Rovers confirm Hunt's departure (From Lancashire Telegraph)
When news happens, text LT and your photos and videos to 80360. Or contact us by email or phone.
Rovers confirm Hunt's departure
11:43am Thursday 10th May 2012 in Sport
By Andy Cryer, Blackburn Rovers reporter
Paul Hunt's departure has finally been confirmed
Blackburn Rovers have finally confirmed deputy chief executive Paul Hunt has left the club.
More than 24 hours after Hunt's exit was widely reported, Rovers have released a one sentence statement confirming the news.
The statement read: "Blackburn Rovers Football Club can confirm that deputy chief executive Paul Hunt has left the club."
Comments(140)
carpetbagger
says...
11:50am Thu 10 May 12
OnePostThenTheOther
says...
11:51am Thu 10 May 12
RobbyRover
says...
11:55am Thu 10 May 12
"Haven't we confirmed that yet?"
True story.
That's who we're dealing with.
craftandgraft
says...
11:55am Thu 10 May 12
S T E P D O W N K E A N O
Arte et Labore
ps does anybody know where Paul Hunt is ?
londonrover
says...
11:56am Thu 10 May 12
Nero Wolfe
says...
11:57am Thu 10 May 12
Rover37
says...
11:58am Thu 10 May 12
Sir Bill Taylor
says...
11:59am Thu 10 May 12
My draft letter to Venkys (as a follow up to my first pretty much unheeded letter to them of June 2011) included:-"Paul Hunt was, in my opinion, an extremely pleasant, honest, hard working man of integrity & dignity."
Am I getting thing so wrong? Letter's now not sent by the way!!!
Russ ov the rovers
says...
12:00pm Thu 10 May 12
Pretty impressive statement that on a par with
"Elvis has left the building" Etc Etc
Right tell me something we didn't know then???
ASHY38
says...
12:02pm Thu 10 May 12
katrew
says...
12:03pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener
says...
12:04pm Thu 10 May 12
noddymcleod
says...
12:05pm Thu 10 May 12
You've got it wrong for years, Bill as apologist for Jack "Rendition" Straw.
jonjonweatherman
says...
12:05pm Thu 10 May 12
McClaret
says...
12:05pm Thu 10 May 12
b12simon
says...
12:06pm Thu 10 May 12
londonrover wrote:Klown still believes we can beat the drop.
The next statement will say 'Blackburn Rovers can confirm that they have been relegated from the Premier League"!
The Blocked One
says...
12:12pm Thu 10 May 12
londonrover wrote:Mrs Desai refuses to believe that they are down because Mrs Kean has told her that Sunday's game is another one of those 'six pointers' ...
The next statement will say 'Blackburn Rovers can confirm that they have been relegated from the Premier League"!
Lancs - pensioner
says...
12:12pm Thu 10 May 12
Venkys your an absolute disgrace,
Kean we know you are a drunken liar, Mr Hunt has stated you have lost the dressing room and the fans,
Who is telling the truth, I know which one I would side with!! and its not you Kean.
Mr Hunt have the balls to come out and say whats realy happening at BRFC.
happycyclist
says...
12:18pm Thu 10 May 12
OnePostThenTheOther wrote:Brilliant. And get his photo up on the LT every time. Kean needs ridiculing.
What we need is an "alternative Steve Kean" a bit like a tribute band that can offer an alternative press statement every time billy-bullsh does one parodying everything that he says with outlandish (i.e. only slightly more ridiculous) statements.
Lancs - pensioner
says...
12:18pm Thu 10 May 12
noddymcleod wrote:Hi Noddy
Is Sir Bill getting it wrong, yes. If Hunt were an honest man of dignity why didn't he publish his e-mail and resign in January ? What has Hunt been doing since January, presumably drawing a salary and little else. You've got it wrong for years, Bill as apologist for Jack "Rendition" Straw.
Take the polotics out of your argument, Sir Bill is one of us and on this subject and we need everyone we can get on our side,as another comment has stated it took some balls to send the e-mail in the first place, we can only hope Mr Hunt speaks out to the papers as well.
annbi
says...
12:28pm Thu 10 May 12
noddymcleod
says...
12:28pm Thu 10 May 12
I am not alone in thinking we deserve higher standards in public life.
annbi
says...
12:29pm Thu 10 May 12
shaus
says...
12:30pm Thu 10 May 12
Rover37 wrote:Unfortunatley as indicated by Richard Scudamore, they passed all the Premier League rules financially but there are no rules in place to stop bad decisions being made.
Man,the level of unprefessionalism as this is unfolding from Venkys is actually beyond belief. It's actually imaginable how these idi0ts ever got control of a Premiership football club in the first place.Not a whole lot going on upstairs obviously.
greenscreener
says...
12:33pm Thu 10 May 12
Obviously any facts regarding why or who is stepping in would have been pushing it.
I think we are probably down to the guy who sells the Rovers Return tickets outside the Blackburn End and the groundstaff who fork the pitch at half time.
Ticket bloke gets my vote because he'll have nothing else to do next season. He'd also work well with Kean because he just stands there shouting - "theres still a chance to win" and being ignored. Difference is I believe ticket bloke.
The Blocked One
says...
12:34pm Thu 10 May 12
What the f*ck is that supposed to mean anyway ? He's just gone out for a sandwich ? What a bunch of t*ssers.
Cumbrian Blue
says...
12:34pm Thu 10 May 12
Lancs - pensioner wrote:Regretably I doubt we'll hear from Paul Hunt....his compromise agreement will have both sides stitched up otherwise either party can sue.
Can we go any lower?
Venkys your an absolute disgrace,
Kean we know you are a drunken liar, Mr Hunt has stated you have lost the dressing room and the fans,
Who is telling the truth, I know which one I would side with!! and its not you Kean.
Mr Hunt have the balls to come out and say whats realy happening at BRFC.
Shame, but that's the way it goes with top exec departures.
It is interesting that this announcement followed the supposed Emergency Board Meeting last night. Perhaps the actual terms of his departure were on the agenda and needed to be finalised? I somehow doubt it. Just another OG from Mrs. D further demonstrating how far-removed Venkys are.
I would love to know what else was on the agenda. Maybe it was just the first formal meeting since Rovers were relegated and therefore deemed as an Emergency meeting. One would hope contingencies were already in place....but who knows with this shower.
Messrs. Coar, Lee, Root, Stanners and anyone else with long-standing ties/loyalty to the club in any position of title/authority....d
o your best to get shut of Venkys...please.
The Blocked One
says...
12:39pm Thu 10 May 12
greenscreener wrote:He's to be replaced by a guy called Kenneth Taro, but he likes to be called Ken.
Finally - a statement from the club that didn't include a lie !
Obviously any facts regarding why or who is stepping in would have been pushing it.
I think we are probably down to the guy who sells the Rovers Return tickets outside the Blackburn End and the groundstaff who fork the pitch at half time.
Ticket bloke gets my vote because he'll have nothing else to do next season. He'd also work well with Kean because he just stands there shouting - "theres still a chance to win" and being ignored. Difference is I believe ticket bloke.
batesempire
says...
12:46pm Thu 10 May 12
Due to the unknown future of Steve kean as manager of Blackburn Rovers football club and the lack of commination & investment from the Venkeys I can’t commit myself to this comedy until changes are maid I don’t have a 10 point plan all can say is wake up and run our club like it should be . Show some respect it comes as standard.
kazz
says...
12:47pm Thu 10 May 12
Somepeoplesay
says...
12:49pm Thu 10 May 12
greenscreener
says...
12:51pm Thu 10 May 12
The Blocked One wrote:Nice one. Took me a second to get there.
greenscreener wrote: Finally - a statement from the club that didn't include a lie ! Obviously any facts regarding why or who is stepping in would have been pushing it. I think we are probably down to the guy who sells the Rovers Return tickets outside the Blackburn End and the groundstaff who fork the pitch at half time. Ticket bloke gets my vote because he'll have nothing else to do next season. He'd also work well with Kean because he just stands there shouting - "theres still a chance to win" and being ignored. Difference is I believe ticket bloke.He's to be replaced by a guy called Kenneth Taro, but he likes to be called Ken.
Actually i believe Myles playing contract expires next month. Wouldn't it be good if we could find him something ?
Good salary, keep quiet, and nothing to actually do, sounds like he could handle the transition.
GameRoverMan
says...
