Column: The mixed-up world of morality politics

10:31am Tuesday 17th April 2012 in Rev Kevin Logan column Photograph of the Author By Rev Kevin Logan, Lancashire Telegraph columnist

Something odd’s happening in our council chambers, I noticed during a Hyndburn planning committee meeting.

Labour is historically strong on moral rights and wrongs concerning the poor, women and various minorities – caring socialism. Conservatives traditionally back business and the creation of greater wealth – concerned capitalism.

So, when a lap-dancing club wants planning permission to open in town, you’d confidently back Tories to support it while socialists, famed for their championing of women, would object to lasses becoming sex objects.

Amazingly, the reverse is true in Accrington. The blues rooted for the moral issue, demanding a review of the original decision to approve lap dancing, while the reds focused only on business. Maybe one planning committee councillor’s words give a clue. After I and others had explained how a lap dancing bar was inappropriate in a conservation area, the councillor dismissed us as contributing ‘nothing but moral arguments’.

Maybe his dismissal of morals explains it. Some councillors are under the sad impression that they can no longer consider moral rights and wrongs but merely follow rules and procedure.

When councillors bury their heads and conscie-nces in legal red tape, the most ungodly and disastr-ous decisions can occur.

Admirably, one lady Labour councillor did clearly stand up for womanhood and helped to split the planning committee right down the middle.

Unfortunately, the Labour chairman then cast his deciding vote for lap-dancing.

Comments (59)

11:14am Tue 17 Apr 12

Excluded again says...

Planning Committees have to follow planning law. If an activity is legal, then rejecting an application on non-planning grounds (such as your own moral views) is an abuse of process. The applicant would simply appeal to the planning inspectors, win the appeal and the costs be awarded against the Council.

Councillors obey the law of the land. Outrageous.
Planning Committees have to follow planning law. If an activity is legal, then rejecting an application on non-planning grounds (such as your own moral views) is an abuse of process. The applicant would simply appeal to the planning inspectors, win the appeal and the costs be awarded against the Council. Councillors obey the law of the land. Outrageous. Excluded again

11:56am Tue 17 Apr 12

louderfasterlonger says...

We all look to our own morals when making conscious decisions which include whether or not to visit these establishments.
It is not up to the council to instill or even police ones morals.
Personally, I believe lawful business should be encouraged, although market research would have suggested that if The Velvet Lounge couldn't survive in Blackburn, then this establishment has no chance.
Preach to your flock Kev and reach out to their moral conscience, if you're successful, the place will close, if you are not, it will thrive.
Perhaps joining forces with the council of mosques would be a pivotal strategy.
We all look to our own morals when making conscious decisions which include whether or not to visit these establishments. It is not up to the council to instill or even police ones morals. Personally, I believe lawful business should be encouraged, although market research would have suggested that if The Velvet Lounge couldn't survive in Blackburn, then this establishment has no chance. Preach to your flock Kev and reach out to their moral conscience, if you're successful, the place will close, if you are not, it will thrive. Perhaps joining forces with the council of mosques would be a pivotal strategy. louderfasterlonger

12:51pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The igody club has been going on for two thousand years and you couldn't buy publicity like your crusade will provide them for free.


.


Any one would be forgiven for thinking religious publicity was free in the LT.
The igody club has been going on for two thousand years and you couldn't buy publicity like your crusade will provide them for free. . Any one would be forgiven for thinking religious publicity was free in the LT. Ken Shuffles

1:07pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Sit still and let this Moment dance for you. When you are empty, This Moment is still here and it will keep fulfilling you.


.


There are no doubts between the beauty of this moment and you.
Sit still and let this Moment dance for you. When you are empty, This Moment is still here and it will keep fulfilling you. . There are no doubts between the beauty of this moment and you. Ken Shuffles

1:10pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals.
If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals. Ken Shuffles

1:12pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

...... or between sermons, morals, appointments and plans.....
...... or between sermons, morals, appointments and plans..... Ken Shuffles

7:40pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Revkev says...

