Responses to lap dancing plans

I’VE had a greater variety of responses to lap dancing this week than I’ve had hot dinners.

One Muslim shopkeeper took “as many petition forms as you’ve got”, adding “I’ll duplicate more if needed.” He was one of hundreds who stopped last Saturday to back the growing protest against Accrington’s first sex entertainment venue.

“Every one of my people will sign,” he called over his shoulder.

Owners of an Accrington hair salon said all their customers were up in arms because lap dancing turns women into “mere sex objects”.

Others were shocked that the lap dancing club was so near the parish church, a few yards from where children disembark daily from school buses, a corner away from the library and on a high street used by young families.

One said that there already existed a problem club, adding, “How many more hot spots do we want per square mile”. Another asked, “Who wants a mini red-light district?”

The oddest response came from a church. The vast majority, including bishops, were determined to protest, agreeing that evil flourishes when good men do nothing.

“I want us to be positive,” said the pastor who refused the petition, “I don’t want us to be known as the church that was negative; that closed down the lap dancing bar.”

He wanted to concentrate on the positive Good News that Jesus brings into people’s lives and the fact that he was a friend of sinners.

All true, but didn’t Jesus also whip out robbers from his Father’s house, and wasn’t he negative about those scribes and Pharisees, and didn’t he command his followers to be salt and light?

A full gospel requires we preach the good and stand against evil.

Comments (34)

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1:06pm Sun 13 Nov 11

brownbread says...

In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'.

Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me.

The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that?

The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005.

So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry.

An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women.

The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year.

Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex.

Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience?
Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers?
In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'. Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me. The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that? The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005. So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry. An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women. The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year. Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex. Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience? Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers? brownbread

3:38pm Sun 13 Nov 11

s_smith says...

The furore surrounding these types of proposal always surprises me. Its as though the "good" people dont want to accept that there is a) a market for these places and b) that women actually WANT to work in them.
.
The sexualisation of women can be seen on any night out - women going out dressed up to the nines to impress men of all ages. This is seen as perfectly legitimate and legal, yet a lap dancing club is not?
.
I have been to a number of "strip clubs" in my years - with both women and men on show (I have an eclectic circle of friends) and have even been to a few with my wife. While I did not partake of the up-close-and-persona
l shows, I have seen them and I have also taken the time to talk to the women who worked at these places - they are neither pressured and are keen to work and also provide value for money for the boys that do want the show. The only people being exploited are the men who hand over the money - that is for certain.
.
There are two such clubs in Preston, which are very nice venues, and I hear there are three in Blackpool around the town centre - not including the gay bars who also show fully naked male strippers on weekends. Again it is the customers being exploited at these venues, not the strippers, who earn very good money.
.
The fact is, there is and will always be a marketplace for sex. It has been there since the dawn of time and will still be there when humanity ends. We either have the choice to regulate it and keep it safe for staff and customers, or push it underground by prohibiting it, where standards are less high, and the dangers much worse.
.
Placing a lap dancing club near a school, Church, library or shopping centre makes no difference. The "protection of children" story is put on such a high moral pedestal as to be almost paranoid in its application! Protecting children from what exactly? I feel it is more like protecting adults from children asking awkward questions - although even then kids will more likely know what its all about anyway.
.
I say as long as the establishment is tightly inspected and does not cause a noise or other ASB nuisance to its neighbours, let it open and keep the market happy, otherwise the market forces will make its own provisions - legal or not.
The furore surrounding these types of proposal always surprises me. Its as though the "good" people dont want to accept that there is a) a market for these places and b) that women actually WANT to work in them. . The sexualisation of women can be seen on any night out - women going out dressed up to the nines to impress men of all ages. This is seen as perfectly legitimate and legal, yet a lap dancing club is not? . I have been to a number of "strip clubs" in my years - with both women and men on show (I have an eclectic circle of friends) and have even been to a few with my wife. While I did not partake of the up-close-and-persona l shows, I have seen them and I have also taken the time to talk to the women who worked at these places - they are neither pressured and are keen to work and also provide value for money for the boys that do want the show. The only people being exploited are the men who hand over the money - that is for certain. . There are two such clubs in Preston, which are very nice venues, and I hear there are three in Blackpool around the town centre - not including the gay bars who also show fully naked male strippers on weekends. Again it is the customers being exploited at these venues, not the strippers, who earn very good money. . The fact is, there is and will always be a marketplace for sex. It has been there since the dawn of time and will still be there when humanity ends. We either have the choice to regulate it and keep it safe for staff and customers, or push it underground by prohibiting it, where standards are less high, and the dangers much worse. . Placing a lap dancing club near a school, Church, library or shopping centre makes no difference. The "protection of children" story is put on such a high moral pedestal as to be almost paranoid in its application! Protecting children from what exactly? I feel it is more like protecting adults from children asking awkward questions - although even then kids will more likely know what its all about anyway. . I say as long as the establishment is tightly inspected and does not cause a noise or other ASB nuisance to its neighbours, let it open and keep the market happy, otherwise the market forces will make its own provisions - legal or not. s_smith