12:56pm Thu 10 May 12
RobbyRover wrote:I suspect the email wasn't even read when he wrote it. What has probably happened is that the email was released to the press (not by Hunt apparently!) and that was he first time anybody at our clueless owners bothered to look at it.
The guy from Sporting Intel says he phoned Pune to ask Venky's about Hunt and the reply he got was; "Haven't we confirmed that yet?" True story. That's who we're dealing with.
hassy bloke
says...
12:58pm Thu 10 May 12
greenscreener
says...
12:59pm Thu 10 May 12
Ticket bloke said - I thought the interview went well, although they did look a bit confused when I explained my role was to bring money INTO the club.
bluerob
says...
1:04pm Thu 10 May 12
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
QuizOnMyFace
says...
1:06pm Thu 10 May 12
Dukes
says...
1:17pm Thu 10 May 12
Kean and Venkys OUT.
Cyprusblue
says...
1:21pm Thu 10 May 12
Don't renew just yet. Withdraw you support temporarily. Strike, strike , strike one out all out! Brothers and sisiters unite and fight!
adcr
says...
1:23pm Thu 10 May 12
I mean what kind of plan has he hatched in his deluded tiny mind for us to regroup and start to rebuild. Are we going to buy players with monopoly money, are venky's going to insist on relegation being banned this season, is keano going to take us all into the fantasy place inside his head where everyone's dreams can come true, is kean planning on turning the table upside down and shouting look we really finished second, perhaps he will say forget about judging me after transfer windows have shut or at the end of the season; judge me in 10 years when we will be winning the champions league every season.
I just can’t let this go. If he had said dark times ahead; I would still hate the man, but at least I could understand this to be a true statement. Whereas now I have to get it into my head that good news means bad, and everything else he says is just ****. Venky’s don’t say anything, Kean talks rubbish, and if the backroom dares to say anything they get sacked. Brilliant .
A Darener
says...
1:23pm Thu 10 May 12
Shear_Brilliance
says...
1:25pm Thu 10 May 12
isn't it funny how they where both advised by the man?
Jerome Anderson
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed said they where supposed to buy the club with equal shares?
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed disappeared just like Venky's did?
Isn't it funny that the clubs are almost identical in terms of wealth, size of town and fan base?
Isn't it funny they made almost the exact same promises?
Isn't it funny they both immediately sacked proven managers?
Cyprusblue
says...
1:26pm Thu 10 May 12
happiness
says...
1:28pm Thu 10 May 12
Harwoodstblue
says...
1:28pm Thu 10 May 12
bluerob wrote:Agreed, Well said Rob. Take note everyone, stuff em.
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
Final word
says...
1:31pm Thu 10 May 12
We need more help from the national media, the incentive for you to investigate is there is a big story for you at the end of it!
Never give up on BRFC, we will get our club back!
! This message was sent with high importance
adcr
says...
1:32pm Thu 10 May 12
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
EwoodExile
says...
1:38pm Thu 10 May 12
Venky's investments could have helped the club to a stable future but the desparate truth is that they have squandered the money through mismanagement.
And this is where Kean must take a huge share of the blame. When you are looking to compete in the PL on a limited budget, you need astute dealings in the transfer market and the ability to build a cohesive team. Kean is criminally lacking on both counts.
Take that to the Championship. To win promotion, you need a wage bill of something like £10 - 20m which means even more emphasis on skill in the transfer market an on team building.
Just how Venky's have built their business is beyond me if they cannot see what the rest of the world can see - you need the right peson in charge. Their business model is all about having a single person accountable for their subsidiaries - if they are to persevere with this approach, it should at least be a real CEO who has the right to hire and fire the manager.
Shambles.
makaveli96
says...
1:40pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:41pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:41pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:42pm Thu 10 May 12
carpetbagger
says...
1:47pm Thu 10 May 12
regards
David Icke
A Darener
says...
1:47pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
dangerous dave
says...
1:48pm Thu 10 May 12
Hunts e mail made all the right noises and was obviously the only one on the Management Team with any Premiership Knowledge regarding the running of the club and what do the stinking Venkys do - dismiss him because he was right!!! Bloody Kean should be the one to go and without any pay off - let him go to court to try and get the remainder of his contract in cash - he has not fulfilled one target and he himself has asked to be judged on results (on many occasions) - yes the results say it all AN ABSOLUTE FAILURE AND A LIAR TO BOOT!!!
OUT WITH KEAN AND OUT WITH THE VENKYS
makaveli96
says...
1:50pm Thu 10 May 12
No money to Venkys, maximum hassle caused, no details on any databases, and even free taxis??
mr smooth
says...
1:51pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:51pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:52pm Thu 10 May 12
Nice girl.....
Cyprusblue
says...
1:53pm Thu 10 May 12
STRIKE!!! I'm being serious. Your thought guys?
makaveli96
says...
1:54pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:54pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96 wrote:Does Andy mate with any of the News of the World lads?
Hackers?
Rovers75
says...
1:54pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
1:55pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener
says...
1:56pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96 wrote:I doubt they will be doing much business!
How about thousands of people standing outside the Rovers Stores to disrubt business???
givet82
says...
1:59pm Thu 10 May 12
Shear_Brilliance wrote:very true indeed except racing satander finished bottom,that anderson needs stringing up by his spuds
Ali Syed did to Racing Santander exactly what Venky's are doing to us.
isn't it funny how they where both advised by the man?
Jerome Anderson
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed said they where supposed to buy the club with equal shares?
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed disappeared just like Venky's did?
Isn't it funny that the clubs are almost identical in terms of wealth, size of town and fan base?
Isn't it funny they made almost the exact same promises?
Isn't it funny they both immediately sacked proven managers?
The Blocked One
says...
2:01pm Thu 10 May 12
greenscreener wrote:Exactly, just ask Bruno, or Dennis as the guys who cook the burgers call him.
The Blocked One wrote:Nice one. Took me a second to get there.
greenscreener wrote: Finally - a statement from the club that didn't include a lie ! Obviously any facts regarding why or who is stepping in would have been pushing it. I think we are probably down to the guy who sells the Rovers Return tickets outside the Blackburn End and the groundstaff who fork the pitch at half time. Ticket bloke gets my vote because he'll have nothing else to do next season. He'd also work well with Kean because he just stands there shouting - "theres still a chance to win" and being ignored. Difference is I believe ticket bloke.He's to be replaced by a guy called Kenneth Taro, but he likes to be called Ken.
Actually i believe Myles playing contract expires next month. Wouldn't it be good if we could find him something ?
Good salary, keep quiet, and nothing to actually do, sounds like he could handle the transition.
bluerob
says...
2:01pm Thu 10 May 12
The true fans will return when the deluded one has gone, then we will rebuild and give OUR club and give 100% support .
makaveli96
says...
2:03pm Thu 10 May 12
mr smooth
says...
2:03pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
2:04pm Thu 10 May 12
bluerob
says...
2:05pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:Your entitled to your opinion, mine is short term pain long term gain.
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
The true fans will return when the deluded one has gone, then we will rebuild and give OUR club and give 100% support .
makaveli96
says...
2:05pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
2:07pm Thu 10 May 12
He said, "Get married."
bluerob
says...
2:07pm Thu 10 May 12
Cyprusblue wrote:Im with you all the way on this, we have to be strong and show them we will not stand aside and watch this farce any longer.
I am being very serious about an official STRIKE! if we could reduce the gates to 0 because of our love and support for the institution that is BRFC and get rid of Venkies and Kean that is much better than being didvided with gates of 8,000 and leavinourselves open to ridicule.
STRIKE!!! I'm being serious. Your thought guys?
adcr
says...
2:09pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener wrote:I fully understand people not wanting to go anymore, I don’t fancy going either. But all we are doing is quickening our downfall. The venky’s will see the shortfall in revenue and decide to sell more players to balance the books. This in turn will make us tumble down the leagues even quicker! Venky’s will only go when we have caused them as much grief as they can take. If they won’t sell when they have lost the sky money, do you think they will be too bothered by some fans not renewing their season tickets. The quickest and safest way for Blackburn Rovers to get rid of them is to keep on doing damage to their brand and keep giving them grief. All that said I too am starting to doubt my desire to still be a Rovers fan – I have had enough of always being depressed and angry every weekend and may not be able to tolerate going for much longer.
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
Bangkok Rover
says...
2:09pm Thu 10 May 12
Kean sectioned
Anderson investigated
New owners in
Shearer in
Fans back
Smiles on faces
LiamJ_1
says...
