWING lots of money to pay for pensions already. Why would a country with loads of money be borrowing any at a time when it causing countries to go under?

We do not want to borrow any more. We are borrowing far too much, and have far too much debt. We need to make the books balance. A massive cost to everyone is public sector pensions. How is that fair on everyone?

The last labour government borrowed stupid amounts to pay for pointless, drawn out, unwinnable and eye wateringly expensive wars. They also were the ones bidding for the London olympics. All on borrowed money.

Ever increasing debt was the labours economic policy. It didn't work - it was as reckless as the bankers. Possibly more so. We need to make the books balance now. We cannot afford those totally unsustainable pensions. It's bizarrely selfish of public sector workers to just expect everyone else to pay for something they can never hope to afford themselves.

gudari wrote:

Gary The Snail wrote:
Having been involved in strike action, all I can say is; this will get you nowhere. Apart from of course a growing resentment from those who have to take ANOTHER day off to look after their children.

Don't care about people having to take time off. This is about solidarity. If these people don't reaize that one day it could be them then hell mend them!

This strike is going to upset people who hav'nt even got a pension to look forward to. 'like myslf'
unfortunately ..Infact if i was in the position that the strikers are in life for myself would'nt be as bad as it is and i would have a pension to look forward to.When your looking out of a gutter its difficult to find sympathy for anyone who strikes and use their grasp on our society to blackmail us into giving them what they want. Some of us were fcuked over years ago.Others need to realise that the money train as broken dramatically not even enough steam for a little whistle and the driver (G Brown)did one with what was left.He is desribed as being (Scottish)..'Sez it all'......

Coates Warder, "the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority." In response I always thought the same applied to our political masters. However, when it comes down to it the Conservatives only got 36.1% of the vote in the last election. How can they then demand changes to employment law, when if they were to abide by their own logic we would be entitled to a general election. The Tories must be laughing their heads off. Instead of getting angry at the people who are having us over we are fighting amongst ourselves. Why are people not as vociferous about such things as Vodaphone being let off £6 billion in taxes when HMRC are chasing 1.4 million citizens for £2 billion? Why did no one cry out when the profitable portion of National Rock was sold for a loss leaving us, the taxpayer, with the part that is loss making and amongst other things why does foreign aid add up to £500 per person in the UK. Don't get me wrong I know things are tough, but when we are told "we are all in this together" I know that a small minority are still profiting whilst the rest of us are suffering.

Walsh wrote:
Coates Warder, "the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority." In response I always thought the same applied to our political masters. However, when it comes down to it the Conservatives only got 36.1% of the vote in the last election. How can they then demand changes to employment law, when if they were to abide by their own logic we would be entitled to a general election. The Tories must be laughing their heads off. Instead of getting angry at the people who are having us over we are fighting amongst ourselves. Why are people not as vociferous about such things as Vodaphone being let off £6 billion in taxes when HMRC are chasing 1.4 million citizens for £2 billion? Why did no one cry out when the profitable portion of National Rock was sold for a loss leaving us, the taxpayer, with the part that is loss making and amongst other things why does foreign aid add up to £500 per person in the UK. Don't get me wrong I know things are tough, but when we are told "we are all in this together" I know that a small minority are still profiting whilst the rest of us are suffering.

Well said walsh but the people on here (the sheep) don't seem to realise that it isn't police officers, members of the armed forces (yes they are public sector workers too), teachers and health workers who caused the economic crisis it was the Bankers who wrecked the economy and the Politicians who let them.

Agreed, good call.

Yet these half witted, mindless sheep won’t don’t complain about this, which is the real reason we are in the sh*t -

The boss of a bailed-out bank will retire with a £5million pension pot.
Eric Daniels was ousted from Lloyds in March but has been on the pay roll ever since, picking up almost £100,000 a month for doing nothing.
Lloyds, which is 41 per cent owned by the taxpayer, has no plans to throw a retirement party for the former chief executive. ‘What is there to celebrate?’ one colleague asked.

Last year Mr Daniels, who was behind a disastrous takeover of HBOS, took home £1,122,000 in basic pay and benefits and was paid a £1.45million bonus.
The 60-year-old has, however, kept hold of his corporate perks including the use of a company car and an office in central London.
The bank was also footing his tax adviser’s bills. It means that Mr Daniels will have collected £561,000 in salary, pension top-ups and other perks without doing any work for Lloyds.
His package contrasts sharply with the fate of 43,000 staff who have been made redundant since 2008 or are scheduled to lose their jobs.
Liberal Democrat peer Lord Oakeshott said: ‘Shareholders who lost their shirts, taxpayers who had to bail Lloyds out and small businesses starved of loans will all find it hard to wish Mr Daniels well as he sails off into the sunset.’
Mr Daniels leaves with a retirement fund more than 200 times larger than the typical private sector worker’s. The pot, which stood at £5.03million last December, would pay out £210,000 a year.
Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, said: ‘The tens of thousands of ordinary banking staff, who have lost their jobs thanks to the poor judgment of those at the top, will be shocked that the Lloyds boss has been winding down his job on £100,000 a month.
‘Banks refuse to accept that their rewards for failure helped create this financial mess and successive governments have failed to stand up to them.’
But the deal gravely weakened Lloyds, which had to be rescued from collapse with a taxpayer bailout of more than £20billion. Since then more than 28,000 jobs have gone.
This will bring to 43,000 the total number of positions eliminated since the HBOS takeover three years ago –thought to be the largest ever jobs cull by a UK bank.
After pouring more than £20billion into Lloyds, the government is sitting on a paper loss of £9.3billion on its investment.