11:10pm Sun 13 Nov 11

Revkev says...

brownbread wrote:
In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'.

Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me.

The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that?

The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005.

So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry.

An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women.

The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year.

Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex.

Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience?
Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers?
Hello brownbread,
Thanks for your interesting contribu-tion and questions.
I'd be interested to know the title of the academic report that "has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women."
I'll also follow up with interest the work of Kent university.
Thanks once again.
[quote][p][bold]brownbread[/bold] wrote: In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'. Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me. The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that? The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005. So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry. An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women. The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year. Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex. Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience? Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers?[/p][/quote]Hello brownbread, Thanks for your interesting contribu-tion and questions. I'd be interested to know the title of the academic report that "has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women." I'll also follow up with interest the work of Kent university. Thanks once again. Revkev

10:07am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

If you don't agree with lap dancing don't go and watch them. If you don't agree with prostitution, don't solicit their services.


Violence against the weak, weary, and the vulnerable is supported by the church. Violence, misery and suffering is not supported and made noble by lap dancing clubs.
If you don't agree with lap dancing don't go and watch them. If you don't agree with prostitution, don't solicit their services. Violence against the weak, weary, and the vulnerable is supported by the church. Violence, misery and suffering is not supported and made noble by lap dancing clubs. Ken Shuffles

10:12am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

I can understand the church not wanting anyone else pimping off people.
I can understand the church not wanting anyone else pimping off people. Ken Shuffles

10:19am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Many Priests and Holy men keep their own sexual weirdness hidden from public scrutiny. They too will use and abuse the women and children in their care but are encouraged to keep it all private.


Maybe there would be less sexual abuse and exploitation if priests were encouraged to use these places.
Many Priests and Holy men keep their own sexual weirdness hidden from public scrutiny. They too will use and abuse the women and children in their care but are encouraged to keep it all private. Maybe there would be less sexual abuse and exploitation if priests were encouraged to use these places. Ken Shuffles

10:39am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Most weird men are abusive in private. Domestic terrorism is kept secret and often protected by the veneer of public respectability which religion affords.


.


What has christianity ever done to stop sexual terrorism ? Even JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD and The Lord of The Universe, couldn't stop **** kevin, and if he couldn't stop the weirdness from spreading, I don't know how you and a bunch of male muslims can halt it or cover it all up.


.


No doubt the publicity you will get will make you very happy.
Most weird men are abusive in private. Domestic terrorism is kept secret and often protected by the veneer of public respectability which religion affords. . What has christianity ever done to stop sexual terrorism ? Even JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD and The Lord of The Universe, couldn't stop **** kevin, and if he couldn't stop the weirdness from spreading, I don't know how you and a bunch of male muslims can halt it or cover it all up. . No doubt the publicity you will get will make you very happy. Ken Shuffles

10:40am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Pornograpy = P0RN0GRAPHY.
Pornograpy = P0RN0GRAPHY. Ken Shuffles

10:42am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

**** ?
**** ? Ken Shuffles

10:45am Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW.
YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW. Ken Shuffles

11:50am Mon 14 Nov 11

Aslam Hussain says...

I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area.
Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation.
If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.
I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep. Aslam Hussain

12:19pm Mon 14 Nov 11

midas says...

Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club?
.
How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?
Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice? midas

1:43pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Aslam Hussain wrote:
I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.
Aslam,

There are many houses near this church were sexual exploitation is occurring on a daily basis.