2:09pm Thu 10 May 12
thommovat
says...
2:09pm Thu 10 May 12
givet82 wrote:Given that the deluded one believes he will still have a job next season and Mrs D seems to be well in with Mrs K, can someone actually verify that Venkys, and only Venkys, own BFC OR does SK/JA also have a financial stake (and thus a foothold) in the ownership? If SK did have a stake would it still be within the Prem rules for him to actually manage the club? Also, assuming all who have left since Venkys arrived have been 'gagged' (financially or otherwise) would not such information be available from the PFA or the Football Managers' Association and thus obtainable?
Shear_Brilliance wrote: Ali Syed did to Racing Santander exactly what Venky's are doing to us. isn't it funny how they where both advised by the man? Jerome Anderson Isn't it funny that Ali Syed said they where supposed to buy the club with equal shares? Isn't it funny that Ali Syed disappeared just like Venky's did? Isn't it funny that the clubs are almost identical in terms of wealth, size of town and fan base? Isn't it funny they made almost the exact same promises? Isn't it funny they both immediately sacked proven managers?very true indeed except racing satander finished bottom,that anderson needs stringing up by his spuds
bluerob
says...
2:11pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:And Super Steve will say to Mrs D, "see I told you it was only 1%"
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
vicn1956
says...
2:11pm Thu 10 May 12
Great idea if all the disillusioned players sit in the centre circle all half time-show the world what a tight squad we have- well they'll be transferred anyway if they're worth anything.
Venkys=would you buy a second-hand car from them? Anything?
Oh yes I'll buy a season ticket!
A Darener
says...
2:12pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:Now you know how the rest of us feel.........Can't stand weekends anymore.
A Darener wrote:I fully understand people not wanting to go anymore, I don’t fancy going either. But all we are doing is quickening our downfall. The venky’s will see the shortfall in revenue and decide to sell more players to balance the books. This in turn will make us tumble down the leagues even quicker! Venky’s will only go when we have caused them as much grief as they can take. If they won’t sell when they have lost the sky money, do you think they will be too bothered by some fans not renewing their season tickets. The quickest and safest way for Blackburn Rovers to get rid of them is to keep on doing damage to their brand and keep giving them grief. All that said I too am starting to doubt my desire to still be a Rovers fan – I have had enough of always being depressed and angry every weekend and may not be able to tolerate going for much longer.
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
makaveli96
says...
2:14pm Thu 10 May 12
Not as sorry as i am, i'd bought her a birthday card from Clintons & i can't take the thing back now.
John No
says...
2:14pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
2:15pm Thu 10 May 12
I found it in his desk drawer.
bluerob
says...
2:16pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:Im not suggesting you stop being a fan, even though I will not be renewing it will never stop me following BRFC.
A Darener wrote:I fully understand people not wanting to go anymore, I don’t fancy going either. But all we are doing is quickening our downfall. The venky’s will see the shortfall in revenue and decide to sell more players to balance the books. This in turn will make us tumble down the leagues even quicker! Venky’s will only go when we have caused them as much grief as they can take. If they won’t sell when they have lost the sky money, do you think they will be too bothered by some fans not renewing their season tickets. The quickest and safest way for Blackburn Rovers to get rid of them is to keep on doing damage to their brand and keep giving them grief. All that said I too am starting to doubt my desire to still be a Rovers fan – I have had enough of always being depressed and angry every weekend and may not be able to tolerate going for much longer.
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
I will be back the day the so called manager has gone and Venkys show they care.That day will come much quicker if we turn our backs on them.
carpetbagger
says...
2:16pm Thu 10 May 12
It was a hard decision but its the only way.
makaveli96
says...
2:16pm Thu 10 May 12
I love my Batman costume.
Cyprusblue
says...
2:17pm Thu 10 May 12
We are not being bad, part time, or glory hunting supporters we are taking direct action to ensure the club we love has a future.
One out all out. Cancel your direct debits, rip up your renewal forms and withdraw your support until they have gone. Lets make it official, lets make it real. Picket lines on match days the lot. The first football fans in the history of the game to go on official strike. Think of the publicity!!!
Loud proud and 100% support for the long term future of our club.
Strike strike strike. Brothers and sisters one out all out.
makaveli96
says...
2:18pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
2:20pm Thu 10 May 12
Coming soon Vidal Sassoon's new range... Dead and Smoulders.
carlmc
says...
2:20pm Thu 10 May 12
noddymcleod wrote:Hunt almost certainly leaked the E Mail himself, so no one blew his cover. Think about it, he wasn't dismissed for the E Mail itself. If he had, then he would have been dismissed in December. He has been dismissed for leaking the E Mail.
OK, point taken, but as they say, never ask a question. My last word on Hunt, as Deputy Chief Exectuive of a major concern isn't he supposed to have "balls" ? And don't forget he was asking for a pay rise and promotion, and if you think he's honourable, please tell me what he's been doing since January and wouldn't Hunt still be there if someone hadn't blown his cover ? I am not alone in thinking we deserve higher standards in public life.
If someone else had leaked it, then it would be them sacked. I would say Hunt has nothing to lose now, he might as well come out and say what he knows. Let's face it, if the fans takeover happens and Venky's are forced to sell because of the help he gives us, then he may make a swift return.
Go on Paul, spill the beans you owe it to us the fans and to yourself.
makaveli96
says...
2:25pm Thu 10 May 12
Nero Wolfe
says...
2:26pm Thu 10 May 12
Cyprusblue wrote:Hear hear. I've had a season ticket virtually every year since 1970 but not whilst these lunatics are in charge. Away games only for me until we have a change of owner, manager and relationship with the fans. Another media source is now reporting that Kean is claiming to have a good relationship with the fans. What planet is he on? This is just another inflammatory gesture to put 2 fingers up to the fans. I hope that all sponsors and corporate hospitality customers withdraw their support too. We have to drive these people out of our club.
STRIKE, STRIKE, STRIKE. Cancel your DD's don't buy tickets and don't attend Ewood until we get what we want. They can offer part season tickets if they want us back. Their call. Don't give up, don't walk away. Do whats best for the future of BRFC. Withdraw your support temporarily.One out all out 100% No scabs and no wavering. lets go on strike and lets make it very very public indeed. It's never been done and the publicity would be fantastic. Official BRFC supporters strike. Lets do it and be strong.
alfa111
says...
2:28pm Thu 10 May 12
bluerob wrote:Agree bluerob, venkys, will as i expect though blame lack of renewal season tickets sales as the excuse to cuts in financing the club hence the mass fire sale of players and redundancy of club staff which venkys will say was forced on them by fans poor support, we must see this through though and stand firm the pain will go on but it will change for the better if we the fans keep up with the pressure they and kean are certainly feeling it now. Kean is a bluff merchant he knows its gone s*it face at ewood and keans going to have to answer for it big time some time, we have, fans all the time in the world , ha,ha,its we are who are not going any were kean but you are, time is on are side.Your pain will be far more severe than what we are having at the moment trust us kean we will be laughing at you when your gone and you will be going kean you will be gone.Never to manage aP/L football team ever again.
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
craftandgraft
says...
2:29pm Thu 10 May 12
SEM KENTARO effectively own BRFC.
They advise Venkys.
All players apart from the Yak ( i think ) are Kentaro owned.
Keane is Anderson's puppet.....how else is he still here.
It's all been set up by these greaseballs so that nobody is culpable.
But they are.....Anderson ( as an agent ) is not supposed to have undue influence at a club!
HE IS RUNNING BRFC.
The FA and Premier League are useless.
UEFA are now involved.
SEM KENTARO ARE CRIMINALLY RUTHLESS.
Keane has got a few million tied up in BRFC.
HE HAS FRIENDS FROM GLASGOW.....wooooooh
.
Then there's the take over!
So much money has been screwed out of BRFC and Venkys it is DISGUSTING.
Arte et Labore
ps Myles Anderson is SH£T at football.
craftandgraft
says...
2:34pm Thu 10 May 12
S T E P D O W N K E A N O
Arte et Labore
ps they've picked a fight with the wrong people
mr smooth
says...
2:34pm Thu 10 May 12
gleechy
says...
2:36pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener
says...
2:37pm Thu 10 May 12
Unfortunately that is not a lie.....he does have a good relationship with the fans...just NOT Blackburn Rovers fans!
100%rovers0%kean0%venkys
says...