Excluded again wrote:
Planning Committees have to follow planning law. If an activity is legal, then rejecting an application on non-planning grounds (such as your own moral views) is an abuse of process. The applicant would simply appeal to the planning inspectors, win the appeal and the costs be awarded against the Council.

Councillors obey the law of the land. Outrageous.
Hi Excluded again,
Perhaps I should have explained that there were legal planning grounds to reject the lap dancing application.
This is why half of the committee ruled against granting planning permission.
.
They ruled it was 'out of character' or 'detrimental to the town's amenities', and these were the legal planning grounds on which we protested.
The councillor who dismissed our arguments as 'moral' was wrong.
.
However, for him to dismiss morals as inconsequential was, I felt, a problem.
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: Planning Committees have to follow planning law. If an activity is legal, then rejecting an application on non-planning grounds (such as your own moral views) is an abuse of process. The applicant would simply appeal to the planning inspectors, win the appeal and the costs be awarded against the Council. Councillors obey the law of the land. Outrageous.[/p][/quote]Hi Excluded again, Perhaps I should have explained that there were legal planning grounds to reject the lap dancing application. This is why half of the committee ruled against granting planning permission. . They ruled it was 'out of character' or 'detrimental to the town's amenities', and these were the legal planning grounds on which we protested. The councillor who dismissed our arguments as 'moral' was wrong. . However, for him to dismiss morals as inconsequential was, I felt, a problem. Revkev

7:42pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Revkev says...

louderfasterlonger wrote:
We all look to our own morals when making conscious decisions which include whether or not to visit these establishments.
It is not up to the council to instill or even police ones morals.
Personally, I believe lawful business should be encouraged, although market research would have suggested that if The Velvet Lounge couldn't survive in Blackburn, then this establishment has no chance.
Preach to your flock Kev and reach out to their moral conscience, if you're successful, the place will close, if you are not, it will thrive.
Perhaps joining forces with the council of mosques would be a pivotal strategy.
hI LOUDERFASTERLONGER,
The mosques of Accrington did in fact join in the objection.
[quote][p][bold]louderfasterlonger[/bold] wrote: We all look to our own morals when making conscious decisions which include whether or not to visit these establishments. It is not up to the council to instill or even police ones morals. Personally, I believe lawful business should be encouraged, although market research would have suggested that if The Velvet Lounge couldn't survive in Blackburn, then this establishment has no chance. Preach to your flock Kev and reach out to their moral conscience, if you're successful, the place will close, if you are not, it will thrive. Perhaps joining forces with the council of mosques would be a pivotal strategy.[/p][/quote]hI LOUDERFASTERLONGER, The mosques of Accrington did in fact join in the objection. Revkev

7:50pm Tue 17 Apr 12

Revkev says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals.
Hi Ken,
I admired the moment the Planning Committee made their decision.
.
It was so close, I thought we'd won for a moment.
However, what we did establish was that objection to the lap dancing club had increased to the point where it was decided only by a single deciding vote.
.
This encourages us to carry on until August/September when the club has to apply for a new sexual entertainment licence.
.
Of course, that is if the owners go ahead with their plans.
I would not like to spend several thousand pounds refurbishing a place that might not get a renewal of its licence.
.
The deciding vote next time could easily go the other way.
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals.[/p][/quote]Hi Ken, I admired the moment the Planning Committee made their decision. . It was so close, I thought we'd won for a moment. However, what we did establish was that objection to the lap dancing club had increased to the point where it was decided only by a single deciding vote. . This encourages us to carry on until August/September when the club has to apply for a new sexual entertainment licence. . Of course, that is if the owners go ahead with their plans. I would not like to spend several thousand pounds refurbishing a place that might not get a renewal of its licence. . The deciding vote next time could easily go the other way. Revkev

12:13am Wed 18 Apr 12

nice person says...