.


Lap dancing clubs and brothels are about the gravy. Everyone is in the sex industry for the gravy.


.


Sex isn't evil, it is about what man will not do with women for the gravy and what women will not do with men for the gravy, for the money, which lets face it, amounts to practically nothing. There is nothing some men will NOT do for the gravy. Just as it has always been.


.


Some people will believe and justify and defend anything for their share of the gravy.


Men and Women are being abused, used, battered, and their time exploited on a daily basis for gravy.


.


The issue is about the gravy and it is being driven by gravy just like what you do with your time is probably driven by gravy.
[quote][p][bold]Aslam Hussain[/bold] wrote: I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.[/p][/quote]Aslam, There are many houses near this church were sexual exploitation is occurring on a daily basis. . Lap dancing clubs and brothels are about the gravy. Everyone is in the sex industry for the gravy. . Sex isn't evil, it is about what man will not do with women for the gravy and what women will not do with men for the gravy, for the money, which lets face it, amounts to practically nothing. There is nothing some men will NOT do for the gravy. Just as it has always been. . Some people will believe and justify and defend anything for their share of the gravy. Men and Women are being abused, used, battered, and their time exploited on a daily basis for gravy. . The issue is about the gravy and it is being driven by gravy just like what you do with your time is probably driven by gravy. Ken Shuffles

1:55pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

midas wrote:
Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?
Religious people don't want any of us to be free. there is an issue about freedom for WOMEN and that just gets the teeth of the religious gnashing.


Most Children are taught how to feel bad about themselves from their parents not from strippers and lappers.


.


Have you ever seen a poor parson pass throught the eye of a needle with a bible ?


.


Only this Breath man has, can pass through the eye of a needle.
[quote][p][bold]midas[/bold] wrote: Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?[/p][/quote]Religious people don't want any of us to be free. there is an issue about freedom for WOMEN and that just gets the teeth of the religious gnashing. Most Children are taught how to feel bad about themselves from their parents not from strippers and lappers. . Have you ever seen a poor parson pass throught the eye of a needle with a bible ? . Only this Breath man has, can pass through the eye of a needle. Ken Shuffles

7:23pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
I can understand the church not wanting anyone else pimping off people.
A bit cynical, Kenneth?
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: I can understand the church not wanting anyone else pimping off people.[/p][/quote]A bit cynical, Kenneth? Revkev

7:33pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

Ken Shuffles wrote:
YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW.
Hello Ken
Of course, we can all put forward other causes.
And sometimes they are even more important.
The point of this protest is this:
It's happening now.
It's happening in our area.
It's something we can do now.
[quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW.[/p][/quote]Hello Ken Of course, we can all put forward other causes. And sometimes they are even more important. The point of this protest is this: It's happening now. It's happening in our area. It's something we can do now. Revkev

7:37pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

Aslam Hussain wrote:
I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area.
Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation.
If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.
Hi Aslam,
Great contribution.
This sexual entertainment venue is round the corner from the town's library, the Parish Church and two other churches.
It's a 100 yards from the spot where hundreds of school children are dropped off after school.
It's on a high street and in front of the town ha;; and market hall, often used by young families.
[quote][p][bold]Aslam Hussain[/bold] wrote: I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.[/p][/quote]Hi Aslam, Great contribution. This sexual entertainment venue is round the corner from the town's library, the Parish Church and two other churches. It's a 100 yards from the spot where hundreds of school children are dropped off after school. It's on a high street and in front of the town ha;; and market hall, often used by young families. Revkev

7:40pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

midas wrote:
Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club?
.
How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?
Hi midas,
Of course it's about freedom of choice.
But it's freedom of choice for all, not just those who want to set up sexual entertainment lap dancing clubs.
Surely, it is right in a democratic society to be able to say "NO", and for debate and arguments to be considered.
You wouldn't want objectors to be gagged would you, Midas?
[quote][p][bold]midas[/bold] wrote: Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?[/p][/quote]Hi midas, Of course it's about freedom of choice. But it's freedom of choice for all, not just those who want to set up sexual entertainment lap dancing clubs. Surely, it is right in a democratic society to be able to say "NO", and for debate and arguments to be considered. You wouldn't want objectors to be gagged would you, Midas? Revkev

7:59pm Mon 14 Nov 11

s_smith says...

