Sad day for town as I Candy opens

12:05pm Monday 5th December 2011 in Rev Kevin Logan column Photograph of the Author By Rev Kevin Logan, Lancashire Telegraph columnist

I’m going to give up lap dancing soon. Promise! I’ve spent two columns on it already in recent weeks, but bear with me for just one more outing as I explain how gasted my flabber is at this week’s turn of events in my dear old home town.

We’d smile if it wasn’t so potentially damaging to our children, to the image of womanhood and the integrity of our whole community in general.

You’ll recall perhaps that the planned sexual entertainment venue, as they call it, is surrounded by sensitive venues like three churches, the town’s library, two tourist centres and just yards away from the bus station, where school kids daily disembark.

What I haven’t mentioned yet is that our council has also been working for five years to develop the area outside the town hall and next door’s Edwardian market hall as a special gathering place for the public of all ages.

Just underneath the said lap dancing club.

And three days ago came the latest oddity. Our leaders are now going to spend thousands redeveloping the grounds of the parish church, just 50 yards from heavyweight henchmen guarding I Candy lap dancers.

Also this week came the staggeringly unwelcome news that I Candy will open from noon, precisely when people of all ages are encouraged to use the area.

It beggars belief. In the very heart of Accrington’s developing all-age public arena we’re planning an adult sexual entertainment venue.

God cries an awful lot when he sees some of our stranger antics.

The shortest verse in the Bible simply says “He wept” as he looked on the sadness of Jerusalem through the eyes of his Son, Jesus.

Conversely, I think the devil must be having a field day.

Comments (45)

12:24pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

You have certainly given the place a bit of extra publicity.


ps tourist centres and accrington ????
You have certainly given the place a bit of extra publicity. ps tourist centres and accrington ???? Joseph Yossarian

12:34pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

Having visited Jerusalem recently, I'm not surprised it would make somebody cry.
The city is like one "life of brian" theme park with different types of religious extremists trying to gain superiority over each other. It is a glorious advertisement for all the contradictions and hypocricies of religions.

Amsterdam, on the other hand, that big sex shop theme park, certainly feels safer, more humane, more considerate and a lot less judgemental. There are certainly a lot less people with guns around and there is no massive wall in the middle of the city to separate one tribe of the sons of abraham from another tribe of the sons of abraham

Taken to extremes, one could suggest that more sexual entertainment leads to safer towns and more religion leads to the opposite.

There's a good nightclub in south London called "mass". Former church, good to see it being put to some use.
Having visited Jerusalem recently, I'm not surprised it would make somebody cry. The city is like one "life of brian" theme park with different types of religious extremists trying to gain superiority over each other. It is a glorious advertisement for all the contradictions and hypocricies of religions. Amsterdam, on the other hand, that big sex shop theme park, certainly feels safer, more humane, more considerate and a lot less judgemental. There are certainly a lot less people with guns around and there is no massive wall in the middle of the city to separate one tribe of the sons of abraham from another tribe of the sons of abraham Taken to extremes, one could suggest that more sexual entertainment leads to safer towns and more religion leads to the opposite. There's a good nightclub in south London called "mass". Former church, good to see it being put to some use. Joseph Yossarian

1:00pm Mon 5 Dec 11

accylass85 says...

for gods sake, it is a lap dancing club it is not illegal, it is not an embarressment, if it drags 18 year old thugs off the streets to watch beautiful women dancing instead of sniffing cocaine and popping ectasy which by the way you complain about also..... then what is the problem... men and women both enjoy watching this it is entertainment and it is a job for some young women that cannot find a job else where but are at least willing to work which is more than i can say for the rest of this town!!!! find something worth complaining about instead of a bloody lapdancing club!
for gods sake, it is a lap dancing club it is not illegal, it is not an embarressment, if it drags 18 year old thugs off the streets to watch beautiful women dancing instead of sniffing cocaine and popping ectasy which by the way you complain about also..... then what is the problem... men and women both enjoy watching this it is entertainment and it is a job for some young women that cannot find a job else where but are at least willing to work which is more than i can say for the rest of this town!!!! find something worth complaining about instead of a bloody lapdancing club! accylass85

5:23pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Aslam Hussain says...

They will probably have already sniffed Cocaine and Popped Ectasy . . . before starting their 'Dance' routines !!
No self respect comes to mind. . .
They will probably have already sniffed Cocaine and Popped Ectasy . . . before starting their 'Dance' routines !! No self respect comes to mind. . . Aslam Hussain

5:59pm Mon 5 Dec 11

DJ_Jaybee says...

Very judgemental.

For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent...

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM
v8&feature=share
Very judgemental. For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM v8&feature=share DJ_Jaybee

10:10pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Revkev says...

Joseph Yossarian wrote:
You have certainly given the place a bit of extra publicity.


ps tourist centres and accrington ????
Hi Joe
That's the downside of protesting, isn't it?
Still, worth it if it stops it opening.
.
Tourism!
Are you, by any chance, casting aspersions on tourists coming to quaint old Accy?
[quote][p][bold]Joseph Yossarian[/bold] wrote: You have certainly given the place a bit of extra publicity. ps tourist centres and accrington ????[/p][/quote]Hi Joe That's the downside of protesting, isn't it? Still, worth it if it stops it opening. . Tourism! Are you, by any chance, casting aspersions on tourists coming to quaint old Accy? Revkev

10:24pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Revkev says...

accylass85 wrote:
for gods sake, it is a lap dancing club it is not illegal, it is not an embarressment, if it drags 18 year old thugs off the streets to watch beautiful women dancing instead of sniffing cocaine and popping ectasy which by the way you complain about also..... then what is the problem... men and women both enjoy watching this it is entertainment and it is a job for some young women that cannot find a job else where but are at least willing to work which is more than i can say for the rest of this town!!!! find something worth complaining about instead of a bloody lapdancing club!
Hi accylass,
I'm not sure Sexual Entertainment Venues are the right solution for "18 year old thugs" who are "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy".
Sex, as you know, is another human appetite, like drugs. Lap dancing bars have helped to tip that out of balance for quite a few.
[quote][p][bold]accylass85[/bold] wrote: for gods sake, it is a lap dancing club it is not illegal, it is not an embarressment, if it drags 18 year old thugs off the streets to watch beautiful women dancing instead of sniffing cocaine and popping ectasy which by the way you complain about also..... then what is the problem... men and women both enjoy watching this it is entertainment and it is a job for some young women that cannot find a job else where but are at least willing to work which is more than i can say for the rest of this town!!!! find something worth complaining about instead of a bloody lapdancing club![/p][/quote]Hi accylass, I'm not sure Sexual Entertainment Venues are the right solution for "18 year old thugs" who are "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy". Sex, as you know, is another human appetite, like drugs. Lap dancing bars have helped to tip that out of balance for quite a few. Revkev

10:35pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Revkev says...

