Muslims told to remove veils on visit to college in Blackburn (From Lancashire Telegraph)
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Muslims told to remove veils on visit to college in Blackburn
8:00am Tuesday 30th June 2009 in News
Muslims told to remove veils on visit to college in Blackburn
AN emergency meeting is to be held by school bosses after its Muslim pupils and staff were allegedly told to remove their veils.
It is understood a group from Islamiyah School, Willow Street, Blackburn, had visited St Mary’s College, Blackburn, for a taster day last week.
When some of the group arrived wearing the veil, which covers a woman’s face and leaves the eyes visible, St Mary’s College staff asked them to remove them on grounds it was contrary to the Shear Brow college’s policy.
It is understood the two pupils in question did remove their veils once the policy was explained.
But a member of staff did not remove her veil and left the premises.
Islamiyah School said it would consider commenting on the issue after a meeting tonight.
This latest controversy comes after North West Euro-MP Liberal Democrat Chris Davies said the burka, which covers a woman from head to toe and only leaves the eyes visible, did not belong in 21st century Britain.
He called on Muslim women in the region to take them off.
It also comes months after a parent was turned away at a parents’ evening at Our Lady’s and St John’s Catholic Arts College over security fears as she was wearing the full veil.
In a statement, St Mary’s headteacher Kevin McMahon said: “St Mary’s College is a Beacon College with a national reputation for its contribution to community cohesion.
“Ofsted (2008) observed that ‘The college’s contribution to the promotion and celebration of equality and diversity is outstanding.
“[It] is committed to community cohesion and takes active steps to promote dialogue and understanding between individuals from different backgrounds’.
“At the start of one of our taster days for prospective students last week, some visitors did arrive wearing the veil.
“When the policy was explained to them, all except one were willing to remove it.
“This lady – a member of staff at the school – refused, and opted to leave the premises.
“My colleague offered to arrange transport, but this offer was declined.”
Salim Mulla, vice-chair of the Lancashire Council of Mosques, said: “I think the college staff should be understanding towards the needs of the community.
“It is a belief they have themselves.
“I don’t think people should be forced to take it off, it is what they have chosen to wear because it is their belief.”
Comments(189)
d146895x
says...
8:17am Tue 30 Jun 09
Little Diamond
says...
8:18am Tue 30 Jun 09
If the answer to that question is yes they can take them off by choice. If they want to attend the college they know what to expect and can find another college if they dont like it.
I have been eating in Aisian restauraunts where muslim ladies have come in wearing a burka, they take it off to eat their meal. You cant have everything your own way and pick and choose which rules you wish to adhere to. Before anyone accuses me of being racist my last paragraph applies to everyone in the country especially politicians.
lala1
says...
8:58am Tue 30 Jun 09
chocky
says...
9:19am Tue 30 Jun 09
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:29am Tue 30 Jun 09
Community cohesion.?
Has anyone ever heard of the word elbow room ? Has everything in the universe got to have a policy. Do Grown up Adult People still have to be told what to wear from up above in head office.?
Lamentable, so very sad. Our fixation with rules is destroying the whole community but I suspect we are all too Blind to see that.
Are we afraid of clothing or just living in Terror of giving any elbow room to anyone.
It is important to remember that the only thing the Catholic and the Muslim is going to keep is an appointment with Death.
On that day, Nobody will be keeping their Burkah and not one Pope ever has ever kept hold of his beads.
Just in case they strangle some of the other corpses with them.
masrock
says...
9:31am Tue 30 Jun 09
In contrast how much of an outcry would their be if (in protest) men wore ski masks. I wonder how long before arrests are made.
It's insulting to men as it assumes we can't be trusted to control our urges.
Again i wonder how long before violence is threatened id I dared wear a t-shirt showing a veiled woman and the line "Thanks for not stimulating my uncontrollable urges!"
Finally, when my young daughter asks why are they wearing mask, all I can say is, "they are just a being silly" - And it's the truth.
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:34am Tue 30 Jun 09
Why not just do nothing at all about it.?
Harleygirl
says...
9:35am Tue 30 Jun 09
As has already been said, if the ladies wear the Burka by choice, then they should have every right to remove it...by choice, especially when community relationships can be forged. The teacher concerned refused to move hers which displays a blatant lack of respect for other 'cultures' but expected her choices and religion to be respected. The best outcome was that she left...by choice and the college enforced their policy.
I find it odd that Mr Mulla is the one to say what happened was wrong - it wasn't wrong, it was a matter of the ladies choice and he should show them a great deal of respect for what they achieved that day. They took an enormous step forward that in the current climate is commendable, it's a great deal more than he has achieved for the town.
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:42am Tue 30 Jun 09
When your daughter asks you that question you should tell her to go ask the lady herself and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Unless of course you are a mind-reader and you think you know why each woman your daughter sees is wearing a Burkah.
Be a Man, tell your daughter to find out for herself. If she is old enough to ask the question she will understand the womans answer without Daddies empty headed and insulting interpretation.
Women in Burkahs are still allowed to answer questions as far as I know.
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:46am Tue 30 Jun 09
How or why do you assume it shows a lack of respect for other cultures.
Does this Woman have no freedomt to choose what she wears and where she wears it.
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:51am Tue 30 Jun 09
I turned round and walked away because I didn't like being told to take off my hat. I found another club and spent my money in there with my hat still on.
Was I showing a lack of respect for any culture, or any club by not removing my hat and going elsewhere.???
Mike Costa
says...
10:39am Tue 30 Jun 09
Ken Shuffles wrote:Mike Costa says:
I went to nightclub once and was told I had to take off my baseball cap if I wanted to go inside. I turned round and walked away because I didn't like being told to take off my hat. I found another club and spent my money in there with my hat still on. Was I showing a lack of respect for any culture, or any club by not removing my hat and going elsewhere.???
Hi Ken. Your argument falls down in as much as any club can create rules and, however absurd they are, people have to adhere to them, or, as you did, go elsewhere.
The same applies to the wearing of the Burkha (sic). The college rule is that they shouldnt be worn. The choice is then up to the student. Do they want to attend or not? If yes, then they must remove the article, if no, they go elsewhere. The two students showed, in my opinion, common sense.
You will know, I hope, that I am not a racist. However, I do find this fad for wearing a veil to be antagonistic. It certainly has no place in anyones religion. It appears that they are worn to stick the proverbial two fingers up at the indiginous population. As such the indiginous population has a right of response. Mine is to wolf whistle when I see one being worn. Childish maybe, but it makes me feel better, and if everyone did it, I'm betting the fad will soon lose some of its appeal.
retired one
says...
10:44am Tue 30 Jun 09
Enough said, because these comments will soon be removed as we do not have freedom of speech when this subject is raised.
rggraham1947
says...
11:04am Tue 30 Jun 09
portolibero
says...
11:13am Tue 30 Jun 09
By refusing to take off her veil and going to the press, this woman is setting a bad example to the children she teaches and is selfishly undermining the relationships between the school she represents and the college, as well as the community spirit in St Mary's itself. She should be ashamed of herself.
mebs
says...
11:15am Tue 30 Jun 09
lala1
says...
12:20pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Mike
says...
12:48pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Mike Costa
says...
12:54pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Mike wrote:Mike Costa says:
Maybe if these Muslim women don't want Muslim men to see their faces, Muslim men could were blindfolds instead.
Cracking idea Mike. Bet it doesnt catch on. Still, if we put it forward as a reigious necessity, then just maybe....
archibold
says...
12:56pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs
says...
12:58pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ChiRho
says...
12:58pm Tue 30 Jun 09
The veil is most definately a barrier to communication and therefore integration.
A number of times I have passed a veiled person at my daughters school and politely said hello. I do not know if this illicited a response as I did not hear anything nor could I see the person in questions mouth. How a deaf person, who lip reads, would cope I do not know.
The fact remains that the veil is preventing cohesion and separating the differing communities not bringing them together.
Secondly, and perhaps more contentious, I somewhat feel insulted when I see someone in a veil. My understanding is that part of the reason for wearing the veil is to "protect" men from their desires. Well, I am sorry, but I can control my desires myself thank-you and to assume I am about to **** after a woman who is not wearing a veil is highly insulting.