But I do not understand the argument about school kids being dropped off after school? They kids are not going to be charging in there, there will be nothing to see from the outside except a bar, like any other bar - the "other things" will take place in another section of the building. Or is there a cynical suggestion that sexually charged men will come out and start accosting children? Get with it.
.
And why are we getting all excited about some young woman getting her milk glands out for money? If it is anything like anywhere else, there will be no touching, no "closeness" and it will cost an absolute fortune to actually have ones lap sat upon.
.
As I said before, the only exploitees are the customers and their wallets.
.
Perhaps, just perhaps, those who are against such establishments should do a bit of research in to the way these establishments are run, the girls who work there and why, maybe even pay a visit to one! ;-)
But I do not understand the argument about school kids being dropped off after school? They kids are not going to be charging in there, there will be nothing to see from the outside except a bar, like any other bar - the "other things" will take place in another section of the building. Or is there a cynical suggestion that sexually charged men will come out and start accosting children? Get with it. . And why are we getting all excited about some young woman getting her milk glands out for money? If it is anything like anywhere else, there will be no touching, no "closeness" and it will cost an absolute fortune to actually have ones lap sat upon. . As I said before, the only exploitees are the customers and their wallets. . Perhaps, just perhaps, those who are against such establishments should do a bit of research in to the way these establishments are run, the girls who work there and why, maybe even pay a visit to one! ;-) s_smith

11:26pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

s_smith wrote:
But I do not understand the argument about school kids being dropped off after school? They kids are not going to be charging in there, there will be nothing to see from the outside except a bar, like any other bar - the "other things" will take place in another section of the building. Or is there a cynical suggestion that sexually charged men will come out and start accosting children? Get with it.
.
And why are we getting all excited about some young woman getting her milk glands out for money? If it is anything like anywhere else, there will be no touching, no "closeness" and it will cost an absolute fortune to actually have ones lap sat upon.
.
As I said before, the only exploitees are the customers and their wallets.
.
Perhaps, just perhaps, those who are against such establishments should do a bit of research in to the way these establishments are run, the girls who work there and why, maybe even pay a visit to one! ;-)
Hi s_smith,
'The argument abd school kids', as you put it, is a government directive.
Licence are not to be granted in sensitive areas, i.e. where there are kids, libraries, churches, schools, and so on.
I suppose it's a common sense thing.
[quote][p][bold]s_smith[/bold] wrote: But I do not understand the argument about school kids being dropped off after school? They kids are not going to be charging in there, there will be nothing to see from the outside except a bar, like any other bar - the "other things" will take place in another section of the building. Or is there a cynical suggestion that sexually charged men will come out and start accosting children? Get with it. . And why are we getting all excited about some young woman getting her milk glands out for money? If it is anything like anywhere else, there will be no touching, no "closeness" and it will cost an absolute fortune to actually have ones lap sat upon. . As I said before, the only exploitees are the customers and their wallets. . Perhaps, just perhaps, those who are against such establishments should do a bit of research in to the way these establishments are run, the girls who work there and why, maybe even pay a visit to one! ;-)[/p][/quote]Hi s_smith, 'The argument abd school kids', as you put it, is a government directive. Licence are not to be granted in sensitive areas, i.e. where there are kids, libraries, churches, schools, and so on. I suppose it's a common sense thing. Revkev

11:33pm Mon 14 Nov 11

Revkev says...

One more thing, s_smith.
We spend millions on sex education because the UK is top of the Teen-mum League in Europe.
Meanwhile, we also spend millions sexualising our kids from an early age via magazine, television etc.
And the presence of a Sexual Entertainment Venue on the high street is one more way we contradict sex education.
We teach them one thing at school and then model the opposite in society.
One more thing, s_smith. We spend millions on sex education because the UK is top of the Teen-mum League in Europe. Meanwhile, we also spend millions sexualising our kids from an early age via magazine, television etc. And the presence of a Sexual Entertainment Venue on the high street is one more way we contradict sex education. We teach them one thing at school and then model the opposite in society. Revkev

1:37am Tue 15 Nov 11

s_smith says...

