Call for ban on ‘legal high’ Black Mamba backed by MP Graham Jones

Lancashire Telegraph: DANGER Black Mamba which can be smoked to obtain a ‘high’ DANGER Black Mamba which can be smoked to obtain a ‘high’

A MUM whose teenage son became seriously ill after taking the new legal high ‘Black Mamba’ has called for it to be made illegal.

The 17-year-old tried the drug at a house party in Accrington and needed hospital treatment after he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'.

Other known side effects of the drug, which is smoked like cannabis, include delirium, stupor, hallucinations, dehydration and vomiting.

Hyndburn MP Graham Jones said he backed the move and called for an end to the ‘lunacy’ of ‘concocted chemicals’ being freely available.

It comes after mephedrone, also known as bubble, was reclassified as an illegal Class B drug by the Government in response to concerns over its links to several deaths of young people.

The new designer drug, which is a synthetic skunk cannabis substitute, has also put seven Cumbrian teenagers in A&E and prompted a warning from the police because of its ‘super’ strength in small doses.

The Lancashire Telegraph was easily able to buy a £10 packet from a tobacconist in Blackburn town centre, with the shop worker saying: “Use a small amount, it is very, very strong.”

The North West Health Protection Agency said its CRCE team (Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards) was also working with the National Poisons Information Service on the issue because of a growing number of cases.

The mum, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “My son went to a friend’s house party in Accrington.

"He was offered a smoke of a substance and as it was legal my son decided to try it and took one inhalation.

“Immediately he started to have very strong effects.

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“At one point he was bent over with his hands immersed in soil in the friend's garden.

"He said he was hallucinating and it was hugely overwhelming for him.

“His limbs became very rigid and he could not walk or move unaided.

"He stopped talking and was in a barely-conscious state.

"His body temperature reduced dramatically and his skin colour became grey and green.

"All these events occurred within 30 minutes.

“I cannot praise the hospital staff enough as they were so helpful, understanding and non judgmental.

“He has not suffered any adverse effect since apart from embarrassment and being grounded for being so stupid as to put an unknown substance in his body.”

Mr Jones said: “I think it is important to warn people of the dangers of the lunacy of drugs, legal highs and other concocted chemicals made up in 'back street' premises by greedy, ruthless, uncaring gangs.

“People involved in providing drugs are the lowest of the low.

"They fail to understand the misery caused by this industry, where families suffer the horrors of addiction, broken homes, wasted youth, ill health and early death.”

Health chiefs have warned that because legal highs are not regulated there is no research into the effect on people’s health now or in later life.

One batch can also be a lot stronger than another.

Some versions of Black Mamba are marketed as ‘not for human consumption’.

But the 1g packet the Lancashire Telegraph bought for £10 simply says it is 100 per cent legal.

Dr Tom Smith, the Lancashire Telegraph’s medical expert, said he couldn’t understand why people would take the drug given the risks involved.

He said: “The two main problems are that a very small proportion of people taking this drug can become psychotic and get a schizophrenic-like reaction that can be very difficult to treat and sometimes people don’t recover at all.

“The second thing is the cannabinoids stay in the brain quite a long time, so even years after they are still there which can lead to a high chance of dementia.

“If that’s not scary I don’t know what is.”

Licensing officer PC Andy Duxbury said: “This is something new on the market and was handed to us by trading standards.

“I would strongly advise against using it because it is not properly regulated and people don’t know what is in it and how they will react.”

Paul Noone, head of trading standards for Lancashire County Council, said: "Many products sold as legal highs are indeed legal, often because they are made using new synthetic substances or are not among those products already banned from sale by legislation.

"Our advice to people is that products sold as legal highs are very often unregulated and people should be aware that just because they are available on the high street it doesn't mean the product is safe to use.”

Carl Fletcher, operations manager at Early Break - a confidential local service for under 21s - said: “It is something that is only just emerging. Legal highs imply safety, but that is not necessarily the case.

"Young people concerned about it should contact us.”

Comments (33)

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2:22pm Thu 8 Dec 11

'Kean on getting out..! says...

Yes Ban it..

'Why should the tobacconist's make
all the money on it? Share out the profits and give these drugs to the black market who will also advise their customers of the amounts that are safe doses'.Am sure..yawn laugh same old story were drugs are concerned.
Ban it shove it under the carpet
hand over the prifits to the black market..
Yes Ban it.. 'Why should the tobacconist's make all the money on it? Share out the profits and give these drugs to the black market who will also advise their customers of the amounts that are safe doses'.Am sure..yawn laugh same old story were drugs are concerned. Ban it shove it under the carpet hand over the prifits to the black market.. 'Kean on getting out..!