DJ_Jaybee wrote:
Very judgemental.

For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent...

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM

v8&feature=share
Hi DJ
Brilliant talent. Equal to anything seen in an Olympic sport.
This performer treats dancing as an athletic discipline and the last thing I find myself thinking of is sex. I'm just amazed at her skill and strength.
.
No so with the lap dancing in general. It's about erotic stimulation with men seeing women as sex objects rather athletic heroes.
[quote][p][bold]DJ_Jaybee[/bold] wrote: Very judgemental. For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM v8&feature=share[/p][/quote]Hi DJ Brilliant talent. Equal to anything seen in an Olympic sport. This performer treats dancing as an athletic discipline and the last thing I find myself thinking of is sex. I'm just amazed at her skill and strength. . No so with the lap dancing in general. It's about erotic stimulation with men seeing women as sex objects rather athletic heroes. Revkev

10:40pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Revkev says...

DJ_Jaybee wrote:
Very judgemental.

For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent...

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM

v8&feature=share
DJ,
Being "judgemental" is not necessarily a bad thing.
We humans are called to make judgements about many things in life; what is safe, what is beautiful, what is ugly, what is right and wrong.
Aslam Hussain is just exercising his right to judge a situation.
I think in this case, his views make good sense.
A woman turning herself into a sex object is selling herself short in a big way.
[quote][p][bold]DJ_Jaybee[/bold] wrote: Very judgemental. For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM v8&feature=share[/p][/quote]DJ, Being "judgemental" is not necessarily a bad thing. We humans are called to make judgements about many things in life; what is safe, what is beautiful, what is ugly, what is right and wrong. Aslam Hussain is just exercising his right to judge a situation. I think in this case, his views make good sense. A woman turning herself into a sex object is selling herself short in a big way. Revkev

10:40pm Mon 5 Dec 11

its not rocket science says...

Amsterdam is not preachy, fine and dandy. Over a 3rd of coffee-shops are being closed by the authorities due to organised crime taking over and using the 'tolerant' and 'soft' policies to cover up crime.

Amsterdam is discussing tightening the regulations on drugs and prostitution.

Nov 2011. Headlines in - DutchAmsterdam.nl — The city of Amsterdam has promised to review its promotional material in order to cull overly rosy commendations of its Red Light District.

The Councillors are concerned with Human Trafficking, Slavery and Prostitution in The Netherlands. A Dutch-language book titled, “Slaven in de Polder” (Slaves in the Polder), written by Trouw newspaper journalists Martijn Roessingh and Perdiep Ramesar, exposes the raw, degrading facts about human trafficking and prostitution in the Netherlands.

Studies by the Justice Department and Police also show that 50 to 80 percent of women in the sex industry are subjected to financial, emotional or physical coercion.

Amsterdam Alderman Lodewijk Asscher, politically responsible for the Red Light District says many city managers and opinion makers deny the abuses and instead insist that everything is OK.

According to Asscher many people don’t speak out on the issue for fear of being viewed as ‘moralists’ or ‘prudes.’ However, he says that those terms don’t come into play when you’re dealing with human trafficking.

The Netherlands Senate will be debating a new prostitution bill. Proposals include making the minimum age for registered prostitutes 21 instead of 18. Having sex with a prostitute living in the Netherlands illegally would become a criminal offence.

The population of the whole of the Netherlands is about 16.8 million. The Capital, Amsterdam Metropolitan area has a populationof 2.1 million. The population of Lancashire is about 1.5 million.

Amsterdam is wanting to become less tolerant of sex and drugs for the safety and wellbeing of the city, citizens and women.

Using lap dance/sex clubs condones, supports, promotes the pimping, trafficking, enslaving, intimidating and menacing of young immature women.
Amsterdam is not preachy, fine and dandy. Over a 3rd of coffee-shops are being closed by the authorities due to organised crime taking over and using the 'tolerant' and 'soft' policies to cover up crime. Amsterdam is discussing tightening the regulations on drugs and prostitution. Nov 2011. Headlines in - DutchAmsterdam.nl — The city of Amsterdam has promised to review its promotional material in order to cull overly rosy commendations of its Red Light District. The Councillors are concerned with Human Trafficking, Slavery and Prostitution in The Netherlands. A Dutch-language book titled, “Slaven in de Polder” (Slaves in the Polder), written by Trouw newspaper journalists Martijn Roessingh and Perdiep Ramesar, exposes the raw, degrading facts about human trafficking and prostitution in the Netherlands. Studies by the Justice Department and Police also show that 50 to 80 percent of women in the sex industry are subjected to financial, emotional or physical coercion. Amsterdam Alderman Lodewijk Asscher, politically responsible for the Red Light District says many city managers and opinion makers deny the abuses and instead insist that everything is OK. According to Asscher many people don’t speak out on the issue for fear of being viewed as ‘moralists’ or ‘prudes.’ However, he says that those terms don’t come into play when you’re dealing with human trafficking. The Netherlands Senate will be debating a new prostitution bill. Proposals include making the minimum age for registered prostitutes 21 instead of 18. Having sex with a prostitute living in the Netherlands illegally would become a criminal offence. The population of the whole of the Netherlands is about 16.8 million. The Capital, Amsterdam Metropolitan area has a populationof 2.1 million. The population of Lancashire is about 1.5 million. Amsterdam is wanting to become less tolerant of sex and drugs for the safety and wellbeing of the city, citizens and women. Using lap dance/sex clubs condones, supports, promotes the pimping, trafficking, enslaving, intimidating and menacing of young immature women. its not rocket science

2:02am Tue 6 Dec 11

DJ_Jaybee says...

By saying the dancers will have been "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy" is judgemental - and is the same attitude that Jenyne Butterfly has had to contend with from many closed-minded people even though Rev, you say you accept she actually is a disciplined and talented performer.

By also performing for larger audiences in competitions more people are beginning to realise the top performers are a very high standard and demonstrate what levels can be achieved by hard work.

Many professional lap dancers and pole dancers are extremely disciplined and talented at their art form - and to insinuate that only girls that are drugged up or drunk do this work is both insulting and naive.