And therein lies the problem, Reverend. We teach kids the mechanics of sex; there is no teaching of the responsibilities that go with it because as a society we are almost fearful of sex and treat it almost as a taboo.
.
This is where the government AND religious organisations have failed. There is no going back from where the world is so do we bury our heads in the sand, or tackle the issue head on. Hiding one lap dancing club away from view is not going to stop teenage pregnancy, so that is a very poor example to use Reverend.
.
Where is the connection between lap dancing clubs and teen pregnancy? There is none. Where the connection lies is in our cultural inability to deal with sex.
.
Again, Reverend I do ask, and you have yet to actually give a reasonable reply - what will preventing a lap dancing club protect children from? This particular club is not on ground level, so wont be immediately visible, and it will only open late hours on weekends, when there should not be any children anywhere near it.
.
The guidance about SEV's not only refers to lap dancing clubs, but sex shops and sex cinemas as well and that is why there is guidance on the locality, amenity etc. None of that hardly applies in this particular case.
And therein lies the problem, Reverend. We teach kids the mechanics of sex; there is no teaching of the responsibilities that go with it because as a society we are almost fearful of sex and treat it almost as a taboo. . This is where the government AND religious organisations have failed. There is no going back from where the world is so do we bury our heads in the sand, or tackle the issue head on. Hiding one lap dancing club away from view is not going to stop teenage pregnancy, so that is a very poor example to use Reverend. . Where is the connection between lap dancing clubs and teen pregnancy? There is none. Where the connection lies is in our cultural inability to deal with sex. . Again, Reverend I do ask, and you have yet to actually give a reasonable reply - what will preventing a lap dancing club protect children from? This particular club is not on ground level, so wont be immediately visible, and it will only open late hours on weekends, when there should not be any children anywhere near it. . The guidance about SEV's not only refers to lap dancing clubs, but sex shops and sex cinemas as well and that is why there is guidance on the locality, amenity etc. None of that hardly applies in this particular case. s_smith

10:59am Tue 15 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Revkev wrote:
Ken Shuffles wrote: YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW.
Hello Ken Of course, we can all put forward other causes. And sometimes they are even more important. The point of this protest is this: It's happening now. It's happening in our area. It's something we can do now.
This Moment you have is the same one you have always had since the very beginning. You have it now, and it is more beautiful than ANY dream. More beautiful than any reality. More beautiful than any other thing we can think of. More beautiful than anything we have ever done, or not done, or will ever do.


.


You can protest all day long about what isn't.


.


People are free to protest and vocalise their objections about what isn't right, about what isn't good, and about what isn't suitable, about what isn't acceptable, about what isn't moral. People come together over the injustice of what isn't and let the absolute beauty of this moment go begging.


Women, have every right to dance for men for money if they want to. If there are men who want their brains switched off and their pockets emptied in accrington late at night then sooner or later they are going to get sex mugged.


.


WHERE ARE WOMEN WHO WANT TO DANCE IN THIS FASHION SUPPOSED TO DO IT ?
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ken Shuffles[/bold] wrote: YOU SHOULD BE MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ABUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING TO WOMEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NOT WHAT YOU SEE PUT IN THE SHOP WINDOW.[/p][/quote]Hello Ken Of course, we can all put forward other causes. And sometimes they are even more important. The point of this protest is this: It's happening now. It's happening in our area. It's something we can do now.[/p][/quote]This Moment you have is the same one you have always had since the very beginning. You have it now, and it is more beautiful than ANY dream. More beautiful than any reality. More beautiful than any other thing we can think of. More beautiful than anything we have ever done, or not done, or will ever do. . You can protest all day long about what isn't. . People are free to protest and vocalise their objections about what isn't right, about what isn't good, and about what isn't suitable, about what isn't acceptable, about what isn't moral. People come together over the injustice of what isn't and let the absolute beauty of this moment go begging. Women, have every right to dance for men for money if they want to. If there are men who want their brains switched off and their pockets emptied in accrington late at night then sooner or later they are going to get sex mugged. . WHERE ARE WOMEN WHO WANT TO DANCE IN THIS FASHION SUPPOSED TO DO IT ? Ken Shuffles

11:17am Tue 15 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Revkev wrote:
Aslam Hussain wrote: I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.
Hi Aslam, Great contribution. This sexual entertainment venue is round the corner from the town's library, the Parish Church and two other churches. It's a 100 yards from the spot where hundreds of school children are dropped off after school. It's on a high street and in front of the town ha;; and market hall, often used by young families.
Kevin,


There are SEVEN BILLION people on the planet so I think it's fair to say, some woman somewhere must be willing to have sex with a man.


