Bowyer praises Blackburn Rovers fans for Hillsborough tribute

Rovers boss Gary Bowyer and Owls chief Stuart Gray lay wreaths in memory of the 96 who died at  illsborough

Rovers boss Gary Bowyer and Owls chief Stuart Gray lay wreaths in memory of the 96 who died at illsborough

First published in Sport Lancashire Telegraph: Photograph of the Author by , Blackburn Rovers reporter

BLACKBURN Rovers boss Gary Bowyer paid tribute to his side’s ‘magnificent’ supporters on the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster.

Bowyer was furious at his players for letting a two-goal lead slip in the 3-3 draw at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday.

But he had nothing but praise for both sets of fans and clubs for their conduct in a moving pre-match ceremony to remember the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives at Hillsborough during an FA Cup semi-final tie against Nottingham Forest on April 15, 1989.

Bowyer said: “Our supporters were magnificent and, having the paid respect that they did for the 96 magnificently well, they should have been going away celebrating the win.

“We haven’t been able to provide them with that and that is majorly disappointing.

“Sheffield Wednesday and their supporters need credit for the way it has gone too. I think it was marked properly.”

After an impeccably observed minute’s silence Bowyer, who was in the Nottingham Forest end as a fan on that fateful day at Hillsborough 25 years ago, joined his Owls counterpart Stuart Gray in picking up the wreaths they had placed in the centre circle and laid them in front of the Leppings Lane end, where 96 died and hundreds others were injured.

Wednesday boss Gray added: “No father, no mother, or no son or daughter should lose anybody at a football game.

“It was just a sad, sad occasion, what happened 25 years ago.

“But I think the players played their part, the fans played their part and both clubs played their part today.”

Comments (17)

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1:37pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Lancs - pensioner says...

Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season. Lancs - pensioner
  • Score: 25

4:06pm Mon 14 Apr 14

owd nick says...

So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.
So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game. Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday. owd nick
  • Score: 4

4:14pm Mon 14 Apr 14

owd nick says...

Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
[quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame. owd nick
  • Score: -1

4:19pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Super_Clarets says...

owd nick wrote:
So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.
You just can't help yourself can you.

Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley.

You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration.

You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.
[quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game. Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.[/p][/quote]You just can't help yourself can you. Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley. You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration. You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus. Super_Clarets
  • Score: -14

6:12pm Mon 14 Apr 14

owd nick says...

Super_Clarets wrote:
owd nick wrote:
So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.
You just can't help yourself can you.

Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley.

You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration.

You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.
I will reply directly to you this time, just the once.

If it had been Rovers fans jeering or Rovers fans attacking the away fans because their team had the temerity to win and spoil the party how do you think you and the rest of your troll identities would have reacted?

The answer I would provide for you is you would have been queuing up on every Rovers thread, wetting yourselves waiting for the opportunity to have a go. After the comments and chants about the death of Jack Walker, well I am sorry but Burnley fans have no moral high ground to stand on whatsoever.

This article is about the exemplary behavior of Rovers fans at Hillsborough on Saturday, I was simply making a valid comparison, on a Rovers thread by the way, regarding the boorish, mindless and violent reaction of both Boro and Burnley fans.

If you had bothered to read what I wrote you may just have noticed I didn't differentiate between the two, as far as I am concerned both sets of fans who were involved are a disgrace to football, the good name of their respective clubs and their decent fans.

Had they been Rovers fans I would have condemned them as well, perhaps even more strongly.

I could have gone on a Burnley thread about the subject, always assuming there is one and there is any interest, but I simply can't be arsed because there is nothing there that interests me in the slightest.
[quote][p][bold]Super_Clarets[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game. Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.[/p][/quote]You just can't help yourself can you. Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley. You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration. You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.[/p][/quote]I will reply directly to you this time, just the once. If it had been Rovers fans jeering or Rovers fans attacking the away fans because their team had the temerity to win and spoil the party how do you think you and the rest of your troll identities would have reacted? The answer I would provide for you is you would have been queuing up on every Rovers thread, wetting yourselves waiting for the opportunity to have a go. After the comments and chants about the death of Jack Walker, well I am sorry but Burnley fans have no moral high ground to stand on whatsoever. This article is about the exemplary behavior of Rovers fans at Hillsborough on Saturday, I was simply making a valid comparison, on a Rovers thread by the way, regarding the boorish, mindless and violent reaction of both Boro and Burnley fans. If you had bothered to read what I wrote you may just have noticed I didn't differentiate between the two, as far as I am concerned both sets of fans who were involved are a disgrace to football, the good name of their respective clubs and their decent fans. Had they been Rovers fans I would have condemned them as well, perhaps even more strongly. I could have gone on a Burnley thread about the subject, always assuming there is one and there is any interest, but I simply can't be arsed because there is nothing there that interests me in the slightest. owd nick
  • Score: 12

6:29pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Good call says...

owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
[quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces. Good call
  • Score: 5

7:20pm Mon 14 Apr 14

cboyer says...

Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
liverpool should have been given more of the stadium from what i read was that forrest got 3 stands and liverpool got 1? might be wrong but if that was the case that doesnt make sense does it?
[quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]liverpool should have been given more of the stadium from what i read was that forrest got 3 stands and liverpool got 1? might be wrong but if that was the case that doesnt make sense does it? cboyer
  • Score: 1

8:15pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Peterborough rover says...

Did they smash up there own town centre again!!
Did they smash up there own town centre again!! Peterborough rover
  • Score: 3

11:37pm Mon 14 Apr 14

owd nick says...

Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out.

What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison.

Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could.

On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous.

The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them.

The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall.

The pressure was intense.

There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria.

There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse.

I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it.

People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?
[quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out. What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison. Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could. On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous. The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them. The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall. The pressure was intense. There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria. There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse. I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it. People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone? owd nick
  • Score: 2

7:48am Tue 15 Apr 14

dangerous dave says...

Super_Clarets wrote:
owd nick wrote:
So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.
You just can't help yourself can you.

Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley.

You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration.

You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.
Your spot on this chap is an ignoramus like one or two others hillsborough was the subject for gb and rovers fans - thid idiot cant accept other east lancs clubs doing well which makes it good for our area - cant accept roverd are a team of the past thats ats why he has to come out with srupid comments no he s a bigot!!
out with the cowboys and indians
[quote][p][bold]Super_Clarets[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game. Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.[/p][/quote]You just can't help yourself can you. Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley. You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration. You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.[/p][/quote]Your spot on this chap is an ignoramus like one or two others hillsborough was the subject for gb and rovers fans - thid idiot cant accept other east lancs clubs doing well which makes it good for our area - cant accept roverd are a team of the past thats ats why he has to come out with srupid comments no he s a bigot!! out with the cowboys and indians dangerous dave
  • Score: -4

12:48pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Wild Rover says...

dangerous dave wrote:
Super_Clarets wrote:
owd nick wrote:
So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game.

Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.
You just can't help yourself can you.

Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley.

You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration.

You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.
Your spot on this chap is an ignoramus like one or two others hillsborough was the subject for gb and rovers fans - thid idiot cant accept other east lancs clubs doing well which makes it good for our area - cant accept roverd are a team of the past thats ats why he has to come out with srupid comments no he s a bigot!!
out with the cowboys and indians
And you qualify as a Rovers fan how DD???
[quote][p][bold]dangerous dave[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Super_Clarets[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: So different to Burnley and Middlesborough fans, Boro fans who disgracefully jeered and chanted through the minutes silence and Burnley fans who attacked Boro fans at the end, probably because they lost had the game. Whatever the cause of the deaths of the 96 fans 25 years ago respect was due irrespective of what happened on the day, football had to take second place on Saturday.[/p][/quote]You just can't help yourself can you. Even when the subject of the article is in reference to the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster and concerns only Blackburn Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday you still have to mention Burnley. You obviously cannot move on from the beating we gave you at Ewood Park and the fact that we are Premier League bound while you muppets are floundering in mid-table a season away from administration. You then attempt to disguise this with a veiled comment on football taking second place. Try to show a bit of decency you ignoramus.[/p][/quote]Your spot on this chap is an ignoramus like one or two others hillsborough was the subject for gb and rovers fans - thid idiot cant accept other east lancs clubs doing well which makes it good for our area - cant accept roverd are a team of the past thats ats why he has to come out with srupid comments no he s a bigot!! out with the cowboys and indians[/p][/quote]And you qualify as a Rovers fan how DD??? Wild Rover
  • Score: 1

2:53pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Good call says...

owd nick wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out.

What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison.

Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could.

On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous.

The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them.

The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall.

The pressure was intense.

There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria.

There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse.

I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it.

People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?
You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.
[quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out. What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison. Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could. On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous. The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them. The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall. The pressure was intense. There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria. There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse. I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it. People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?[/p][/quote]You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact. Good call
  • Score: 3

5:58pm Tue 15 Apr 14

DanBlackburn says...

Yes we should remember the disaster but am I alone in thinking the media and FA have driven a lot of this constant and never ending remember Hillsborough pressure (granted there is an enquiry going on).