It is sad that, as someone earlier mentioned, the incidence of veil wearing is increasing - I dont know why - perhaps it is a "kick back" or maybe it is more popular. But I wish those that wear the veil woudl consider others and the wider community - particularly the deaf.
We have a wonderful mix of race and religion in this country and we are better for it.
Giving up the veil, I beleive, is one concession that could kick start a true mulitcultural society in Blackburn.
Mike Costa
says...
12:59pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Lets be honest and stop being so politically correct.
This is not a race issue. Its about living in the 21st century. We really dont need these stupid regressive and wholly inappropriate ideas in the modern world. If we did, we'd still have birching, stoning and lots of other barbaric activities. Those activities, however, are a thing of the past (at least in this country).
voiceoftheworkers
says...
12:59pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs
says...
1:02pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ChiRho
says...
1:12pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:But what does someone wearing a miniskirt say about you mebs ? Nothing really.
i disagree chihro.....im highly offended when a woman walks past me wearing a two inch skirt and exposing everything she has to the world.....i was bought up to be respectful and so were the women in our family,,,,,so lets ban this immoral way of dressing and we will then move on to suggesting women with veils should have to take them off.....
The veil says about me that I would desire the woman if she wasnt wearing it. That I find very insulting...not offensive.
Mike
says...
1:16pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Is this the reason why many Asian males pursue young non-Asian females in Blackburn, particularly in the vicinity of the Vue cinema in Audley.
DavidBurnley
says...
1:21pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Would any school allow access to a group of individuals wearing motorcycle helmets or balaclavas? I think not! In the same way, the burqa obscures the identity of the individual so that those allowing access to individuals cannot have any certainty that they are who they claim to be. It is clearly wrong for a school to allow access to individuals that could be there intent on causing trouble or harm to pupils and staff.
The school in entirely right to have and enforce this policy and those that do not want to adhere to it have freedom of choice in terms of whether they want to go into that building or not. Presumably the teacher accompanying the girls was aware of the policy in advance – one therefore has to ask did she go there intent on inflaming the situation? That kind of belligerent behaviour will serve to give no benefit to anyone.
I also think the teacher concerned has set a terrible example for the young girls she was accompanying and should be reprimanded by her superiors for doing so. On the other hand, I’d like to congratulate the girls who did comply with the policy as they demonstrate a maturity of thought and breadth of understanding that is obviously so lacking in their teacher.
One more point – Mebs, I find your posts extremely insulting. Girls do not attend school dressed as you describe in skimpy clothing – it would not be allowed. If you don’t like the way women in this country dress then don’t look – we have freedom of choice that allows individuals to express themselves. If you can’t ‘not look’ then that is an indication of the true problem – you are obviously more aware – or even tempted by – women dressing in a way you find provocative. Again, if you don’t like it and can’t stop yourself from looking and that disturbs you, then you will find a big airport just off the M60 that can take you to any number of places where your temptation levels would not be so severely tested.
mebs
says...
1:25pm Tue 30 Jun 09
King Kenny
says...
1:39pm Tue 30 Jun 09
retired one
says...
1:54pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ranimuk
says...
2:35pm Tue 30 Jun 09
l m h jones
says...
2:42pm Tue 30 Jun 09
madari
says...
2:43pm Tue 30 Jun 09
madari
says...
2:46pm Tue 30 Jun 09
madari wrote:Sorry i meant `FREEDOM OF CHOICE'
Mebs,you and i both know that the weraing of the veil is a blatant sticking of two fingers at the western culture....The Burkha belongs to medieval times and has no place in the modern world and has nothing to do with ` choice of freedom'.
AnthonyUK
says...
3:49pm Tue 30 Jun 09
spyderleg
says...
3:50pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:"If any women on this thread wish to meet them this can be arranged" exactly the point.Stop living in the middle ages and treating your women like chattels.Our women are free to choose unlike no doubt your Mother and sisters!
quite interesting to read some of the comments made by certain people on this thread. whilst we all have the right to express our views in this beautifull and wonderful country that I am so proud to be part of it is also the right of every single muslim woman to continue to wear the veil.....in a scoiety where young girls are getting pregnant, women walking about showing everything except for a 2 inch skirt and so many other immoral ways of behaviour i am so proud of these muslim women who choose to cover up from head to toe just to protect themselves from the naked eyes that are out there. Instead of having a go at these women why dont you start to integrate into our societies and get to know these wonderful human beings ......after all we are all human beings and proud to be British and lets all enjoy the wonderful country that we live in.....live and let live....and oh yeah by the way my mother and my sisters choose to wear the full veil and if any women on this thread wish to meet them then by all means this can be arranged .....
serioussam
says...
3:57pm Tue 30 Jun 09
lostforwords
says...
4:02pm Tue 30 Jun 09
masrock
says...
4:18pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Ken Shuffles wrote:Thanks for the advice you've really got me there...actually forget that!
masrock,
When your daughter asks you that question you should tell her to go ask the lady herself and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Unless of course you are a mind-reader and you think you know why each woman your daughter sees is wearing a Burkah.
Be a Man, tell your daughter to find out for herself. If she is old enough to ask the question she will understand the womans answer without Daddies empty headed and insulting interpretation.
Women in Burkahs are still allowed to answer questions as far as I know.
I will tell her to go ask but she's a little scared of them as she's five at the moment, but I will try to impart some critical thinking and self confidence to her so she can ask when she's older.
I stand my my rational, well considered opinion that they are being a bit silly. Given the onset of rickets in east Asian women due to lack of vitamin D for lack of exposure to sunlight as just one example of its silliness.
Far from being empty headed I've researched the reasons for the veil, -the Saudi funded promotion of Wahhabi interpretation of Islam- the Veil an Arabic custom - not stipulated in the Koran.
PS I'm not racist by any means, I'm all for immigration, but I am against isolationism. The veil is a barrier to integration.
And if that interpretation is offensive or insulting, so what, it doesn't make it any less true. Boybands offend me but I don't get huffy about it.
ranimuk
says...
4:34pm Tue 30 Jun 09
masrock wrote:Masrock you are spot on - this is wahabiism. The majority of women who were the veil are wahabi muslims.
Ken Shuffles wrote:Thanks for the advice you've really got me there...actually forget that!
masrock,
When your daughter asks you that question you should tell her to go ask the lady herself and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Unless of course you are a mind-reader and you think you know why each woman your daughter sees is wearing a Burkah.
Be a Man, tell your daughter to find out for herself. If she is old enough to ask the question she will understand the womans answer without Daddies empty headed and insulting interpretation.
Women in Burkahs are still allowed to answer questions as far as I know.
I will tell her to go ask but she's a little scared of them as she's five at the moment, but I will try to impart some critical thinking and self confidence to her so she can ask when she's older.
I stand my my rational, well considered opinion that they are being a bit silly. Given the onset of rickets in east Asian women due to lack of vitamin D for lack of exposure to sunlight as just one example of its silliness.
Far from being empty headed I've researched the reasons for the veil, -the Saudi funded promotion of Wahhabi interpretation of Islam- the Veil an Arabic custom - not stipulated in the Koran.
PS I'm not racist by any means, I'm all for immigration, but I am against isolationism. The veil is a barrier to integration.
And if that interpretation is offensive or insulting, so what, it doesn't make it any less true. Boybands offend me but I don't get huffy about it.
Izanears
says...
4:38pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Mohamed *;)
says...
4:44pm Tue 30 Jun 09
I am fully in support of what St Mary’s decision, however, the individuals who have refused to adhere to the schools policy have taken this out of proportion and this was the same issue some months back at Our Lady and St John’s. I am a practising Muslim and my feeling I wish to convey to some of my brothers and sisters that we live in a multi cultural society and we adapted the British system from the days our forefathers arrived. Back then no one even considered going against the law because we needed to integrate and make a living and settle in this land. St Mary’s is a Catholic College and they have their own rules and regulations which they can adapt fit for them. If you wish to adapt their rules then you send your daughters there if not you have alternatives. Why make life difficult.
Just an example, if a non muslim student wishes to attend Islamiyah School and their culture allows them to wear a skirt and not wear a headscarf, would you allow them to join the school. I remember an incident when a friend of mine who was of an Arab origin wanted her daughter to attend a local Islamic school, the daughter was wearing a skirt and the parent was allowed but the girl was refused to enter the building although she was a Muslim. It is time we changed and adapted some tolerance and don’t take things for granted and this will stop all these people pointing their fingers at the Muslims. I am sure Islam is a tolerant and an easy way of life, it is us who make it difficult for us. I rest my case.
milty
says...