I find it hypocrytical,if you don't agree with these type of places simply stay away. I would prefer more concentrated efforts to rid us of the manipulating beliefs of others we are forced to live with more damaging.
I find it hypocrytical,if you don't agree with these type of places simply stay away. I would prefer more concentrated efforts to rid us of the manipulating beliefs of others we are forced to live with more damaging. nice person

10:57am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Hi nice person,

I agree, what we all need is that love we promised we would keep forever.


.


Kevin is just making a big moral and convoluted thing out of what is really just a small amount of drivel behind closed doors.


.


Is there more or is there less of the lap-drivel of mankind, because of religious morality codes and lap dancing planning regulations put together or, has this life, this moment, got something to do with people feeling and being fulfilled forever ?
Hi nice person, I agree, what we all need is that love we promised we would keep forever. . Kevin is just making a big moral and convoluted thing out of what is really just a small amount of drivel behind closed doors. . Is there more or is there less of the lap-drivel of mankind, because of religious morality codes and lap dancing planning regulations put together or, has this life, this moment, got something to do with people feeling and being fulfilled forever ? Ken Shuffles

11:00am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Why don't you open a competing club where christian women dance with their clothes still on ?
Why don't you open a competing club where christian women dance with their clothes still on ? Ken Shuffles

11:04am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Has there ever been a time on this earth when the laws and morals and politics of man were not corrupted compromised. FFS it's become a tradition.....
Has there ever been a time on this earth when the laws and morals and politics of man were not corrupted compromised. FFS it's become a tradition..... Ken Shuffles

11:05am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

People need fulfilling!!!!!
People need fulfilling!!!!! Ken Shuffles

11:22am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Revkev wrote:
Ken Shuffles wrote: If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals.
Hi Ken, I admired the moment the Planning Committee made their decision. . It was so close, I thought we'd won for a moment. However, what we did establish was that objection to the lap dancing club had increased to the point where it was decided only by a single deciding vote. . This encourages us to carry on until August/September when the club has to apply for a new sexual entertainment licence. . Of course, that is if the owners go ahead with their plans. I would not like to spend several thousand pounds refurbishing a place that might not get a renewal of its licence. . The deciding vote next time could easily go the other way.
The New incoming archbishop of the Church of England will have to take full responsibility for fulfilling the Human condition, the heart and soul of each christian, whatever the current condition, or core values of that christian may be.


.


If he cannot, or is unable to take the responsibility to fulfill a person from the top of their heart to the bottom of their soul to the tips of their toes then he is an imposter and a fraud.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: If we can't admire each moment, we are just stumbling about in the dark between meals.[/p][/quote]Hi Ken, I admired the moment the Planning Committee made their decision. . It was so close, I thought we'd won for a moment. However, what we did establish was that objection to the lap dancing club had increased to the point where it was decided only by a single deciding vote. . This encourages us to carry on until August/September when the club has to apply for a new sexual entertainment licence. . Of course, that is if the owners go ahead with their plans. I would not like to spend several thousand pounds refurbishing a place that might not get a renewal of its licence. . The deciding vote next time could easily go the other way.[/p][/quote]The New incoming archbishop of the Church of England will have to take full responsibility for fulfilling the Human condition, the heart and soul of each christian, whatever the current condition, or core values of that christian may be. . If he cannot, or is unable to take the responsibility to fulfill a person from the top of their heart to the bottom of their soul to the tips of their toes then he is an imposter and a fraud. Ken Shuffles

11:24am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

As the song goes,....from the top to the bottom to the middle to the end.......
As the song goes,....from the top to the bottom to the middle to the end....... Ken Shuffles

11:36am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Without such a person, such a moment, such a kindness, such a being here on earth, there is no eternal light, no eternal love and no eternal life, anywhere here on earth, or in any book, or in any building, philosophy, or social creed or political belief system we are fumbling with in the darkness between meals.
Without such a person, such a moment, such a kindness, such a being here on earth, there is no eternal light, no eternal love and no eternal life, anywhere here on earth, or in any book, or in any building, philosophy, or social creed or political belief system we are fumbling with in the darkness between meals. Ken Shuffles

11:53am Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The Soul of the Person needs fulfilling forever.