2:23pm Thu 8 Dec 11

FreddyF says...

Drugs of all types need a lot of testing before being suitable for human consumption. That's expected.

Why is the only answer to dangerous legal highs to try and ban them all? How about regulating the safer ones so that new products are thoroughly tested before being sold with standards of purity, restrictions on sales age and venue and clear instructions and precautions. Just like we do for food additives or medicines.

This is the first time I've ever heard about cannabinoids staying in the brain and causing dementia. I smell BS and I would like to know what research has ever shown that to be the case.
Drugs of all types need a lot of testing before being suitable for human consumption. That's expected. Why is the only answer to dangerous legal highs to try and ban them all? How about regulating the safer ones so that new products are thoroughly tested before being sold with standards of purity, restrictions on sales age and venue and clear instructions and precautions. Just like we do for food additives or medicines. This is the first time I've ever heard about cannabinoids staying in the brain and causing dementia. I smell BS and I would like to know what research has ever shown that to be the case. FreddyF

3:15pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Peter-Reynolds says...

Such dangerous events could easily be avoided if our cowardly politicians would take responsibility and regulate the cannabis supply chain rather than this ridiculous, wasteful and discredited "just say no" policy.

Mankind has used cannabis safely and effectively for around 27,000 years. Only in the last 80 years has this disastrous experiment of prohibition been tried.

Tax and regulate. Reduce all health and social harms and pull the rug from underneath organised crime.

See www.clear-uk.org for the truth about cannabis.
Such dangerous events could easily be avoided if our cowardly politicians would take responsibility and regulate the cannabis supply chain rather than this ridiculous, wasteful and discredited "just say no" policy. Mankind has used cannabis safely and effectively for around 27,000 years. Only in the last 80 years has this disastrous experiment of prohibition been tried. Tax and regulate. Reduce all health and social harms and pull the rug from underneath organised crime. See www.clear-uk.org for the truth about cannabis. Peter-Reynolds

3:32pm Thu 8 Dec 11

jft1990 says...

I am a cannabis smoker. And whilst smoking cannabis I have experienced none of the alledged side effects of this drug. From my point of view it would be much safer to regulate cannabis meaning users would know what they're getting, it would come from a safe source that wont be trying to hook them on something more addictive, it would become harder for those under a recommended age limit to get hold of than it is now and it would take away vital funding for criminal gangs. It would also stop people going to lengths such as untested "Legal highs" to get what could be a nice, safe, cosy cannabis high.
I am a cannabis smoker. And whilst smoking cannabis I have experienced none of the alledged side effects of this drug. From my point of view it would be much safer to regulate cannabis meaning users would know what they're getting, it would come from a safe source that wont be trying to hook them on something more addictive, it would become harder for those under a recommended age limit to get hold of than it is now and it would take away vital funding for criminal gangs. It would also stop people going to lengths such as untested "Legal highs" to get what could be a nice, safe, cosy cannabis high. jft1990

3:36pm Thu 8 Dec 11

SteveSimpson says...

Outright banning of these 'legal highs' will not solve the problem. If prohibition of existing highs were lifted there wouldn't be a need for new ones. Then we would have a regulated system which would be made much safer. Prohibition will not stop it, it will simply push it further underground.
Outright banning of these 'legal highs' will not solve the problem. If prohibition of existing highs were lifted there wouldn't be a need for new ones. Then we would have a regulated system which would be made much safer. Prohibition will not stop it, it will simply push it further underground. SteveSimpson

3:41pm Thu 8 Dec 11

midas says...

"He was offered a smoke of a substance and as it was legal my son decided to try it and took one inhalation".
.
I can just imagine the conversation, what a level headed lad to have checked the classification of the drugs in the joint before he smoked it!!!! :-)
.
honest mum they said it was legal!!
"He was offered a smoke of a substance and as it was legal my son decided to try it and took one inhalation". . I can just imagine the conversation, what a level headed lad to have checked the classification of the drugs in the joint before he smoked it!!!! :-) . honest mum they said it was legal!! midas

3:58pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Greylox says...

Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/
The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol.
Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/ The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol. Greylox

3:59pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Greylox says...

Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/
The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol.
Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/ The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol. Greylox

4:10pm Thu 8 Dec 11

ravehat says...