2:38pm Thu 10 May 12
it was Rao
points made
Rao to timesnow
1. hunt sacked to cut cost
2. only some malicious fans are protesting
3. Media in uk have right to say whatever they want
4. we are not selling
5. obviously of the poor results fans are disappointed and back to point 2
http://www.timesnow.
tv/Venkys-deny-selli
ng-Blackburn/videosh
ow/4401844.cms
porterman
says...
2:39pm Thu 10 May 12
Somepeoplesay
says...
2:41pm Thu 10 May 12
KEEP THE STADIUM EMPTY
KEEP THE STADIUM EMPTY
Lets just see how long they can last!!!
A Darener
says...
2:41pm Thu 10 May 12
porterman wrote:All of them hopefully!
Robinson and Dunn out of sundays game who thumped kean this time
A Darener
says...
2:43pm Thu 10 May 12
100%rovers0%kean0%vePoint #2 Well that makes one hell of alot of malicious fans. At least 20,000+ must be some sort of record.
nkys wrote:
Venkys 1st interview......on TIMESNOW.TV
it was Rao
points made
Rao to timesnow
1. hunt sacked to cut cost
2. only some malicious fans are protesting
3. Media in uk have right to say whatever they want
4. we are not selling
5. obviously of the poor results fans are disappointed and back to point 2
http://www.timesnow.
tv/Venkys-deny-selli
ng-Blackburn/videosh
ow/4401844.cms
hasslem hasslem
says...
2:48pm Thu 10 May 12
.
can i plead with hunt and his team that they do not sign a non-disclosure agreement.
.
too many people have left the club and not whipsered (publicly) a word. John and Simon Williams, Sam Allardyce, Tom Finn, John Jensen, Finance Director and loads of players. All of these either have
1) something to hide
or
2) agreed contractually and financially to keep their own counsel
.
The only one that has come close is Keith Andrews and he has said enough.
.
its time that stuff started to seep out.
.
the only two details that have emerged are the tow e.mails.
.
i find it impossible to believe that hunt leaked the letter - unless he was trying to engineer an exit in order to keep his house (read the e.mail). i am pretty sure where the leak came from, but will refrain from saying in the hope that they have enough other stuff to keep it coming.
dad-jon123
says...
2:51pm Thu 10 May 12
Q1. You said we have lost players with over a thousand games of premiership experience why did you not go to the owners who you communicate with on a regular basis that no club can retain premier league status when losing so much experiance.
Q2. Who is running the club on a daily basis you or the board.
Q3. You said judge me on my signings so what makes you think your signings who are below quality will make a rapid return to the premiership.
Q3. You said Hoilett would sign a new contract in November he has nt why come out with a statement like that if he had no intention of signing one.
Q4. How are you going to keep your squad together when the last question asked is about to leave.
Q5. Why do you keep putting your family through all the abuse you are getting from the fans from all sides of Ewood park.
Q6. Why will you not ask the owners for help like anyone would if they were struggling to do there job
Q7. Are you still part of the Kentaro group and are they still involved in BRFC.
Q8.What do you have to say about the fans who will not renew season tickets until you leave BRFC.
Q9. Do you and the Venkys think that the club do not need fans and how are you going to rebuild the bridges that you and the Venkys have demolished.
Q10. Why will you not resign.
See its easy no one on ssn,the tabloids,or let will ask the questions everyone in pubs clubs work are asking between themselves come media ask the questions because we need the answers now and if he can't answer them lets see him sqirm rtid
hasslem hasslem
says...
2:52pm Thu 10 May 12
beardy1967
says...
2:53pm Thu 10 May 12
it was like listening to a bt customer service rep
anyone getting season ticket for rovers in current circumstances are also deluded
porterman
says...
2:55pm Thu 10 May 12
hasslem hasslem wrote:only true thing they have said
This morning Steve Kean and his employers the Venky family confirmed in a statement that the moon is made of cheese.
benal13
says...
2:57pm Thu 10 May 12
dad-jon123 wrote:are you listening andy cryer
Why are the media shying away from asking some serious questions to Steve Kean like .
Q1. You said we have lost players with over a thousand games of premiership experience why did you not go to the owners who you communicate with on a regular basis that no club can retain premier league status when losing so much experiance.
Q2. Who is running the club on a daily basis you or the board.
Q3. You said judge me on my signings so what makes you think your signings who are below quality will make a rapid return to the premiership.
Q3. You said Hoilett would sign a new contract in November he has nt why come out with a statement like that if he had no intention of signing one.
Q4. How are you going to keep your squad together when the last question asked is about to leave.
Q5. Why do you keep putting your family through all the abuse you are getting from the fans from all sides of Ewood park.
Q6. Why will you not ask the owners for help like anyone would if they were struggling to do there job
Q7. Are you still part of the Kentaro group and are they still involved in BRFC.
Q8.What do you have to say about the fans who will not renew season tickets until you leave BRFC.
Q9. Do you and the Venkys think that the club do not need fans and how are you going to rebuild the bridges that you and the Venkys have demolished.
Q10. Why will you not resign.
See its easy no one on ssn,the tabloids,or let will ask the questions everyone in pubs clubs work are asking between themselves come media ask the questions because we need the answers now and if he can't answer them lets see him sqirm rtid
A Darener
says...
2:57pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener wrote:Just been to this site...well worth a listen....left a comment...A plea to the Indian people who use Venky's outlets in India to boycott them. If you all leave comments it may help. But then aain probably not.
100%rovers0%kean0%vePoint #2 Well that makes one hell of alot of malicious fans. At least 20,000+ must be some sort of record.
nkys wrote:
Venkys 1st interview......on TIMESNOW.TV
it was Rao
points made
Rao to timesnow
1. hunt sacked to cut cost
2. only some malicious fans are protesting
3. Media in uk have right to say whatever they want
4. we are not selling
5. obviously of the poor results fans are disappointed and back to point 2
http://www.timesnow.
tv/Venkys-deny-selli
ng-Blackburn/videosh
ow/4401844.cms
craftandgraft
says...
3:00pm Thu 10 May 12
It makes no odds if they are involved at BRFC.....they'll get fired anyway.
SEM KENTARO have a hold on a lot of people in football and in the media. They are capable of corruption at the highest level and don't care what it takes to get what they want.
Geronimo Andyton took a Murderous Overlord to Man City.
As fans they can't touch us.....what are they going to do... bomb BLACKBURN ?
It's up to us to get rid of them.
www.brsit.co.uk
Arte et Labore
ps Blackburn Olympic were formed in 1873
benal13
says...
3:06pm Thu 10 May 12
jonjonweatherman wrote:HE SHOT HIMSELF IN THE FOOT BY FIRST ASKING FOR A PAY RISE END OF ;
In all fairness to Paul Hunt it took courage to write a letter like that to his employers with their bullying record. He probably stayed because he genuinely thought he could rescue the Rovers from oblivion
noddymcleod
says...
3:14pm Thu 10 May 12
Hunt has no loyalty to Rovers, he's just a journeyman footie administrator.
benal13
says...
3:21pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:LISTEN ITS EASY TO UNDERSTAND kean WATEVER HE SAYS HE MEANS THE OPPOSITE EITHER ITS A MEDICAL THING OR HES A LYING B#######
I know we are all sick of hearing and seeing kean, but I am sorry, I need to know just one more thing and I am hoping the next time there is a press call at Ewood the LT press can Kean on what he means by his quote "exciting times ahead".
I mean what kind of plan has he hatched in his deluded tiny mind for us to regroup and start to rebuild. Are we going to buy players with monopoly money, are venky's going to insist on relegation being banned this season, is keano going to take us all into the fantasy place inside his head where everyone's dreams can come true, is kean planning on turning the table upside down and shouting look we really finished second, perhaps he will say forget about judging me after transfer windows have shut or at the end of the season; judge me in 10 years when we will be winning the champions league every season.
I just can’t let this go. If he had said dark times ahead; I would still hate the man, but at least I could understand this to be a true statement. Whereas now I have to get it into my head that good news means bad, and everything else he says is just ****. Venky’s don’t say anything, Kean talks rubbish, and if the backroom dares to say anything they get sacked. Brilliant .
benal13
says...
3:31pm Thu 10 May 12
benal13
says...
3:34pm Thu 10 May 12
A Darener
says...
3:38pm Thu 10 May 12
benal13 wrote:More cost cutting to come. All players released. Kean trawling local pubs for players.
