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2:56pm Monday 28th November 2011 in News
A DARWEN businessman and main sponsor of Blackburn Rovers has had a meeting with senior club officials.
Wayne Wild, group director of Darwen-based WEC Group, was critical of the club’s ‘lack of leadership’ in an exclusive interview with the Lancashire Telegraph last week.
Following his comments about the Venky’s, Mr Wild – a supporter of more than 30 years – has now met with Rovers deputy chief executive Paul Hunt to raise his concerns.
He said WEC felt they were not being valued as clients and feared negative publicity around the club was having a direct impact on his business.
WEC, an engineering and fabrication company, is the main sponsor of the Darwen End stand and also has corporate hospitality at Ewood Park.
He said via his Twitter account: “Had a good constructive meeting with Paul Hunt.
"He has promised to discuss with the owners the issues. I await confirmation.”
Comments(37)
MxMave
says...
3:13pm Mon 28 Nov 11
mark anthony
says...
3:29pm Mon 28 Nov 11
Local Degenerate
says...
3:33pm Mon 28 Nov 11
mark anthony wrote:yeah
DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE sorry Wayne no disrespect but to hold a meeting with the monkey instead of the organ grinder to me dosnt make buisness sense
Gary The Snail
says...
3:51pm Mon 28 Nov 11
Local Degenerate wrote:Paul and Barry Chuckle
mark anthony wrote: DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE sorry Wayne no disrespect but to hold a meeting with the monkey instead of the organ grinder to me dosnt make buisness senseyeah Who is he deputising for?.....
Morst The 88th Min Heartbreaker of Dingles!
says...
3:53pm Mon 28 Nov 11
philmoulden
says...
3:59pm Mon 28 Nov 11
davemal
says...
4:00pm Mon 28 Nov 11
philmoulden
says...
4:03pm Mon 28 Nov 11
happycyclist
says...
4:17pm Mon 28 Nov 11
hawaii 5-0
says...
4:19pm Mon 28 Nov 11
bring back the good old days
says...
4:41pm Mon 28 Nov 11
did you smash it?
says...
4:50pm Mon 28 Nov 11
owd nick
says...
4:51pm Mon 28 Nov 11
J.C - Rishton
says...
4:51pm Mon 28 Nov 11
asianlad123
says...
5:05pm Mon 28 Nov 11
owd nick
says...
6:24pm Mon 28 Nov 11
J.C - Rishton wrote:JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?.
I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular.
.
HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them.
.
I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season.
.
Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper).
.
Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here.
.
My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
J.C - Rishton
says...
6:35pm Mon 28 Nov 11
owd nick wrote:Trouble is, it isnt "our club" anymore, is it ??
J.C - Rishton wrote:JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?.
I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular.
.
HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them.
.
I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season.
.
Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper).
.
Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here.
.
My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
.
In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away?
.
I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them.
.
Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
owd nick
says...
6:48pm Mon 28 Nov 11
J.C - Rishton wrote:JC, apologies, I never meant to infer you were a lesser fan at all.
owd nick wrote:Trouble is, it isnt "our club" anymore, is it ??
J.C - Rishton wrote:JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?.
I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular.
.
HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them.
.
I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season.
.
Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper).
.
Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here.
.
My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
.
In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away?
.
I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them.
.
Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
.
I am saying that I WILL go to games next season but NOT the home games - I will make an effort to support my club in AWAY matches only and therefore will not line these disgusting CROOKS with any of my money - if you don't agree with me then fine - you give these scummers your money.
.
I don't think this makes me any "less of a fan" - I will do this unless things change at Ewood whether we get relegated or stay up (and I expect 1000's of historically loyal season ticket holders to do the same).
happycyclist
says...
7:10pm Mon 28 Nov 11
Walsh
says...
7:38pm Mon 28 Nov 11
Rover Pete
says...
8:21pm Mon 28 Nov 11
owd nick
says...
10:19pm Mon 28 Nov 11
Walsh wrote:No, football is much more important, well Rovers are anyway.
Does anybody else think it is perverse that so much time, effort and money has been spent debating this issue when we as a nation are an hairs breadth away from civil unrest, financial meltdown, and war.
fitz808
says...