Read more: http://www.thisismon
ey.co.uk/money/news/
article-2041309/Lloy
ds-boss-Eric-Daniels
-retire-5million-pen
sion-pot--43-000-sta
ff-lost-jobs.html#ix
zz1ep8cswBy

"After pouring more than £20billion into Lloyds, the government is sitting on a paper loss of £9.3billion on its investment."

Which would just about cover the public sector pension 'black hole'...

Baaah..

jack daniels wrote:
"After pouring more than £20billion into Lloyds, the government is sitting on a paper loss of £9.3billion on its investment."

Which would just about cover the public sector pension 'black hole'...

Baaah..

Another shocking loss to the average man on the street caused by the last labour government.

Exactly like the completely bloated public sector they created to win votes.

What a total disgrace eh. What's Tony Blair doing these days? He's some kind of special envoy for Israel isn't he? He certainly earns good money.

It was Gordon Brown who sidled up to the bankers. It was Gordon Brown who decided they should have "light touch regulation" which allowed them to take such risks. It was Gordon Brown who showered them with knighthoods for taking the risks which led the world to the brink of collapse. It was Gordon Brown who decided that the tax payer would bail out the banks to stupid amounts which has now led to losses.

Good old Labour eh. The party of the people. As long as the people are public sector workers anyway. Then they make everyone else pay for stupidly high pensions and wages.

Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, is a fat cat just like the bankers. Massive pay, massive bonuses, massive pension.

The unions are a shocking, disgusting reflection on what they were created for. They were created by decent people to get fair conditions. Now they are just fat cat societies who look after themselves to the detriment of the masses, even showing outright contempt to the general public by putting them out and costing them money with needless strikes.

Shame on you.

Jack Herer wrote:
It was Gordon Brown who sidled up to the bankers. It was Gordon Brown who decided they should have "light touch regulation" which allowed them to take such risks. It was Gordon Brown who showered them with knighthoods for taking the risks which led the world to the brink of collapse. It was Gordon Brown who decided that the tax payer would bail out the banks to stupid amounts which has now led to losses.

Good old Labour eh. The party of the people. As long as the people are public sector workers anyway. Then they make everyone else pay for stupidly high pensions and wages.

Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, is a fat cat just like the bankers. Massive pay, massive bonuses, massive pension.

The unions are a shocking, disgusting reflection on what they were created for. They were created by decent people to get fair conditions. Now they are just fat cat societies who look after themselves to the detriment of the masses, even showing outright contempt to the general public by putting them out and costing them money with needless strikes.

Shame on you.

but NONE of this is the fault of the actual public sector workers yet you are still repeating the same brain washed chant as told by the Condems and media.

Baaah...

Jack Herer wrote:
It was Gordon Brown who sidled up to the bankers. It was Gordon Brown who decided they should have "light touch regulation" which allowed them to take such risks. It was Gordon Brown who showered them with knighthoods for taking the risks which led the world to the brink of collapse. It was Gordon Brown who decided that the tax payer would bail out the banks to stupid amounts which has now led to losses.

Good old Labour eh. The party of the people. As long as the people are public sector workers anyway. Then they make everyone else pay for stupidly high pensions and wages.

Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, is a fat cat just like the bankers. Massive pay, massive bonuses, massive pension.

The unions are a shocking, disgusting reflection on what they were created for. They were created by decent people to get fair conditions. Now they are just fat cat societies who look after themselves to the detriment of the masses, even showing outright contempt to the general public by putting them out and costing them money with needless strikes.

Shame on you.

Anyone with more than the bare minimum amount of brain cells distributed to you will see your nonsense and you can almost hear eyes rolling in heads. How dim can ANYone get to swallow the guff spewed forth by the current criminals in charge about the last lot?

There's sheep on Pendle Hill with more nous than displayed here by you. Are you a Tory councillor using a nom-de-plume?

And none of it is the fault of the private sector workers.

So why should they get shafted for it and also shafted over by public sector workers by having to pay for their bloated pensions?

They need the money themselves thanks, they are already skint.

Loot a shop:Get sent to prison
Loot the economy:Get bailed out by the government and then reward yourself a huge bonus.

Jack Herer wrote:
And none of it is the fault of the private sector workers.

So why should they get shafted for it and also shafted over by public sector workers by having to pay for their bloated pensions?

They need the money themselves thanks, they are already skint.

but the private sector are not being shafted by the public sector. The pension was part of their employment contract, and used as a tool to ensure that well trained staff remained employed within the council and not head-hunted by the then affluent private sector. Just because times have changed, it does not mean it's fair to tear up the employment contacts because the politicians raided the pension piggy bank.

Some of the public service pension pots are in profit eg the NHS and others would have been if the money had been invested wisely instead of just being used as government income as the 3% additional contributions being demanded by the Con/Dem government will be. Those in the private sector should have decent pensions too but that is down to the capitalists who run their companies, not the fault of those in the public service without whom the country would fall apart.
As has been said above the government want to drive a wedge between different groups of workers - it's an old trick of the Tory Party and fellow travellers - the trick is to ignore this and for all workers to demand a fair and just society where all share in the wealth created. It won't happen until employees have fair represenation on boards of directors - after all it is the skill and hard work of employees which bring in the profits to companies along with the skill of their managers. Yes we should all be in it together but, alas, in the current way society is organised that is certainly not the case and until we truly are the country will continue to decline in many ways.

jack daniels wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:
And none of it is the fault of the private sector workers.

So why should they get shafted for it and also shafted over by public sector workers by having to pay for their bloated pensions?