VENKYS STATEMENT JUST OUT HUNT SACKED NOT FOR EMAIL BUT FOR COST CUTTING RELEGATION NO ONES FAULT JUST BEEN ON SKY NEWS
alfa111
says...
3:49pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:Sorry fella but i can go back 12 months ago on here now, fans with the same thoughts as you now, it didnt do anything to change the sh*t thats happening since, now over twelve months later these scum running BRFC couldn't give a ****, they have planned for over 12 months to sell are assets top players. Barclays bank warned them it would send a bad signal to the world market, even at a relative stable time last year the aim of venkys was to sell and now they have dumped Barclays bank for an indian bank, Barclay bank new what venkys real intentions were and that was along term plan to strip BRFC assets.
A Darener wrote:I fully understand people not wanting to go anymore, I don’t fancy going either. But all we are doing is quickening our downfall. The venky’s will see the shortfall in revenue and decide to sell more players to balance the books. This in turn will make us tumble down the leagues even quicker! Venky’s will only go when we have caused them as much grief as they can take. If they won’t sell when they have lost the sky money, do you think they will be too bothered by some fans not renewing their season tickets. The quickest and safest way for Blackburn Rovers to get rid of them is to keep on doing damage to their brand and keep giving them grief. All that said I too am starting to doubt my desire to still be a Rovers fan – I have had enough of always being depressed and angry every weekend and may not be able to tolerate going for much longer.
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
ashman
says...
5:06pm Thu 10 May 12
OnePostThenTheOther wrote:Good idea...this alternative person could hold up a card translating what kean should be saying as opposed to what crap is coming out of his mouth.
What we need is an "alternative Steve Kean" a bit like a tribute band that can offer an alternative press statement every time billy-bullsh does one parodying everything that he says with outlandish (i.e. only slightly more ridiculous) statements.
Dan11
says...
5:50pm Thu 10 May 12
Nero Wolfe wrote:The Indians believe in a autocratic management style. However the great problem here is that they forgot the number one rule a business dependent on customers needs to follow, the customer is always right.
It's like living in a third world military dictatorship. The citizens are fed on a diet of propaganda which may not bear any relation to the truth. Yesterday Kean told us that these are exciting times for the club. I can think of many words but exciting isn't one of them.
-
The fans are the customers, and as Mr Hunt said they are leaving at an alarming rate. The Venkys attitude is to treat the fans like their factory workers, expendable dirt. They wonder why we are all against them, and leaving in droves?
Plasticbertrand
says...
7:12pm Thu 10 May 12
bring back the good old days
says...
7:25pm Thu 10 May 12
Shear_Brilliance wrote:Hence the call for the Prem Lg to look into Venkys 'activities'.
Ali Syed did to Racing Santander exactly what Venky's are doing to us.
isn't it funny how they where both advised by the man?
Jerome Anderson
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed said they where supposed to buy the club with equal shares?
Isn't it funny that Ali Syed disappeared just like Venky's did?
Isn't it funny that the clubs are almost identical in terms of wealth, size of town and fan base?
Isn't it funny they made almost the exact same promises?
Isn't it funny they both immediately sacked proven managers?
But they won't as it is probably too embarrassing for them and in any case we don't register on their radar as a important club.
bring back the good old days
says...
7:31pm Thu 10 May 12
Final word wrote:There is a method where with I think its 100,000 signatures you can force a reading in the house (parliament) to get them to consider a proposal from the common man.
We need to put pressure on as many people/organisations as possible to investigate what is really happening at this club and who is pulling the strings. Thats the only way we will get shut of them, there is something out there we just have to find it.
We need more help from the national media, the incentive for you to investigate is there is a big story for you at the end of it!
Never give up on BRFC, we will get our club back!
! This message was sent with high importance
I have no idea whether something of this nature could be 'urged' i.e. the thorough investigation, but I would think that with a nationwide appeal we could easily acquire those figs. I reckon just in the NW alone.
If anyone has any idea on how to register this could you advertise it on here.
anna_brfc
says...
7:32pm Thu 10 May 12
bring back the good old days
says...
7:37pm Thu 10 May 12
beardy1967 wrote:I would love to know how many of the 1200 have now cancelled their DD in FINALLY realising what reckless clowns they are buying into
deluded as keanochio
it was like listening to a bt customer service rep
anyone getting season ticket for rovers in current circumstances are also deluded
ste.g
says...
7:42pm Thu 10 May 12
check out elhadji sioux diouf tweets.
he said he hates kean to and gave this number
bring back the good old days
says...
7:45pm Thu 10 May 12
hasslem hasslem wrote:Agreed, He has IMO engineered his way out as he has had enough.
i know that hunt has gone now so, one assumes that the terms of his severance have been agreed (or are being agreed with hunt's lawyer).
.
can i plead with hunt and his team that they do not sign a non-disclosure agreement.
.
too many people have left the club and not whipsered (publicly) a word. John and Simon Williams, Sam Allardyce, Tom Finn, John Jensen, Finance Director and loads of players. All of these either have
1) something to hide
or
2) agreed contractually and financially to keep their own counsel
.
The only one that has come close is Keith Andrews and he has said enough.
.
its time that stuff started to seep out.
.
the only two details that have emerged are the tow e.mails.
.
i find it impossible to believe that hunt leaked the letter - unless he was trying to engineer an exit in order to keep his house (read the e.mail). i am pretty sure where the leak came from, but will refrain from saying in the hope that they have enough other stuff to keep it coming.
As for Keith Andrews, if i had been one who had barracked him, I would now be feeling pretty ashamed of myself. He, having no reason to, applauded the supporters.
I am just hoping that the rumour of Sally speaking out comes to fruition.
bring back the good old days
says...
7:52pm Thu 10 May 12
adcr wrote:In what way have we damaged their brand?
A Darener wrote:I fully understand people not wanting to go anymore, I don’t fancy going either. But all we are doing is quickening our downfall. The venky’s will see the shortfall in revenue and decide to sell more players to balance the books. This in turn will make us tumble down the leagues even quicker! Venky’s will only go when we have caused them as much grief as they can take. If they won’t sell when they have lost the sky money, do you think they will be too bothered by some fans not renewing their season tickets. The quickest and safest way for Blackburn Rovers to get rid of them is to keep on doing damage to their brand and keep giving them grief. All that said I too am starting to doubt my desire to still be a Rovers fan – I have had enough of always being depressed and angry every weekend and may not be able to tolerate going for much longer.
adcr wrote:The Venky's are NOT interested in BRFC only how much money they can get from us. DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE PENNY MORE!!!
bluerob wrote:The problem with not renewing is when we get crowds of say 8,000-10,000; Burnley fans will forever be giving it "see your smaller than us" and the national media will have further reason to have ago at us. This in turn will also have long lasting implications because our reputation will be damaged, but more importantly alot of the fans will never return to Ewood - EVEN when the venky's are long gone. I still feel a better ploy is to keep going and show the team and town your loyalty and at the same time keep trying to damage the venkys brand (e.g. the chicken on the pitch brought us some worldwide attention)
The only positive that has come out of this sorry mess is that the fans are united together as one voice again, this is our only chance to get the message over PLEASE DONT RENEW YOUR SEASON TICKET
I know its a hard decision for all true fans, but it is our duty to have a say in the future of our club and this is the ONLY way we can voice our opinion.
No one who deals with them knows or gives two hoots for BRFC.
bring back the good old days
says...
7:58pm Thu 10 May 12
anna_brfc wrote:Anna its already in place with BRIST.
I agree that not renewing season tickets and striking against the club is an excellent economical strike towards venky's, however I also think that by doing that Venky's will go on to sell remaining players, players will leave as they a) will be playing for a championship side now not a premiership side, and b) will not be playing in front of a crowd which will then lead them to leave the club. I feel that we need to come up with another way of striking against venky's, because if we stop going to games we'll just lose the players and end up having to play Myles Anderson who was signed by his father one of the main contributing factors that lead to the mess we are currently in. There are possibilities but god knows how they would work. It would be amazing if each fan could buy a share of blackburn rovers and eventually takeover venkys by outbuying all their shares, which would allow the fans to control our club and hire the right people for the job. Would be an extremely unlikely and probably impossible process, but a miserable Blackburn Rovers fan can dream.
As for buying them out;
Firstly they have to agree to sell.
Secondly, are they really likely to gift wrap it back to us?
Thirdly, Even the 'leaders' of the BRIST admit that Venkys expectations of the value will put us in a cannot afford it situation.