Some clubs, with any form of music and dancing, are run more professionally than others... and what level this one aims for remains to be seen - but to tar all clubs and performers with the same brush is wrong and is like saying we shouldn't have any music venues, because some people think musicians and audiences just want to get wasted.
By saying the dancers will have been "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy" is judgemental - and is the same attitude that Jenyne Butterfly has had to contend with from many closed-minded people even though Rev, you say you accept she actually is a disciplined and talented performer. By also performing for larger audiences in competitions more people are beginning to realise the top performers are a very high standard and demonstrate what levels can be achieved by hard work. Many professional lap dancers and pole dancers are extremely disciplined and talented at their art form - and to insinuate that only girls that are drugged up or drunk do this work is both insulting and naive. Some clubs, with any form of music and dancing, are run more professionally than others... and what level this one aims for remains to be seen - but to tar all clubs and performers with the same brush is wrong and is like saying we shouldn't have any music venues, because some people think musicians and audiences just want to get wasted. DJ_Jaybee

7:42am Tue 6 Dec 11

FredaLivery says...

Rev, just because you don't like something, don't prevent others from enjoying it (if it is legal).
.
I thought Christianity was about peace and love and tolerance and acceptance? Not about narrow-minded, prudish and judgemental attitudes?
.
If the public as a whole don't want it, they would have raised objections to the planning permissions and other licensing policies that they'll have had to go through, surely?
Rev, just because you don't like something, don't prevent others from enjoying it (if it is legal). . I thought Christianity was about peace and love and tolerance and acceptance? Not about narrow-minded, prudish and judgemental attitudes? . If the public as a whole don't want it, they would have raised objections to the planning permissions and other licensing policies that they'll have had to go through, surely? FredaLivery

8:35am Tue 6 Dec 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

its not rocket science wrote:
Amsterdam is not preachy, fine and dandy. Over a 3rd of coffee-shops are being closed by the authorities due to organised crime taking over and using the 'tolerant' and 'soft' policies to cover up crime. Amsterdam is discussing tightening the regulations on drugs and prostitution. Nov 2011. Headlines in - DutchAmsterdam.nl — The city of Amsterdam has promised to review its promotional material in order to cull overly rosy commendations of its Red Light District. The Councillors are concerned with Human Trafficking, Slavery and Prostitution in The Netherlands. A Dutch-language book titled, “Slaven in de Polder” (Slaves in the Polder), written by Trouw newspaper journalists Martijn Roessingh and Perdiep Ramesar, exposes the raw, degrading facts about human trafficking and prostitution in the Netherlands. Studies by the Justice Department and Police also show that 50 to 80 percent of women in the sex industry are subjected to financial, emotional or physical coercion. Amsterdam Alderman Lodewijk Asscher, politically responsible for the Red Light District says many city managers and opinion makers deny the abuses and instead insist that everything is OK. According to Asscher many people don’t speak out on the issue for fear of being viewed as ‘moralists’ or ‘prudes.’ However, he says that those terms don’t come into play when you’re dealing with human trafficking. The Netherlands Senate will be debating a new prostitution bill. Proposals include making the minimum age for registered prostitutes 21 instead of 18. Having sex with a prostitute living in the Netherlands illegally would become a criminal offence. The population of the whole of the Netherlands is about 16.8 million. The Capital, Amsterdam Metropolitan area has a populationof 2.1 million. The population of Lancashire is about 1.5 million. Amsterdam is wanting to become less tolerant of sex and drugs for the safety and wellbeing of the city, citizens and women. Using lap dance/sex clubs condones, supports, promotes the pimping, trafficking, enslaving, intimidating and menacing of young immature women.
Points well made, and thanks for a critical review of my more than a little devils advocate position.
[quote][p][bold]its not rocket science[/bold] wrote: Amsterdam is not preachy, fine and dandy. Over a 3rd of coffee-shops are being closed by the authorities due to organised crime taking over and using the 'tolerant' and 'soft' policies to cover up crime. Amsterdam is discussing tightening the regulations on drugs and prostitution. Nov 2011. Headlines in - DutchAmsterdam.nl — The city of Amsterdam has promised to review its promotional material in order to cull overly rosy commendations of its Red Light District. The Councillors are concerned with Human Trafficking, Slavery and Prostitution in The Netherlands. A Dutch-language book titled, “Slaven in de Polder” (Slaves in the Polder), written by Trouw newspaper journalists Martijn Roessingh and Perdiep Ramesar, exposes the raw, degrading facts about human trafficking and prostitution in the Netherlands. Studies by the Justice Department and Police also show that 50 to 80 percent of women in the sex industry are subjected to financial, emotional or physical coercion. Amsterdam Alderman Lodewijk Asscher, politically responsible for the Red Light District says many city managers and opinion makers deny the abuses and instead insist that everything is OK. According to Asscher many people don’t speak out on the issue for fear of being viewed as ‘moralists’ or ‘prudes.’ However, he says that those terms don’t come into play when you’re dealing with human trafficking. The Netherlands Senate will be debating a new prostitution bill. Proposals include making the minimum age for registered prostitutes 21 instead of 18. Having sex with a prostitute living in the Netherlands illegally would become a criminal offence. The population of the whole of the Netherlands is about 16.8 million. The Capital, Amsterdam Metropolitan area has a populationof 2.1 million. The population of Lancashire is about 1.5 million. Amsterdam is wanting to become less tolerant of sex and drugs for the safety and wellbeing of the city, citizens and women. Using lap dance/sex clubs condones, supports, promotes the pimping, trafficking, enslaving, intimidating and menacing of young immature women.[/p][/quote]Points well made, and thanks for a critical review of my more than a little devils advocate position. Joseph Yossarian

8:46am Tue 6 Dec 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

Revkev wrote:
DJ_Jaybee wrote: Very judgemental. For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM v8&feature=share
DJ, Being "judgemental" is not necessarily a bad thing. We humans are called to make judgements about many things in life; what is safe, what is beautiful, what is ugly, what is right and wrong. Aslam Hussain is just exercising his right to judge a situation. I think in this case, his views make good sense. A woman turning herself into a sex object is selling herself short in a big way.
We are all judgemental about people. Pyschologically we judge people within about 7 seconds of them speaking.

That does not mean it is good.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DJ_Jaybee[/bold] wrote: Very judgemental. For those that are a little more open minded here is a dancer with serious talent... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=waIuhfoTM v8&feature=share[/p][/quote]DJ, Being "judgemental" is not necessarily a bad thing. We humans are called to make judgements about many things in life; what is safe, what is beautiful, what is ugly, what is right and wrong. Aslam Hussain is just exercising his right to judge a situation. I think in this case, his views make good sense. A woman turning herself into a sex object is selling herself short in a big way.[/p][/quote]We are all judgemental about people. Pyschologically we judge people within about 7 seconds of them speaking. That does not mean it is good. Joseph Yossarian

8:49am Tue 6 Dec 11

Carlost says...