4:59pm Tue 30 Jun 09
holsten pils
says...
5:31pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Tosh67
says...
5:41pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Tosh67
says...
5:50pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Mohamed *;) wrote:yeah right mo, islam tolerant and easy way of life my ar*e,get real,unfortunately your islamic extremists have stuffed that one up for your argument!
People love it don’t they when it comes to people, society and ‘Muslims’. Let’s get this straight, firstly, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and if people want to express their feelings then learn to take some knowledge on the background of the community or people. Also remember that not all people represent the religion or way of life as they may be ignorant and I feel ignorance is not an excuse so there is no need to bring in other matters to slander the Muslims. You will happy to know that currently there are millions of Expats in the Middle East who live in harmony and without any restrictions, so guys you need to get out a bit and see the real world not what the media tells you. I am fully in support of what St Mary’s decision, however, the individuals who have refused to adhere to the schools policy have taken this out of proportion and this was the same issue some months back at Our Lady and St John’s. I am a practising Muslim and my feeling I wish to convey to some of my brothers and sisters that we live in a multi cultural society and we adapted the British system from the days our forefathers arrived. Back then no one even considered going against the law because we needed to integrate and make a living and settle in this land. St Mary’s is a Catholic College and they have their own rules and regulations which they can adapt fit for them. If you wish to adapt their rules then you send your daughters there if not you have alternatives. Why make life difficult. Just an example, if a non muslim student wishes to attend Islamiyah School and their culture allows them to wear a skirt and not wear a headscarf, would you allow them to join the school. I remember an incident when a friend of mine who was of an Arab origin wanted her daughter to attend a local Islamic school, the daughter was wearing a skirt and the parent was allowed but the girl was refused to enter the building although she was a Muslim. It is time we changed and adapted some tolerance and don’t take things for granted and this will stop all these people pointing their fingers at the Muslims. I am sure Islam is a tolerant and an easy way of life, it is us who make it difficult for us. I rest my case.
PwBburn
says...
6:01pm Tue 30 Jun 09
t indians/Polish in our Town and they dont seem to want to ram they religous beliefs down our throughts they just get on with there lives,perhaps they have the right idear.
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
7:07pm Tue 30 Jun 09
And what community is that Mr Mulla?
Statements like this gets everybodies back up so lets get it clear . We are in the UK not Saudi Arabia( I could say Pakistan, but most women from this country do not adhere to Wahahbism). anyway the point is this: If I was On a visit to an institution or another country I'd expect to follow their rules not moan about not being understood.
Let me give you an example: On a recent visit to a Buddist temple in Thailand, my wife was asked to cover her bare shoulders and head with a scarf by the monks. She did this with no objection because she was adhereing to the rules of the temple. Whats more, If I was to visit a mosque and I was asked to take my shoes off on entry. I would do it because I respect the rules of the mosque. I would not moan about being "misunderstood"
When in Rome Mr Mulla.............
archibold
says...
7:20pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Akki
says...
7:27pm Tue 30 Jun 09
holsten pils
says...
7:38pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs
says...
7:47pm Tue 30 Jun 09
suttydog
says...
7:56pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Tosh67
says...
8:01pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:Mebs,get your facts staight, the fastest growing religion in the world is christianity,china is the current hot spot,your comments about whether muslims will listen to your view stinks of racism and goes a long way to prove that the muslim community here in blackburn like in most areas of the uk are more racist than the English/Welsh/Scotti
the bottom line is this.....we live in a free multicultural society and everybody has the right to dress as they wish.....we dont tell non muslims to dress in a certain way and nor does anybody else have any right to tell us what to wear.....if the law allows a person to wear a certain dress then that is a right a person has living in this country.....whilst some may say we have the right to express our opinion on the subject that is a right you have no doubt....but it remains to be seen whether muslims will listen to your views...after all we have the freedom to choose what we wist to do.....as it stands we follow our religion and also follow the rules of this country until it tells us otherwise.......also rather than just going off what the media say why dont u get to know these people and ask them why they wish to wear the veil or even read up on our religion....after all its a fact that islam is the fasting growing religion in the world......but then again you also have the right not to.....if you choose ....
sh/Irish white natives, so grow up,get off your soap box and INTEGRATE without you religious chip on your shoulder!or if you dont like the uk go elsewhere like Tibet/China or anywhere else that has cushy welfare/education/de
mocratic values like we do in the UK.
Kev
says...
8:08pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Be careful what you wish for, you probably aren't half as smart, or as capable as you think
Kev
says...
8:08pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Be careful what you wish for, you probably aren't half as smart, or as capable as you think
ChiRho
says...
9:33pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:mebs
the bottom line is this.....we live in a free multicultural society and everybody has the right to dress as they wish.....we dont tell non muslims to dress in a certain way and nor does anybody else have any right to tell us what to wear.....if the law allows a person to wear a certain dress then that is a right a person has living in this country.....whilst some may say we have the right to express our opinion on the subject that is a right you have no doubt....but it remains to be seen whether muslims will listen to your views...after all we have the freedom to choose what we wist to do.....as it stands we follow our religion and also follow the rules of this country until it tells us otherwise.......also rather than just going off what the media say why dont u get to know these people and ask them why they wish to wear the veil or even read up on our religion....after all its a fact that islam is the fasting growing religion in the world......but then again you also have the right not to.....if you choose ....
You may have the freedom to choose but that does not mean you should go out of your way to antagonise. The veil is divisive, its intention is to prevent social mixing and its main function hinders communication making it difficult if not impossible to "get to know these people"
As non muslims the majority see the wearing of the veil as inappropriate for reasons of security, misogyny, and communication.
As I said earlier, if I was deaf how would I go about conversing with a wearer of the veil ?
The instance of veil wearing is sadly on the increase and does nothing to promote islam. Where is the compromise ? What is so wrong with the head scarf ?
Back to the original point, well done St Marys and weel dont the girls for compromising. Sadly their teachers attitude leaves a lot to be desired...
ChiRho
says...
9:34pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:mebs
the bottom line is this.....we live in a free multicultural society and everybody has the right to dress as they wish.....we dont tell non muslims to dress in a certain way and nor does anybody else have any right to tell us what to wear.....if the law allows a person to wear a certain dress then that is a right a person has living in this country.....whilst some may say we have the right to express our opinion on the subject that is a right you have no doubt....but it remains to be seen whether muslims will listen to your views...after all we have the freedom to choose what we wist to do.....as it stands we follow our religion and also follow the rules of this country until it tells us otherwise.......also rather than just going off what the media say why dont u get to know these people and ask them why they wish to wear the veil or even read up on our religion....after all its a fact that islam is the fasting growing religion in the world......but then again you also have the right not to.....if you choose ....
You may have the freedom to choose but that does not mean you should go out of your way to antagonise. The veil is divisive, its intention is to prevent social mixing and its main function hinders communication making it difficult if not impossible to "get to know these people"
As non muslims the majority see the wearing of the veil as inappropriate for reasons of security, misogyny, and communication.
As I said earlier, if I was deaf how would I go about conversing with a wearer of the veil ?
The instance of veil wearing is sadly on the increase and does nothing to promote islam. Where is the compromise ? What is so wrong with the head scarf ?
Back to the original point, well done St Marys and well done the girls for compromising. Sadly their teachers attitude leaves a lot to be desired...
abdullah
says...
9:34pm Tue 30 Jun 09
abdullah
says...
9:41pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ChiRho
says...
9:42pm Tue 30 Jun 09
abdullah wrote:Genius
Boring,boring change the god **** record,its same all crap from the moaning brigade.Tell you what if you dont like it move to Turkey and yes France seems to be on the way to banning burkha,go live with the French.
If you dont want to debate why bother wasting your time ?
If you offered anything constructive it would help but that is obviously beyond you.
abdullah
says...
9:44pm Tue 30 Jun 09
etc etc yeah why not.........
ChiRho
says...
9:48pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Thats the point wearing the burkha isolates women socially.
"As for the college when they found out their was a visit from an Islamic girls schools were they expecting glamour babes???"
