Bacup revamp will cause problems - traders

Alyson Barnes

Alyson Barnes

First published in News by , Reporter

TRADERS have slammed plans for a £400,000 revamp of Bacup’s historic crossroads, claiming it will create traffic issues and damage the town’s heritage.

Nearly 250 people have joined a Facebook group named ‘Save Our Bacup Fountain’, set up to protest against plans to scrap the fountain situated on the roundabout in St James’ Square.

Bacup Traders Association said its members are ‘extremely concerned’ about the changes that include changing the road layout of the town centre as part of the Townscape Heritage Initiative proposals.

David Lawrie, chairman of the traders group, said: “The traders are extremely concerned about the plans for many reasons.

“One being the maneuverability of larger vehicles through the proposed sharp bends, as well as the loss of the fountain which is part of Bacup’s heritage in what is claimed to be a conservation led project.

“We are also worried about the ‘shared space’ idea, which by the looks of it does not allow vehicles to share the same space as pedestrians, only pedestrians to have free rein on the roads, and there are no pavements as such.

“I would like to see them create a temporary new road layout using cones to prove this idea is manageable before they throw so much money at it.”

Traders are also concerned the work is predominantly taking place in an area surrounded by empty shops, with no mention of improvements in the surrounding streets that boast thriving businesses.

Today (Sat) council leader Coun Alyson Barnes pledged not to demolish the water feature and take on board people’s comments about the plans at a drop-in consultation at the library.

The council has said regeneration project would make the area more attractive to shoppers and visitors and ease congestion on the busy junctions of Burnley Road, Yorkshire Street, St James Square and Market Street.

It plans to replace street surfaces with materials more in tune with the appearance of the surrounding buildings and busy roads will be changed with the aim of allowing traffic to flow more freely.

Space to accommodate on-street activity, such as stalls, fairs and street cafes, has also been planned.

Coun Barnes said: “Nobody needs to worry about the fountain being bulldozed because it can be moved.

“We will be listening to everything people say about the plans at the consultation and taking them into consideration.”

Comments (23)

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10:23pm Sun 20 Jul 14

Doug Spencer says...

Love it! Councillor Barnes saying the fountain can be moved is only half-true. The only way that it could be moved would be in skip wagons. It is made from 60+ year old concrete sections that will crumble as soon as any attempt to move it takes place.
Rossendale Councillors should really look at every other town in Rossendale and try and cure the congestion problems in those before trying to cure a problem that does NOT exist in Bacup.
The idea of a shared space to attract shoppers and make it safer for pedestrians is an excellent idea BUT, the accidents and shops are predominately on St. James Street, Market Street and Union Street. Why not try the "shared space" idea on Market St. & St. James St.,? It actually would then, achieve the dubious goals of the project, at a cheaper cost and retain a free flow of traffic throughout the centre.
Love it! Councillor Barnes saying the fountain can be moved is only half-true. The only way that it could be moved would be in skip wagons. It is made from 60+ year old concrete sections that will crumble as soon as any attempt to move it takes place. Rossendale Councillors should really look at every other town in Rossendale and try and cure the congestion problems in those before trying to cure a problem that does NOT exist in Bacup. The idea of a shared space to attract shoppers and make it safer for pedestrians is an excellent idea BUT, the accidents and shops are predominately on St. James Street, Market Street and Union Street. Why not try the "shared space" idea on Market St. & St. James St.,? It actually would then, achieve the dubious goals of the project, at a cheaper cost and retain a free flow of traffic throughout the centre. Doug Spencer
  • Score: 5

10:29pm Sun 20 Jul 14

2 for 5p ridesagain says...

Surprise Surprise traders moaning again
Surprise Surprise traders moaning again 2 for 5p ridesagain
  • Score: -9

10:35pm Sun 20 Jul 14

Doug Spencer says...