Hi Revkev

I have no problem with consenting adults entertaining themselves in whatever fashion they wish, it is thankfully a free country. Millions play and watch football every week, if I had to choose then I would certainly find a lapdancing club preferable to watching men running about in shorts. I think the issue here is the location and I agree with Revkev that it should not be situated in child and family freindly areas. I can only comment on the information provided by Revkev but the choice of location does seem to be wrong. Unlike Revkev I see no devils involved, just incompetent council officials. We still live in a democracy and if the community feeling is strong enough then community pressure can change things. I wonder though if the people are as concerned as Revkev would like.
Hi Revkev I have no problem with consenting adults entertaining themselves in whatever fashion they wish, it is thankfully a free country. Millions play and watch football every week, if I had to choose then I would certainly find a lapdancing club preferable to watching men running about in shorts. I think the issue here is the location and I agree with Revkev that it should not be situated in child and family freindly areas. I can only comment on the information provided by Revkev but the choice of location does seem to be wrong. Unlike Revkev I see no devils involved, just incompetent council officials. We still live in a democracy and if the community feeling is strong enough then community pressure can change things. I wonder though if the people are as concerned as Revkev would like. Carlost

9:45am Tue 6 Dec 11

Aslam Hussain says...

My comments were made Tongue-in-cheek to the comments made by 'Accy-lass' who suggests this club will be taking taking the 'snorting' thugs off the streets.
I'm sure the girls Parading in this club will be doing something to relax their nerves before parading themselves in front of the'Clients' who I am sure are not there to marvel at their skills on the pole.
The name of the Club is a bit of a give-a-way in itself.
Consenting adults can do whatever they like but lets consider the general public ,I am sure most of Us don't want it under our noses.
There are plenty of places on the outskirts where this club could have opened and been less of an 'eyesore'.
My comments were made Tongue-in-cheek to the comments made by 'Accy-lass' who suggests this club will be taking taking the 'snorting' thugs off the streets. I'm sure the girls Parading in this club will be doing something to relax their nerves before parading themselves in front of the'Clients' who I am sure are not there to marvel at their skills on the pole. The name of the Club is a bit of a give-a-way in itself. Consenting adults can do whatever they like but lets consider the general public ,I am sure most of Us don't want it under our noses. There are plenty of places on the outskirts where this club could have opened and been less of an 'eyesore'. Aslam Hussain

10:14am Tue 6 Dec 11

karolgadge says...

Even if we were to leave the ethical considerations at one side (which we can't for long) have the council considered this: a lap-dancing club, far from promoting the economic well-being of Accrington, could be one more agent of destruction?

How many of those who campaigned against this club must be saying to themselves: That's the last time I go shopping in Accrington town centre!
Even if we were to leave the ethical considerations at one side (which we can't for long) have the council considered this: a lap-dancing club, far from promoting the economic well-being of Accrington, could be one more agent of destruction? How many of those who campaigned against this club must be saying to themselves: That's the last time I go shopping in Accrington town centre! karolgadge

10:54am Tue 6 Dec 11

brownbread says...

Some CONSENTING ADULTS entertain themselves with children and say I thought s/he was 17.

The WORK ETHIC argument doesn't wash. If lap-pole-dancing is such an attractive career option why aren't MEN stampeding into the pole dancing classes and hammering down the club doors demanding a satifying career in lap dancing.

More men earning a decent crust and getting into the respected work ethic. "What do you do for a living Daddy", and he brimming with fulfilment replies, "lap-dancing son...it's the best career there is...you'll be able to pursue this career and follow in your father's footsteps with great pride and eagerness."

Slaves and serfs work too, is this to be respected and ignored?

Some heterosexual men can be quite hypo-critical. They want a saint for a wife, a sinner for a mistress and a strumpet for entertainment. and anyone who blows the whistle on them is a prig or prude.

Normalising women as easy sex objects for the pleasure of men is a backward step for a civilized society.

Males, Men, Boys, Boys, Boys - thinking of a career in lap-dancing - Apply within.
Some CONSENTING ADULTS entertain themselves with children and say I thought s/he was 17. The WORK ETHIC argument doesn't wash. If lap-pole-dancing is such an attractive career option why aren't MEN stampeding into the pole dancing classes and hammering down the club doors demanding a satifying career in lap dancing. More men earning a decent crust and getting into the respected work ethic. "What do you do for a living Daddy", and he brimming with fulfilment replies, "lap-dancing son...it's the best career there is...you'll be able to pursue this career and follow in your father's footsteps with great pride and eagerness." Slaves and serfs work too, is this to be respected and ignored? Some heterosexual men can be quite hypo-critical. They want a saint for a wife, a sinner for a mistress and a strumpet for entertainment. and anyone who blows the whistle on them is a prig or prude. Normalising women as easy sex objects for the pleasure of men is a backward step for a civilized society. Males, Men, Boys, Boys, Boys - thinking of a career in lap-dancing - Apply within. brownbread

11:02am Tue 6 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Kevin, you seem to be crusading against the whole human species with your condemnation of those who sell themselves short. I don't know anyone under the sun who has not sold themselves short at some time in their life ?


.


We ALL have a habit of selling our selves short of our true worth and potential, and on a daily basis, Priests, Christians and other non atheists brands are no exception.
Kevin, you seem to be crusading against the whole human species with your condemnation of those who sell themselves short. I don't know anyone under the sun who has not sold themselves short at some time in their life ? . We ALL have a habit of selling our selves short of our true worth and potential, and on a daily basis, Priests, Christians and other non atheists brands are no exception. Ken Shuffles

11:10am Tue 6 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Aslam Hussain wrote:
My comments were made Tongue-in-cheek to the comments made by 'Accy-lass' who suggests this club will be taking taking the 'snorting' thugs off the streets. I'm sure the girls Parading in this club will be doing something to relax their nerves before parading themselves in front of the'Clients' who I am sure are not there to marvel at their skills on the pole. The name of the Club is a bit of a give-a-way in itself. Consenting adults can do whatever they like but lets consider the general public ,I am sure most of Us don't want it under our noses. There are plenty of places on the outskirts where this club could have opened and been less of an 'eyesore'.
It's not an eyesore, it's a building. You don't have to go in the building, you don't have to solicit their services or pay 29.99 for a hot dog!


.