.


Not just for a few decades, a few years, or for a few months, not just the fortnight of the moon, not just a week, not just for a day, for an hour, a minute, a second but each and every moment, and for as long as a soul exists, the soul of that person will need all the love that has been placed in this moment to fulfill them.


.


There isn't enough fulfilment on earth for the soul. So....
The Soul of the Person needs fulfilling forever. . Not just for a few decades, a few years, or for a few months, not just the fortnight of the moon, not just a week, not just for a day, for an hour, a minute, a second but each and every moment, and for as long as a soul exists, the soul of that person will need all the love that has been placed in this moment to fulfill them. . There isn't enough fulfilment on earth for the soul. So.... Ken Shuffles

12:01pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Are you looking for people who can invest in This Moment.?
Are you looking for people who can invest in This Moment.? Ken Shuffles

12:03pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Or have you just been looking for something you haven't ever lost.
Or have you just been looking for something you haven't ever lost. Ken Shuffles

12:06pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

No disrespect to outgoing archbish. Talk about an impossible task. I think he deserves his pension.
No disrespect to outgoing archbish. Talk about an impossible task. I think he deserves his pension. Ken Shuffles

12:56pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Caspar the ghost says...

Is this the Ken Shuffles show?
Is this the Ken Shuffles show? Caspar the ghost

1:52pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

I'm just the ticket.
I'm just the ticket. Ken Shuffles

2:00pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

What could be the cost of eternity ? one head, two arms four toes 3 lifetimes with no mistakes, what ? How much should forever cost, a show that lasts forever, how can there ever be a charge or price equal to all that lasts forever.
What could be the cost of eternity ? one head, two arms four toes 3 lifetimes with no mistakes, what ? How much should forever cost, a show that lasts forever, how can there ever be a charge or price equal to all that lasts forever. Ken Shuffles

2:11pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The eternal desire to be happy and the infinite consciousness and the moment that lasts forever are three things that have just fallen into your circumstantial lap like three beautiful perfect puppies.


.


What do you make of that Casper ?.... what do you make of that ?.....
The eternal desire to be happy and the infinite consciousness and the moment that lasts forever are three things that have just fallen into your circumstantial lap like three beautiful perfect puppies. . What do you make of that Casper ?.... what do you make of that ?..... Ken Shuffles

2:13pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

.....Just your desire to be happy is eternally beautiful......
.....Just your desire to be happy is eternally beautiful...... Ken Shuffles

2:13pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

It's certainly cool.
It's certainly cool. Ken Shuffles

2:51pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Even if the desire to be happy was impossible to fulfill, (which is an impossibility that never has been) it would still be the most beautiful and eternal desire.
Even if the desire to be happy was impossible to fulfill, (which is an impossibility that never has been) it would still be the most beautiful and eternal desire. Ken Shuffles

2:58pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Just the desire, just the hint of that one desire to fulfill your soul is so fulfilling it's enough to make you and your soul both happy.
Just the desire, just the hint of that one desire to fulfill your soul is so fulfilling it's enough to make you and your soul both happy. Ken Shuffles

3:06pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

This Moment, is the only place you can exist and be happy. This Moment is the only place where you and your happiness actually exist together in the same place. fortunately for you, it is also the only place where your desire for happiness is actually fulfilled.
This Moment, is the only place you can exist and be happy. This Moment is the only place where you and your happiness actually exist together in the same place. fortunately for you, it is also the only place where your desire for happiness is actually fulfilled. Ken Shuffles

4:37pm Wed 18 Apr 12

EricWatson says...

Sexual freedon is for everyone.
Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that.
Your protection of women argument is a red herring.

I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy.

Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.
Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments. EricWatson

4:53pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Caspar the ghost says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
The eternal desire to be happy and the infinite consciousness and the moment that lasts forever are three things that have just fallen into your circumstantial lap like three beautiful perfect puppies.


.


What do you make of that Casper ?.... what do you make of that ?.....
Errr, are the men with white coats coming for you?