8:20am Tue 29 Nov 11
owd nick wrote:i really don't see it being that kind of apocalyptic scenario at all. there is no evidence to suggest it would be the case.
Walsh wrote:No, football is much more important, well Rovers are anyway.
Does anybody else think it is perverse that so much time, effort and money has been spent debating this issue when we as a nation are an hairs breadth away from civil unrest, financial meltdown, and war.
.
The financial situation will eventually sort itself out, Rovers will cease to exist if they are relegated because Venky's have (allegedly) already taken the parachute money and run.
.
And if that is the case forget Portsmouth, Leeds, Charlton, this is a whole new ball game.
whittleblue
says...
9:20am Tue 29 Nov 11
OnePostThenTheOther
says...
9:23am Tue 29 Nov 11
bring back the good old days wrote:Speaking to Paul Hunt isn't the achievement you make it out to be. There is no "dialogue" here. Our "Deputy Chairman" is just a message boy for the owners in abentia. The Venkys are far far too busy to deal with such a trifling issue.
Come on guys, you have been screaming for some dialogue/any dialogue, so don't be too cynical. He has got Paul Hunt to meet him and given he is the highest you can get to (excluding the 'great one') before getting to Venkys at least its a move in the right direction and should be applauded. It may well be that this will not lead to anything, but that is not Waynes fault.
What is important is Hunt has been given a task, so he has to deliver in some shape or form as it is public and media knowledge.
Keep pressing Wayne.
Hovis1945
says...
9:31am Tue 29 Nov 11
Rover Pete wrote:Hear, hear - cracking idea. If Venky's had any nous they would jump at the idea.
What about Wayne Wild to join the Board of the club as the fans representative?
A breath of fresh local air and honesty amongst all the yes men.
alfa111
says...
9:31am Tue 29 Nov 11
J.C - Rishton wrote:So venkys wont be at the games,nothings changed there then
I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular. . HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them. . I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season. . Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper). . Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here. . My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
pepperpot2296
says...
9:42am Tue 29 Nov 11
carlmc
says...
9:52am Tue 29 Nov 11
fitz808 wrote:I think their is a lot of evidence to suggest that it IS an apocalyptic scenario. What we all must understand is that the owners are still with the manager despite results and have actually given him a new contract. The only conclusion I can come to with that is they don't mind about football results being bad, something else determines how good they judge the manager to be.
owd nick wrote:i really don't see it being that kind of apocalyptic scenario at all. there is no evidence to suggest it would be the case. granted, venky's seem to be doing a lot more harm than good at the moment, but there is no reason to assume the outcomes are anywhere near definite yet. i completely agree that the solution should not include boycotts of home games and requests to local investors to leave until venky's sell. intelligent and non-aggressive protests are completely understandable in the current circumstances. i would urge it not to be before or during games, but other than that i have no desire to stand in anyone's way. it's the the often disgusting comments on message boards, which are ill-informed and even less well thought out that depress me. we are performing pooly on the pitch from a defensive point of view, and we are performing poorly off the pitch from an infrastructure point of view. these are not insolvable peoblems, though. even by the current owners and management team. there is no point giving ultimatums and declaring all is lost. i much prefer what mr wild is doing - taking constructive action and attempting to open dialogue.Walsh wrote: Does anybody else think it is perverse that so much time, effort and money has been spent debating this issue when we as a nation are an hairs breadth away from civil unrest, financial meltdown, and war.No, football is much more important, well Rovers are anyway. . The financial situation will eventually sort itself out, Rovers will cease to exist if they are relegated because Venky's have (allegedly) already taken the parachute money and run. . And if that is the case forget Portsmouth, Leeds, Charlton, this is a whole new ball game.
Shear_Brilliance
says...
10:05am Tue 29 Nov 11
OnePostThenTheOther
says...
10:23am Tue 29 Nov 11
roverinmanchstr
says...
10:59am Tue 29 Nov 11
owd nick wrote:owd nick...... Cannot understand your reasoning..Events are completely different from your reference to Allardyce(who kept Rovers in the Premier League). ....Relegation avoided last game of Last Season(and would Venky's have rallied and become so concerned that Rovers had been relegated) I think not...We are bottom this season and are in a relegation battle... Total bo!!ocks regarding money for Transfers from Venky's and their treatment of established senior staff........I cannot relate to your comment..... Surely real fans do need to get a message across whatever it takes
J.C - Rishton wrote: I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular. . HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them. . I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season. . Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper). . Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here. . My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?. . In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away? . I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them. . Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
owd nick
says...
12:43pm Tue 29 Nov 11
roverinmanchstr wrote:Rovers had no money under the Walkers. Williams did an absolutely brilliant job keeping us in the PL on a shoestring budget.
owd nick wrote:owd nick...... Cannot understand your reasoning..Events are completely different from your reference to Allardyce(who kept Rovers in the Premier League). ....Relegation avoided last game of Last Season(and would Venky's have rallied and become so concerned that Rovers had been relegated) I think not...We are bottom this season and are in a relegation battle... Total bo!!ocks regarding money for Transfers from Venky's and their treatment of established senior staff........I cannot relate to your comment..... Surely real fans do need to get a message across whatever it takes
J.C - Rishton wrote: I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular. . HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them. . I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season. . Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper). . Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here. . My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?. . In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away? . I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them. . Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
roverinmanchstr
says...
1:26pm Tue 29 Nov 11
owd nick wrote:Well at least we agree on something.....I think that the Walker Trust(Non-Trust) acted appallingly in their readiness to 'rid' themselves of of the club......Venky's have been and are a total disgrace.... Still cannot agree with your comment Re Allerdyce.....When Man City were managed by different managers in the Prem League(before the present 'money bags 'situation) and ,even under the guidance of Stuart Pierce their football was much like 'Allardyces 'much to the annoyance of many City fans..However,You cannot play top 6 type football without real quality/standard of player (ref: City now/Blackpool,attemp
roverinmanchstr wrote:Rovers had no money under the Walkers. Williams did an absolutely brilliant job keeping us in the PL on a shoestring budget. . Granted Alardyce kept us up, but at what cost? to me and many others his tactics were obscene and not what I wanted to see my club playing whatever the league we were in. . Added to that Alardyce did not want to manager Rovers, his oft quoted opinion to anyone who would listen was he was too good for us. . Venky's came in and promised the moon, but we don't know what demands Alardyce placed on Venky's or for that matter vice versa, whatever happened he was sacked, good riddance in my opinion, and I am actually entitled to an opinion. . Kean, for whatever reason took over but the promised finance and players simply did not materialise, in the meantime our experienced players continued to pick up injuries, Kean had no choice to bring in youngsters who have generally played quite well. . We lack PL experience on and off the field, against Stoke I think we had 5 young players on the park and 2 or 3 on the bench, this against a very experienced PL side, there was only ever going to be one result. . I know I am likely to attract a storm of abuse but Kean really doesn't stand a chance in hell under circumstances like that. . It isn't the fans fault, it isn't the players fault, Keans teams try their damnedests to play football and win, but we don't have a Colin Hendry, we don't have a Robbie Savage, we don't have an Alan Shearer. . The fault is Venky's, no-one else's, they need to deliver their promises or explain why they cannot, that is all I am asking.owd nick wrote:owd nick...... Cannot understand your reasoning..Events are completely different from your reference to Allardyce(who kept Rovers in the Premier League). ....Relegation avoided last game of Last Season(and would Venky's have rallied and become so concerned that Rovers had been relegated) I think not...We are bottom this season and are in a relegation battle... Total bo!!ocks regarding money for Transfers from Venky's and their treatment of established senior staff........I cannot relate to your comment..... Surely real fans do need to get a message across whatever it takesJ.C - Rishton wrote: I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular. . HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them. . I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season. . Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper). . Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here. . My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?. . In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away? . I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them. . Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
owd nick
says...