2 for 5p ridesagain wrote:
Surprise Surprise traders moaning again
Are you a trader in Bacup or even a Bacup resident?
[quote][p][bold]2 for 5p ridesagain[/bold] wrote: Surprise Surprise traders moaning again[/p][/quote]Are you a trader in Bacup or even a Bacup resident? Doug Spencer
  • Score: 10

10:51pm Sun 20 Jul 14

mysay.com says...

Defending our accessibility, protecting our heritage......if you see that as moaning, then fine, we are moaning, will we stop?? not on your life, this is our town, these are our councillors, this is our heritage, we have the unalienable human right to defend ourselves and what we believe in!!

You wouldn't moan if you felt strongly about something??

DO you have any connections to Bacup??? if not then I don't see how this matter affects you in any way.
Defending our accessibility, protecting our heritage......if you see that as moaning, then fine, we are moaning, will we stop?? not on your life, this is our town, these are our councillors, this is our heritage, we have the unalienable human right to defend ourselves and what we believe in!! You wouldn't moan if you felt strongly about something?? DO you have any connections to Bacup??? if not then I don't see how this matter affects you in any way. mysay.com
  • Score: 12

11:28pm Sun 20 Jul 14

ToffeeGuy says...

Bacup - At the end of the longest cul-de-sac in the North West.

Has the Woolworths building been occupied since 1984? Someone get on the phone to 'The Original Factory Shop' and ask them to open up in that empty unit.

The town hasn't been the same since Juliet Bravo Foxtrot Oscar-ed.
Bacup - At the end of the longest cul-de-sac in the North West. Has the Woolworths building been occupied since 1984? Someone get on the phone to 'The Original Factory Shop' and ask them to open up in that empty unit. The town hasn't been the same since Juliet Bravo Foxtrot Oscar-ed. ToffeeGuy
  • Score: 10

11:46pm Sun 20 Jul 14

Oldmanofthemountains says...

mysay.com wrote:
Defending our accessibility, protecting our heritage......if you see that as moaning, then fine, we are moaning, will we stop?? not on your life, this is our town, these are our councillors, this is our heritage, we have the unalienable human right to defend ourselves and what we believe in!!

You wouldn't moan if you felt strongly about something??

DO you have any connections to Bacup??? if not then I don't see how this matter affects you in any way.
Ignore the imbecile - he gets off on winding people up, and never posts anything of any value.
[quote][p][bold]mysay.com[/bold] wrote: Defending our accessibility, protecting our heritage......if you see that as moaning, then fine, we are moaning, will we stop?? not on your life, this is our town, these are our councillors, this is our heritage, we have the unalienable human right to defend ourselves and what we believe in!! You wouldn't moan if you felt strongly about something?? DO you have any connections to Bacup??? if not then I don't see how this matter affects you in any way.[/p][/quote]Ignore the imbecile - he gets off on winding people up, and never posts anything of any value. Oldmanofthemountains
  • Score: 11

6:28am Mon 21 Jul 14

Loving lances says...

The Labour party promised to save Bacup baths!
They promised to save Haslingden baths.
They spent money on the silly Halo lights.

And still people believe them and vote for them!
The Labour party promised to save Bacup baths! They promised to save Haslingden baths. They spent money on the silly Halo lights. And still people believe them and vote for them! Loving lances
  • Score: 8

7:37am Mon 21 Jul 14

Something Vague says...

If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem?

This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China
If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem? This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China Something Vague
  • Score: 0

11:04am Mon 21 Jul 14

Doug Spencer says...

Something Vague wrote:
If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem?

This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China
You have made a valid point about the fountain, I have tried to get it restored previously and been thwarted now, it is beyond being restored economically. The fountain though does make a damned good flower pot and does contribute to the town centre when it is planted up. Th major concerns being raised all relate to the proposed road layout and pedestrian safety. Neither of which this scheme addresses.
Your point about increasing footfall for ALL business is a valid one so a quick look at the current situation, 2 empty properties will benefit. The visitors to the town can easily shop anywhere in Bacup rather than these two shops. Visitors already get confused with the road layout, so I am told. This scheme, as proposed, will only add to the perceived dangers and will result in more accidents / collisions and congestion.
Shared Space would be far better placed on Rochdale Road / St. James Street and Market street. This slows the traffic down, makes the actual dangerous roads safer and encourages people to shop in the centre.
Just as an aside, a jobsworth is generally used to describe Government officers and NOT community members. The other point is that Councillors and Councils are supposed to work FOR the people NOT dictate to them.
[quote][p][bold]Something Vague[/bold] wrote: If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem? This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China[/p][/quote]You have made a valid point about the fountain, I have tried to get it restored previously and been thwarted now, it is beyond being restored economically. The fountain though does make a damned good flower pot and does contribute to the town centre when it is planted up. Th major concerns being raised all relate to the proposed road layout and pedestrian safety. Neither of which this scheme addresses. Your point about increasing footfall for ALL business is a valid one so a quick look at the current situation, 2 empty properties will benefit. The visitors to the town can easily shop anywhere in Bacup rather than these two shops. Visitors already get confused with the road layout, so I am told. This scheme, as proposed, will only add to the perceived dangers and will result in more accidents / collisions and congestion. Shared Space would be far better placed on Rochdale Road / St. James Street and Market street. This slows the traffic down, makes the actual dangerous roads safer and encourages people to shop in the centre. Just as an aside, a jobsworth is generally used to describe Government officers and NOT community members. The other point is that Councillors and Councils are supposed to work FOR the people NOT dictate to them. Doug Spencer
  • Score: 6

1:53pm Mon 21 Jul 14

mysay.com says...

Something Vague wrote:
If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem?

This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China
Can you see ALL businesses in the plans...I can only see three empty buildings.......a café, a flower shop and an estate agents benefitting from any improved attractiveness, it only looks at one small corner of the town
[quote][p][bold]Something Vague[/bold] wrote: If the plans will makes the town look better and improves the footfall for ALL business, then surely what is the problem? This happens every time a council try to do something. A small minority of jobsworths throw up the heritage sign and block any progress! Its a fountain for god sake, not the great wall of China[/p][/quote]Can you see ALL businesses in the plans...I can only see three empty buildings.......a café, a flower shop and an estate agents benefitting from any improved attractiveness, it only looks at one small corner of the town mysay.com
  • Score: 3

3:52pm Mon 21 Jul 14

boynesider says...

the gardens were removed to the detriment of the town.i hope if it is pedestrianized it wont become a magnet for "cans people"(street drinkers).people still need to be able to drive through the town.a possible help to solving traffic problems would be a police presence and ticketing of illegally parked cars,e.g outside the NatWest.
the gardens were removed to the detriment of the town.i hope if it is pedestrianized it wont become a magnet for "cans people"(street drinkers).people still need to be able to drive through the town.a possible help to solving traffic problems would be a police presence and ticketing of illegally parked cars,e.g outside the NatWest. boynesider
  • Score: 3

5:58pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Owd Akela says...

Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout.
Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout. Owd Akela
  • Score: 3

6:14pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Iand61 says...

Owd Akela wrote:
Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout.
Probably because it's many a year since it had water coming out of it.
I'm getting on a bit now and have lived in the town all my life but can hardly remember Bacup's "fountain" living up to it's name.
Certainly not since I was a kid.
That said though, its a long while since the Tower of London had prisoners in it but I can't see plans to knock it down going un - noticed.
[quote][p][bold]Owd Akela[/bold] wrote: Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout.[/p][/quote]Probably because it's many a year since it had water coming out of it. I'm getting on a bit now and have lived in the town all my life but can hardly remember Bacup's "fountain" living up to it's name. Certainly not since I was a kid. That said though, its a long while since the Tower of London had prisoners in it but I can't see plans to knock it down going un - noticed. Iand61
  • Score: 7

6:14pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Iand61 says...