Or is it just a case of Verbal Diarrhoea?
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: The eternal desire to be happy and the infinite consciousness and the moment that lasts forever are three things that have just fallen into your circumstantial lap like three beautiful perfect puppies. . What do you make of that Casper ?.... what do you make of that ?.....[/p][/quote]Errr, are the men with white coats coming for you? Or is it just a case of Verbal Diarrhoea? Caspar the ghost

11:16pm Wed 18 Apr 12

Revkev says...

EricWatson wrote:
Sexual freedon is for everyone.
Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that.
Your protection of women argument is a red herring.

I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy.

Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.
Hi Eric,
Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles.
.
I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all.
.
Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?
[quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.[/p][/quote]Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere? Revkev

10:36am Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Kevin,


What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ?


.


As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark.
Kevin, What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ? . As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark. Ken Shuffles

10:52am Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The rapist and the peodophile have been given the same as any priest. They have each been given a moment to be, they have each been given a consciousness to be with and they have each been given a simple desire to feel beautifully fulfilled and happy.


.


How much do people value their own desire to be happy. Are they attracted to that desire? How beautiful is that desire.?


.


Your own desire to be happy has something to do with your consciousness and it has something to do with this moment.


.


We should all be careful what god, what demon, what other mis information and what other wants and desires, we invite into our own consciousness to love. What ever else we venerate has other consequences.
The rapist and the peodophile have been given the same as any priest. They have each been given a moment to be, they have each been given a consciousness to be with and they have each been given a simple desire to feel beautifully fulfilled and happy. . How much do people value their own desire to be happy. Are they attracted to that desire? How beautiful is that desire.? . Your own desire to be happy has something to do with your consciousness and it has something to do with this moment. . We should all be careful what god, what demon, what other mis information and what other wants and desires, we invite into our own consciousness to love. What ever else we venerate has other consequences. Ken Shuffles

12:53pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Suffering is not legitimate for anyone. Jesus left no room for suffering under ANY circumstances, and He refused to let suffering and the effect of other ambiguous disturbances enter his own consciousness at any moment.
Suffering is not legitimate for anyone. Jesus left no room for suffering under ANY circumstances, and He refused to let suffering and the effect of other ambiguous disturbances enter his own consciousness at any moment. Ken Shuffles

1:00pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

What use is a moral remedy when fulfilment is without symptoms.


.


If your soul is not fulfilling you there will be symptoms.
What use is a moral remedy when fulfilment is without symptoms. . If your soul is not fulfilling you there will be symptoms. Ken Shuffles

1:06pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Mumbling about in the darkness between belief and disbelief, has not and cannot remove these symptoms from the human condition.
Mumbling about in the darkness between belief and disbelief, has not and cannot remove these symptoms from the human condition. Ken Shuffles

1:09pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

How happy and fulfilled does your own desire to be happy and fulfilled make you happy and fulfilled is a question worthy of addressing.
How happy and fulfilled does your own desire to be happy and fulfilled make you happy and fulfilled is a question worthy of addressing. Ken Shuffles

1:14pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Caspar,


.


The Soul needs fulfillment or nothing will work properly. There may have been a time when we thought all that was required was emotional, mental and physical satisfaction.
Caspar, . The Soul needs fulfillment or nothing will work properly. There may have been a time when we thought all that was required was emotional, mental and physical satisfaction. Ken Shuffles

1:16pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The desire, the hope, the thirst, the need, the message, the call to be fulfilled, is fulfilling.
The desire, the hope, the thirst, the need, the message, the call to be fulfilled, is fulfilling. Ken Shuffles

1:17pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

There is no such thing as spiritual satisfaction.
There is no such thing as spiritual satisfaction. Ken Shuffles

1:23pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

You know, if your soul is fulfilling you or not and either way, just knowing that, just knowing that, is a quantum leap of understanding.
You know, if your soul is fulfilling you or not and either way, just knowing that, just knowing that, is a quantum leap of understanding. Ken Shuffles

1:37pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Does a God, a Man, a Woman fulfill you forever? Will any amount of enormous earthly currency fulfill you forever other than your own soul.?
Does a God, a Man, a Woman fulfill you forever? Will any amount of enormous earthly currency fulfill you forever other than your own soul.? Ken Shuffles

1:40pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Only your own Soul, your own Consciousness can fulfill you forever.
Only your own Soul, your own Consciousness can fulfill you forever. Ken Shuffles

5:22pm Thu 19 Apr 12

Revkev says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
Kevin,


What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ?