.


Think about it, some woman has to be having sex somewhere for this many billions to happen Kev. Quite possibly somewhere near churches, somewhere near you, and somewhere near your family. It would not surprise me, if it has even been done in accrington town hall before today while WE PAID them for their time.


Is someone having sex in a licenced building what bothers us or just the idea of someone having sex who is not married.


(God, I really need to find that woman!!)
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Aslam Hussain[/bold] wrote: I think the point is being missed here , its not about the Club opening but the poition of the club ie near a Church and built up area. Each to their own but how can the Girls suggest they are not being exploited ? They do this kind of thing for Money and also Younger girls are doing it to pay for University fees etc which leads to more exploitation and desperation. If the club needs to open then it should be away from the wider Community and the public eye, nobody wants it on their doorstep.[/p][/quote]Hi Aslam, Great contribution. This sexual entertainment venue is round the corner from the town's library, the Parish Church and two other churches. It's a 100 yards from the spot where hundreds of school children are dropped off after school. It's on a high street and in front of the town ha;; and market hall, often used by young families.[/p][/quote]Kevin, There are SEVEN BILLION people on the planet so I think it's fair to say, some woman somewhere must be willing to have sex with a man. . Think about it, some woman has to be having sex somewhere for this many billions to happen Kev. Quite possibly somewhere near churches, somewhere near you, and somewhere near your family. It would not surprise me, if it has even been done in accrington town hall before today while WE PAID them for their time. Is someone having sex in a licenced building what bothers us or just the idea of someone having sex who is not married. (God, I really need to find that woman!!) Ken Shuffles

11:27am Tue 15 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

We teach people to FORGET the beauty of the Original Moment when we teach them all the rhetorical rights and wrongs of all the other things.
We teach people to FORGET the beauty of the Original Moment when we teach them all the rhetorical rights and wrongs of all the other things. Ken Shuffles

2:24pm Wed 16 Nov 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

Revkev wrote:
midas wrote: Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?
Hi midas, Of course it's about freedom of choice. But it's freedom of choice for all, not just those who want to set up sexual entertainment lap dancing clubs. Surely, it is right in a democratic society to be able to say "NO", and for debate and arguments to be considered. You wouldn't want objectors to be gagged would you, Midas?
That's quite clearly not what he said, in any way shape or form.

Try not twisting peoples words rev.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]midas[/bold] wrote: Wouoldn't Jesus be washing their feet? I'm not sure how you can equate "whipping out robbers from his Fathers house" with a lap dancing club? . How apt that the complaints seem to come from religious men who have control over the actions of the female members of their community. Isn't this about freedom of choice?[/p][/quote]Hi midas, Of course it's about freedom of choice. But it's freedom of choice for all, not just those who want to set up sexual entertainment lap dancing clubs. Surely, it is right in a democratic society to be able to say "NO", and for debate and arguments to be considered. You wouldn't want objectors to be gagged would you, Midas?[/p][/quote]That's quite clearly not what he said, in any way shape or form. Try not twisting peoples words rev. Joseph Yossarian

6:41pm Wed 16 Nov 11

Revkev says...

Hi Joe,
Read it again.
It relates to one of things he wrote.
especially the bit about freedom of choice.
Hi Joe, Read it again. It relates to one of things he wrote. especially the bit about freedom of choice. Revkev

8:54am Thu 17 Nov 11

Joseph Yossarian says...

Revkev wrote:
Hi Joe, Read it again. It relates to one of things he wrote. especially the bit about freedom of choice.
Nope, you are still trying to twist what other people say.


Anyway, the only city I've been to that doesn't have lap dancing bars is the vatican - and their record isn;t exactly exemplar.

The irony of seeing 500 year old paintings in the cistine chapel being vandelised by future generations of priests who were offended by nudity.

Not much changes with religion over time.