There is more sexual weirdness going on in religious minds and clubs than anything the icandyteam could ever dare to put on show.
[quote][p][bold]Aslam Hussain[/bold] wrote: My comments were made Tongue-in-cheek to the comments made by 'Accy-lass' who suggests this club will be taking taking the 'snorting' thugs off the streets. I'm sure the girls Parading in this club will be doing something to relax their nerves before parading themselves in front of the'Clients' who I am sure are not there to marvel at their skills on the pole. The name of the Club is a bit of a give-a-way in itself. Consenting adults can do whatever they like but lets consider the general public ,I am sure most of Us don't want it under our noses. There are plenty of places on the outskirts where this club could have opened and been less of an 'eyesore'.[/p][/quote]It's not an eyesore, it's a building. You don't have to go in the building, you don't have to solicit their services or pay 29.99 for a hot dog! . There is more sexual weirdness going on in religious minds and clubs than anything the icandyteam could ever dare to put on show. Ken Shuffles

11:12am Tue 6 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

At least it's an Honest form of entertainment. What you see is what you get.
At least it's an Honest form of entertainment. What you see is what you get. Ken Shuffles

11:17am Tue 6 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

And I would rather pimp for a team of lap dancers than pimp for some god.
And I would rather pimp for a team of lap dancers than pimp for some god. Ken Shuffles

1:40pm Tue 6 Dec 11

accylass85 says...

please tell me those who are against this lap dancing club opening.... what are YOUR valid reasons for not wanting it because quoting other people and clippings from news statements are not your own opinion, as for these girls taking drugs to calm their nerves how rude to even make assumptions, The girls in these clubs may have families to support, bills to pay, prescriptions to cover and you all sit there like gods gift judging them making them out to be dirty, these girls are doing the right thing by actually working for their money the do not sleep with the clients the preform for the clients as do clowns at a circus that most of you would take your children to or have visited once or twice in your own childhood it is the same instance, what one person finds entertaining another finds offensive well for those who are offended by it SIMPLY DONT GO!!! and leave the people who want to go to enjoy it, no one cant do right fordoing wrong in accrington any mor with all the busy bodies hanging around judging constantly, open your eyes and realise these are modern times and modern clubs are opening it is after all nearly 2012!
please tell me those who are against this lap dancing club opening.... what are YOUR valid reasons for not wanting it because quoting other people and clippings from news statements are not your own opinion, as for these girls taking drugs to calm their nerves how rude to even make assumptions, The girls in these clubs may have families to support, bills to pay, prescriptions to cover and you all sit there like gods gift judging them making them out to be dirty, these girls are doing the right thing by actually working for their money the do not sleep with the clients the preform for the clients as do clowns at a circus that most of you would take your children to or have visited once or twice in your own childhood it is the same instance, what one person finds entertaining another finds offensive well for those who are offended by it SIMPLY DONT GO!!! and leave the people who want to go to enjoy it, no one cant do right fordoing wrong in accrington any mor with all the busy bodies hanging around judging constantly, open your eyes and realise these are modern times and modern clubs are opening it is after all nearly 2012! accylass85

1:56pm Tue 6 Dec 11

accylass85 says...

@ brown bread....... I never once said it was a brilliant job i stated at least they are working rather than sponging....because that will be your next argument about someone else that they are not earning a living.... the people and i am sorry to speak out of turn but like yourself are snobs! to prudes snobs! you want people to work, they work you complain you want it your way or no way, the lap dancers do not parade around the streets dressed in their attire oe they would be done for indecency... as many of the girls in accrington dress in less on a night out than what these girls wear on stage! you dont seem to complain about this though??!! give these people a break and let them get on wiht their working day let them earn a crust whther you agree or not and as for it being called an eye sore by other members it is a building and thee lapdancing is inside the building and correct me if i am wrong but there are many things of which i am sure you may do that are not acceptable and are eye sores! in accrington which should have soething done about them and still stand looking disgraceful the whole town is downhil, whether a lap dancing club is here or not!!! and lap dancing will not change the economy of accrington people chose how to spend their money it is called freedom of choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
@ brown bread....... I never once said it was a brilliant job i stated at least they are working rather than sponging....because that will be your next argument about someone else that they are not earning a living.... the people and i am sorry to speak out of turn but like yourself are snobs! to prudes snobs! you want people to work, they work you complain you want it your way or no way, the lap dancers do not parade around the streets dressed in their attire oe they would be done for indecency... as many of the girls in accrington dress in less on a night out than what these girls wear on stage! you dont seem to complain about this though??!! give these people a break and let them get on wiht their working day let them earn a crust whther you agree or not and as for it being called an eye sore by other members it is a building and thee lapdancing is inside the building and correct me if i am wrong but there are many things of which i am sure you may do that are not acceptable and are eye sores! in accrington which should have soething done about them and still stand looking disgraceful the whole town is downhil, whether a lap dancing club is here or not!!! and lap dancing will not change the economy of accrington people chose how to spend their money it is called freedom of choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! accylass85

2:12pm Tue 6 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

What Man doesn't like having his brain switched off ? In a free world, Men can pay to have their brains switched on or switched off if they want to.
What Man doesn't like having his brain switched off ? In a free world, Men can pay to have their brains switched on or switched off if they want to. Ken Shuffles

3:11pm Tue 6 Dec 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

accylass85 wrote:
please tell me those who are against this lap dancing club opening.... what are YOUR valid reasons for not wanting it because quoting other people and clippings from news statements are not your own opinion, as for these girls taking drugs to calm their nerves how rude to even make assumptions, The girls in these clubs may have families to support, bills to pay, prescriptions to cover and you all sit there like gods gift judging them making them out to be dirty, these girls are doing the right thing by actually working for their money the do not sleep with the clients the preform for the clients as do clowns at a circus that most of you would take your children to or have visited once or twice in your own childhood it is the same instance, what one person finds entertaining another finds offensive well for those who are offended by it SIMPLY DONT GO!!! and leave the people who want to go to enjoy it, no one cant do right fordoing wrong in accrington any mor with all the busy bodies hanging around judging constantly, open your eyes and realise these are modern times and modern clubs are opening it is after all nearly 2012!
Well said you.

As one who lives very close to a similar establishment, I can say with all honesty that to my knowledge there has never been anything negative to the are that the scaremongers would have you believe.