Tell me, do you think that there would continually be minutes silences and kick offs moved and delayed if the disaster had happened to say a smaller unfashionable locally supported club, like for instance, Bradford City?

Oh hang on.

If I were a Bradford City fan I would be continually disgusted by the lack of attention the deaths of nearly 60 of their fans get given the never ending Hillsborough grief fest.
Yes we should remember the disaster but am I alone in thinking the media and FA have driven a lot of this constant and never ending remember Hillsborough pressure (granted there is an enquiry going on). Tell me, do you think that there would continually be minutes silences and kick offs moved and delayed if the disaster had happened to say a smaller unfashionable locally supported club, like for instance, Bradford City? Oh hang on. If I were a Bradford City fan I would be continually disgusted by the lack of attention the deaths of nearly 60 of their fans get given the never ending Hillsborough grief fest. DanBlackburn
  • Score: 3

7:25pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Angry From Accrington says...

Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out.

What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison.

Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could.

On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous.

The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them.

The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall.

The pressure was intense.

There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria.

There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse.

I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it.

People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?
You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.
The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued.
It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view.
I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards?
This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby.
If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims.
[quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out. What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison. Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could. On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous. The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them. The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall. The pressure was intense. There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria. There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse. I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it. People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?[/p][/quote]You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.[/p][/quote]The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued. It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view. I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards? This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby. If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims. Angry From Accrington
  • Score: -3

9:35pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Good call says...

Angry From Accrington wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out.

What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison.

Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could.

On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous.

The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them.

The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall.

The pressure was intense.

There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria.

There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse.

I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it.

People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?
You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.
The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued.
It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view.
I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards?
This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby.
If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims.
Go on then, give me an official report or study into the disaster that cites ticketless fans as a major factor in the disaster, rather than poor policing and stadium design/layout. I also ask you, what do you think about the statements of police and fans being edited to remove criticism of the policing and the emergency response and also the allegations of Special Branch spying on the families of the Hillsborough Victims.
[quote][p][bold]Angry From Accrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out. What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison. Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could. On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous. The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them. The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall. The pressure was intense. There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria. There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse. I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it. People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?[/p][/quote]You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.[/p][/quote]The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued. It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view. I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards? This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby. If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims.[/p][/quote]Go on then, give me an official report or study into the disaster that cites ticketless fans as a major factor in the disaster, rather than poor policing and stadium design/layout. I also ask you, what do you think about the statements of police and fans being edited to remove criticism of the policing and the emergency response and also the allegations of Special Branch spying on the families of the Hillsborough Victims. Good call
  • Score: 7

10:05pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Angry From Accrington says...

I deplore the Special Branch allegations as much as I deplore the hyporacy of that rogue minority of Liverpool fans. If we have to waste money on another inquest it should be an open and impartial one but this would not be politically expedient. I do not doubt that the police and ambulance staff could have responded more effectively but they did not create the crush. The gates, turnstiles and crash barriers were inanimate. The late arriving supporters were not.
And whilst on the subject of hypo racy, Liverpool fans are the absolute worst in their steadfast refusal to sit down at matches. A law initiated as a direct result of Hillsborough.
I deplore the Special Branch allegations as much as I deplore the hyporacy of that rogue minority of Liverpool fans. If we have to waste money on another inquest it should be an open and impartial one but this would not be politically expedient. I do not doubt that the police and ambulance staff could have responded more effectively but they did not create the crush. The gates, turnstiles and crash barriers were inanimate. The late arriving supporters were not. And whilst on the subject of hypo racy, Liverpool fans are the absolute worst in their steadfast refusal to sit down at matches. A law initiated as a direct result of Hillsborough. Angry From Accrington
  • Score: -1

10:17pm Tue 15 Apr 14

owd nick says...

Good call wrote:
Angry From Accrington wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Good call wrote:
owd nick wrote:
Lancs - pensioner wrote:
Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.
Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest.

He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.
Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.
I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out.

What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison.

Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could.

On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous.

The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them.

The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall.

The pressure was intense.

There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria.

There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse.

I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it.

People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?
You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.
The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued.
It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view.
I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards?
This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby.
If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims.
Go on then, give me an official report or study into the disaster that cites ticketless fans as a major factor in the disaster, rather than poor policing and stadium design/layout. I also ask you, what do you think about the statements of police and fans being edited to remove criticism of the policing and the emergency response and also the allegations of Special Branch spying on the families of the Hillsborough Victims.
At the end of the day I sincerely hope that this coroner comes to the correct conclusion and that the families of the 96 killed can finally find some semblance of peace and get on with their lives.