Probably not, but perhaps students wearing headscarves...
"Why didnt the college specify their policy on the veil before the visit."
I dont know - perhaps it does - do you know for a fact that it doesnt?
"Wheres the christian tolerance here."
Dont make me laugh...its all around you - you can after all wear the burkha.
If you want lack of tolerance you need to look to muslim countries.
abdullah
says...
9:54pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ChiRho
says...
10:01pm Tue 30 Jun 09
And please don't play the "racist" card it smacks of laziness
Discussing the pros and cons of clothing is not being intolerant...
Intolerance is being shot dead for protesting about your government.
Intolerance is being stoned to death when you commit adultery.
Intolerance is being hanged for being homosexual.
Intolerance it being beaten when you allow yourself to be raped.
Intolerance is blowing up women and children in a crowded market just because they are different.
Tolerance is one thing this country is good at.
ChiRho
says...
10:03pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ring1234
says...
10:05pm Tue 30 Jun 09
St Mary's is a Catholic College, if muslim women wear the veil for religious reasons why do they opt to attend a college of a different faith? Why not go to an Islamic college?
As for modesty, does wearing a face full of make-up under the veil and a bejewelled niquab count as modest?
If you wish to attend St Mary's, adhere to the rules. SIMPLE.
abdullah
says...
10:11pm Tue 30 Jun 09
NadeemK
says...
10:13pm Tue 30 Jun 09
With regards to the burkha, well people should realise that in the quran there is no such thing as burkha and in hajj in Mecca the women there are showing their faces and praying alongside(not literally)men.
The quraan preaches men and women to dress modestly. The Burkha is just an extreme interpretation
abdullah
says...
10:17pm Tue 30 Jun 09
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
10:17pm Tue 30 Jun 09
abdullah wrote:Hey I'm sorry if that went over your head. I actually meant it in a modern sense ie. Keep their customs, rules and laws. These are things that are well developed in this country and have helped to make it first world nation. I suggest that if you don't like it maybe you can take a little of your own medicine and DO ONE!
When in Rome do what the Romans do which is rape,pillage,incest, etc etc yeah why not.........
abdullah
says...
10:21pm Tue 30 Jun 09
NadeemK
says...
10:24pm Tue 30 Jun 09
Tosh67 wrote:Its such ashame that Tosh67 has to have a dig at the religeon of Islam. Unfortunately theres alot of bigots and racists within my religeon who condone violence and terrorism as the real religeon very similar to the catholic church sanctioning the holocaust of the people of the Americas at the hands of the conquistadors. Lets not forget the violent rhetoric of the evangelicals and Southern Baptists in the States.
Mohamed *;) wrote:yeah right mo, islam tolerant and easy way of life my ar*e,get real,unfortunately your islamic extremists have stuffed that one up for your argument!
People love it don’t they when it comes to people, society and ‘Muslims’. Let’s get this straight, firstly, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and if people want to express their feelings then learn to take some knowledge on the background of the community or people. Also remember that not all people represent the religion or way of life as they may be ignorant and I feel ignorance is not an excuse so there is no need to bring in other matters to slander the Muslims. You will happy to know that currently there are millions of Expats in the Middle East who live in harmony and without any restrictions, so guys you need to get out a bit and see the real world not what the media tells you. I am fully in support of what St Mary’s decision, however, the individuals who have refused to adhere to the schools policy have taken this out of proportion and this was the same issue some months back at Our Lady and St John’s. I am a practising Muslim and my feeling I wish to convey to some of my brothers and sisters that we live in a multi cultural society and we adapted the British system from the days our forefathers arrived. Back then no one even considered going against the law because we needed to integrate and make a living and settle in this land. St Mary’s is a Catholic College and they have their own rules and regulations which they can adapt fit for them. If you wish to adapt their rules then you send your daughters there if not you have alternatives. Why make life difficult. Just an example, if a non muslim student wishes to attend Islamiyah School and their culture allows them to wear a skirt and not wear a headscarf, would you allow them to join the school. I remember an incident when a friend of mine who was of an Arab origin wanted her daughter to attend a local Islamic school, the daughter was wearing a skirt and the parent was allowed but the girl was refused to enter the building although she was a Muslim. It is time we changed and adapted some tolerance and don’t take things for granted and this will stop all these people pointing their fingers at the Muslims. I am sure Islam is a tolerant and an easy way of life, it is us who make it difficult for us. I rest my case.
My post is noway a dig at Christianity as I have many really nice Christian friends and I really appreciate their sincerity and love
ChiRho
says...
10:25pm Tue 30 Jun 09
abdullah wrote:My point is abdullah that discussing the burkha is not being intolerant.
Respect to you CHiRho hope ive spelt that right.What has the injustices of some nations got to do with m,a british born muslim.Am i being brushed with the same brush.Do you want me to answer the problems that some nations have with their inhumane policies??? Strange that the countries you are referring to were part of the British raj,maybe youre forefathers have the answers to youre questions.
My examples of intolerance merely emphasise that fact and that you are overreacting.
So far, other than "because we can", I dont think anyone has put forward a argument for the burkha ?
mebs
says...
10:27pm Tue 30 Jun 09
NadeemK
says...
10:47pm Tue 30 Jun 09
I really think people need to read up into the historical and cultural aspects of the veil to fully understand the issue
I also think that people like Salim Mulla and this silly teacher are creating alot of resentment towards muslims within the UK.
Im a muslim and Salim Mulla sure does not represnt me.
ChiRho
says...
10:58pm Tue 30 Jun 09
I agree that the incidence of veil wearers appears to be increasing and this is indeed increasing resentment within the UK. I just wish people like Salim Mulla could see the bigger picture. If the veil was to be dropped voluntarily this would send a huge message to the UK...
What a compromise that would be - and all the racists would be lost for words !!!
ChiRho
says...
11:08pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:mebs
well said abdullah...at least somebody with a bit of intelligence and education is on here....the bottom line is this....the women who choose to wear the burkha should be allowed to remain in the burkha.....and im sorry guys but its the british government who themselves allow this great choice....and no we will not go elsewhere as we are here to stay.....just like you are going nowhere....
Im sorry you appear to be intransigent in your position. Yet you do not offer any positives from it, only that the burkha is worn because it can be.
I can do a lot of things "becasue I can" but if I thought it offended anyone I wouldnt...
Doing something just because you can, and knowing it is causing offence is hardly a good position to start from.
mebs
says...
11:22pm Tue 30 Jun 09
ChiRho
says...
11:30pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote::)
chihro unfortunately for you my great friend and due to your obvious lack of intelligence in the religion arena i have had to resort to stone cold answers such as because we can as anything more intellectual than that will be lost in your tiny brain....
If you want to quit then just say so...
I wont mind.
Its good of you to recognise you have no argument.
Woody Riversider
says...
11:39pm Tue 30 Jun 09
I would just say 'Respect' to the girls who removed the veil's.
Done purely on the basis of what is correct for that particular occasion. After all they wish for the best education on offer in the area!!
I doubt very much the College is going to enforce restrictions on these particular students outside of College.
This debate/argument as to stay within context.
Making it something else is pure folly.
madari
says...
11:41pm Tue 30 Jun 09
madari
says...
11:47pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:Mebs, enough of your high horse mentality and show a bit more respect to the western way of life and country which has given your parents a decent living standard and provided free education for you and yours and dont be so narrow minded.
well said abdullah...at least somebody with a bit of intelligence and education is on here....the bottom line is this....the women who choose to wear the burkha should be allowed to remain in the burkha.....and im sorry guys but its the british government who themselves allow this great choice....and no we will not go elsewhere as we are here to stay.....just like you are going nowhere....
madari
says...
11:52pm Tue 30 Jun 09
mebs wrote:Madari Says:
chihro unfortunately for you my great friend and due to your obvious lack of intelligence in the religion arena i have had to resort to stone cold answers such as because we can as anything more intellectual than that will be lost in your tiny brain....
mebs for your information i was reading the Koran before your father even married your mother so dont come on here making out that you are an authority on islam because you are not.
Do you know what MADARI means?....thought not
retired one
says...
12:05am Wed 1 Jul 09
Just think of all the germs from coughing, sneezing and even the dampness just from breathing on it.
Major Tom
says...