It's 50 meters from the scouts, 75 meters from the nursery.
[quote][p][bold]accylass85[/bold] wrote: please tell me those who are against this lap dancing club opening.... what are YOUR valid reasons for not wanting it because quoting other people and clippings from news statements are not your own opinion, as for these girls taking drugs to calm their nerves how rude to even make assumptions, The girls in these clubs may have families to support, bills to pay, prescriptions to cover and you all sit there like gods gift judging them making them out to be dirty, these girls are doing the right thing by actually working for their money the do not sleep with the clients the preform for the clients as do clowns at a circus that most of you would take your children to or have visited once or twice in your own childhood it is the same instance, what one person finds entertaining another finds offensive well for those who are offended by it SIMPLY DONT GO!!! and leave the people who want to go to enjoy it, no one cant do right fordoing wrong in accrington any mor with all the busy bodies hanging around judging constantly, open your eyes and realise these are modern times and modern clubs are opening it is after all nearly 2012![/p][/quote]Well said you. As one who lives very close to a similar establishment, I can say with all honesty that to my knowledge there has never been anything negative to the are that the scaremongers would have you believe. It's 50 meters from the scouts, 75 meters from the nursery. Joseph Yossarian

4:57pm Tue 6 Dec 11

accylass85 says...

thanks joseph, x
thanks joseph, x accylass85

10:51pm Tue 6 Dec 11

abbo01 says...

for godsake its a lapdancing club. i should think that clergyman should be concentrating on topics a bit closer to home like people of the cloth sexually abusing young boys all over the world. why don't you comment on that? it's like anything in life if you don't like it then don't go, it's called having a choice. get a grip
for godsake its a lapdancing club. i should think that clergyman should be concentrating on topics a bit closer to home like people of the cloth sexually abusing young boys all over the world. why don't you comment on that? it's like anything in life if you don't like it then don't go, it's called having a choice. get a grip abbo01

9:17am Wed 7 Dec 11

Aslam Hussain says...

As I stated earlier My comments were Tongue in Cheek against Your comments ,'Accylass',If My comments are 'rude' ,then what about Your comments to suggest 18 year olds were Cocaine snorters etc.
I am not against this Club and each to their own . I think the location is wrong and the 'eyesore' comment made was not against the Building (Doh) but at club and its Title.
As far as opinons in general then of course all these are made after reading other peoples comments and thus it becomes banter and Debate form.
No one should get too serious and definatley Not Insultive.
End of the day the comments are only a personal opinion and no one is right or wrong.
As I stated earlier My comments were Tongue in Cheek against Your comments ,'Accylass',If My comments are 'rude' ,then what about Your comments to suggest 18 year olds were Cocaine snorters etc. I am not against this Club and each to their own . I think the location is wrong and the 'eyesore' comment made was not against the Building (Doh) but at club and its Title. As far as opinons in general then of course all these are made after reading other peoples comments and thus it becomes banter and Debate form. No one should get too serious and definatley Not Insultive. End of the day the comments are only a personal opinion and no one is right or wrong. Aslam Hussain

11:04am Wed 7 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Icandy is not damaging to Children Kevin, and it only insults your veiw of Womanhood if you take it upon your self to have your male view of what womanhood should be or shouldn't be doing.


.


Perhaps you are right and the women are damaged and perhaps you are right again and the men are also damaged. If this is the case, then is it not inevitable and appropriate that the damaged men and the damaged women should have some place where they are free to spend time together ?
Icandy is not damaging to Children Kevin, and it only insults your veiw of Womanhood if you take it upon your self to have your male view of what womanhood should be or shouldn't be doing. . Perhaps you are right and the women are damaged and perhaps you are right again and the men are also damaged. If this is the case, then is it not inevitable and appropriate that the damaged men and the damaged women should have some place where they are free to spend time together ? Ken Shuffles

11:07am Wed 7 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

I don't see why you have a right to have your personal views on Womanhood upheld.?
I don't see why you have a right to have your personal views on Womanhood upheld.? Ken Shuffles

8:02pm Wed 7 Dec 11

brownbread says...

To get a wider view of the issue of paying someone to strip naked for you needs to be addressed. That means learning about the dancers, the clients, the business model and the society around them.

I would encourage people to read
The Guardian - The truth about life as a lap-dancer - Homa Khaleeli guardian.co.uk, Thursday 10 November 2011

We need to read the stories of former lap-dancers such as Jennifer Hayashi Danns. We need to look into the psychology of stripping, and the sociological affects upon society researched by people like Dr Kate Hardy from the University of Leeds who says their prevalence, and high-street presence, is possible only because the dancers "pay" to work there through "house fees" and commissions on each dance; effectively taking on the financial risks. Even if demand drops therefore, the clubs are still viable.

This isn't fair play.

You have to remove your average, regular automatic thinking from the confines of a patriarchal and sexist society and listen to stories from the strippers, prostitutes, lap-dancers and any who are victims of trafficking and human slavery.

If stripping is so easy and so attractive then I'd like the club to offer men the chance to do it and expect pro-lap-dance clubbers to be the first to go for it.

Good Luck Accy chippendales!
To get a wider view of the issue of paying someone to strip naked for you needs to be addressed. That means learning about the dancers, the clients, the business model and the society around them. I would encourage people to read The Guardian - The truth about life as a lap-dancer - Homa Khaleeli guardian.co.uk, Thursday 10 November 2011 We need to read the stories of former lap-dancers such as Jennifer Hayashi Danns. We need to look into the psychology of stripping, and the sociological affects upon society researched by people like Dr Kate Hardy from the University of Leeds who says their [lap dancing clubs] prevalence, and high-street presence, is possible only because the dancers "pay" to work there through "house fees" and commissions on each dance; effectively taking on the financial risks. Even if demand drops therefore, the clubs are still viable. This isn't fair play. You have to remove your average, regular automatic thinking from the confines of a patriarchal and sexist society and listen to stories from the strippers, prostitutes, lap-dancers and any who are victims of trafficking and human slavery. If stripping is so easy and so attractive then I'd like the club to offer men the chance to do it and expect pro-lap-dance clubbers to be the first to go for it. Good Luck Accy chippendales! brownbread

9:16pm Wed 7 Dec 11

Revkev says...

DJ_Jaybee wrote:
By saying the dancers will have been "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy" is judgemental - and is the same attitude that Jenyne Butterfly has had to contend with from many closed-minded people even though Rev, you say you accept she actually is a disciplined and talented performer.

By also performing for larger audiences in competitions more people are beginning to realise the top performers are a very high standard and demonstrate what levels can be achieved by hard work.

Many professional lap dancers and pole dancers are extremely disciplined and talented at their art form - and to insinuate that only girls that are drugged up or drunk do this work is both insulting and naive.