We really need some 'big hitters' (financially) to put up the bulk of the 'readies'.
40 years +
says...
9:13pm Thu 10 May 12
Melanie :-)
says...
9:54pm Thu 10 May 12
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com
Introduction:
There have been unacceptable levels of abuse aimed at Blackburn Rovers supporters from the national media, footballers, football managers and football fans throughout the country since the protest's against Steve Kean, The Venky's and Jerome Anderson began.
I hope that the information on this page will go some way towards redressing that.
I am totally biased.
There is nothing impartial in anything I write about Blackburn Rovers, the Protest Movement or Steve Kean, Jerome Anderson and The Venky's.
I support the actions of the various protest groups 100%.
I support the actions of any spontanious organic protests as and when they arise 100%.
I support Blackburn Rovers Football Club 100%.
0% Steve Kean.
0% Jerome Anderson.
0% Venky's.
There has been too much disrespect shown, particularly in the corporate media towards the protestors, their aims and their objectives. Therefore, it is left to alternative media sources such as this to provide some perspective.
However, in some cases I have relied upon corporate media sources for some information as there have been honourable individual exceptions - but that does not alter the fact that the corporate media as an institution has in most cases treated the protesters with disdain.
It is an obvious though seldom acknowledged reality that Steve Kean had nine months as manager of Blackburn Rovers before a single protest began.
So, why did the protest movement begin?
This is an important question, to understand the protest movement we must first understand the context within which it arose.
Blackburn Rovers were once regarded as one of the most efficiently and well administered football clubs in English football. A model football club, a model to emulate and imitate - and many did try to "do a Blackburn" - but failed.
Above all, Blackburn Rovers represented something of an anomaly, regarded as a huge football club - in a small town; perhaps the only football club in world football to be thought of as such - a beacon of hope to 'under dogs' everywhere, yet resented at the same time: A well respected club within the game but despised by neutral fans jealous of the clubs stature and historical significance and disliked in the corporate media based largely in London, resentful of a small northern town football club's plucky resilience.
This is to be expected. England resents success. BRFC and its supporters have long been despised for winning The Premier League in 1995.
Four months before he died in 2001, Jack Walker gave an interview to reassure Blackburn Rovers supporters that he had made provision for the club. "A number of years ago I put in place a family trust structure to own my various business interests, including Blackburn Rovers," he explained. "This structure ensures continuity of management and provides the necessary financial support for all my businesses for the foreseeable future. I have made known my wishes to my colleagues, whom I am confident will carry forward the policies necessary to promote and enlarge all my business interests."
The trust, which was registered in Jersey, was run by a board of trustees. They rarely spoke publicly, but when Jack Walker died the trust chairman, the Jersey solicitor Paul Egerton-Vernon, did make a statement: "The club is provided for the foreseeable future."
The terms of the instructions Jack Walker left the trustees were never disclosed, but Egerton-Vernon explained that Rovers would be subsidised by other assets in the Walker portfolio, which included property and the Jersey-based airline, Flybe. "There seems to be a misunderstanding that there is an ever-shrinking pot of money available," he said. "That is not the case. There are other businesses apart from the club which generate profits which are available."
From 2002 the Walker Family Trust donated £3million a year to the club, helping to give it a competitive edge over similar sized clubs.
In 2005, with the £3m that was loaned interest-free to the club, the Walker investment in Blackburn Rovers had reached £97million.
Then, finally, the trustees decided they had spent enough.
Jack Walker had charged them with growing his businesses financially and, although they did not explain their decision, it is assumed they viewed the club as a drain. The family, although the beneficiaries of their father's estate, were not understood to have had any formal involvement in its administration.
And so in the summer of 2005 the trustees of the Jack Walker Settlement decided to sell the club, and appointed the bank Rothschild, which previously handled the disastrous sale of Liverpool to Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to find the right buyer for Rovers. Chris Ronnie, the chief executive of retailer JJB Sports, had publicly declared his interest and was said by informed sources to be ahead of any other parties that were looking at the club.
In 2006, Blackburn Rovers announced that Walker's trustees had converted £14m of loans into shares, then in January 2007 they converted a further £80m into shares.
In 2007 the Walker Family Trust stop funding the club.
It was a little-noticed paragraph in the club's accounts, published in January 2008, which announced that the trustees had stopped funding the club back in 2007.
The news was phrased somewhat obliquely by John Williams, the chairman, generally admired as a shrewd guiding force. He insisted the decision was not irreversible. "Given the new TV deal, the trustees see no immediate requirement to invest further (having donated £3m a year since 2002)," he wrote. "In a climate of emerging markets overseas, buoyant domestic TV revenues and rarity value leading to capital growth, they are in no hurry to sell. Focus is on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty."
John Williams hoped the search for a new owner would bring in a football enthusiast, prepared to take a bet on a club with potential, rather than a merchant bringing debt or eyeing a quick profit.
Enter the Venky's, SEM, Kentaro, Jerome Anderson and Steve Kean.
When the Venky's bought Blackburn Rovers in 2011, it was not a football club in free-fall, it was not a football club that was in decline; it was a progressive and steady football club skillfully guided by John Williams and his team.
After the Venky's takeover:
2010-2011 Season: Sam Allardyce sacked 13 Dec 2010
2010-2011 Season: Steve Kean appointed manager till the end of the season 22 Dec 2010
2010-2011 Season: Letter written by senior figures at Blackburn Rovers to the club’s co-owner expressing concerns at the way the club was being run. 4 Jan 2011
2010-2011 Season: With poor results and the threat of relegation, Kean handed 3 year contract. 20 Jan 2011
2010-2011 Season: Chairman John Williams resigns from Blackburn Rovers after 14 years. Feb 2011
2010-2011 Season: Managing Director Tom Finn resigns from Blackburn Rovers after 15 years. May 2011
2010-2011 Season: Blackburn Survive in the Premier League on the final day of the season. 22 May 2011
During pre season: Manchester United confirmed that they had reached an agreement to sign promising Rovers starlet Phil Jones on a five-year deal for an undisclosed transfer fee, which was believed to be at least £16.5m. This was a huge blow the team and the fans; Phil Jones was a local Lancashire lad, Rovers fan and an integral part of the team and a product of Jack Walkers legacy - The Blackburn Rovers Youth Academy. 13 Jun 2011
During pre season: Myles Anderson the son of Jerome Anderson (SEM/Kentaro), signs for Blackburn Rovers, no appearance to date.
2011-2012 Season: Steve Kean banned for drink driving blaming Rovers fans for lacing his drink. 15 Aug 2011
2011-2012 Season: Blackburn Rovers suffered their worst start to a league campaign in 60 years after 1-0 loss to Everton; Kean reveals in interview with the Lancashire Telegraph that he is untroubled by Blackburn Rovers' start to the season. 27 Aug 2011
2011-2012 Season: Fans Stage first Protest. 17 Sep 2011
All this in the context of what had hitherto been a well run football club with excellent lines of open communication with its fans and which was a symbol of pride to the community it represented; something of an oddity in today’s multiplatinum sophisticated world of corporate finance and obscene footballers wages and agent fees.
Some Rovers fans felt that the Venky's clearly knew how to run a business, having built up their own poultry and pharmaceutical empire in India and having passed the Premier League's due diligence test; it was also felt that the Walkers Family Trust would have administered their own due diligence on the Venky's and would not have sold the club to quick profit merchants, risking Jack Walkers legacy.
Opinions of the departure of Phil Jones were mixed but the general consensus was that the promising young player could at least have given Rovers one more season but would eventually have left no matter who was in charge and had at least moved to the biggest football club in the world.
At the same time it was felt by many that Jones' departure was the true end of the Walker Era, it was the final poke in the eye to Jack Walkers legacy; the feeling being that Rovers had now become nothing more than a finishing school for Manchester United. Meanwhile, the national media where completely ignorant of who Phil Jones actually was and what his symbolic and footballing importance to the club and its fans represented.
By now it was becoming increasingly clear that the club was entering a new era - but at least Rovers were playing a better brand of football. The Venky's also kept season ticket prices down, renamed the famous Blackburn End in honour of a club legend - Ronnie Clayton - and had donated the historic and famous Rovers shirt to a worthy charity - The Princes Trust - when it would have been much easier to drop their own brand name on top of the famous Blue 'n' white halves.