12:54am Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs
says...
1:31am Wed 1 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
7:35am Wed 1 Jul 09
Most people in this country do not want burkas etc to be worn , we are not islamic and thankfully never will be despite how hard the moslems try as more and more people are speaking out about it and yes it should be when in rome do as the romans but not abdullahs version that he quotes " murder / rape etc" lets face it if we applied that to moslems we could have murder / terrorism / paedophilia/ bigamy etc .
easymonies
says...
8:25am Wed 1 Jul 09
abdullah wrote:I see you have been to a muslim country then. Muslims are the biggest culprits of the 3 evils you have mentioned and an extra one.
When in Rome do what the Romans do which is rape,pillage,incest,
etc etc yeah why not.........
Rape/Pillage/Murder. the desert is a big place and it is a known fact amongst the indigenous population and ex-pats in Saudi Arabia, there are a lot of bodies buried in there from poor defenseless women. As for incest. A majority of the diseases carried by Muslims are hereditary through inner breading (Incest). Read your own history. Especially about your own prophet.
madari
says...
8:47am Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs wrote:What a laugh,you are not defending your religion, you are literally bringing Islam into disrepute.
madari u just keep ur opinions to urself.....everybody has the right to defend ones religion or beliefs and i will come on this thread and say as i wish....and just for your information i wish and hope you are fluent in arabic as its a very very delicate language pal....
And as for my arabic i read the Koran in Englishunlike yourself as you are neither Anglo nor an arab but a descendant and convert from a Hindu religionreligion ...need i say more?
bgrs
says...
9:20am Wed 1 Jul 09
DavidBurnley
says...
9:35am Wed 1 Jul 09
"but it remains to be seen whether muslims will listen to your views...after all we have the freedom to choose what we wist to do.....as it stands we follow our religion and also follow the rules of this country until it tells us otherwise......."
I interpret that that you will abide by the laws of the UK (ie the country where you live) until your religion tells you otherwise. Does this mean you will break the law of the land if your religion doesn't concur with it? Please give some examples - I'm sure the police would read with interest!
Mike Costa
says...
9:53am Wed 1 Jul 09
As a sweeping generalisation, but a truth non the less, our Muslim population disregard any law that they dont like. Just watch them drive past you. At least half will be on a mobile phone
ChiRho
says...
10:08am Wed 1 Jul 09
Mike Costa wrote:Respectfully Mike, that is a sweeping generalisation. No more or lees likely for a non-muslim. It is just your preconceived idea that highlights the instance of "muslims" using mobiles whilst you diregard non-muslims subconciously...
Mike Costa says:
As a sweeping generalisation, but a truth non the less, our Muslim population disregard any law that they dont like. Just watch them drive past you. At least half will be on a mobile phone
By the way how do you know they are muslim ?
bgrs
says...
10:19am Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs
says...
10:54am Wed 1 Jul 09
ine i love this govenment as it gives equal rights to all......as for u madari or madaras (chicken in this case) i am very very fluent in arabic and i doubt you are......labour are the best
DavidBurnley
says...
10:58am Wed 1 Jul 09
And you are right that women are allowed to were the veil in this country if they wish. What you fail to see is that institutions, like schools for example, are also at liberty to implement security processes to safeguard the people using them. That's exactly whta this school did yet you seem to think some people shouldbe exempt from those - can you explain how that is equal rights for all please?
mebs
says...
12:23pm Wed 1 Jul 09
anniehargs
says...
12:49pm Wed 1 Jul 09
DavidBurnley
says...
1:13pm Wed 1 Jul 09
I have not said that burqa should be banned.
I have not said the wearing of the veil should be banned.
At no time have I accused you of breaking the law.
I am concerned that you appear to put the following of a religious book above adherance to the laws of the country in which you live as a guest - thank you for the confirmation that this is not the case.
Thank you also for confirming that you uphold the right of the school in this instance to have a security process that forbids the wearing of any headgear that obscures the face.
Thank you also for confirming thatyou agree that the school was right to enforce this process even if it means denying entry to an individual who beligerently refuses to comply with it.
You have just agreed with the majority of posters on this topic. You see, it's not so difficult to think and act like the people in your adopted country if you try just a little bit, is it?
mebs
says...
2:20pm Wed 1 Jul 09
DavidBurnley
says...
2:31pm Wed 1 Jul 09
I called you a 'guest' because you said yourself that you have lived in the UK for over 30 years. That leads me to assume you were not born in the UK. If that assumption is incorrect that I apologise for the misinterpretation but would suggest you make your posts clearer to avoid that in future.
I have to say that your assumption that I am some kind of fascist is laughable at best - however, you are entitiled to think what you like - it's a free country.
Just for the record, the only group of people I have issue with is those that freeload off the rest of us. That, I believe is a problem that transcends age, race, colour, religion and gender.
spyderleg
says...
3:00pm Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs wrote:You follow the laws of this country untill your religion tells you otherwise,do you?Get one thing straight when your religion starts telling you to disobey the laws of this country that's the time when you and others of your ilk will be moved from this country once and for all...don't think it can't happen because it can.Then you can discuss your "RIGHTS" with your new host Nation at your leasure...if they allow it!
the bottom line is this.....we live in a free multicultural society and everybody has the right to dress as they wish.....we dont tell non muslims to dress in a certain way and nor does anybody else have any right to tell us what to wear.....if the law allows a person to wear a certain dress then that is a right a person has living in this country.....whilst some may say we have the right to express our opinion on the subject that is a right you have no doubt....but it remains to be seen whether muslims will listen to your views...after all we have the freedom to choose what we wist to do.....as it stands we follow our religion and also follow the rules of this country until it tells us otherwise.......also rather than just going off what the media say why dont u get to know these people and ask them why they wish to wear the veil or even read up on our religion....after all its a fact that islam is the fasting growing religion in the world......but then again you also have the right not to.....if you choose ....
mazx4
says...
3:05pm Wed 1 Jul 09
2) main post office near darwen street bridge ,sign take helmats off ,o but not take veils of like hell (they get away with it again.
3) how the hell do we know there a women look at the male in a school who acted like a female teacher for 10 years was it .NO BAN THE BLOODY VEILS .YOUR IN ENGLAND NOW NOT PAKISTAN ,OR INDIA ETC
mazx4
says...
3:16pm Wed 1 Jul 09
bgrs
says...
5:03pm Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs wrote:I think you'll find you're wrong there. There is something we can do about it, recent election results should have shown you that.
dave did u say that i am a guest here.....u smell like the BNP......MAYBE U SHOULD OFFICIALLY DECLARE YOUR ALLEGIANCE AND SUPPORT FOR THIS FASCIST AND RACIST PARTY.....I am not a guest pal Im british and if youve got a problem with that then tough.....Comments like that clealy show just what you really think about British muslims....live with it pal and accept it...we are here and theres newt you can do about it.....
holsten pils
says...
5:27pm Wed 1 Jul 09
And where does all the accusations of racism / fascism etc come from , yes the scared parties that dare not address the things the BNP does and the unions that support these parties, it is all a massive pr exercise to convince the very gullable that the BNP are the bad guys , whereas they are the party that will save Britain from the ever increasing tide of islam / asylum seekers / immigration and those true Brits know these things have to be stopped asap .
abdullah
says...
5:37pm Wed 1 Jul 09
kenbro
says...
5:56pm Wed 1 Jul 09
If your mother and father were muslim, you are most likely a muslim, but if your parents were jewish, guess what, you would probably be jewish. Same goes for christians, hindus, etc.
In older times, a veil was a total face covering that you could actually see through. This veil that we are now discussing is more like a mask, as it effectively masks the face.
If a man wore such a mask he would probably be approached by the police, and would not be allowed into many banks and businesses.
Yes, your god put **** in men's hearts, but he also put in the ability to control yourself. So you are saying that women have to wear a mask because men cannot control their passions ?
If you have a right to wear a mask, I have the right to feel uncomfortable in your presence.
Miss Anonymous
says...
6:17pm Wed 1 Jul 09
mebs
says...
7:29pm Wed 1 Jul 09
anon142
says...
7:39pm Wed 1 Jul 09
NadeemK
says...
7:45pm Wed 1 Jul 09
People really need to delve into islamic history to get a grip of events.