3:53pm Tue 29 Nov 11
roverinmanchstr wrote:The 10 million is probably in Rupees.
owd nick wrote:Well at least we agree on something.....I think that the Walker Trust(Non-Trust) acted appallingly in their readiness to 'rid' themselves of of the club......Venky's have been and are a total disgrace.... Still cannot agree with your comment Re Allerdyce.....When Man City were managed by different managers in the Prem League(before the present 'money bags 'situation) and ,even under the guidance of Stuart Pierce their football was much like 'Allardyces 'much to the annoyance of many City fans..However,You cannot play top 6 type football without real quality/standard of player (ref: City now/Blackpool,attemp
roverinmanchstr wrote:Rovers had no money under the Walkers. Williams did an absolutely brilliant job keeping us in the PL on a shoestring budget. . Granted Alardyce kept us up, but at what cost? to me and many others his tactics were obscene and not what I wanted to see my club playing whatever the league we were in. . Added to that Alardyce did not want to manager Rovers, his oft quoted opinion to anyone who would listen was he was too good for us. . Venky's came in and promised the moon, but we don't know what demands Alardyce placed on Venky's or for that matter vice versa, whatever happened he was sacked, good riddance in my opinion, and I am actually entitled to an opinion. . Kean, for whatever reason took over but the promised finance and players simply did not materialise, in the meantime our experienced players continued to pick up injuries, Kean had no choice to bring in youngsters who have generally played quite well. . We lack PL experience on and off the field, against Stoke I think we had 5 young players on the park and 2 or 3 on the bench, this against a very experienced PL side, there was only ever going to be one result. . I know I am likely to attract a storm of abuse but Kean really doesn't stand a chance in hell under circumstances like that. . It isn't the fans fault, it isn't the players fault, Keans teams try their damnedests to play football and win, but we don't have a Colin Hendry, we don't have a Robbie Savage, we don't have an Alan Shearer. . The fault is Venky's, no-one else's, they need to deliver their promises or explain why they cannot, that is all I am asking.owd nick wrote:owd nick...... Cannot understand your reasoning..Events are completely different from your reference to Allardyce(who kept Rovers in the Premier League). ....Relegation avoided last game of Last Season(and would Venky's have rallied and become so concerned that Rovers had been relegated) I think not...We are bottom this season and are in a relegation battle... Total bo!!ocks regarding money for Transfers from Venky's and their treatment of established senior staff........I cannot relate to your comment..... Surely real fans do need to get a message across whatever it takesJ.C - Rishton wrote: I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular. . HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them. . I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season. . Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper). . Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here. . My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?. . In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away? . I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them. . Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
ting to play attactive football last season 'that we all liked' ).
Kean needs nearly 3 times the so called £10m that Venky's are supposedly making available to him in the January Window(which I don't believe).....If tactics don't change then it will be defeat after defeat no matter how atractive you play the game
gleechy
says...
10:27pm Tue 29 Nov 11
owd nick wrote:What do real fans eat for breakfast?
J.C - Rishton wrote:JC, I understand what you are saying but could you do that?.
I too have spoken to Paul Hunt in recent weeks and he seems a decent, intelegent bloke with his feet on the ground and knowledgeable about football matters in general and Rovers current problems in particular.
.
HOWEVER, its not him that makes the decisions, its Venkys and I have no faith that they will even listen to the concerns of Paul Hunt, let alone act upon them.
.
I feel the only way forward (if change dosent happen) is for ALL season ticket holders ( I have 30 straight seasons worth) not to renew and ALL sponsers to cut their sponsership at the end of the season.
.
Next season I think Rovers fans should only go to AWAY fixtures (and at least in the Chumpionship there are alot of northern teams and away ticket are cheaper).
.
Venkys said they wouldnt come and watch games live again until the atmosphere is improved - I would urge ALL Rovers fans to give them stick every time they have the cheek to show their disgusting faces round here.
.
My message (and hopefully the message of the majority of our fans) is SELL UP & SHIP OUT because you will NEVER be welcome in Blackburn EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!
.
In the cold light of day and all anger aside could you throw 30 years of loyal support away?
.
I was going to do that when Alardyce became manager, but I stuck it out watching the worst football my club had ever played in the 39 years I have been supporting them.
.
Real fans don't desert their club whatever happens to it, we have been relegated before, for a Club our size it is almost inevitable.
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hasslem hasslem says...
3:10pm Mon 28 Nov 11