And so some Rovers fans were still prepared to give the Venky's a chance to prove themselves, believing that if guilty of anything, they had perhaps been naive: linking the club with footballing superstars was only going to result in mockery - that was not their fault - but that is football snobbery and the culture of the English. The London media does not react so snootily when small mediocre southern clubs like Portsmouth and Fulham are linked with Maradonna but they do when Blackburn Rovers are, because to them, Blackburn is a dirty northern slum town; cloth caps, whippets and cobbled streets.
However naive the Venky's were, it was felt that they needed to improve their PR by attended home games and speaking to the fans on BBC Radio Lancashire or through the Lancashire Telegraph about their vision for the club; even an open fans forum at Ewood Park was mooted - but despite repeated pleas from the fans for communication - silence.
The Venky's completely shunned the Rovers faithful, displaying that peculiarly Indian form of arrogance, hubris - completely ignoring the fans - whom they are there to serve.
It was also becoming increasingly clear that the Venky's felt that they could run the football club from India; summoning Steve Kean, a first time manager with no experience in the role, let alone at one of the most historic clubs in the game, competing in what is considered by many to be the best football league in the world to monthly meetings on the sub continent. Steve Kean was summoned to Pune, India, once a month to discuss progress with the Venky's. This was the only guidance Kean had and many fans felt some sympathy.
Initially, however, the focus of unrest on the slopes of Ewood Park were directed mainly at Steve Kean. After all, he buys the players, sells players, picks the team, chooses the tactics and substitutions and is the main interface between the club, the media and the fans.
It is against this backdrop that the protest movement was born.
For the majority of the fans the protests have become the norm at Ewood Park, as supporters of Blackburn Rovers have voiced their concerns over the direction of the football club that they have supported unconditionally throughout their lives.
Throughout this time the club - now in new hands - have manipulated the media by strategically implementing a smear campaign against its own supporters by painting Steve Kean as the victim.
The protestors have also beendemonised by Jerome Anderson on SKY Sports, Steve Kean and a significant minority of fellow Rovers supporters opposed to the protests; for their efforts, the Protestors have been blamed for the teams poor performances and bad results and labeled "disgusting", a "mob", "the worst fans in the country", and as Kevin Gallacher the former Rovers favourite, to his eternal shame wrote in The Telegraph, "an embarrassment".
The protestors have not only had to endure much ongoing ridicule from their loyal opposites in the national media - but damning criticisms from fans of other clubs around the country - writing and phoning national radio stations, quivering and palpitating with sanctimonious indignation, wagging their fingers, cluck-cluck clucking and tut-tuting at the "horrendous" behaviour of the Blackburn Rovers fans.
There has also been no shortage of pundits, journalists, footballers, ex-footballers, football managers and ex-football mangers queing up to robustly defend Steve Kean and smear the Blackburn Rovers supporters.
One can to some extent understand some of the criticisms from football fans of other clubs, after all, they have been subject to intense media brainwashing as the corporate clique's and their cronies have banded together against the protesting Rovers fans.
And that is the point. These protesting fans represent the 'little man', working-class people desperately trying to cling onto and protect the heritage of a footballing institution that was born in their town during footballs formative years.
This is David and Goliath stuff, the mega money men of SEM, Kentaro, The Venky's, SKY SPORTS, mediocre multi millionaire footballers and parasitic pundits on triple figure salaries who do not pay to watch Premier League football; the most expensive football matches in Europe and footballers who can earn more in one week than many do in 15 years and more in one month than many do in a life time.
To blame the fans of Blackburn Rovers for the plight of the football club is despicable.
It is against this backdrop that the protests continue.
reiko082
says...
10:07pm Thu 10 May 12
Dchampy
says...
10:57pm Thu 10 May 12
glm1970
says...
11:21pm Thu 10 May 12
makaveli96
says...
7:00am Fri 11 May 12
Dchampy wrote:Hes a southern monarch, his views dont count round here!
What about writing to the Prince of Wales - surely he cant be happy that the Prince's Trust "brand" is unfortunately being damaged by its association with BRFC due to Venky's ineptitude?
thera@telkomsa.net
says...
10:16am Fri 11 May 12
craftandgraft wrote:having watched all rovers games on tv here in south africa have come to the conclusion that kean & venkies are not capable of running a club of rovers standard what happened to white from rangers should happen to venkies and kean banned for life before any more damage can be done what ties does keans wife have with venkies is she a sister or what as she seems to be the one pulling the muppets strings bring back the legend tony parks and allan shearer
Why would anyone in a position to expose the truth not do so? It makes no odds if they are involved at BRFC.....they'll get fired anyway. SEM KENTARO have a hold on a lot of people in football and in the media. They are capable of corruption at the highest level and don't care what it takes to get what they want. Geronimo Andyton took a Murderous Overlord to Man City. As fans they can't touch us.....what are they going to do... bomb BLACKBURN ? It's up to us to get rid of them. www.brsit.co.uk Arte et Labore ps Blackburn Olympic were formed in 1873
hugofakenham
says...
12:06pm Fri 11 May 12
Melanie :-) wrote:Melanie, I've in the past accused you of suffering from verbal diarrhoea but I hold my hand up. This is an excellent, well-reasoned and clarifying report.I hope you get your wish.... your club back in the hands of responsible owners with a competent manager that the fans can trust.
Visit this web site. http://ewoodpark.jim do.com Introduction: There have been unacceptable levels of abuse aimed at Blackburn Rovers supporters from the national media, footballers, football managers and football fans throughout the country since the protest's against Steve Kean, The Venky's and Jerome Anderson began. I hope that the information on this page will go some way towards redressing that. I am totally biased. There is nothing impartial in anything I write about Blackburn Rovers, the Protest Movement or Steve Kean, Jerome Anderson and The Venky's. I support the actions of the various protest groups 100%. I support the actions of any spontanious organic protests as and when they arise 100%. I support Blackburn Rovers Football Club 100%. 0% Steve Kean. 0% Jerome Anderson. 0% Venky's. There has been too much disrespect shown, particularly in the corporate media towards the protestors, their aims and their objectives. Therefore, it is left to alternative media sources such as this to provide some perspective. However, in some cases I have relied upon corporate media sources for some information as there have been honourable individual exceptions - but that does not alter the fact that the corporate media as an institution has in most cases treated the protesters with disdain. It is an obvious though seldom acknowledged reality that Steve Kean had nine months as manager of Blackburn Rovers before a single protest began. So, why did the protest movement begin? This is an important question, to understand the protest movement we must first understand the context within which it arose. Blackburn Rovers were once regarded as one of the most efficiently and well administered football clubs in English football. A model football club, a model to emulate and imitate - and many did try to "do a Blackburn" - but failed. Above all, Blackburn Rovers represented something of an anomaly, regarded as a huge football club - in a small town; perhaps the only football club in world football to be thought of as such - a beacon of hope to 'under dogs' everywhere, yet resented at the same time: A well respected club within the game but despised by neutral fans jealous of the clubs stature and historical significance and disliked in the corporate media based largely in London, resentful of a small northern town football club's plucky resilience. This is to be expected. England resents success. BRFC and its supporters have long been despised for winning The Premier League in 1995. Four months before he died in 2001, Jack Walker gave an interview to reassure Blackburn Rovers supporters that he had made provision for the club. "A number of years ago I put in place a family trust structure to own my various business interests, including Blackburn Rovers," he explained. "This structure ensures continuity of management and provides the necessary financial support for all my businesses for the foreseeable future. I have made known my wishes to my colleagues, whom I am confident will carry forward the policies necessary to promote and enlarge all my business interests." The trust, which was registered in Jersey, was run by a board of trustees. They rarely spoke publicly, but when Jack Walker died the trust chairman, the Jersey solicitor Paul Egerton-Vernon, did make a statement: "The club is provided for the foreseeable future." The terms of the instructions Jack Walker left the trustees were never disclosed, but Egerton-Vernon explained that Rovers would be subsidised by other assets in the Walker portfolio, which included property and the Jersey-based airline, Flybe. "There seems to be a misunderstanding that there is an ever-shrinking pot of money available," he said. "That is not the case. There are other businesses apart from the club which generate profits which are available." From 2002 the Walker Family Trust donated £3million a year to the club, helping to give it a competitive edge over similar sized clubs. In 2005, with the £3m that was loaned interest-free to the club, the Walker investment in Blackburn Rovers had reached £97million. Then, finally, the trustees decided they had spent enough. Jack Walker had charged them with growing his businesses financially and, although they did not explain their decision, it is assumed they viewed the club as a drain. The family, although the beneficiaries of their father's estate, were not understood to have had any formal involvement in its administration. And so in the summer of 2005 the trustees of the Jack Walker Settlement decided to sell the club, and appointed the bank Rothschild, which previously handled the disastrous sale of Liverpool to Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to find the right buyer for Rovers. Chris Ronnie, the chief executive of retailer JJB Sports, had publicly declared his interest and was said by informed sources to be ahead of any other parties that were looking at the club. In 2006, Blackburn Rovers announced that Walker's trustees had converted £14m of loans into shares, then in January 2007 they converted a further £80m into shares. In 2007 the Walker Family Trust stop funding the club. It was a little-noticed paragraph in the club's accounts, published in January 2008, which announced that the trustees had stopped funding the club back in 2007. The news was phrased somewhat obliquely by John Williams, the chairman, generally admired as a shrewd guiding force. He insisted the decision was not irreversible. "Given the new TV deal, the trustees see no immediate requirement to invest further (having donated £3m a year since 2002)," he wrote. "In a climate of emerging markets overseas, buoyant domestic TV revenues and rarity value leading to capital growth, they are in no hurry to sell. Focus is on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty." John Williams hoped the search for a new owner would bring in a football enthusiast, prepared to take a bet on a club with potential, rather than a merchant bringing debt or eyeing a quick profit. Enter the Venky's, SEM, Kentaro, Jerome Anderson and Steve Kean. When the Venky's bought Blackburn Rovers in 2011, it was not a football club in free-fall, it was not a football club that was in decline; it was a progressive and steady football club skillfully guided by John Williams and his team. After the Venky's takeover: 2010-2011 Season: Sam Allardyce sacked 13 Dec 2010 2010-2011 Season: Steve Kean appointed manager till the end of the season 22 Dec 2010 2010-2011 Season: Letter written by senior figures at Blackburn Rovers to the club’s co-owner expressing concerns at the way the club was being run. 4 Jan 2011 2010-2011 Season: With poor results and the threat of relegation, Kean handed 3 year contract. 20 Jan 2011 2010-2011 Season: Chairman John Williams resigns from Blackburn Rovers after 14 years. Feb 2011 2010-2011 Season: Managing Director Tom Finn resigns from Blackburn Rovers after 15 years. May 2011 2010-2011 Season: Blackburn Survive in the Premier League on the final day of the season. 22 May 2011 During pre season: Manchester United confirmed that they had reached an agreement to sign promising Rovers starlet Phil Jones on a five-year deal for an undisclosed transfer fee, which was believed to be at least £16.5m. This was a huge blow the team and the fans; Phil Jones was a local Lancashire lad, Rovers fan and an integral part of the team and a product of Jack Walkers legacy - The Blackburn Rovers Youth Academy. 13 Jun 2011 During pre season: Myles Anderson the son of Jerome Anderson (SEM/Kentaro), signs for Blackburn Rovers, no appearance to date. 2011-2012 Season: Steve Kean banned for drink driving blaming Rovers fans for lacing his drink. 15 Aug 2011 2011-2012 Season: Blackburn Rovers suffered their worst start to a league campaign in 60 years after 1-0 loss to Everton; Kean reveals in interview with the Lancashire Telegraph that he is untroubled by Blackburn Rovers' start to the season. 27 Aug 2011 2011-2012 Season: Fans Stage first Protest. 17 Sep 2011 All this in the context of what had hitherto been a well run football club with excellent lines of open communication with its fans and which was a symbol of pride to the community it represented; something of an oddity in today’s multiplatinum sophisticated world of corporate finance and obscene footballers wages and agent fees. Some Rovers fans felt that the Venky's clearly knew how to run a business, having built up their own poultry and pharmaceutical empire in India and having passed the Premier League's due diligence test; it was also felt that the Walkers Family Trust would have administered their own due diligence on the Venky's and would not have sold the club to quick profit merchants, risking Jack Walkers legacy. Opinions of the departure of Phil Jones were mixed but the general consensus was that the promising young player could at least have given Rovers one more season but would eventually have left no matter who was in charge and had at least moved to the biggest football club in the world. At the same time it was felt by many that Jones' departure was the true end of the Walker Era, it was the final poke in the eye to Jack Walkers legacy; the feeling being that Rovers had now become nothing more than a finishing school for Manchester United. Meanwhile, the national media where completely ignorant of who Phil Jones actually was and what his symbolic and footballing importance to the club and its fans represented. By now it was becoming increasingly clear that the club was entering a new era - but at least Rovers were playing a better brand of football. The Venky's also kept season ticket prices down, renamed the famous Blackburn End in honour of a club legend - Ronnie Clayton - and had donated the historic and famous Rovers shirt to a worthy charity - The Princes Trust - when it would have been much easier to drop their own brand name on top of the famous Blue 'n' white halves. And so some Rovers fans were still prepared to give the Venky's a chance to prove themselves, believing that if guilty of anything, they had perhaps been naive: linking the club with footballing superstars was only going to result in mockery - that was not their fault - but that is football snobbery and the culture of the English. The London media does not react so snootily when small mediocre southern clubs like Portsmouth and Fulham are linked with Maradonna but they do when Blackburn Rovers are, because to them, Blackburn is a dirty northern slum town; cloth caps, whippets and cobbled streets. However naive the Venky's were, it was felt that they needed to improve their PR by attended home games and speaking to the fans on BBC Radio Lancashire or through the Lancashire Telegraph about their vision for the club; even an open fans forum at Ewood Park was mooted - but despite repeated pleas from the fans for communication - silence. The Venky's completely shunned the Rovers faithful, displaying that peculiarly Indian form of arrogance, hubris - completely ignoring the fans - whom they are there to serve. It was also becoming increasingly clear that the Venky's felt that they could run the football club from India; summoning Steve Kean, a first time manager with no experience in the role, let alone at one of the most historic clubs in the game, competing in what is considered by many to be the best football league in the world to monthly meetings on the sub continent. Steve Kean was summoned to Pune, India, once a month to discuss progress with the Venky's. This was the only guidance Kean had and many fans felt some sympathy. Initially, however, the focus of unrest on the slopes of Ewood Park were directed mainly at Steve Kean. After all, he buys the players, sells players, picks the team, chooses the tactics and substitutions and is the main interface between the club, the media and the fans. It is against this backdrop that the protest movement was born. For the majority of the fans the protests have become the norm at Ewood Park, as supporters of Blackburn Rovers have voiced their concerns over the direction of the football club that they have supported unconditionally throughout their lives. Throughout this time the club - now in new hands - have manipulated the media by strategically implementing a smear campaign against its own supporters by painting Steve Kean as the victim. The protestors have also beendemonised by Jerome Anderson on SKY Sports, Steve Kean and a significant minority of fellow Rovers supporters opposed to the protests; for their efforts, the Protestors have been blamed for the teams poor performances and bad results and labeled "disgusting", a "mob", "the worst fans in the country", and as Kevin Gallacher the former Rovers favourite, to his eternal shame wrote in The Telegraph, "an embarrassment". The protestors have not only had to endure much ongoing ridicule from their loyal opposites in the national media - but damning criticisms from fans of other clubs around the country - writing and phoning national radio stations, quivering and palpitating with sanctimonious indignation, wagging their fingers, cluck-cluck clucking and tut-tuting at the "horrendous" behaviour of the Blackburn Rovers fans. There has also been no shortage of pundits, journalists, footballers, ex-footballers, football managers and ex-football mangers queing up to robustly defend Steve Kean and smear the Blackburn Rovers supporters. One can to some extent understand some of the criticisms from football fans of other clubs, after all, they have been subject to intense media brainwashing as the corporate clique's and their cronies have banded together against the protesting Rovers fans. And that is the point. These protesting fans represent the 'little man', working-class people desperately trying to cling onto and protect the heritage of a footballing institution that was born in their town during footballs formative years. This is David and Goliath stuff, the mega money men of SEM, Kentaro, The Venky's, SKY SPORTS, mediocre multi millionaire footballers and parasitic pundits on triple figure salaries who do not pay to watch Premier League football; the most expensive football matches in Europe and footballers who can earn more in one week than many do in 15 years and more in one month than many do in a life time. To blame the fans of Blackburn Rovers for the plight of the football club is despicable. It is against this backdrop that the protests continue.
Regards

b12simon says...
11:50am Thu 10 May 12