They need the money themselves thanks, they are already skint.

but the private sector are not being shafted by the public sector. The pension was part of their employment contract, and used as a tool to ensure that well trained staff remained employed within the council and not head-hunted by the then affluent private sector. Just because times have changed, it does not mean it's fair to tear up the employment contacts because the politicians raided the pension piggy bank.

The public sector head-hunting thing turned out to be complete lies to justify those stupidly high wages which Labour borrowed heavily to pay.

The contracts were written up by people who said we should trust the bankers, who knighted the bankers, who bankrupt our country.

The contracts weren't agreed by those paying. Those paying are skint. Those paying want fairness. That's all.

Noiticer wrote:
Some of the public service pension pots are in profit eg the NHS and others would have been if the money had been invested wisely instead of just being used as government income as the 3% additional contributions being demanded by the Con/Dem government will be. Those in the private sector should have decent pensions too but that is down to the capitalists who run their companies, not the fault of those in the public service without whom the country would fall apart.
As has been said above the government want to drive a wedge between different groups of workers - it's an old trick of the Tory Party and fellow travellers - the trick is to ignore this and for all workers to demand a fair and just society where all share in the wealth created. It won't happen until employees have fair represenation on boards of directors - after all it is the skill and hard work of employees which bring in the profits to companies along with the skill of their managers. Yes we should all be in it together but, alas, in the current way society is organised that is certainly not the case and until we truly are the country will continue to decline in many ways.

Any pension scheme which pays far more out than it gets in are like ponzi schemes - they take ever more suckers at the bottom paying in but eventually it runs out of suckers.

The public sector pensions are so big and unsustainable that either the rest of us pay more and more of our hard earned and hard stretched money to pay for them, which eventually will just snap, or public sector workers just get in the real world and stop acting so selfishly.

Why aren't you all calling to change over to a scheme which pays out what you pay in if your schemes are so self sustaining? That way you can't ever be accused of being parasites on everybody else.

Not all members of UNISON and I presume that there will be other members of other unions did not get a vote either.

I did not get a vote due to now working for the private sector after working in the public sector for over 20 years. I was transfered earlier this year.

So is the figure being put about of 25% only voting is 25% of the whole of the union or 25% of the balloted members. If its 25% of balloted members it could make a difference to the number who voted.

If the con-dems wish to make a changes to ballots about strike action i.e. 50% of members to vote before any action is taken then the same should apply to local government, national government elections and referendums. If this was in place at the last election then we would not have these idiots in government.

I totally agree with the strike action. I will be marching on the rally on wendnesday as its my day off to show my support as i am still in the local government pension scheme.

Good call wrote:
Loot a shop:Get sent to prison
Loot the economy:Get bailed out by the government and then reward yourself a huge bonus.

Get bailed out by a Labour government funded by the unions. Go figure.

It wasn't strictly a self rewarded bonus by the bankers either. In Fred Goodwin's case his huge pension had to be agreed by the Labour Government when we suddenly owned the RBS after the bailout.

Good work Labour, rewarding those matey matey bankers to the end.

How stupid are some people, we pay into our pensions it doesn't come from tax payers funding. We do NOT get it for nothing. Once the government get there own way then the private sectors will follow. Stop giving us grief as in the long run it could benefit everyone !!!!

The Tories once again trying to inflict the worker against the worker tactic .. its shameful. If the Tories want to sort this mess out then get back to the table and negotiate, you are not offering anything yet only promises .....well as we have seen these can be broken ....

strike or no strike diligaf.

Jack Herer wrote:

Good call wrote: Loot a shop:Get sent to prison Loot the economy:Get bailed out by the government and then reward yourself a huge bonus.

Get bailed out by a Labour government funded by the unions. Go figure. It wasn't strictly a self rewarded bonus by the bankers either. In Fred Goodwin's case his huge pension had to be agreed by the Labour Government when we suddenly owned the RBS after the bailout. Good work Labour, rewarding those matey matey bankers to the end.

If you look at my earlier comment, I said that it wasn't just the banking cartel members like fred goodwin to blame, it was also the fault of the politicians who let them loot the economy.I'm no fan of the last government whatsoever some of the things they did were bad Iraq war,ID cards etc etc.But I also don't like the current government

I'm taxpayer funded and i balloted against this b@llocks. Shop stewards (or union representives) are big mouthed bullies. And mine, I thought he'd be bigger.

Camerons broken Britain, left in the laybye on four piles of bricks.
All these pension cuts are propping up his banker buddie bonuses, but everyone has to do their bit to line the greedy banker pockets while they laugh at the revolting peasants.
Its going to hurt he says, but we will get through. Now like his hero they're on about taking away the free milk for kids.
Bet maggies so proud of her little darling

northwesterly wrote:
How stupid are some people, we pay into our pensions it doesn't come from tax payers funding. We do NOT get it for nothing. Once the government get there own way then the private sectors will follow. Stop giving us grief as in the long run it could benefit everyone !!!!

Course it comes from tax payer funding.Just like my salary. Northwesterly = Tosser

northwesterly wrote:
How stupid are some people, we pay into our pensions it doesn't come from tax payers funding. We do NOT get it for nothing. Once the government get there own way then the private sectors will follow. Stop giving us grief as in the long run it could benefit everyone !!!!

Of course it comes from Tax Payer funding - the 'employers' contribution towards a public sector workers pension comes from taxes, and this recent guardian article shows the percentages. http://www.guardian.
co.uk/politics/reali
ty-check-with-polly-
curtis/2011/nov/25/p
ublic-sector-pension
s-pensions Only 25% - 35% of contributions to most schemes is funded by the Employee; in the case of the Civil Service it can be as low as 6%. The Tax Payer pays the rest.

At these rates the current scheme is unsustainable.