'Dr Tom Smith, the Lancashire Telegraph’s medical expert'
this is a fallacy, it is an appeal to false authority. he is not and expert in the field of legal highs so his comments are void and misleading.

“The two main problems are that a very small proportion of people taking this drug can become psychotic and get a schizophrenic-like reaction that can be very difficult to treat and sometimes people don’t recover at all'
this is an opinion not a fact. in fact there is no evidence to support this, recently the correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia have been shown to be 'overstated' http://onlinelibrary
.wiley.com/doi/10.11
11/j.1360-0443.2009.
02846.x/abstract
this can be seen simply like this. over the past 20 years the use of cannabiniods have greatly increased, yet the instances of schizophrenia in the UK have remained at 0.5%. if the alleged link was to be true this percentage would be much greater.
using cannabis is dangerous but the greatest risk is not cannabis itself but the use of tobacco with cannabis that does the largest amount of damage following this the law itself does more damage then cannabis.
you can not hide from the truth and the truth is, young adults will experiment. why turn them into criminals as a result?
'Dr Tom Smith, the Lancashire Telegraph’s medical expert' this is a fallacy, it is an appeal to false authority. he is not and expert in the field of legal highs so his comments are void and misleading. “The two main problems are that a very small proportion of people taking this drug can become psychotic and get a schizophrenic-like reaction that can be very difficult to treat and sometimes people don’t recover at all' this is an opinion not a fact. in fact there is no evidence to support this, recently the correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia have been shown to be 'overstated' http://onlinelibrary .wiley.com/doi/10.11 11/j.1360-0443.2009. 02846.x/abstract this can be seen simply like this. over the past 20 years the use of cannabiniods have greatly increased, yet the instances of schizophrenia in the UK have remained at 0.5%. if the alleged link was to be true this percentage would be much greater. using cannabis is dangerous but the greatest risk is not cannabis itself but the use of tobacco with cannabis that does the largest amount of damage following this the law itself does more damage then cannabis. you can not hide from the truth and the truth is, young adults will experiment. why turn them into criminals as a result? ravehat

4:16pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Lifeinthemix says...

what has legal got to do with anything...?

if you don't consent to all things legal then they are worthless.
I think Jones is a bity of a johnny come lately, I have yet to hear anything from this man that has relevence.

get rid of the term illegal and regulate everything the people use, tax it and hey presto drug dealer violence is gone, we can fire all intelligence security and save a fortune then lend the money back to the people so we can build business again not controlled by the corporate realm.
what has legal got to do with anything...? if you don't consent to all things legal then they are worthless. I think Jones is a bity of a johnny come lately, I have yet to hear anything from this man that has relevence. get rid of the term illegal and regulate everything the people use, tax it and hey presto drug dealer violence is gone, we can fire all intelligence security and save a fortune then lend the money back to the people so we can build business again not controlled by the corporate realm. Lifeinthemix

6:07pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Chris P Bacon says...

Greylox wrote:
Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/
The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol.
Yeah but think about it; we already have a major obesity problem in this country so imagine how much worse that would get if this appetite stimulant was readily available! You think there are too many whales walking down your street now? The toll on the NHS would destroy it.
[quote][p][bold]Greylox[/bold] wrote: Unnatural cannabis substitutes are a lot more dangerous than the great herb mother earth gave us...well there's a surprise :/ The blame lies solely at the feet of the decades of useless politicians that have caused this whole situation by denying people safe cannabis in a regulated system like alcohol.[/p][/quote]Yeah but think about it; we already have a major obesity problem in this country so imagine how much worse that would get if this appetite stimulant was readily available! You think there are too many whales walking down your street now? The toll on the NHS would destroy it. Chris P Bacon

6:31pm Thu 8 Dec 11

maozzie says...