Some clubs, with any form of music and dancing, are run more professionally than others... and what level this one aims for remains to be seen - but to tar all clubs and performers with the same brush is wrong and is like saying we shouldn't have any music venues, because some people think musicians and audiences just want to get wasted.
Hi DJ,
The quoted words are not mine.
You will see, if you re-read the relevant section, that I'm quoting Accylass, suggesting that maybe lap dancing is not the best solution to what she sees in lap dancing venues.
I have no evidence that lap dancers or clients are any more prone to cocaine etc as any other pub group.
[quote][p][bold]DJ_Jaybee[/bold] wrote: By saying the dancers will have been "sniffing cocaine and popping ecstasy" is judgemental - and is the same attitude that Jenyne Butterfly has had to contend with from many closed-minded people even though Rev, you say you accept she actually is a disciplined and talented performer. By also performing for larger audiences in competitions more people are beginning to realise the top performers are a very high standard and demonstrate what levels can be achieved by hard work. Many professional lap dancers and pole dancers are extremely disciplined and talented at their art form - and to insinuate that only girls that are drugged up or drunk do this work is both insulting and naive. Some clubs, with any form of music and dancing, are run more professionally than others... and what level this one aims for remains to be seen - but to tar all clubs and performers with the same brush is wrong and is like saying we shouldn't have any music venues, because some people think musicians and audiences just want to get wasted.[/p][/quote]Hi DJ, The quoted words are not mine. You will see, if you re-read the relevant section, that I'm quoting Accylass, suggesting that maybe lap dancing is not the best solution to what she sees in lap dancing venues. I have no evidence that lap dancers or clients are any more prone to cocaine etc as any other pub group. Revkev

9:22pm Wed 7 Dec 11

Revkev says...

FredaLivery wrote:
Rev, just because you don't like something, don't prevent others from enjoying it (if it is legal).
.
I thought Christianity was about peace and love and tolerance and acceptance? Not about narrow-minded, prudish and judgemental attitudes?
.
If the public as a whole don't want it, they would have raised objections to the planning permissions and other licensing policies that they'll have had to go through, surely?
Hi Freda
We're at the licensing stage now.
That's why 1,600 are protesting in a petition, dozens more have written personal protest letters and many more have contributed to a legal find to fight this lap-dancing club in Accrington.
[quote][p][bold]FredaLivery[/bold] wrote: Rev, just because you don't like something, don't prevent others from enjoying it (if it is legal). . I thought Christianity was about peace and love and tolerance and acceptance? Not about narrow-minded, prudish and judgemental attitudes? . If the public as a whole don't want it, they would have raised objections to the planning permissions and other licensing policies that they'll have had to go through, surely?[/p][/quote]Hi Freda We're at the licensing stage now. That's why 1,600 are protesting in a petition, dozens more have written personal protest letters and many more have contributed to a legal find to fight this lap-dancing club in Accrington. Revkev

9:26pm Wed 7 Dec 11

Revkev says...

karolgadge wrote:
Even if we were to leave the ethical considerations at one side (which we can't for long) have the council considered this: a lap-dancing club, far from promoting the economic well-being of Accrington, could be one more agent of destruction?

How many of those who campaigned against this club must be saying to themselves: That's the last time I go shopping in Accrington town centre!
Hi karolgadge,
I don't really have much to add. I just thought I'd copy it because it deserved a another chance to be read.
[quote][p][bold]karolgadge[/bold] wrote: Even if we were to leave the ethical considerations at one side (which we can't for long) have the council considered this: a lap-dancing club, far from promoting the economic well-being of Accrington, could be one more agent of destruction? How many of those who campaigned against this club must be saying to themselves: That's the last time I go shopping in Accrington town centre![/p][/quote]Hi karolgadge, I don't really have much to add. I just thought I'd copy it because it deserved a another chance to be read. Revkev

9:28pm Wed 7 Dec 11

Revkev says...

brownbread wrote:
Some CONSENTING ADULTS entertain themselves with children and say I thought s/he was 17.

The WORK ETHIC argument doesn't wash. If lap-pole-dancing is such an attractive career option why aren't MEN stampeding into the pole dancing classes and hammering down the club doors demanding a satifying career in lap dancing.

More men earning a decent crust and getting into the respected work ethic. "What do you do for a living Daddy", and he brimming with fulfilment replies, "lap-dancing son...it's the best career there is...you'll be able to pursue this career and follow in your father's footsteps with great pride and eagerness."

Slaves and serfs work too, is this to be respected and ignored?

Some heterosexual men can be quite hypo-critical. They want a saint for a wife, a sinner for a mistress and a strumpet for entertainment. and anyone who blows the whistle on them is a prig or prude.

Normalising women as easy sex objects for the pleasure of men is a backward step for a civilized society.

Males, Men, Boys, Boys, Boys - thinking of a career in lap-dancing - Apply within.
I do like this,
[quote][p][bold]brownbread[/bold] wrote: Some CONSENTING ADULTS entertain themselves with children and say I thought s/he was 17. The WORK ETHIC argument doesn't wash. If lap-pole-dancing is such an attractive career option why aren't MEN stampeding into the pole dancing classes and hammering down the club doors demanding a satifying career in lap dancing. More men earning a decent crust and getting into the respected work ethic. "What do you do for a living Daddy", and he brimming with fulfilment replies, "lap-dancing son...it's the best career there is...you'll be able to pursue this career and follow in your father's footsteps with great pride and eagerness." Slaves and serfs work too, is this to be respected and ignored? Some heterosexual men can be quite hypo-critical. They want a saint for a wife, a sinner for a mistress and a strumpet for entertainment. and anyone who blows the whistle on them is a prig or prude. Normalising women as easy sex objects for the pleasure of men is a backward step for a civilized society. Males, Men, Boys, Boys, Boys - thinking of a career in lap-dancing - Apply within.[/p][/quote]I do like this, Revkev

10:47am Thu 8 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it.
Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it. Ken Shuffles

10:51am Thu 8 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

If we are not waking up EVERYDAY to the Beautiful Contentment of Life, of This Moment we are ALL a bunch of damaged SELF HARMERS whatever gravy train we might think we are supposed to be on.
If we are not waking up EVERYDAY to the Beautiful Contentment of Life, of This Moment we are ALL a bunch of damaged SELF HARMERS whatever gravy train we might think we are supposed to be on. Ken Shuffles

11:07am Thu 8 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

The whole world is a very Grim Place until we are touched by the Beauty of This Moment.


.