I think it is time that we all, as a taxpaying nation, demanded answers from the last Labour government as to where all the money has gone.

They spent everything they inherited from the previous Tory government, doubled the council tax they were so against in opposition, sold our gold reserves at the worst possible time and they spent billions of our future income by borrowing at five times the income, so where the hell has it all gone?

Someone needs to ask and someone needs to answer!

Are people concerned that their kids' educator is on strike or that their kids' child-minder is on strike?

We will see on Wednesday whether or not we deserve our pension.

Most people on here complain so much about the public sector but they have used it all their lives. They didn't complain when they got an ambulance to rush them to an hospital when needed, They don't complain when their bins being emptied and they can only complain in the first place because as you guessed it, they was educated by the public sector.

My pension pot is in surplus and we have been told even if we didn't pay any more in to it for the next 20 years it would still be sustainable. My pension pot has 5 billion in assets alone. This is not about it being sustainable its about wanting 900 million for the sake of paying the bankers more in bonuses.

Divide and conquer, shouldn't the employees from the private sector be asking the government to make private companies offer a pension to them? This is a race to the bottom.

As for pitching Labour against the ConDems that's ridiculous. Both are the same, they treat the minions like buffoons while they enjoy the luxuries we could only dream about from a lottery win. Get real the only divide should be is us and them.

You also don't see them paying more into their pension, getting less and working till 68 do you?

Oh and Rumpole, your right about what Labour did but what did Thatcher do before them? Yes sell our oil and gas reserves and destroyed our manufacturing sector which today stands at just 11% of GDP.

Shame on you all for not supporting the working man.

Just curious as to why you chose to print a photograph of the Northern Ireland Public Services Alliance tonight and not one of the Lancashire Trade Unions?????????

Anyone who doesn't support the strikers is deluded & has learnt nothing from recent political history. East Lancs Tories! How ridiculous.

Jack Herer wrote:
It was Gordon Brown who sidled up to the bankers. It was Gordon Brown who decided they should have "light touch regulation" which allowed them to take such risks. It was Gordon Brown who showered them with knighthoods for taking the risks which led the world to the brink of collapse. It was Gordon Brown who decided that the tax payer would bail out the banks to stupid amounts which has now led to losses.

Good old Labour eh. The party of the people. As long as the people are public sector workers anyway. Then they make everyone else pay for stupidly high pensions and wages.

Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, is a fat cat just like the bankers. Massive pay, massive bonuses, massive pension.

The unions are a shocking, disgusting reflection on what they were created for. They were created by decent people to get fair conditions. Now they are just fat cat societies who look after themselves to the detriment of the masses, even showing outright contempt to the general public by putting them out and costing them money with needless strikes.

Shame on you.

Good comment.

(Baaaaa.....)

burner wrote:
Are people concerned that their kids' educator is on strike or that their kids' child-minder is on strike?

GOOD question!

Jack Herer wrote:

Noiticer wrote:
Some of the public service pension pots are in profit eg the NHS and others would have been if the money had been invested wisely instead of just being used as government income as the 3% additional contributions being demanded by the Con/Dem government will be. Those in the private sector should have decent pensions too but that is down to the capitalists who run their companies, not the fault of those in the public service without whom the country would fall apart.
As has been said above the government want to drive a wedge between different groups of workers - it's an old trick of the Tory Party and fellow travellers - the trick is to ignore this and for all workers to demand a fair and just society where all share in the wealth created. It won't happen until employees have fair represenation on boards of directors - after all it is the skill and hard work of employees which bring in the profits to companies along with the skill of their managers. Yes we should all be in it together but, alas, in the current way society is organised that is certainly not the case and until we truly are the country will continue to decline in many ways.

Any pension scheme which pays far more out than it gets in are like ponzi schemes - they take ever more suckers at the bottom paying in but eventually it runs out of suckers.

The public sector pensions are so big and unsustainable that either the rest of us pay more and more of our hard earned and hard stretched money to pay for them, which eventually will just snap, or public sector workers just get in the real world and stop acting so selfishly.

Why aren't you all calling to change over to a scheme which pays out what you pay in if your schemes are so self sustaining? That way you can't ever be accused of being parasites on everybody else.

I am a public sector worker who (having qualified young) started paying into my pension very recently when I started work at the age of 21. If this new scheme came into being tomorrow I will be expected to retire at 68 or possibly older as I'm sure the age will have increased further by that point. Each month I currently pay approx £200 into my pension and this amount would potentially increase with the government intentions to £300 each month and will increase further in line with my wage (coincidently the vast majority of public sector workers are not on the hyper inflated wages reported by the media - at the very most if I am very fortunate the most I would ever earn as a senior manager - which is highly unlikely as I like the day to day role of dealing with the public - is approx 42k a year). So by retirement I will have paid 47 years worth of pension contributions. Based on my current contribution I would have paid (47 x 12 = 564 x 300 = 169200). As I'm sure someone will be pedantic we'll subtract £900 for the 6 months contributions = 168300. Given that the life expectancy for males like myself is 77 years that gives me roughly 9 years of retirement or £18700 a year. Seeing as how my pension forecast predicted that I won't get a retirement lump sum and I will receive a pension payout of just under £17000 each year when I last checked it I'd say my pension is pretty much self sufficient... Yes I appreciate that I could live longer but I could also drop dead 6 months into retirement. I do feel for those of you who are in the private sector but to attack the public sector workers who quite often are in a similar position to yourselves is wrong - yes I'm well paid and will admit it but I worked hard for my degree and could very easily have moved overseas with better conditions the decent pension was really the only draw to my job other than the job itself - but what about the admin staff on 12 - 15k a year, the cleaners on less still... I'd struggle to meet my mortgage (and I live in a £75k house with my partner who works full time in a similar position to me) if we both have to up our pension contributions by £100 each month - we bought at the height of the market and so now are in megative equity and we've not been exempt from the rising costs of living either. So I dread to think how some of my lesser paid colleagues will cope. I do agree that the country's economy is in a mess but somehow feel we've been made a public enemy purely for trying to protect what we signed up for...