.


As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark.
Society has to care, Ken.
.
Protection of the vulnerable in society is a key indicator of civilisation.
.
I thought that would have fitted in nicely with the gospel according to Ken.
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: Kevin, What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ? . As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark.[/p][/quote]Society has to care, Ken. . Protection of the vulnerable in society is a key indicator of civilisation. . I thought that would have fitted in nicely with the gospel according to Ken. Revkev

10:46am Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Society is selective about who it cares for and who it protects. Society may be an indicator of something, but societal care isn't an indicator of a love and a kindness that is eternal, nonselective, unconditional.

.


People need a love and the sort of care that is always there to fulfill them. People need a kindness that is always there to protect them. People need a clarity and an understanding that will never, ever, abandon them.


.


No society, no government or belief system, can ever be a substitute for a love and a kindness and an understanding like that.


.


Nothing is more beautiful or has more potential or power than the original desire to be happy and content, that we all came with. That beautiful desire, we were all born with and that beautiful desire to be happy and content we will all be left with to enjoy at the end.
Society is selective about who it cares for and who it protects. Society may be an indicator of something, but societal care isn't an indicator of a love and a kindness that is eternal, nonselective, unconditional. . People need a love and the sort of care that is always there to fulfill them. People need a kindness that is always there to protect them. People need a clarity and an understanding that will never, ever, abandon them. . No society, no government or belief system, can ever be a substitute for a love and a kindness and an understanding like that. . Nothing is more beautiful or has more potential or power than the original desire to be happy and content, that we all came with. That beautiful desire, we were all born with and that beautiful desire to be happy and content we will all be left with to enjoy at the end. Ken Shuffles

10:56am Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

If we are not fulfilling our own original desire, how can we fulfill the original desire of any other.?
If we are not fulfilling our own original desire, how can we fulfill the original desire of any other.? Ken Shuffles

11:02am Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Unless and until that moment dawns on me when I realise I too can allow myself to enjoy the beauty of my original desire, I have not accomplished anything in this world.
Unless and until that moment dawns on me when I realise I too can allow myself to enjoy the beauty of my original desire, I have not accomplished anything in this world. Ken Shuffles

11:04am Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Thankfully, that particular moment can dawn at anytime.
Thankfully, that particular moment can dawn at anytime. Ken Shuffles

11:14am Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The original desire, looks good on people. It feels good to each person, and it is perfect for each person.
The original desire, looks good on people. It feels good to each person, and it is perfect for each person. Ken Shuffles

3:31pm Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Some religious people may think Tranquility on Earth is a joke, but Tranquility on this Earth WILL rely on all the fulfilling that comes from that original desire.


.


Otherwise, and in respect of that mission and end, nothing of value by religion, science or the natural world, or man has ever been made or unmade so far.
Some religious people may think Tranquility on Earth is a joke, but Tranquility on this Earth WILL rely on all the fulfilling that comes from that original desire. . Otherwise, and in respect of that mission and end, nothing of value by religion, science or the natural world, or man has ever been made or unmade so far. Ken Shuffles

3:38pm Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Revkev wrote:
Ken Shuffles wrote: Kevin, What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ? . As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark.
Society has to care, Ken. . Protection of the vulnerable in society is a key indicator of civilisation. . I thought that would have fitted in nicely with the gospel according to Ken.
God's spells and gospels, are neither evidential or the equal of my presence.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: Kevin, What has the sexual freedoms of other people got to do with you and your book and your god ? . As long as there is sexual freedom in the bed-chamber for me, who cares what others are paying to fumbling about in the dark.[/p][/quote]Society has to care, Ken. . Protection of the vulnerable in society is a key indicator of civilisation. . I thought that would have fitted in nicely with the gospel according to Ken.[/p][/quote]God's spells and gospels, are neither evidential or the equal of my presence. Ken Shuffles