Owd Akela wrote:
Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout.
Probably because it's many a year since it had water coming out of it.
I'm getting on a bit now and have lived in the town all my life but can hardly remember Bacup's "fountain" living up to it's name.
Certainly not since I was a kid.
That said though, its a long while since the Tower of London had prisoners in it but I can't see plans to knock it down going un - noticed.
[quote][p][bold]Owd Akela[/bold] wrote: Oh dear. I've driven through Bacup on numerous occasions, at busy as well as quiet periods. Can't say I've noticed a fountain on the roundabout.[/p][/quote]Probably because it's many a year since it had water coming out of it. I'm getting on a bit now and have lived in the town all my life but can hardly remember Bacup's "fountain" living up to it's name. Certainly not since I was a kid. That said though, its a long while since the Tower of London had prisoners in it but I can't see plans to knock it down going un - noticed. Iand61
  • Score: 5

12:19pm Tue 22 Jul 14

HelmshoreMan2010 says...

I avoid Bacup centre at all costs, despite working own the road.

The reason I avoid it is because of the people rather than the buildings, shops, road layout or anything else like that.

Something needs to be done about the anti social behaviour before we can save the town. Why not spend money on £400,000 worth of high tech CCTV that can actually capture enough detail to send some of the scum out of town!

Fix this and the town will fix itself, it has so much potential!
I avoid Bacup centre at all costs, despite working own the road. The reason I avoid it is because of the people rather than the buildings, shops, road layout or anything else like that. Something needs to be done about the anti social behaviour before we can save the town. Why not spend money on £400,000 worth of high tech CCTV that can actually capture enough detail to send some of the scum out of town! Fix this and the town will fix itself, it has so much potential! HelmshoreMan2010
  • Score: 3

5:59pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Gently weeps says...

Perhaps we could cut the chief exec post as many bigger councils have done and this will save 140k and then add that money to help ? Councillors may support if we give me the idea !?!
Perhaps we could cut the chief exec post as many bigger councils have done and this will save 140k and then add that money to help ? Councillors may support if we give me the idea !?! Gently weeps
  • Score: 2

6:11pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Iand61 says...

HelmshoreMan2010 wrote:
I avoid Bacup centre at all costs, despite working own the road.

The reason I avoid it is because of the people rather than the buildings, shops, road layout or anything else like that.

Something needs to be done about the anti social behaviour before we can save the town. Why not spend money on £400,000 worth of high tech CCTV that can actually capture enough detail to send some of the scum out of town!

Fix this and the town will fix itself, it has so much potential!
I don't imagine for one second that "the people" referred to the entire population of the town as I'd hardly consider myself and the people I know as being anti social.
Anyway I take your point and having money spent on a place and appearing quaint and touristy means nothing with the wrong type of residents.
Look at Hebden Bridge, as someone a know who lives there said on several occasions, a drug town with a tourist problem.
[quote][p][bold]HelmshoreMan2010[/bold] wrote: I avoid Bacup centre at all costs, despite working own the road. The reason I avoid it is because of the people rather than the buildings, shops, road layout or anything else like that. Something needs to be done about the anti social behaviour before we can save the town. Why not spend money on £400,000 worth of high tech CCTV that can actually capture enough detail to send some of the scum out of town! Fix this and the town will fix itself, it has so much potential![/p][/quote]I don't imagine for one second that "the people" referred to the entire population of the town as I'd hardly consider myself and the people I know as being anti social. Anyway I take your point and having money spent on a place and appearing quaint and touristy means nothing with the wrong type of residents. Look at Hebden Bridge, as someone a know who lives there said on several occasions, a drug town with a tourist problem. Iand61
  • Score: 2

6:31pm Tue 22 Jul 14

HelmshoreMan2010 says...

My apologies, I of course didn't mean all people. I was more highlighting the fact that in my eyes the biggest problem is (some) people.
My apologies, I of course didn't mean all people. I was more highlighting the fact that in my eyes the biggest problem is (some) people. HelmshoreMan2010
  • Score: 0

8:19pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Iand61 says...

HelmshoreMan2010 wrote:
My apologies, I of course didn't mean all people. I was more highlighting the fact that in my eyes the biggest problem is (some) people.
No apologies necessary to me and I fully agree with the points you are making.
[quote][p][bold]HelmshoreMan2010[/bold] wrote: My apologies, I of course didn't mean all people. I was more highlighting the fact that in my eyes the biggest problem is (some) people.[/p][/quote]No apologies necessary to me and I fully agree with the points you are making. Iand61
  • Score: 1

1:30am Wed 23 Jul 14

her from here says...

I thought this had nothing to do with the council if that's right why is Alison Barnes having her say. Keep the Council out of it and you might stand a chance Bacup is a nice place. the problem with all of Rossendale the council not just now but over a good few years .
I thought this had nothing to do with the council if that's right why is Alison Barnes having her say. Keep the Council out of it and you might stand a chance Bacup is a nice place. the problem with all of Rossendale the council not just now but over a good few years . her from here
  • Score: 3

9:35am Wed 23 Jul 14

GAC says...

dont forget who;s got his hands on the money, andy "aint my my money" macnae . the same idiot who spent £27k on the new halo led lights last year without asking anyone or proving how many extra tourists it would bring in, and when he's asked he ignores the question.

gotta love our local councilors.
dont forget who;s got his hands on the money, andy "aint my my money" macnae . the same idiot who spent £27k on the new halo led lights last year without asking anyone or proving how many extra tourists it would bring in, and when he's asked he ignores the question. gotta love our local councilors. GAC
  • Score: 3

2:59pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Loving lances says...

Some excellent posts here, especially from Helmshore Man who wants some anti-social behaviour sorting out.. Cf
As for Alyson "Bossy Boots" Barnes and Andy McNae (not as frugal as the typical Scotsman!) well, even if they spent the whole £400k on
Candy gloss, thry would stilll elected, so what have they got to lose?
Some excellent posts here, especially from Helmshore Man who wants some anti-social behaviour sorting out.. Cf As for Alyson "Bossy Boots" Barnes and Andy McNae (not as frugal as the typical Scotsman!) well, even if they spent the whole £400k on Candy gloss, thry would stilll elected, so what have they got to lose? Loving lances
  • Score: 2

11:41am Wed 30 Jul 14

Doug Spencer says...

Have now been to Poynton and if the idea was to change my mind, it failed. The fountain square traffic layout there was designed to cure a traffic flow problem and it works!. Bacup does NOT have a traffic flow problem, but will have if the proposed new road layout goes ahead. What is GOOD about Poynton, was their "Phase 1" project. That was introducing the shared space concept on Park Lane, their major shopping street. Looks good and works really well. My thoughts are still that IF the same idea was adopted on Market street, Burnley road and St. James street, it would improve the pedestrian experience and make it safer, would give a WELCOME to Bacup feel and slow traffic a little to the desired 20 mph. THAT, in my opinion would be a better use of the public realm monies.
Have now been to Poynton and if the idea was to change my mind, it failed. The fountain square traffic layout there was designed to cure a traffic flow problem and it works!. Bacup does NOT have a traffic flow problem, but will have if the proposed new road layout goes ahead. What is GOOD about Poynton, was their "Phase 1" project. That was introducing the shared space concept on Park Lane, their major shopping street. Looks good and works really well. My thoughts are still that IF the same idea was adopted on Market street, Burnley road and St. James street, it would improve the pedestrian experience and make it safer, would give a WELCOME to Bacup feel and slow traffic a little to the desired 20 mph. THAT, in my opinion would be a better use of the public realm monies. Doug Spencer
  • Score: 0

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