Jack Herer wrote:

Noiticer wrote:
Some of the public service pension pots are in profit eg the NHS and others would have been if the money had been invested wisely instead of just being used as government income as the 3% additional contributions being demanded by the Con/Dem government will be. Those in the private sector should have decent pensions too but that is down to the capitalists who run their companies, not the fault of those in the public service without whom the country would fall apart.
As has been said above the government want to drive a wedge between different groups of workers - it's an old trick of the Tory Party and fellow travellers - the trick is to ignore this and for all workers to demand a fair and just society where all share in the wealth created. It won't happen until employees have fair represenation on boards of directors - after all it is the skill and hard work of employees which bring in the profits to companies along with the skill of their managers. Yes we should all be in it together but, alas, in the current way society is organised that is certainly not the case and until we truly are the country will continue to decline in many ways.

Any pension scheme which pays far more out than it gets in are like ponzi schemes - they take ever more suckers at the bottom paying in but eventually it runs out of suckers.

The public sector pensions are so big and unsustainable that either the rest of us pay more and more of our hard earned and hard stretched money to pay for them, which eventually will just snap, or public sector workers just get in the real world and stop acting so selfishly.

Why aren't you all calling to change over to a scheme which pays out what you pay in if your schemes are so self sustaining? That way you can't ever be accused of being parasites on everybody else.

I am a public sector worker who (having qualified young) started paying into my pension very recently when I started work at the age of 21. If this new scheme came into being tomorrow I will be expected to retire at 68 or possibly older as I'm sure the age will have increased further by that point. Each month I currently pay approx £200 into my pension and this amount would potentially increase with the government intentions to £300 each month and will increase further in line with my wage (coincidently the vast majority of public sector workers are not on the hyper inflated wages reported by the media - at the very most if I am very fortunate the most I would ever earn as a senior manager - which is highly unlikely as I like the day to day role of dealing with the public - is approx 42k a year). So by retirement I will have paid 47 years worth of pension contributions. Based on my current contribution I would have paid (47 x 12 = 564 x 300 = 169200). As I'm sure someone will be pedantic we'll subtract £900 for the 6 months contributions = 168300. Given that the life expectancy for males like myself is 77 years that gives me roughly 9 years of retirement or £18700 a year. Seeing as how my pension forecast predicted that I won't get a retirement lump sum and I will receive a pension payout of just under £17000 each year when I last checked it I'd say my pension is pretty much self sufficient... Yes I appreciate that I could live longer but I could also drop dead 6 months into retirement. I do feel for those of you who are in the private sector but to attack the public sector workers who quite often are in a similar position to yourselves is wrong - yes I'm well paid and will admit it but I worked hard for my degree and could very easily have moved overseas with better conditions the decent pension was really the only draw to my job other than the job itself - but what about the admin staff on 12 - 15k a year, the cleaners on less still... I'd struggle to meet my mortgage (and I live in a £75k house with my partner who works full time in a similar position to me) if we both have to up our pension contributions by £100 each month - we bought at the height of the market and so now are in megative equity and we've not been exempt from the rising costs of living either. So I dread to think how some of my lesser paid colleagues will cope. I do agree that the country's economy is in a mess but somehow feel we've been made a public enemy purely for trying to protect what we signed up for...

Is politics no other that a very well paid career?

You can’t help but watch in total dismay as politicians do the kung foo shuffle and glare sullenly at one another with nothing but their own futures in mind. Political parties are nothing but clubs that rely on the common folk to pay their wages. Those wages are very exceptional for the privilege of being seen to be important and as a reward have given themselves the best retirement scheme ever to look forward to. Nothing but baloney!

But as always it’s the sheep who will suffer the most being in the majority and the rich even though in the minority will win eventually simply because they have the wealth to do so. Not being able to name one politician from any one party who is not wealthy does prove a point does it not. It’s just a career game within a corrupt society and nothing else. All we can hope for is that they do some good on the way.

That’s politics!

The strike?
A waste of time but will make some feel better after taking part!

Perhaps those who are so opinionated should actually make themselves aware of the facts. Public sector - a pay freeze again; being asked to contribute more into a pension scheme that is cash rich - already paid into for years by those in the public sector who work damned hard to serve the 'public'; and for what? so the Government can bleed it dry, and make those that are willing to turn a hand to a hard days work to cover the costs of those who aren't willing to get off their backsides and work - or to cover the costs of the Bankers - all of whom dont mind bleeding the country dry, but object when the Public Sector workers have been pushed to the limit.

Perhaps those who are so opinionated should actually make themselves aware of the facts. Public sector - a pay freeze again; being asked to contribute more into a pension scheme that is cash rich - already paid into for years by those in the public sector who work damned hard to serve the 'public'; and for what? so the Government can bleed it dry, and make those that are willing to turn a hand to a hard days work to cover the costs of those who aren't willing to work - or to cover the costs of the Bankers - all of whom dont mind bleeding the country dry, but object when the Public Sector workers have been pushed to the limit.

Jack Herer wrote:

Noiticer wrote: Some of the public service pension pots are in profit eg the NHS and others would have been if the money had been invested wisely instead of just being used as government income as the 3% additional contributions being demanded by the Con/Dem government will be. Those in the private sector should have decent pensions too but that is down to the capitalists who run their companies, not the fault of those in the public service without whom the country would fall apart. As has been said above the government want to drive a wedge between different groups of workers - it's an old trick of the Tory Party and fellow travellers - the trick is to ignore this and for all workers to demand a fair and just society where all share in the wealth created. It won't happen until employees have fair represenation on boards of directors - after all it is the skill and hard work of employees which bring in the profits to companies along with the skill of their managers. Yes we should all be in it together but, alas, in the current way society is organised that is certainly not the case and until we truly are the country will continue to decline in many ways.

Any pension scheme which pays far more out than it gets in are like ponzi schemes - they take ever more suckers at the bottom paying in but eventually it runs out of suckers. The public sector pensions are so big and unsustainable that either the rest of us pay more and more of our hard earned and hard stretched money to pay for them, which eventually will just snap, or public sector workers just get in the real world and stop acting so selfishly. Why aren't you all calling to change over to a scheme which pays out what you pay in if your schemes are so self sustaining? That way you can't ever be accused of being parasites on everybody else.

Doesn't happen very often, but I actually agree with Noiticer!!
Jack Herver: do you know where the extra 3% they want us to pay in pension contributions is going? Not into our pension pots. INTO THE TREASURY COFFERS.
I've said it before and Noticier says it above: we used to have solvent pension funds until the government told the councils etc who employ us that they could spend our pension pots.
Around £200 of my monthly wage goes into my pension pot and I earn less than £20k per annum.
Someone else talks about the perks that the public sector enjoy: please tell me what these perks are because I apper to have missed something. I don't get anything subsidised, parking costs a fortune if I'm lucky enough to be allocated a permit and I pay the same bills and charges as everyone else.
If I'm lucky enough to reach the retirement age I can look forward to a massive drop in my standard of living.
Also, please bear in mind that our pension scheme was altered not many years ago and we were told that this would make it sustainable and would need no further adjustment.
Make no mistake; these changes have nothing to do with making the public sector pension scheme more cost effective - that has already been done. They are just about putting more money in the treasury's coffers.

i say anybody that strikes should lose there job because they obviously dont want it....unions are just trouble makers always have been.

Look - this is the bottom line.

When Labour were in power they increased public sector pay until it was higher than the private sector. They also kept pensions which those in the private sector can only dream of.

These changes are entirely about making public sector pensions sustainable. There is a huge black hole in financing these pensions which is just going to get worse and worse.

If the public pension pot is rosy and healthy like some posters claim, why isn't this just being detached from the poor sucker tax payers having to unfairly pay for it? If the money is there, brilliant, stop making poor suckers who can't afford it pay then.

Either you get out what you pay in yourselves, or you make someone else pay. Currently lots of other people pay lots - that's the problem. If you pay in enough already brilliant, let's detach it from the other poor suckers paying in then. Why would you not want to do that if you supposedly pay enough in already?

The people who told you it was sustainable turned out to be lying on a whole range of other issues too.

Public sector workers need to stop acting so selfishly and expecting poor suckers to just constantly pay for their pensions. Why should they? Most people have no pension themselves but are expected to pay for gold plated public sector pensions.

How supremely selfish of public sector workers. You can justify to yourself all you want but the truth is you are no different to the bankers - greedy selfish pigs who just expect everyone else to pay.

Don't kid yourselves that it is any different.

Greedy selfish pigs - me, me, me.

Poppy1990 wrote:
Perhaps those who are so opinionated should actually make themselves aware of the facts. Public sector - a pay freeze again; being asked to contribute more into a pension scheme that is cash rich - already paid into for years by those in the public sector who work damned hard to serve the 'public'; and for what? so the Government can bleed it dry, and make those that are willing to turn a hand to a hard days work to cover the costs of those who aren't willing to get off their backsides and work - or to cover the costs of the Bankers - all of whom dont mind bleeding the country dry, but object when the Public Sector workers have been pushed to the limit.

If the public sector pension pots are cash rich, then why not detach them from tax payer responsibility or meddling?

Why aren't public sector workers screaming for this to happen?

Jack Herer wrote:

gudari wrote:

coates warder wrote:
nowt but greed...some people dont even have a pension.if a teacher or doctor cant fund their own retirement on the tens of thousands a year its time to give up.moan moan moan.try living in the real world for once.cant these people see we as a country are broke.but no greed comes before anything else.just 1 day off will cost the country millions people not able to go to work because of children not able to go to school.this will cost me £75 a day.you will get no sympathy from me or family.the part i can'not understand is only 27% voted for strike action i thought you needed a majority.

You sound like a tory politician mate. This country is one of the 5 richest in the world! There's money for a civil list, wars that don't interest anyone and a London Olympics that only interests a few but none for important things like social services, NHS etc. What the government wants is for people to believe that the country is broke and keep more for themselves. this country has loads of money; If you want to ensure the government spends it wisely, you need to start asking a dofferent set of questions instead of bleating about selfish motives!

Keep more for themselves? Ever heard of Greece? Ireland? Portugal? Spain? Italy?

Are their politicians keeping more for themselves there? Have those countries got loads of money too?

This country doesn't have loads of money. It is currently BORROWING lots of money to pay for pensions already. Why would a country with loads of money be borrowing any at a time when it causing countries to go under?

We do not want to borrow any more. We are borrowing far too much, and have far too much debt. We need to make the books balance. A massive cost to everyone is public sector pensions. How is that fair on everyone?

The last labour government borrowed stupid amounts to pay for pointless, drawn out, unwinnable and eye wateringly expensive wars. They also were the ones bidding for the London olympics. All on borrowed money.