I do not see how cannabis has anthing to do with this story other than the fact that some people smoke it, as they do tobacco.
If Dr Smith was my GP I would be quite concerned about his limited knowledge of cannabinoids.I am currently prescribed cannabis as medecine in the form of Sativex and have been assured by the manufacturers that it has no damaging effects on the brain.If Dr Smith checks his facts he will find that cannabinoids actually protect people against dementia.The US Govt has taken out a patent on cannabinoids as a neuroprotector.
We are fed up with being told the same old lies that cannabis drives you mad.Science is proving it wrong.Stories such as these, that quote out-dated and false evidence as fact amount to disinformation.
In any case a drug policy that bases itself on the notion that legal things are "safe" and illegal things "dangerous"is doomed to failure.Look at alcohol and tobacco.It certainly does not protect those it claims to as this story proves.
I do not see how cannabis has anthing to do with this story other than the fact that some people smoke it, as they do tobacco. If Dr Smith was my GP I would be quite concerned about his limited knowledge of cannabinoids.I am currently prescribed cannabis as medecine in the form of Sativex and have been assured by the manufacturers that it has no damaging effects on the brain.If Dr Smith checks his facts he will find that cannabinoids actually protect people against dementia.The US Govt has taken out a patent on cannabinoids as a neuroprotector. We are fed up with being told the same old lies that cannabis drives you mad.Science is proving it wrong.Stories such as these, that quote out-dated and false evidence as fact amount to disinformation. In any case a drug policy that bases itself on the notion that legal things are "safe" and illegal things "dangerous"is doomed to failure.Look at alcohol and tobacco.It certainly does not protect those it claims to as this story proves. maozzie

7:17pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Good call says...

Lifeinthemix wrote:
what has legal got to do with anything...? if you don't consent to all things legal then they are worthless. I think Jones is a bity of a johnny come lately, I have yet to hear anything from this man that has relevence. get rid of the term illegal and regulate everything the people use, tax it and hey presto drug dealer violence is gone, we can fire all intelligence security and save a fortune then lend the money back to the people so we can build business again not controlled by the corporate realm.
I don't see any wrong in your proposal.
[quote][p][bold]Lifeinthemix[/bold] wrote: what has legal got to do with anything...? if you don't consent to all things legal then they are worthless. I think Jones is a bity of a johnny come lately, I have yet to hear anything from this man that has relevence. get rid of the term illegal and regulate everything the people use, tax it and hey presto drug dealer violence is gone, we can fire all intelligence security and save a fortune then lend the money back to the people so we can build business again not controlled by the corporate realm.[/p][/quote]I don't see any wrong in your proposal. Good call

8:35pm Thu 8 Dec 11

working chap says...

The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals!
The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals! working chap

8:55pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...

working chap wrote:
The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals!
Not true!, I prefer to chill on a bit of weed and have no side effects the day after, unlike if I have a night on the Beer I spend most the next day sat on the toilet and having a hangover. When government scientists are sacked for telling the truth I know something much bigger is really happening Alcohol is the danger drug not weed.
[quote][p][bold]working chap[/bold] wrote: The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals![/p][/quote]Not true!, I prefer to chill on a bit of weed and have no side effects the day after, unlike if I have a night on the Beer I spend most the next day sat on the toilet and having a hangover. When government scientists are sacked for telling the truth I know something much bigger is really happening Alcohol is the danger drug not weed. Michael@ClitheroeSince58

9:02pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Peter-Reynolds says...

working chap wrote:
The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals!
What absolute drivel! Your anger and lack of insight speaks volumes about you. You clearly do have problems. I suspect just a smidgin of weed would transform you into a much nicer, happier person and allow you to become yourself.
[quote][p][bold]working chap[/bold] wrote: The drug problem only exists because of stupid, weak-willed a*******s who can't get through life without some sort of chemical crutch. We all have problems - get a grip and ditch the chemicals![/p][/quote]What absolute drivel! Your anger and lack of insight speaks volumes about you. You clearly do have problems. I suspect just a smidgin of weed would transform you into a much nicer, happier person and allow you to become yourself. Peter-Reynolds

9:38pm Thu 8 Dec 11

hairy mary says...

i think that name should be banned to
i think that name should be banned to hairy mary

9:53pm Thu 8 Dec 11

Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...

hairy mary wrote:
i think that name should be banned to
I bet you got the real thing Mary lol
[quote][p][bold]hairy mary[/bold] wrote: i think that name should be banned to[/p][/quote]I bet you got the real thing Mary lol Michael@ClitheroeSince58

10:17pm Thu 8 Dec 11

captain ian says...

The problem with all these legal highs which keep comming out is that when the goverment ban them the manufactures of this filth just alter the ingredients slightly and start selling them under different name. The answer to this problem is that all legal highs should have to have goverment licence, Then the goverment could refuse all licence applications.... End of problem.. just a thought..
The problem with all these legal highs which keep comming out is that when the goverment ban them the manufactures of this filth just alter the ingredients slightly and start selling them under different name. The answer to this problem is that all legal highs should have to have goverment licence, Then the goverment could refuse all licence applications.... End of problem.. just a thought.. captain ian

2:23am Fri 9 Dec 11

liskewth says...