I live about 250 meters from a lap dancing bar (which I've never been into by the way)
Never seen any trouble of any kind in the area.
The area is a lot less dangerous than any I've ever lived in before.

Lapdancing bars are a basic device for redistriution of wealth, and (being slightly facetious now) help to reduce youth unemployment, which your pointy-hatted colleahie in Blackburn is waxing on about.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: Hi Joe, Read it again. It relates to one of things he wrote. especially the bit about freedom of choice.[/p][/quote]Nope, you are still trying to twist what other people say. Anyway, the only city I've been to that doesn't have lap dancing bars is the vatican - and their record isn;t exactly exemplar. The irony of seeing 500 year old paintings in the cistine chapel being vandelised by future generations of priests who were offended by nudity. Not much changes with religion over time. I live about 250 meters from a lap dancing bar (which I've never been into by the way) Never seen any trouble of any kind in the area. The area is a lot less dangerous than any I've ever lived in before. Lapdancing bars are a basic device for redistriution of wealth, and (being slightly facetious now) help to reduce youth unemployment, which your pointy-hatted colleahie in Blackburn is waxing on about. Joseph Yossarian

10:54am Thu 17 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

In the domain of the Free, people should be free to enjoy and interact with whatever. I believe in Freedom.



.


Some will glorify the phenomenal worlds of past, present and future in an attempt to attribute some meaning or purpose for it all and some will glorify the reality of this moment which is overflowing with beauty and always full of meaning and purpose.


.


Some are touched by all this phenomena and they think the phenomena is what matters. Others are touched by the beauty of this moment and they are filled, regardless of the phenomena of visible appearances.
In the domain of the Free, people should be free to enjoy and interact with whatever. I believe in Freedom. . Some will glorify the phenomenal worlds of past, present and future in an attempt to attribute some meaning or purpose for it all and some will glorify the reality of this moment which is overflowing with beauty and always full of meaning and purpose. . Some are touched by all this phenomena and they think the phenomena is what matters. Others are touched by the beauty of this moment and they are filled, regardless of the phenomena of visible appearances. Ken Shuffles

7:08pm Tue 22 Nov 11

brownbread says...

Revkev wrote:
brownbread wrote: In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'. Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me. The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that? The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005. So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry. An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women. The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year. Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex. Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience? Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers?
Hello brownbread, Thanks for your interesting contribu-tion and questions. I'd be interested to know the title of the academic report that "has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women." I'll also follow up with interest the work of Kent university. Thanks once again.
guardian march 2008 'I was seen as an object not a person' refers to academic research but doesn't reference it.
guardian april 2008 'lap dance link to prostitution and crime' again doesn't reference the research.
However, Julie Bindel of Child & Women Abuse Studies Unit at www.cwasu.org did a study for glasgow city council 'profitable exploits. Lap dancing in the UK'.

Hope useful.
[quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brownbread[/bold] wrote: In 2010 the Licencing of Lap Dancing Clubs was changed and they were removed from the cafe, karaoke bar & pub category to 'sex encounter establishment'. Sex Encounter Clubs socialise women to see pole dancing, lap dancing, exotic dancing, stripping and sexualized encounters for men as an inviting occupation. The women pay a rent fee and a hefty percentage of takings to the club. Sounds like institutional pimping to me. The Policing and Crime Act 2009 enables Councils to stop strip clubs being opened in inappropriate locations. However, Working Men's Clubs can still put on up to 12 striptease shows per annum. Would you like to object to that? The Object Campaign and the Fawcett Society worked to get the government to make these changes to the Licensing Act 2005. So the people of Accrington can write and make their objections known to the council, councillors, MPs etc. They can work against the Lap Dancing Association who brand themselves as repectable part of the leisure industry. An academic report has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women. The University of Kent is starting research into the impact of LDC to towns and cities over the next year. Sex industry venues seriously decreased the morale and reputation of an area and increase levels of crime. It normalizes women as sex slaves and men as rightful recipients of sex. Would they be viewed differently if they had male exotic dancers for a female audience? Would fiances like to their fiancees going to Hen nights to see all male pole dancers and strippers?[/p][/quote]Hello brownbread, Thanks for your interesting contribu-tion and questions. I'd be interested to know the title of the academic report that "has shown links between Lap Dancing Clubs and prostituion and human trafficking and male violence against women." I'll also follow up with interest the work of Kent university. Thanks once again.[/p][/quote]guardian march 2008 'I was seen as an object not a person' refers to academic research but doesn't reference it. guardian april 2008 'lap dance link to prostitution and crime' again doesn't reference the research. However, Julie Bindel of Child & Women Abuse Studies Unit at www.cwasu.org did a study for glasgow city council 'profitable exploits. Lap dancing in the UK'. Hope useful. brownbread

7:26pm Tue 22 Nov 11

brownbread says...