Ever increasing debt was the labours economic policy. It didn't work - it was as reckless as the bankers. Possibly more so. We need to make the books balance now. We cannot afford those totally unsustainable pensions. It's bizarrely selfish of public sector workers to just expect everyone else to pay for something they can never hope to afford themselves.

We borrowed billions to hand it over to dodgy banks and fight questionable wars in far off places (both of which the Government has continued to do despite the pleas of being broke).

The politicians might rarely be keeping funds for personal ends, but the common thread across the UK, Greece, Portugal, et al is that their mates in the financial sector (who created the mess) get of relatively lightly at expense of everyone else.

If never ceases to amaze me how a bunch of multi-millionaires who either inherited all their money or made it in the dodgy world of financial derivatives can manage to portray teachers, nurses and street-cleaners as a bunch of parasites.

I appreciate private-sector pensions are generally in a mess (although curiously not for directors and CEOs - look at the huge pensions for Fred Goodwin and Tony Hayward), and would fully support any moves prevent companies using their staff's pension funds to enhance the share payouts.

Chris P Bacon wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:
It was Gordon Brown who sidled up to the bankers. It was Gordon Brown who decided they should have "light touch regulation" which allowed them to take such risks. It was Gordon Brown who showered them with knighthoods for taking the risks which led the world to the brink of collapse. It was Gordon Brown who decided that the tax payer would bail out the banks to stupid amounts which has now led to losses.

Good old Labour eh. The party of the people. As long as the people are public sector workers anyway. Then they make everyone else pay for stupidly high pensions and wages.

Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary, is a fat cat just like the bankers. Massive pay, massive bonuses, massive pension.

The unions are a shocking, disgusting reflection on what they were created for. They were created by decent people to get fair conditions. Now they are just fat cat societies who look after themselves to the detriment of the masses, even showing outright contempt to the general public by putting them out and costing them money with needless strikes.

Shame on you.

Anyone with more than the bare minimum amount of brain cells distributed to you will see your nonsense and you can almost hear eyes rolling in heads. How dim can ANYone get to swallow the guff spewed forth by the current criminals in charge about the last lot?

There's sheep on Pendle Hill with more nous than displayed here by you. Are you a Tory councillor using a nom-de-plume?

Whilst there is little doubt the Tories would have done much the same as Gordon Brown, Jack Herer's point is a valid one.

The Unions were remarkably silent about the the many wrongs of the Blair/Brown governments.

Some people say that Labour is too influenced the Unions, I'd argue in fact that the Unions are too influenced by Labour, and if they untied themselves they'd be much more effective.

Once again the public sector sticks it's head in the sand and pretends that the recession doesn't affect it.

Why should the taxpayer pay for their pensions as well as paying for their own? Greedy overpaid halfwits. If you are wondering which school to send your children to, wait to see which ones don't go out on strike and care about teaching rather than striking

Ignorance must surely be bliss. Just finished my marking after starting work before 8 this morning. You poor souls having to look after your children for the day. Or even worse having to pay for them to be looked after. If I put my daughter in holiday club it is £20 a day. Imagine if I charged 20 x 34 for looking after a class for the day. £680 a day. Wow. We pay tax too.

To all of you who think that public sector workers do not work hard you live in "cuckoo land". As a primary teacher my daughter worked 80 hours per week. She was in school for 8am and left at 6pm. It was a struggle to find time to eat lunch as she had so much preparation to do in the shape of planning and preparing and paying for all her resources. She came home and worked for another 4 hours every night preparing for the following day and marking. She had one evening off per week and that was Friday. She then worked most of the weekend also. During the holidays she had to go in to prepare the classroom by putting up displays, again mostly paid for by herself, moving furniture and also had more planning to do.
Before teaching she worked in the Private Sector and went in to work at 9am and finished at 5pm and then the rest was her own time.
So before you comment about teachers get your facts straight. She has now left teaching as a lot of people do as it is far easier in the private sector!!

The refuse collectors in ribble valley are having to work on the proposed strike day due to the fact they cannnot afford to strike because of the very low salary paid in the ribble valley.

ghost of sceptic wrote:
The refuse collectors in ribble valley are having to work on the proposed strike day due to the fact they cannnot afford to strike because of the very low salary paid in the ribble valley.

That is very sad in the affluent Ribble Valley ,you would think staff there would be some of the better paid in the country bearing in mind the cost of living in the Ribble Valley .

The Curator wrote:

ghost of sceptic wrote: The refuse collectors in ribble valley are having to work on the proposed strike day due to the fact they cannnot afford to strike because of the very low salary paid in the ribble valley.

That is very sad in the affluent Ribble Valley ,you would think staff there would be some of the better paid in the country bearing in mind the cost of living in the Ribble Valley .

Yes curator it i am afraid it is a very sad fact! but that is the price the low paid workers at ribble valley council have to pay to keep council tax frozen or rises kept very low, a very bitter pill to swallow.

For those who assume all public sector workers are wrong to take industrial action you need to be aware that their contract for employment from Day One should be the same up until their last day of employment unless by mutual agreement.
If a change to contract is required by the government it should only apply to new employees, as they apply for certain terms which are applicable to timescale.

I agree macattack63 with your statement.

I agree macattack63 with your statement.