Some muppets might diss western culture but the early years of Islam were littered with wars amongst sunnis and shias as well as the Kharijites and mutazailites etc etc and lets not forget the slave trade which the prophet encouraged its abolition and the concubinage issue.
The worlds moved on a heck of alot since those early days of Islam and Islam is a progressive religion because if it want then there would still be slavery, concubinage and temporary marriages predominant within the religon
anon142
says...
8:35pm Wed 1 Jul 09
The world has moved on a lot so it is impressive that people can still be strong in their faiths (Islam, Christianity, or whatever it may be), so many hundreds of years later, and yet still live in the UK and mix with people of other faiths.
So let's not argue, we should use this forum as a place to learn from each other and see things from other people's points of view...for example, a non-muslim person may THINK the veil is forced onto women, or that Muslim women are oppressed, and this is as good a place as any to learn that some muslim women have chosen to wear the veil (yes, I admit, others may have been pressured into it...but not all) and feel a lot more free because of their religion than they would otherwise do so.
NadeemK
says...
8:52pm Wed 1 Jul 09
anon142 wrote:A very very good coherent and fantastic post. I think this probably is the best message I have read on this thread.
Just for the record I didn't diss the Western culture at all - I am British through and through, but also have balanced that Britishness with my religion. I run my own business and have a good mixture of both Muslim and non-muslim clients (my main non-Muslim client being Blackburn Cathedral)... My friends are also a good balanced mix of Muslim and Non..That is what I call integration...that, and being able to say hello to strangers on the street, regardless of race or culture...to me, Britain is home but Islam is my religion and I am proud of this country and the fact that they are lenient towards us - especially when I see other countries, even so-called Muslim countries, who make it difficult for people to practice their religion, whatever their religion may be. That is the great thing about the UK, that we are all free to practice (and dress) as we wish, so long as we adhere to the country's laws.
The world has moved on a lot so it is impressive that people can still be strong in their faiths (Islam, Christianity, or whatever it may be), so many hundreds of years later, and yet still live in the UK and mix with people of other faiths.
So let's not argue, we should use this forum as a place to learn from each other and see things from other people's points of view...for example, a non-muslim person may THINK the veil is forced onto women, or that Muslim women are oppressed, and this is as good a place as any to learn that some muslim women have chosen to wear the veil (yes, I admit, others may have been pressured into it...but not all) and feel a lot more free because of their religion than they would otherwise do so.
anon142
says...
8:55pm Wed 1 Jul 09
mazx4 wrote:Sorry, just for the record, Muslims wouldn't get more money for marrying 3 women because marrying more than 1 woman is against British law, so obviously the Government aren't going to pay you more money for more wives.DUH. Also, Council Tax does NOT go towards the building of new mosques - any mosques that are built are done purely out of money raised by the local community - and if people wish to put their money towards a new mosque, that is entirely up to them. and as for the rest of the accusations, I agree with some of them, that's just stupid idiots abusing the system, and is nothing to do with religion whatsoever, and is offensive to hard working tax-payers, such as myself. Religion doesn't come into the issue. and is should be idiots like that on trial, not women who mind their own business, dress modestly and try to live a peaceful life.
there are a few people i agree with the TRUE english are letting these people rule our country come on LOOK AROUND YOU ,white women are turning to the muslims ,not sure if all the money means anything ,but come on christians will become muslim soon with the way its going and well as for marrieges well muslims can marrie 3 women just becouse thats there religion no sorry its a way to screw more money , look at the fact we even bloody pay for the mosques out of our council tax well a % were do they pay for our churches eh the ones who back the muslims well you realy need to have your head sorted why do you think our car insurance has gone up look at they way they sit seats right back ,they aim for you and o half are insured in a family or friends name thats why they get let off
NadeemK
says...
9:01pm Wed 1 Jul 09
madari
says...
10:29pm Wed 1 Jul 09
Religion is no more than a belief,so keep your beliefs to your selves instead of imposing it on others by wearing the veil.
abdullah
says...
10:39pm Wed 1 Jul 09
NadeemK
says...
10:45pm Wed 1 Jul 09
madari wrote:I for one am not against the wearing of the veil and as a catholic college St Marys was right in its capacity to ban the teacher from wearing the full veil into the college just as an Islamic school would ban a christian wearing a crucifix into its premises.
The wearing of the veil also allows a woman to be unhygenic ie she never needs to have a wash as all is covered up.
Religion is no more than a belief,so keep your beliefs to your selves instead of imposing it on others by wearing the veil.
With regards to the veil in Islam, well Ive already stated that Islam promotes modesty and the full veil is just a very extreme conservative interpretation of modesty by the extreme wahabbi/deobandi sects within Islam.
A glance throughout islamic history and the way in which hajj/umrah as well as women and men praying in the same mosque in Medina and Mecca totally refutes the idea of the full veil. The purdah was practiced by the prophets women-folk at home who would be segregated from the men who came to visit the prophet at his house. There was also the fact Aisha led an army against Ali at the battle of Camel as well as the Zayd/Aisha incident and countless others.
I feel that if women wish to wear the veil and whatever reasons they have to wear them then I feel we should respect their right to do so.
Whether the wearing of the veil is a health hazard is another issue and its the women themselves that are responsible fot eh actions they take.
anon142
says...
11:04pm Wed 1 Jul 09
madari
says...
11:33pm Wed 1 Jul 09
abdullah wrote:full marks for knowng the meaning of Madari, actually it means a Snake tamer.
Madari why such ignorance,such malice towards people of faith.Have you personally lost youre faith becoming an atheist,who totally detests any form of religion,or is it that inside you have that guilt that you yearn to come back to the fold.Youre name in Indian means an animal tamer,who catch and train monkeys to perform at fairs and carnivals.
I have no malice neither am Ignorant,in my opinion no one needs to advertise their faith as these vailed women do...lets face it ,it is a walking prison.
Neither am i an athiest and what fold are you referring to?
madari
says...
11:36pm Wed 1 Jul 09
anon142
says...
12:46am Thu 2 Jul 09
Anyway, you missed the point completely ...I didn't say girls in skimpy clothing stink (and by the way, I have nothing against girls in skimpy clothing, they are just girls wearing what they want to wear, good for them if they have no religious rules to abide by)- what I said was that they don't shower in public, and neither does anyone else who's 'normal'..Showering or bathing is done at home, in private, and these women who wear veils only wear them out of the home, not in the home, so are free to shower in the home as they wish. But I take it you still don't have the capacity to understand that and will once again resort to stupid childish insults.
anon142
says...
1:00am Thu 2 Jul 09
matureoak
says...
2:25am Thu 2 Jul 09
Secondly, I feel that St mary's College was right in enforcing their policy and the teacher that walked out did what she thought was right. No rules were broken on either side.
People who are commenting that women who wear the veil are oppressed are totally wrong. I know quite a few WHITE muslim women who wear the veil - they are not married to asian men and they still choose to wear the veil. Can anyone answer that one?
This is a free country the last time I checked and a woman can wear what she pleases. If she must show her face for security purposes, she can do so. The "cant communicate with a veil" story is also nonsense. This thread of 139 replies is proof of that.
DavidBurnley
says...
9:07am Thu 2 Jul 09
But the following comment from Nadeem concerns me: "St Marys was right in its capacity to ban the teacher from wearing the full veil into the college just as an Islamic school would ban a christian wearing a crucifix into its premises."
Now I think Nadeem basically speaks a lot of sense and shows that people from other cultures and religions can integrate into the local population. However, the reason the veil was banned at St mary's is for security reasons not religious ones. I'm pretty sure they would not ban a headscarf or other religios dress if it did not obscure the identity of the wearer. However, the quote above clearly shows that a Christian would be denied entry to a mosque if wearing a christian symbol. That would not obsure their identity nor would it be any kind of security risk. That decision would be taken purely for religious reasons and shows a basic disprespect for other cultures and religions and a non-willingness to learn about or integrate with people who believe something different than they do.
Who's the more tolerant in that scenario then?
ChiRho
says...