People smoke black mamba because cannabis is illegal. Making this illegal will just move the market onto something else. A nice handy "not for human consumption" label covers the vendors of these highs from liability when something bad happens.

It's a shame really because in comparison, cannabis is harmless. This problem is created by such illegality.

My MP Mr. Jones' comment on drug dealers:
"They fail to understand the misery caused by this industry, where families suffer the horrors of addiction, broken homes, wasted youth, ill health and early death."

These dealers understand perfectly well what it's like to have police smash through your doors and windows, ransack your house, call social services to take away your kids and ruin careers and job opportunities for life. So do the people who take these drugs, which is why they feel safer going for the legal option, at the expense of their own health.

It's strange how addiction to illegal drugs can cause "broken homes" yet when compared to an addiction to nicotine (which is identical by definition to what any drug addiction is) the difference comes when people don't see the nicotine they just see the vehicle (cigarettes &c.) ... it becomes clear after reading this article that the difference between the two is the legality.

If we legalised cannabis and focused efforts on education, letting people make their own mind up and actually giving people a choice as long as their actions don't affect others, the problem of "legal highs" starts to go away.

We have legal highs because people WANT to take drugs; they don't need a "crutch" or any of this tiresome rubbish that people without a clue go on about over and over again on articles like this and their respective comment sections. Some people like a drink and that's their choice to make. Other people prefer to use other recreational drugs.

They don't want to destroy the very fabric of civilisation and make everyone miserable, it just so happens that they want to take drugs - no help required (in most cases), no interventions needed, just enjoying something other than what we're told we can only enjoy, which is fair enough.

Drug dealers know this more than anyone, which is why as long as it is profitable for them they will keep selling things that make people high or whatever feeling they are shopping for. Because prison isn't fun for anyone, people avoid this future by selling things that are still technically legal. It makes sense from this perspective, since there are still massive profits to be made and the threat of prison is gone.

Then you have the governments over the years making laws to tell us what we can and can't put into ourselves. Coming out with drivel like "you will put a burden on the NHS," which I will get to in a moment. Nothing's more annoying, as a grown adult, than some moron telling you that you can't do something because you're "not allowed" ... this is of course in the context of taking drugs. Not everything should be legalised, e.g. murder and whatever else I get when I say something should be legalised. Common sense has to come into it.

This highlights how seriously this country needs drug policy reform, rather than "fighting them harder". How many kids are going to die from taking things like wheel alloy cleaner and mephedrone before this becomes obvious to everyone else? The problem here is the Misuse of Drugs Act. There are over 600 substances on there now; even the police themselves can't account for every one on the spot. There are articles left and right about "make this legal thing illegal" ... these legal highs weren't a problem before, so why are they now? Legislating to protect people against their own behaviour isn't what policy should be doing in this century and it's certainly not helping people who are dying from their own attempts to simply get the feeling they paid for and abide by the law which, if the suits would wake up and realise, they would find nearly ALL drug users are willing to do if some reasonable arrangement was laid down instead of the Home Office et al slamming the door shut in their face.
People smoke black mamba because cannabis is illegal. Making this illegal will just move the market onto something else. A nice handy "not for human consumption" label covers the vendors of these highs from liability when something bad happens. It's a shame really because in comparison, cannabis is harmless. This problem is created by such illegality. My MP Mr. Jones' comment on drug dealers: "They fail to understand the misery caused by this industry, where families suffer the horrors of addiction, broken homes, wasted youth, ill health and early death." These dealers understand perfectly well what it's like to have police smash through your doors and windows, ransack your house, call social services to take away your kids and ruin careers and job opportunities for life. So do the people who take these drugs, which is why they feel safer going for the legal option, at the expense of their own health. It's strange how addiction to illegal drugs can cause "broken homes" yet when compared to an addiction to nicotine (which is identical by definition to what any drug addiction is) the difference comes when people don't see the nicotine they just see the vehicle (cigarettes &c.) ... it becomes clear after reading this article that the difference between the two is the legality. If we legalised cannabis and focused efforts on education, letting people make their own mind up and actually giving people a choice as long as their actions don't affect others, the problem of "legal highs" starts to go away. We have legal highs because people WANT to take drugs; they don't need a "crutch" or any of this tiresome rubbish that people without a clue go on about over and over again on articles like this and their respective comment sections. Some people like a drink and that's their choice to make. Other people prefer to use other recreational drugs. They don't want to destroy the very fabric of civilisation and make everyone miserable, it just so happens that they want to take drugs - no help required (in most cases), no interventions needed, just enjoying something other than what we're told we can only enjoy, which is fair enough. Drug dealers know this more than anyone, which is why as long as it is profitable for them they will keep selling things that make people high or whatever feeling they are shopping for. Because prison isn't fun for anyone, people avoid this future by selling things that are still technically legal. It makes sense from this perspective, since there are still massive profits to be made and the threat of prison is gone. Then you have the governments over the years making laws to tell us what we can and can't put into ourselves. Coming out with drivel like "you will put a burden on the NHS," which I will get to in a moment. Nothing's more annoying, as a grown adult, than some moron telling you that you can't do something because you're "not allowed" ... this is of course in the context of taking drugs. Not everything should be legalised, e.g. murder and whatever else I get when I say something should be legalised. Common sense has to come into it. This highlights how seriously this country needs drug policy reform, rather than "fighting them harder". How many kids are going to die from taking things like wheel alloy cleaner and mephedrone before this becomes obvious to everyone else? The problem here is the Misuse of Drugs Act. There are over 600 substances on there now; even the police themselves can't account for every one on the spot. There are articles left and right about "make this legal thing illegal" ... these legal highs weren't a problem before, so why are they now? Legislating to protect people against their own behaviour isn't what policy should be doing in this century and it's certainly not helping people who are dying from their own attempts to simply get the feeling they paid for and abide by the law which, if the suits would wake up and realise, they would find nearly ALL drug users are willing to do if some reasonable arrangement was laid down instead of the Home Office et al slamming the door shut in their face. liskewth