I wasn't at Hillsborough, it's possible that I could have been, I was tempted, but I had the opportunity of working that weekend and we needed the money, so in all honesty it isn't my place to comment on what actually happened, I can only recount my own experiences at other venues and make comparisons based on them, notably the Wembley one, which is a clear in my mind today as it was at the time.
[quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Angry From Accrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good call[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]owd nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lancs - pensioner[/bold] wrote: Sad day and why it's took 25 years to get the bottom off it The Lord only knows. Great match for the neutrals I suppose. Keep it going GB, four wins is a must, if not continue the rebuilding for next season.[/p][/quote]Probably because there were far too many vested interests at the time PL, hopefully the coroner in this instance will get to the bottom of it and finally lay them to rest. He does appear to have all the bases covered, however I for one will be disappointed if the police take all the blame.[/p][/quote]Who else do you believe should take the blame for the disaster other than South Yorkshire Police for allowing thousands of fans into an already overcrowded section of the Leppings Lane terraces.[/p][/quote]I know it's not the done thing but please hear me out. What I am going to say may or may not bearing on the deaths of the 96 without blaming them in any way, that statement is key to my argument, and I honestly believe there is some comparison. Since I started supporting Rovers in the very early 70's Liverpool have always been my second team, in the 70's and 80's whenever I had the chance I would go to watch them when I could. On two occasions, the FA Cup final v Wimbledon 1988 and at Maine Road around the same period I witnessed behavior by ticketless Liverpool fans that quite literally was both appalling and dangerous. The worst incident by far was the FA Cup final, as we arrived at Wembley we were warned by the Police to keep our tickets safe, as we walked up Wembley way we must have been asked 20 odd times "Any spare tickets", there were that many fans outside without them. The police had a cordon about 30 yards away from the turnstiles, to get through we had to show our tickets, there was about 20 mins to kick off and we were moving towards the turnstiles when the Liverpool fans forced their way through the cordon, my mate Ian (a Burnley fan) myself and a couple of other guys were only about 10ft or so away from our turnstile, we managed to brace ourselves arms outstretched against the wall. The pressure was intense. There were two young kids and a police woman on the floor in front of us, we managed to get them through the turnstile before us, as soon as I got through the turnstile I was grabbed by a copper, he wanted to see my ticket, anyone who didn't have a ticket was bundle into the back of a Black Maria. There were a lot of Black Maria's in the concourse. I am not saying the Police were not at fault at Hillsborough, they were,but I suspect that there are still an awful lot of Liverpool fans who know exactly what happened but will never admit it. People do have very short and selective memories at times, remember Heysel anyone?[/p][/quote]You do realise that the "ticketless fans" theory has been discredited numerous times in official reports, and that there were too few turnstiles dealing with too many supporters.The disaster occurred as a result of poor policing, not fans without tickets. The police screwed up and attempted to cover it up, that isn't opinion that is fact.[/p][/quote]The ticketless fan theory has NOT been discredited. Quite the opposite. Technology not available at the time of the original inquest, has now facilitated more accurate analysis of the TV coverage both inside and outside the ground and there is no doubt whatsoever that there are more people present than tickets issued. It is also an indisputable fact that fans stormed the gates, forced their way into the ground and pushed their way to the front to get a better view. I have total and unreserved sympathy for the poor families of the innocent victims lost on that tragic day but I do hold in contempt, those who know what they did, but now seek to deflect their own guilt on to the police and emergency services. Do you honestly believe that those fans still trying to get into the ground at 2.55 were waiting patiently and heeding the advice of police and stewards? This has now turned into a political witch hunt. The families will not get justice and you can guarantee that any compensation that might be deemed payable will be claimed by Traumatised opportunists who just happened to be standing nearby. If a substantial compensation IS made, perhaps the trust might be prepared to donate a proportion of it to Heysel victims.[/p][/quote]Go on then, give me an official report or study into the disaster that cites ticketless fans as a major factor in the disaster, rather than poor policing and stadium design/layout. I also ask you, what do you think about the statements of police and fans being edited to remove criticism of the policing and the emergency response and also the allegations of Special Branch spying on the families of the Hillsborough Victims.[/p][/quote]At the end of the day I sincerely hope that this coroner comes to the correct conclusion and that the families of the 96 killed can finally find some semblance of peace and get on with their lives. I wasn't at Hillsborough, it's possible that I could have been, I was tempted, but I had the opportunity of working that weekend and we needed the money, so in all honesty it isn't my place to comment on what actually happened, I can only recount my own experiences at other venues and make comparisons based on them, notably the Wembley one, which is a clear in my mind today as it was at the time. owd nick
  • Score: 1

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