12:37pm Thu 2 Jul 09
matureoak wrote:Matureoak
Hi All. First of all, I am a muslim and asian of Indian roots. As a resident of Blackburn, seeing the way alot of asians behave in public, it I was white, I would be a racist! Just by looking at how alot of asians drive their cars in an discourteous manner makes me feel that way. And there are the taxi drivers and benefit fiddlers - I do feel that the white population have a right to feel resentment towards asians for the way they behave. Secondly, I feel that St mary's College was right in enforcing their policy and the teacher that walked out did what she thought was right. No rules were broken on either side. People who are commenting that women who wear the veil are oppressed are totally wrong. I know quite a few WHITE muslim women who wear the veil - they are not married to asian men and they still choose to wear the veil. Can anyone answer that one? This is a free country the last time I checked and a woman can wear what she pleases. If she must show her face for security purposes, she can do so. The "cant communicate with a veil" story is also nonsense. This thread of 139 replies is proof of that.
I agree with most of your points, but saying proof of the 139 replies in this thread is proof veiled people can communicate is weak in the extreme - unless of course all veiled women only communicate on the internet...?
As I mentioned earlier what about the deaf - how can they engage with a veiled person ?
Also, no real reason for wearing the veil has been given. Pehaps one that wearing a veil makes you less self concious about how you look is in part a reason, but a dose of self confidence would probalbly be better in the long run.
I still think that to stop wearing the veil voluntarilty would be a wonderful step in the right direction particularly as it is obvious that it only serves to antagonise the majority.
Oh and all taxi drivers are, by definition, all ungrateful so and sos when they get behind the wheel. It has nothing to do with race or religion - its part of the job description.
remf
says...
1:33pm Thu 2 Jul 09
I personally feel they should be banned from wearing it when driving. Otherwise its each to their own.
As I personally feel offended by obese women wearing crop tops. Its disgusting seeing all that flab hang out! As soon as its remotely warm they decide to show all to everyone.
I have to eat at some point in the day. But its hard to when you have a horrific image burned in to the back of your retinas.
Why is no one complaining about that.
Oh yes its a choice. Just like the women in Burkhas!
abdullah
says...
1:40pm Thu 2 Jul 09
icitors etc etc.Businesses where we contribute to the state through taxes.IUts just ignorant people like yourselves reading right wing newspapers who have been fed anti-muslim lies are brainwashed into beleiving the us and them phiosophy.
DavidBurnley
says...
1:47pm Thu 2 Jul 09
Often it's about really seeing how your own actions are interpreted by others and then you might start to see where the root of problems really lie.
BRFCBrabant
says...
3:16pm Thu 2 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
3:16pm Thu 2 Jul 09
DavidBurnley
says...
3:39pm Thu 2 Jul 09
However, I can see from other posts on this thread that this issue does ingnite a great deal of feeling on both sides so perhaps there should be a debate and a solution found. Without that step being taken, it is highly likely that tensions will continue to increase - and we have all seen what results from that in the past!
Personally, I couldn't care less whether someone does wear a veil or not - I don't know them as individuals so have no feelings for them one way or the other.
However, I do feel that people bringing other ways and cultures to this country do have an obligation to the local population to make an effort to conformto local customs and ways. By that I mean learn the language, respect the local religion and customs etc. Obviously, it's a case of give and take if we are to live together peacefully but it is the commonly held view that certain sections of the population receive preferential treatment from the authorities and are allowed to 'get away with' things that the rest of us would be punished for. I've had racist abuse shouted at me if I stray into the 'wrong' parts of Burnley, for example. However, reporting such behaviour results in inaction from the police so people have stopped reporting it.
That clearly breeds resentment. Things clearly are not good at the minute and we have a long way to go to change that. It just seems a shame that some sections of the community appear to want their cake and eat it and are able to hide behind the race card in order to achieve it.
To resolve that situation, shouldn't we all be working together?
holsten pils
says...
5:00pm Thu 2 Jul 09
G I MOZZO
says...
5:16pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs
says...
6:05pm Thu 2 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
6:34pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs , since when do British people go to spain etc and try to change their culture etc , parts of our country look like we are being taken over and obviously the indigenous Brits do not want to see this so why should we put up with it.
I see no one can answer why moslems can keep a veil on yet bikers / hoodies cannot , other than they are mossies and no one in power dare say owt to them.
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
7:07pm Thu 2 Jul 09
abdullah wrote:WHAT ARE YOU SAYING.........I SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY OF MY BIRTH ???
Niceonesunshine on youre bike sunshine maybe you could do one to one of the Brit colonies like Costa del sol,im sure youll find a chippy to youre taste.This is the best nation in the world its just being undermined by lazy chavs
IF I'D HAVE SAID THIS TO YOU I'D BE BRANDED A RACIST.
YOU HORRIBLE LITTLE OAF. IS IT ANY WONDER THAT THE DISGUSTING BNP ARE GETTING POWER WITH IGNORANT COMMENTS LIKE THIS???
WHATSMORE, I FIND IT AMAZING THAT THE 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' CENSORS HAVE DELETED MANY VALID COMMENTS ON THIS BOARD AND LEFT YOUR VILE RACIST COMMENTS UNTOUCHED. SHAME ON YOU LET
mebs
says...
7:19pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs
says...
7:29pm Thu 2 Jul 09
xrjxmon
says...
7:51pm Thu 2 Jul 09
How handy to get a brainy friend (either male or female) to turn up and sit an exam behind this aham veil.
If I turned up at an exam wearing a crash helmet..I'D be kicked out.
Why should there be a difference??
holsten pils
says...
8:45pm Thu 2 Jul 09
There is no actual connection between people that dont work and the wearing of the veil these are two different stories but i do believe that asians are the people most likely not to be in employment despite labours positive racism policies that should never have been introduced " maybe some of those sat on their arses have been for jobs but never got them because they are British and white " so no favouritism there for them.Also the wearing of veils / burkas destroys any chance of intergration but the moslems know this and do not actually want to intergrate , unless of course its if they want some of our laws changing etc.
Our country our ways if they dont like it they can lump it and leave to an islamic country but then again they will not get benefits etc .
NadeemK
says...
10:29pm Thu 2 Jul 09
I have many lovely and fantastic white friends who I think the world of and love and cherish to bits and the same goes for many asian and muslim people. Theres also many a white person who feels the same way about his asian/muslim friends.
Yes its a real shame that theres some asian and muslim people who never even try and integrate within the community and I think its disgraceful.
One cant stereotype the whole asian community on the basis of a some misguided and criminal youths just as one would never stereotype the white community on the basis of white youths kicking the Warrington father Gary Newlove to death outside his home or the kicking to death of Sophie Lancaster in Bacup by some drunk youths.
Theres good and bad eggs within all communitys and its vital that thers strong focus and education to generate cordiality, peace and harmony between the different communities.
Sadly the so-called community representatives such as Salim Mulla are not the answer and infact they are detrimental to building a cohesive integrated community
abdullah
says...
10:46pm Thu 2 Jul 09
t views
holsten pils
says...
11:02pm Thu 2 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
11:06pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs
says...
11:07pm Thu 2 Jul 09
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
11:20pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs wrote:What are you saying???
in support of abdullah i think the point he is making is the fact that its the lazy people in this country that need a kick up the ****. why pick on women who choose to wear the veil....if u want to promote integration lets begin my integrating these lazy **** into a bit of work.....that would be a good start
That people with a negative opinion about Burkhas are lazy???
Whats more I'm confused around you're calling for these "lazy ****" to get work to facilitate intregation. Is this a snide comment on the high number of benefit claimants in the Asian community?
If it is your out of order and need to give your head a shake
abdullah
says...
11:29pm Thu 2 Jul 09
mebs
says...
11:53pm Thu 2 Jul 09
Saima
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8:28am Fri 3 Jul 09
I am a muslim and I agree that when one sees what ethnic minority's are able to get away with how it can get others backs up - marches on the streets, flags on eid etc etc. We all need to try and integrate, I have many white friends whom I socialise with regularly, we respect each others religion/culture/fai
th.
holsten pils
says...
7:01pm Fri 3 Jul 09
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
7:46pm Fri 3 Jul 09
abdullah wrote:No I read newspapers that publish figures on the high number of benefit claimants in ethnic communities. Bangladeshi,Pakistan
Niceonesunshine what exactly do u base youre assertion that their is a higher number of asians on benefits???Do you personally stand outside dss office and count every asian going in???Where did you get this information from plz do enlighten me,sunny
i,Nigerian and Somali communities all have high rate of claimants. It dos'nt make them lazy, like you are implying!