8:31am Fri 9 Dec 11

Phil St says...

"The second thing is the cannabinoids stay in the brain quite a long time, so even years after they are still there which can lead to a high chance of dementia."

This is complete rubbish - the brain contains naturally occurring cannabinoids called anandamide, which Dr Smith must be aware of. Also, if this substance DID contain cannabinoids, it would be illegal because it would be a cannabis extract.

The Daily Mail reported about three weeks ago that since mephedrone and ketamine were banned the use of both has INCREASED. No doubt the same will happen with this awful sounding concoction.

@liskewth Excellent article, I totally agree.
"The second thing is the cannabinoids stay in the brain quite a long time, so even years after they are still there which can lead to a high chance of dementia." This is complete rubbish - the brain contains naturally occurring cannabinoids called anandamide, which Dr Smith must be aware of. Also, if this substance DID contain cannabinoids, it would be illegal because it would be a cannabis extract. The Daily Mail reported about three weeks ago that since mephedrone and ketamine were banned the use of both has INCREASED. No doubt the same will happen with this awful sounding concoction. @liskewth Excellent article, I totally agree. Phil St

11:06am Fri 9 Dec 11

HarwoodBiker says...

"he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'."

- sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time.

Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol?

Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know...
"he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'." - sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time. Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol? Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know... HarwoodBiker

11:06am Fri 9 Dec 11

HarwoodBiker says...

"he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'."

- sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time.

Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol?

Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know...
"he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'." - sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time. Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol? Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know... HarwoodBiker

11:13am Fri 9 Dec 11

gudari says...

Peter-Reynolds wrote:
Such dangerous events could easily be avoided if our cowardly politicians would take responsibility and regulate the cannabis supply chain rather than this ridiculous, wasteful and discredited "just say no" policy.

Mankind has used cannabis safely and effectively for around 27,000 years. Only in the last 80 years has this disastrous experiment of prohibition been tried.

Tax and regulate. Reduce all health and social harms and pull the rug from underneath organised crime.

See www.clear-uk.org for the truth about cannabis.
Voice of reason!
[quote][p][bold]Peter-Reynolds[/bold] wrote: Such dangerous events could easily be avoided if our cowardly politicians would take responsibility and regulate the cannabis supply chain rather than this ridiculous, wasteful and discredited "just say no" policy. Mankind has used cannabis safely and effectively for around 27,000 years. Only in the last 80 years has this disastrous experiment of prohibition been tried. Tax and regulate. Reduce all health and social harms and pull the rug from underneath organised crime. See www.clear-uk.org for the truth about cannabis.[/p][/quote]Voice of reason! gudari

11:23am Fri 9 Dec 11

gudari says...

HarwoodBiker wrote:
"he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'."

- sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time.

Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol?

Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know...
Totally agree with your comments. "Having a whitey" happens when you take something stronger than you're used to. If cannabis were regulated, this would never happen. You never hear of anyone being rushed to hospital after smoking a B&H or drinking a beer because they know exactly what one cigarette or one drink will do. Simples!!
[quote][p][bold]HarwoodBiker[/bold] wrote: "he lost control of his limbs, his body temperature dropped rapidly and he turned 'grey'." - sounds like he had a "whitey", then. Something that's happened to most potheads once upon a time. Why is it that when someone turns up at hospital needing their stomach pumped after drinking too much, no-one calls for an outright ban of alcohol? Anyway, I've got some of this "Black Mamba" stuff - I had to try it, because I've never thought that these 'smoking mixtures' actually worked. I'll let you know...[/p][/quote]Totally agree with your comments. "Having a whitey" happens when you take something stronger than you're used to. If cannabis were regulated, this would never happen. You never hear of anyone being rushed to hospital after smoking a B&H or drinking a beer because they know exactly what one cigarette or one drink will do. Simples!! gudari

12:20pm Fri 9 Dec 11

Jack Herer says...

I love this Dr Tom Smith, the Lancashire Telegraph’s medical expert. Is he for real or a quack? Either way, bizarrely but sadly unsurprisingly, he's wrong.

His two main "dangers":

"The two main problems are that a very small proportion of people taking this drug can become psychotic and get a schizophrenic-like reaction that can be very difficult to treat and sometimes people don’t recover at all."

Yes, very good, but the bigger picture surely please, otherwise it looks like you are just sensationalising like the tabloids. That's not very scientific Dr Smith, and surely goes against all your training. We haven't returned to the days of heresy or witchcraft - science and reason please, we are post enlightenment.

All mind altering drugs have this risk, and this risk is worse with alcohol or even caffeine. No-one seems to care about this danger with those drugs Dr Tom Smith - care to explain why? I'll save you the bother, it's because there are so many other much more probable dangers with alcohol which cannabis just doesn't have. The best one you can come up with cannabis is something no-one is bothered about with alcohol when it's actually worse for that.

“The second thing is the cannabinoids stay in the brain quite a long time, so even years after they are still there which can lead to a high chance of dementia."

Total and utter rubbish you complete charlatan. The way cannabis is broken down in the body is it is turned into harmless fat deposits which are excreted by the body by normal processes. It these that stay in your body for a while, but this is completely natural and is how other everyday substances are also broken down.

You can buy cannabis oil - pure - in Tesco. It's made from cannabis seeds and doesn't have any psychoactive ingredients. It's called "Good Oil" - because it is literally so good for you (better than olive oil for instance), and they don't want the tabloid stigma already associated with cannabis. This is broken down by the body in the same harmless natural way. If there was any dangers, i.e. a risk of dementia, then there would be an outcry for selling it to the public.

There is no outcry because there is no danger. The cannabis staying in your system tale is a half story, mixed with a half truth, mixed with lies to come out out with deceit.

What a disgrace to science eh - calling yourself a doctor but actually peddling ignorance.
I love this Dr Tom Smith, the Lancashire Telegraph’s medical expert. Is he for real or a quack? Either way, bizarrely but sadly unsurprisingly, he's wrong. His two main "dangers": "The two main problems are that a very small proportion of people taking this drug can become psychotic and get a schizophrenic-like reaction that can be very difficult to treat and sometimes people don’t recover at all." Yes, very good, but the bigger picture surely please, otherwise it looks like you are just sensationalising like the tabloids. That's not very scientific Dr Smith, and surely goes against all your training. We haven't returned to the days of heresy or witchcraft - science and reason please, we are post enlightenment. All mind altering drugs have this risk, and this risk is worse with alcohol or even caffeine. No-one seems to care about this danger with those drugs Dr Tom Smith - care to explain why? I'll save you the bother, it's because there are so many other much more probable dangers with alcohol which cannabis just doesn't have. The best one you can come up with cannabis is something no-one is bothered about with alcohol when it's actually worse for that. “The second thing is the cannabinoids stay in the brain quite a long time, so even years after they are still there which can lead to a high chance of dementia." Total and utter rubbish you complete charlatan. The way cannabis is broken down in the body is it is turned into harmless fat deposits which are excreted by the body by normal processes. It these that stay in your body for a while, but this is completely natural and is how other everyday substances are also broken down. You can buy cannabis oil - pure - in Tesco. It's made from cannabis seeds and doesn't have any psychoactive ingredients. It's called "Good Oil" - because it is literally so good for you (better than olive oil for instance), and they don't want the tabloid stigma already associated with cannabis. This is broken down by the body in the same harmless natural way. If there was any dangers, i.e. a risk of dementia, then there would be an outcry for selling it to the public. There is no outcry because there is no danger. The cannabis staying in your system tale is a half story, mixed with a half truth, mixed with lies to come out out with deceit. What a disgrace to science eh - calling yourself a doctor but actually peddling ignorance. Jack Herer

11:43pm Fri 9 Dec 11

maozzie says...