Why refer to sex encounter workers as 'girls'.
Girls are under the age of 17 years and come under child law.
Are men fantacising about child sex encounters?
Lap dancers should be over 18 years old and they are women or females and/or young adults otherwise if they are underage that is a serious crime.

Men find it easy to pass strip clubs as acceptable side of sex industry.

Who would want their son or daughter or grandson or grand daughter or nephew or neice to aspire to a career in a sex encounter exotic-lap dancing, nearly but not quite a brothel club/company.

Can parents pimp their own children for money? Yes some can and some do.
Why refer to sex encounter workers as 'girls'. Girls are under the age of 17 years and come under child law. Are men fantacising about child sex encounters? Lap dancers should be over 18 years old and they are women or females and/or young adults otherwise if they are underage that is a serious crime. Men find it easy to pass strip clubs as acceptable side of sex industry. Who would want their son or daughter or grandson or grand daughter or nephew or neice to aspire to a career in a sex encounter exotic-lap dancing, nearly but not quite a brothel club/company. Can parents pimp their own children for money? Yes some can and some do. brownbread

11:54am Mon 28 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Joseph Yossarian wrote:
Revkev wrote: Hi Joe, Read it again. It relates to one of things he wrote. especially the bit about freedom of choice.
Nope, you are still trying to twist what other people say. Anyway, the only city I've been to that doesn't have lap dancing bars is the vatican - and their record isn;t exactly exemplar. The irony of seeing 500 year old paintings in the cistine chapel being vandelised by future generations of priests who were offended by nudity. Not much changes with religion over time. I live about 250 meters from a lap dancing bar (which I've never been into by the way) Never seen any trouble of any kind in the area. The area is a lot less dangerous than any I've ever lived in before. Lapdancing bars are a basic device for redistriution of wealth, and (being slightly facetious now) help to reduce youth unemployment, which your pointy-hatted colleahie in Blackburn is waxing on about.
Actually Joe,


The Vatican City does have LAY WOMEN set up in apartments adjoining the Popes apartments. Apparently, they are there so that the Pope can seek out the advice of women in matters concerning the Church at nights.


.


Just behind that is the boneyard.
[quote][p][bold]Joseph Yossarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Revkev[/bold] wrote: Hi Joe, Read it again. It relates to one of things he wrote. especially the bit about freedom of choice.[/p][/quote]Nope, you are still trying to twist what other people say. Anyway, the only city I've been to that doesn't have lap dancing bars is the vatican - and their record isn;t exactly exemplar. The irony of seeing 500 year old paintings in the cistine chapel being vandelised by future generations of priests who were offended by nudity. Not much changes with religion over time. I live about 250 meters from a lap dancing bar (which I've never been into by the way) Never seen any trouble of any kind in the area. The area is a lot less dangerous than any I've ever lived in before. Lapdancing bars are a basic device for redistriution of wealth, and (being slightly facetious now) help to reduce youth unemployment, which your pointy-hatted colleahie in Blackburn is waxing on about.[/p][/quote]Actually Joe, The Vatican City does have LAY WOMEN set up in apartments adjoining the Popes apartments. Apparently, they are there so that the Pope can seek out the advice of women in matters concerning the Church at nights. . Just behind that is the boneyard. Ken Shuffles

11:55am Mon 28 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

The term, Roman Orgy must have originated from somewhere ?
The term, Roman Orgy must have originated from somewhere ? Ken Shuffles

12:00pm Mon 28 Nov 11

Ken Shuffles says...

Pimping Sex and Gods for money is not a new thing.
Pimping Sex and Gods for money is not a new thing. Ken Shuffles

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