Have a read of saimas post pal.
It makes perfect sense.
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
7:56pm Fri 3 Jul 09
mebs wrote:what are you on about??????
nice one sunshine u need to wake up pal and get ur head seen to....u r just a jealous person who cannot bear to see asian british muslims doing well...as for my comments about integrating the lazy sods that was never aimed at those aginst the burkas....that was aimed at anyone who sits at home on benefits.....just goes to show pal that the sunshine is definately getting to you...hope it rains tomorrow otherwise ur gonna be completely lost......
Read you're posts before you press the return button.
And if you think that I'm jealous of you Mr black racist you're sadly deluded.
Leave my own country indeed....Idiot
mebs
says...
8:25pm Fri 3 Jul 09
mebs
says...
8:41pm Fri 3 Jul 09
dy ready to take up this offer? theres a great coffee shop in blackburn called the cinnamon?
Hopping mad
says...
10:58pm Fri 3 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
11:36pm Fri 3 Jul 09
ns,greeks,turks,arab
s,polish,kurds,afric
an community what a lovely multi-cultural Britain we have
mebs
says...
12:12am Sat 4 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
8:48am Sat 4 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
10:27am Sat 4 Jul 09
e,enjoy life,you might see a different world.
mebs
says...
11:02am Sat 4 Jul 09
mebs
says...
11:33am Sat 4 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
6:07pm Sat 4 Jul 09
As for miserable sod , i am not because i am happy that true Brits are finally standing up for our country and sayin f off moslems we have had enough and dont forget racism cuts both ways but there is only the BNP gets accused of it but people think it is ok 4 mossies to call us , get real the tide is turning in OUR country , pensioners fought for this country not to be taken over but it seems the country is being taken over without the war , its stopping now so be prepared to accept our ways or leave . Britain for the British NOT ! the pakistani moslems or any other mossies.
abdullah
says...
7:01pm Sat 4 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
7:32pm Sat 4 Jul 09
mebs
says...
10:26pm Sat 4 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
11:46pm Sat 4 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
1:08pm Sun 5 Jul 09
Abdullah, of course the holocaust happened , it appears you are one of those that are thick enough to believe anti BNP hype and i also know how evil hitler was but at least he did things out in the open with a war and not like your cowardly bin lard head who is a cowardly murder of innocents , i just love your comments of scum views like holsten , tell me which views are lies ?? or just facts that you cannot handle , do you really think that almost a million people that voted BNP all think the holocaust never happened or they are all nazis etc if so you are in a world of your own and obviously out of touch with reality.
The only scum in this country are the trouble causing moslems that no one wants here .
Salam aleakum !
mebs
says...
7:19pm Sun 5 Jul 09
mebs
says...
7:23pm Sun 5 Jul 09
s clay, cat stevens, yvonne ridley, jermaine jackson....and many many other people...do ur own research and make sure u not drinking holsten pills when you are.....u mite see different things
easymonies
says...
8:29am Mon 6 Jul 09
mebs wrote:Cassius clay - Fantasic boxer, punch drunk when converted.
holsten pills as for your knowledge of islam and muslims pal....if islam was such a backward religion then y is it the fastest growing religion in the world with 1.6 billion followers.....cassiu
s clay, cat stevens, yvonne ridley, jermaine jackson....and many many other people...do ur own research and make sure u not drinking holsten pills when you are.....u mite see different things
Cat Stevens - Fantastic singer - high on drugs when converted
Jermaine Jackson - Identity crisis
Yvonne Ridley - Gordie failure who has brainwashed women and boys
Mike Tyson - Rapist
Yep you have some good converts.
Hitler brainwashed people as well.
On a separate note though - I'm not a racist a word the Asian population seem to use when they can't get their point across.
mebs
says...
12:10pm Mon 6 Jul 09
easymonies
says...
9:53pm Mon 6 Jul 09
Mike Tyson tried to convert back to Christianity but was warned against it.
And as for 'this great religeon' after spending 10 years in a Muslim country I think I can comment on the religion. I actually think there are some very good points to it, but then that could be said about all religions. Each gets their own satisfaction.
The difference is that we don't have other religions forced down our throats and if we make comment are acussed of racism.
And as for why white women want to wear burka's!! I assume you are commenting on Yvonne, can't understand why she converted but she has never managed to answer the question as to why the Taliban use children as human bombs. They have a stronghold in Afganistan if memory serves me.
abdullah
says...
11:05pm Mon 6 Jul 09
ed against muslims.Youre memory has failed you beleive it or not their is a govt. in Afghanistan,and its not the taliban.
mebs
says...
11:14pm Mon 6 Jul 09
holsten pils
says...
6:38pm Tue 7 Jul 09
My knowledge of islam is quite good having lived in one if the the most islamic country there is for a couple of years " where we were not allowed to wear a cross / crucifix or even take them into the country along with the bible being banned " see how well the mossies are treated here in comparison " as for islam being backward , how you can deny this is unbelievable , so you think stoning , beheading , covering up your women etc is not backward ? and lets not forget the marrying of little girls to old men " its called paedophilia over here " but i gues the "educated " moslems in Manchester / London think this is ok as well ?? Also i think you will find that Christianity is the fastest growing religion especially in China where as of today there have been street battles with many deaths and guess whos at the heart of it ? yep the moslems .
As for the few names you mention who converted , Ali did it to escape serving in the army a great fighter in the ring but not a fighter out of it obviously , Cat Stevens has just been advertising his new album , but not under his islamic name of yousef islam as he knows not many will buy it so it suits him when he wants .
And for your information i have travelled quite a bit and lived in London as well so i know what it is like and i am also not originally from Burnley.
I have also seen the good " educated " moslems drunk and drugged up and trying to get off with white women yet when a mossie march takes place they are there pretending they are good mossies , and God forbid a white guy tries or gets off with one of their women that is when the death threats start and so called honour killings " yes it is such an amazing religion " at least with ours we do not pretend to be what we are not, you really want it both ways when it suits and as i said earlier so hypocritical , under islam you are not supposed to do drugs , alcohol , cigarettes , or have sex before marriage yet you do them all and then pretend you are good "educated " moslems , just how many of you actually stick to the moslem way of life ?? also there is a distinct6 difference between the pakistani moslems and the Indian ones , as i quoted earler how many Indian moslems have been involved in terrorism ?? and the are a distinctly nicer people , moslem or not and that i will hold my hand up to, but then again the Indians and pakistanis have a hatred of each other maybe thats why. But que sara , i dont drink through the week but i will make up for it on Saturday and i hope you and your "educated" friends enjoy a little alcohol " that none of you drink " salam aliekum pal / mate.
mebs
says...
9:39pm Tue 7 Jul 09
mebs
says...
9:58pm Tue 7 Jul 09
NadeemK
says...
11:23pm Tue 7 Jul 09
This thread has really descended into an utter farce.
holsten pils
says...
6:21pm Wed 8 Jul 09
In previous comments you mentioned "educated" moslems yet you embarrass yourself by saying all these things are ok , if you are not on drugs or as you say you do not drink as for you to believe the rubbish you have written you really should be on something to justify such backward beliefs , i also think you will see how united this country becomes when certain elements go to far , anyway i suggest you go now as your "educated" cousin is probably waiting to get married to you .
salam aleikum.
NICEONESUNSHINE
says...
6:24pm Wed 8 Jul 09
NadeemK wrote:I totally agree. There are 4 people on this board who are so moronic that they're a disgrace to mankind
Its really sad to see people insulting others religeous beliefs. This thread has really descended into an utter farce.
mebs
says...
8:58pm Wed 8 Jul 09
captainfantastic
says...
9:37pm Wed 8 Jul 09
abdullah
says...
11:18pm Wed 8 Jul 09
mebs
says...
7:34pm Thu 9 Jul 09
bluerover says...
8:15am Tue 30 Jun 09
Finally, respecting values of different religions is important. I believe St Mary's College - not on Shadsworth Road - is a Catholic College and therefore has values to be respected by other faiths. If visited a mosque or temple and was asked to remove shoes or cover my head I would do so despite not having to do this in my church. But to end on a positive, well done to the young, sensible muslim (I assume) girls who respected the principles of another organisation which are different to their own.