To all concerned,
Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young".
The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery.
Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done.
Martin and Hannah.
To all concerned, Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young". The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery. Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done. Martin and Hannah. maozzie

12:10am Sat 10 Dec 11

maozzie says...

To all concerned,
Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young".
The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery.
Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done.
Martin and Hannah.
To all concerned, Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young". The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery. Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done. Martin and Hannah. maozzie

12:11am Sat 10 Dec 11

maozzie says...

To all concerned,
Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young".
The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery.
Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done.
Martin and Hannah.
To all concerned, Please see the 'newsandstar.co.uk' article on Thursday Dec 8 entitled- Shocking Toll Over Drinking.Alcohol "epidemic"causes liver desease to rocket among young". The real doctors and specialists of the North are calling for "urgent action" on a much more significant problem to young people than legal highs or cannabis, and oh yes it's legal!A 400% rise in hospital admissions for alcoholic liver damage among people aged 30-34 since 2002?Maybe going out on the beer on a friday night isn't so safe after all!The article describes us as having an "excessively pro-alcohol culture" .Unlike the side-effects of Black Mamba"the liver has very few nerve endings,so you don't feel pain until it's too late.The northern medics want the government to"stop the alcohol industry recruiting children and young people as the next generation of drinkers"To me this is the "lowest of the low" and our government needs to start implementing a policy that addresses the real harms that are facing our young people and stop this mega-industry from continuing to profit from societys misery. Well done everybody for speaking up.Join CLEAR as we have just done. Martin and Hannah. maozzie

9:19pm Sat 10 Dec 11

boyofdarovers says...

Got to agree with the majority. Drugs should be legalised, therefore you have controlled purity and you wipeout the black market in one swoop whilst earning huge amounts in VAT and product. Who knows perhaps even get the current pushers to go legal for once with jobs!!
If this isn't possible then there should be consistent legislation applied and thus the likes of alcohol, nicotine and caffeine should also become illegal.
Got to agree with the majority. Drugs should be legalised, therefore you have controlled purity and you wipeout the black market in one swoop whilst earning huge amounts in VAT and product. Who knows perhaps even get the current pushers to go legal for once with jobs!! If this isn't possible then there should be consistent legislation applied and thus the likes of alcohol, nicotine and caffeine should also become illegal. boyofdarovers

10:36pm Sat 10 Dec 11

liskewth says...

@boyofdarovers interesting point not many seem to have mentioned before. a chance for a criminal drug dealer to go clean and set up a reputable business. it might not be as lucrative as the black market they have now but they will certainly redeem themselves and perhaps be able to lead a normal crime free life. an excellent case for legalisation
@boyofdarovers interesting point not many seem to have mentioned before. a chance for a criminal drug dealer to go clean and set up a reputable business. it might not be as lucrative as the black market they have now but they will certainly redeem themselves and perhaps be able to lead a normal crime free life. an excellent case for legalisation liskewth

4:42pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Ragnarok says...

Are these so-called 'Experts' stupid?! If you look on the packet,it says '100% Damiana',which is generally sold as an incense. It is also legally available from HOLLAND&BARRETT'S in a tea form! So are they trying to say that a reputable company like Holland&Barrett's are shady drugs dealers?!
Are these so-called 'Experts' stupid?! If you look on the packet,it says '100% Damiana',which is generally sold as an incense. It is also legally available from HOLLAND&BARRETT'S in a tea form! So are they trying to say that a reputable company like Holland&Barrett's are shady drugs dealers?! Ragnarok

4:44pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Ragnarok says...

Here a link to explain exactly what Damiana is...

http://www.hollandan
dbarrett.com/vf/heal
thnotes/hn_live_uk/H
erb/Damiana.htm
Here a link to explain exactly what Damiana is... http://www.hollandan dbarrett.com/vf/heal thnotes/hn_live_uk/H erb/Damiana.htm Ragnarok

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