Well said macattack. I agree entirely with what you say. Makes sense doesn't it.
There have been some infuriating comments on this item by people, who quite frankly are talking out of their backsides & haven't a clue what they're bleating about. Yes, i'm on strike today because i'm sick of being shafted by my employers the government. As for the comments about being 'well paid' haha i wouldn't consider £14k before tax a well paid job would you, in fact its probably a lot less than some peoples benefits if you include help with housing/council tax etc so put a sock in it all you ignorant, know it alls who probably wouldn't know a days work if it slapped you in the face!!!!!
I've earned every penny of my pension so far & will continue to do so, i just have to pay more in........ for longer........ and get less, ludicrous!!!!!

i.s. wrote:
Well said macattack. I agree entirely with what you say. Makes sense doesn't it.
There have been some infuriating comments on this item by people, who quite frankly are talking out of their backsides & haven't a clue what they're bleating about. Yes, i'm on strike today because i'm sick of being shafted by my employers the government. As for the comments about being 'well paid' haha i wouldn't consider £14k before tax a well paid job would you, in fact its probably a lot less than some peoples benefits if you include help with housing/council tax etc so put a sock in it all you ignorant, know it alls who probably wouldn't know a days work if it slapped you in the face!!!!!
I've earned every penny of my pension so far & will continue to do so, i just have to pay more in........ for longer........ and get less, ludicrous!!!!!

Who wouldn't "think" they've earned every penny of their pension?

Get in the real world. That's what public sector workers need to do.

In Greece hairdressers can retire at 50, with a pension paid by the government, because they apparently do a dangerous job. I'm guessing hairdressers in Greece think they've earned every penny of their pension too.

People need to get in the real world. Lots of people work incredibly hard, both in the private and public sector. However there simply isn't enough money to pay these pensions with a never ending pot. Why should those low paid hard working people in the private sector pay for someone else's pension? It's obscenely selfish.

Yes of course you "deserve" every penny though. Just like the Greek hairdressers deserve every penny.

It's funny isn't it though, everyone who claims it is a deserved pension has a complete interest in keeping them. I wouldn't expect them to say anything else though, when they are selfishly clinging to something completely unsustainable that other poor suckers have to pay.

Needless to say a great deal of ill-informed venom is being directed at public sector workers mainly through jealousy.
I am a teacher, on strike for the first time in 40 years. When I accepted my first post the remuneration included a salary and a pension to which I had to contribute a fixed percentage of my salary. That was the deal. I am still doing the same job, in the classroom, paying the same fixed rate on my (now higher) salary.
Once my daughter grew up I consulted (for the first time) a financial adviser to make some tentative plans for retirement. He told me that, if I had contracted to pay my pension contributions into a scheme and guaranteed not to touch it for 40 years I would be getting a pension 3 times greater than the one I would get now.
The governments have simply put our contributions into the general finances and the latest lot are seeking to renege on their side of the bargain. By all means change the system for new entrants - thet will then be able to decide whether the 'package' they are being offered is attractive or not.
As for students being disadvantaged - get real; we will still have to catch up the work as specified by the syllabus prior to exams in January or May - often in our own lunchtimes, non-contact periods etc. Do you really think we'd let our students.
And one last thought: no doubt those of you who haven't got a clue were model pupils and have brought up angelic children so would not contribute to sending a 68 year old teacher to an even earlier grave (yipee - no pension to pay!)

Correction, penultimate sentence:
"Do you really think we'd let our students down after having invested so much of ourselves in their success" (and No, (pre-empting some cerebrally-challenge
d contributor replying) we don't get paid more if our students do well)

No where near as bad effect as was first thought perhaps, many of the public sector departments are well over staffed and need pruning to help pay for these already generous pensions

Well let's get everyone at each other's throats, and while we're all "infighting" the Government sit back and rub their hands, well thats whats supposed to happen !!!!!

Fact is, this situation has been thought out long ago, and it is now bearing fruitition.

I have no objection to anyone getting a "decent" Pension, but the Private Sector have had their Pensions wiped out over the last 20 years by decisions that they were not in control of, and a close friend who worked all his life, who was 6 months short of retiring, had his Pension wiped out because the Firm went bust taking the Pension Fund with it, he was left with a State Pension and no one gave a rats sarse about him, and this has happened to Millions of people yet, nothing was done !!!

A total Country-wide strike could have bought some time for things to change back then, but nothing, and the Government did nothing, which was part of the plan "I'm alright Jack, screw you".

And now, the Country, nay the Western World is suddenly, in the Year 2011, is in Debt up to its Ears !!!! And we, the "working man" are all going to have to pay for it !!!!!!

I will support anyone with a just cause, but where I draw the line is as follows- Council Employee's, and I am talking Pendle Council, with a Chief Exec on a Salary of £135k a year for a 4 day week, with a massive Pension to follow, Beggars Belief !!!!, and from sources within the Council, it isn't even in "Public Sector Scheme" and they have gone on strike !!!!!! The Council Pension Fund is a type of the old Superannuation Scheme, with Employee's Contributing 7.5% and the Council Contributing a MASSIVE 22.5 %, NOW THAT IS TAKING THE %*&%$£, 22.5%, and the Council keeps paying that amount knowing that it can't afford it, but Jack-the-lad who has just retired or coming up for retirement will be ok !!!!!

And also the fact that, some I know personally retired at 52 on a FULL Pension, never having done a hard days graft in their life !!!! Now that does get people's backs up, and its stories like that, that the Government uses to get people at each others throats !!!!

The majority, "the sheep" who haven't seen the light, are just pawns in a game that the Government use them to carry their message !!!!

Those who have seen the game, and who play the Government at the own, are usually branded "right wing activists", so to get everyone against them, even though the truth is there for ALL TO SEE, the majority choose NOT TO SEE IT !!!!

And please spare a thought for those Brave enough to stand and fight, so that we can have our feedom, who won't have the choice of whether they receive "their" Pension, but they will Always be Remembered and Never Forgotten !!!!

Do your jobs you lazy bastards, i enjoy college but you kept me from it.