3:50pm Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

Someone on this Earth has to take responsibility for the fulfilling of the original desire because if not, any concept of one peaceful and humane civilisation will just remain an idea.
Someone on this Earth has to take responsibility for the fulfilling of the original desire because if not, any concept of one peaceful and humane civilisation will just remain an idea. Ken Shuffles

3:54pm Fri 20 Apr 12

EricWatson says...

Revkev wrote:
EricWatson wrote:
Sexual freedon is for everyone.
Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that.
Your protection of women argument is a red herring.

I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy.

Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.
Hi Eric,
Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles.
.
I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all.
.
Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?
Consenting adults is a good start.
Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice.

Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.[/p][/quote]Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?[/p][/quote]Consenting adults is a good start. Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice. Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately. EricWatson

3:56pm Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

The vulnerable will be fulfilled.
The vulnerable will be fulfilled. Ken Shuffles

4:02pm Fri 20 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

EricWatson wrote:
Revkev wrote:
EricWatson wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.
Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?
Consenting adults is a good start. Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice. Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately.
To be really honest, if a woman is removing her clothes to advertise her charms and will accept a bribe, what possible chance has any man or adam got of resisting either on or off the premises. ?


.


The maximum most any man can actually do is not seek her services and hope for the best that she doesn't seek you out ahem.... in my opinion.
[quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.[/p][/quote]Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?[/p][/quote]Consenting adults is a good start. Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice. Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately.[/p][/quote]To be really honest, if a woman is removing her clothes to advertise her charms and will accept a bribe, what possible chance has any man or adam got of resisting either on or off the premises. ? . The maximum most any man can actually do is not seek her services and hope for the best that she doesn't seek you out ahem.... in my opinion. Ken Shuffles

4:31pm Fri 20 Apr 12

EricWatson says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
EricWatson wrote:
Revkev wrote:
EricWatson wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.
Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?
Consenting adults is a good start. Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice. Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately.
To be really honest, if a woman is removing her clothes to advertise her charms and will accept a bribe, what possible chance has any man or adam got of resisting either on or off the premises. ?


.


The maximum most any man can actually do is not seek her services and hope for the best that she doesn't seek you out ahem.... in my opinion.
Are you on something?
I must have been to lap dance clubs about 250 times now and never sought "extras" either on or off the premises.
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EricWatson[/bold] wrote: Sexual freedon is for everyone. Just because at this point in time most lap dancers are women and most customers are men, doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Your protection of women argument is a red herring. I look forward to the day when men can dance for men and women and women can dance for men an women in a club like I Canndy. Viva sexual freedom, down with intolerance and bogus "protection of women" arguments.[/p][/quote]Hi Eric, Just so that I understand you aright, you're not advocating sexual freedom for rapists or paedophiles. . I assume you don't actually mean 'viva sexual freedom' for all. . Am I right in assuming that there is a line for you somewhere?[/p][/quote]Consenting adults is a good start. Maybe Labour are pro-choice and the Tories anti-choice. Surprised you brought in paedos and rapists. Thought you were smarter than that. I have demolished that argument immediately.[/p][/quote]To be really honest, if a woman is removing her clothes to advertise her charms and will accept a bribe, what possible chance has any man or adam got of resisting either on or off the premises. ? . The maximum most any man can actually do is not seek her services and hope for the best that she doesn't seek you out ahem.... in my opinion.[/p][/quote]Are you on something? I must have been to lap dance clubs about 250 times now and never sought "extras" either on or off the premises. EricWatson

11:00am Sat 21 Apr 12

Ken Shuffles says...

You must be a woman Eric. Unless you just go for the dancing.
You must be a woman Eric. Unless you just go for the dancing. Ken Shuffles

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