Many People, have simply not realised just how Beautiful they can feel and be, and so they try to think and do and drug and dance their way out of it.
The whole world is a very Grim Place until we are touched by the Beauty of This Moment. . Many People, have simply not realised just how Beautiful they can feel and be, and so they try to think and do and drug and dance their way out of it. Ken Shuffles

8:23pm Fri 9 Dec 11

Revkev says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it.
Hello Ken,
I think you've misunderstood what Jesus's death is about.
His crucifixion was not supposed to change the world's behaviour.
God can't change human behaviour without withdrawing the free will that he gave us.
This will happen one day when the world ends and every knee will bow before Jesus.
.
The crucifixion was Jesus paying the penalty of death that your sin and mine deserve, Ken.
He died that we might be offered forgiveness and the chance of eternal life with him.
The great gift he gives us is abundant life with him stretching into eternity.
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it.[/p][/quote]Hello Ken, I think you've misunderstood what Jesus's death is about. His crucifixion was not supposed to change the world's behaviour. God can't change human behaviour without withdrawing the free will that he gave us. This will happen one day when the world ends and every knee will bow before Jesus. . The crucifixion was Jesus paying the penalty of death that your sin and mine deserve, Ken. He died that we might be offered forgiveness and the chance of eternal life with him. The great gift he gives us is abundant life with him stretching into eternity. Revkev

11:44am Sat 10 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

What death ? Jesus was a Child of The Moment. What death ?
What death ? Jesus was a Child of The Moment. What death ? Ken Shuffles

11:46am Sat 10 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

If a Child of The Moment can become a Carpenter ? If a Carpenter can be the Son of God why can't a plumber ?
If a Child of The Moment can become a Carpenter ? If a Carpenter can be the Son of God why can't a plumber ? Ken Shuffles

12:22pm Sat 10 Dec 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Revkev wrote:
Ken Shuffles wrote: Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it.
Hello Ken, I think you've misunderstood what Jesus's death is about. His crucifixion was not supposed to change the world's behaviour. God can't change human behaviour without withdrawing the free will that he gave us. This will happen one day when the world ends and every knee will bow before Jesus. . The crucifixion was Jesus paying the penalty of death that your sin and mine deserve, Ken. He died that we might be offered forgiveness and the chance of eternal life with him. The great gift he gives us is abundant life with him stretching into eternity.
Hi Kev,


.


If I have misunderstood what Jesus's death is all about then I think Kev, you have misunderstood what Jesus's life is all about and This Moment, This Eternal Moment, is what the life of Jesus and the life inside everyone else and every other living entity is all about. The Greatest of Gifts is to discover the Moment you have. There is no other Miracle, no Greater Miracle to discover, than This Moment you have. When you understand that Kev, you will understand the Beauty and The Perfection of The Eternal.


.


Man has been made mortal so that he may freely consider, while he is still alive, before death, freely choose for himself and freely discover for himself the Joy and the Beauty of This Moment which is the realm of all that which is Immortal.


.


The worlds will end, if there are ten zillion worlds they will all end, worlds of all persuasions begin and end, but the one supreme discovery that counts for man, that really really counts for anything in all of these worlds a man may enter into is the discover, recovery and uncovery of This very Moment which is itself undepleting and Eternal.


.


The error, in ANY WORLD is to assume that any particulate or the behaviour of any particle of this world or any other world is more significant or more important, or more Perfect, or more Kind or Fittng or Beautiful for a man to understand and discover than the Realisation of This Moment.


.


All Jesus could do was point out what was OBVIOUS, what made Jesus special was that no other person, nothing else, no other human on earth at that time could possibly do that. Jesus lived, came and left this world pointing out what was obvious, what is obvious today, and what will always be forever and ever, obvious for those who are looking to discover, the Beauty Kindness and Love of The Eternal.


Which is This Moment precisely.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: Lap dancers are not the only individuals who are victims to slavery. Everyday, non lap dancing people wake up enslaved by their responsibilities and often feel victims of their professional routines. There is plenty of self harming going on in this world and campaigning and crusading against one particular mode of self harming will not change Accrington town centre any more than the crucifiction of Jesus has changed it.[/p][/quote]Hello Ken, I think you've misunderstood what Jesus's death is about. His crucifixion was not supposed to change the world's behaviour. God can't change human behaviour without withdrawing the free will that he gave us. This will happen one day when the world ends and every knee will bow before Jesus. . The crucifixion was Jesus paying the penalty of death that your sin and mine deserve, Ken. He died that we might be offered forgiveness and the chance of eternal life with him. The great gift he gives us is abundant life with him stretching into eternity.[/p][/quote]Hi Kev, . If I have misunderstood what Jesus's death is all about then I think Kev, you have misunderstood what Jesus's life is all about and This Moment, This Eternal Moment, is what the life of Jesus and the life inside everyone else and every other living entity is all about. The Greatest of Gifts is to discover the Moment you have. There is no other Miracle, no Greater Miracle to discover, than This Moment you have. When you understand that Kev, you will understand the Beauty and The Perfection of The Eternal. . Man has been made mortal so that he may freely consider, while he is still alive, before death, freely choose for himself and freely discover for himself the Joy and the Beauty of This Moment which is the realm of all that which is Immortal. . The worlds will end, if there are ten zillion worlds they will all end, worlds of all persuasions begin and end, but the one supreme discovery that counts for man, that really really counts for anything in all of these worlds a man may enter into is the discover, recovery and uncovery of This very Moment which is itself undepleting and Eternal. . The error, in ANY WORLD is to assume that any particulate or the behaviour of any particle of this world or any other world is more significant or more important, or more Perfect, or more Kind or Fittng or Beautiful for a man to understand and discover than the Realisation of This Moment. . All Jesus could do was point out what was OBVIOUS, what made Jesus special was that no other person, nothing else, no other human on earth at that time could possibly do that. Jesus lived, came and left this world pointing out what was obvious, what is obvious today, and what will always be forever and ever, obvious for those who are looking to discover, the Beauty Kindness and Love of The Eternal. Which is This Moment precisely. Ken Shuffles

5:33pm Fri 16 Dec 11

brok says...

Shame on you Kevin cheating like that! The verse says ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς "Jesus Wept" not ἐδάκρυσεν" "he wept".
Shame on you Kevin cheating like that! The verse says ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς "Jesus Wept" not ἐδάκρυσεν" "he wept". brok

5:59pm Fri 16 Dec 11

brok says...

"But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way...the servant of the householder said unto him...from whence has it tares?He said unto them " An enemy hath done this... let both grow together until the harvest... I will say to the reapers "Gather ye together first the tares into bundles to burn and the wheat into my barn..."
I always thought that this parable had little to do with cereals but more to do with perceived evil in society and the God (of 'Justice in mine' fame) having the right to deal with the situation. Or do you feel, Kevin that the Omnipresent needs a little prod in the right direction from time to time?
"But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way...the servant of the householder said unto him...from whence has it tares?He said unto them " An enemy hath done this... let both grow together until the harvest... I will say to the reapers "Gather ye together first the tares into bundles to burn and the wheat into my barn..." I always thought that this parable had little to do with cereals but more to do with perceived evil in society and the God (of 'Justice in mine' fame) having the right to deal with the situation. Or do you feel, Kevin that the Omnipresent needs a little prod in the right direction from time to time? brok

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree