Permission for Darwen car wash 'never given' (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

So whilst an application is being put together for re-submission does that mean the car wash will be able to operate inside the law?

not much point in having a planning dept really if we can all just by-pass them..
Now theres a big saving the council could make..

jackmetickler wrote:
not much point in having a planning dept really if we can all just by-pass them..
Now theres a big saving the council could make..

The council charge for planning applications. It could make a profit.

What is needed is for people to apply for the necessary permission before opening the businesses.

happycyclist wrote:
Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action.

If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ??

Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively.

Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see.
It gets even better.

Dai Darwen wrote:

happycyclist wrote:
Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action.

If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ??

Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively.

Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see.
It gets even better.

Planning permission has nothing to do with paying taxes. Unless someone complains about properties not having planning permission in place then it is difficult for the Council to find out as there are only 2 enforcement officers for the whole Borough. There are probably hundreds of (mainly small) developments in all Boroughs that don't have pp. Advertising hoardings abound without pp, - it's up to folk to complain if they think something isn't right.
*
Previously this site was used as a builders merchants - fork lift vehicles used to run onto the pavement & road.
*
The car wash is a better use than the previous builders merchant.

Lets hope they get planning permission because the lads do a great job cleaning the cars and most importantly, they are working.

english rose 1 wrote:

Dai Darwen wrote:

happycyclist wrote: Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action. If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ?? Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively. Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see. It gets even better.

Planning permission has nothing to do with paying taxes. Unless someone complains about properties not having planning permission in place then it is difficult for the Council to find out as there are only 2 enforcement officers for the whole Borough. There are probably hundreds of (mainly small) developments in all Boroughs that don't have pp. Advertising hoardings abound without pp, - it's up to folk to complain if they think something isn't right. * Previously this site was used as a builders merchants - fork lift vehicles used to run onto the pavement & road. * The car wash is a better use than the previous builders merchant.

My point is, if the Council do not know what the building or land is being used for then how do they know what to tax the owner for ?

I also remember the establishment as a garage, whether a car wash is better or not is a matter of opinion.

Providing employment and doing a good job is excellent and even better if done above board.

I find it a little concerning that establishments without pp needs to have a complaint or query from the public before being investigated. How can anyone find out if no pp has been granted, there will be no record.

Why would anyone not apply for pp when they should if not for personal gain ???

Dai Darwen wrote:

english rose 1 wrote:

Dai Darwen wrote:

happycyclist wrote: Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action. If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ?? Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively. Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see. It gets even better.

Planning permission has nothing to do with paying taxes. Unless someone complains about properties not having planning permission in place then it is difficult for the Council to find out as there are only 2 enforcement officers for the whole Borough. There are probably hundreds of (mainly small) developments in all Boroughs that don't have pp. Advertising hoardings abound without pp, - it's up to folk to complain if they think something isn't right. * Previously this site was used as a builders merchants - fork lift vehicles used to run onto the pavement & road. * The car wash is a better use than the previous builders merchant.

My point is, if the Council do not know what the building or land is being used for then how do they know what to tax the owner for ? I also remember the establishment as a garage, whether a car wash is better or not is a matter of opinion. Providing employment and doing a good job is excellent and even better if done above board. I find it a little concerning that establishments without pp needs to have a complaint or query from the public before being investigated. How can anyone find out if no pp has been granted, there will be no record. Why would anyone not apply for pp when they should if not for personal gain ???

Totally agree with You. We cannot condone businesses to operate in this manner.

HappyChappie wrote:
Lets hope they get planning permission because the lads do a great job cleaning the cars and most importantly, they are working.

Agreed.

The past winters when the roads were ALL treacherous was probably accelerated more by the fact that the numpties at the Council didn't order enough grit or the fact that they dont adequately maintain the roads and pavements to promote sufficient drainage...

...wonder if they have ordered any grit for this week? Probably not.

Anyway, you'd have to be a numpty to cycle in subzero temperatures especially when it is dark, black ice will get you before the forecourt of this carwash, you'd probably be super aware that there's gonna be ice around, so much that you'd dismount or take a wide enough birth to avoid it, making it the safest part of the A666 to cycle in winter.

They will get retrospective permission, they always do. Doesn't exactly give people the chance to voice opposition to such plans does it?

Dai Darwen wrote:

english rose 1 wrote:

Dai Darwen wrote:

happycyclist wrote: Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action. If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ?? Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively. Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see. It gets even better.

Planning permission has nothing to do with paying taxes. Unless someone complains about properties not having planning permission in place then it is difficult for the Council to find out as there are only 2 enforcement officers for the whole Borough. There are probably hundreds of (mainly small) developments in all Boroughs that don't have pp. Advertising hoardings abound without pp, - it's up to folk to complain if they think something isn't right. * Previously this site was used as a builders merchants - fork lift vehicles used to run onto the pavement & road. * The car wash is a better use than the previous builders merchant.

My point is, if the Council do not know what the building or land is being used for then how do they know what to tax the owner for ?

I also remember the establishment as a garage, whether a car wash is better or not is a matter of opinion.

Providing employment and doing a good job is excellent and even better if done above board.

I find it a little concerning that establishments without pp needs to have a complaint or query from the public before being investigated. How can anyone find out if no pp has been granted, there will be no record.

Why would anyone not apply for pp when they should if not for personal gain ???

Business taxes are set by the Govt not the Council. The business tax register is totally seperate from planning permissions.
*
It's up to the taxman to find out about new businesses & it's the responsibility of the businesses to register for tax. Nowt to do with planning permission.
*
If you know of someone working and not paying tax just report them to the taxman, - exactly same for planning permission, - if you know of someone not having the right pp just tell the Council.
*
Unfortunately the Council does not have the resources to scour the Borough, - and for the relatively small fees involved it wouldn't make economic sense. The Council relies on businesses and the public doing the right thing, - but if there is a breach and it's brought to the attention of the Planning Dept they'll try hard to put it right.

timeforcommonsense wrote:
They will get retrospective permission, they always do. Doesn't exactly give people the chance to voice opposition to such plans does it?

People can voice opinion whenever they like.

The fact that these people have been operating as long as they have would suggest that nobody has voiced a negative opinion.

HappyChappie wrote:
Lets hope they get planning permission because the lads do a great job cleaning the cars and most importantly, they are working.

Exactly, I only hear good comments about that place.

HappyChappie wrote:
Lets hope they get planning permission because the lads do a great job cleaning the cars and most importantly, they are working.

Exactly, I only hear good comments about that place.

Automatic car washes have to re-cycle their water. Does this one, and does it pay any more for the water it uses??

english rose 1 wrote:

Dai Darwen wrote:

english rose 1 wrote:

Dai Darwen wrote:

happycyclist wrote: Quite right. This is a sensible approach by Cllr Foster and he's right to be concerned about the pavements when it is cold, because the run-off from that place the previous two winters went beyond the pavements into the road and was treacherous.

If this is the case why has it taken until the 3rd winter to take action. If no planning permission does that mean they are not paying the correct tax ?? Have they had government financial help setting up the business ?? If so perhaps they should pay back what should have been paid retrospectively. Someone somewhere has messed up big style here, right on the main road as well for all to see. It gets even better.

Planning permission has nothing to do with paying taxes. Unless someone complains about properties not having planning permission in place then it is difficult for the Council to find out as there are only 2 enforcement officers for the whole Borough. There are probably hundreds of (mainly small) developments in all Boroughs that don't have pp. Advertising hoardings abound without pp, - it's up to folk to complain if they think something isn't right. * Previously this site was used as a builders merchants - fork lift vehicles used to run onto the pavement & road. * The car wash is a better use than the previous builders merchant.

My point is, if the Council do not know what the building or land is being used for then how do they know what to tax the owner for ? I also remember the establishment as a garage, whether a car wash is better or not is a matter of opinion. Providing employment and doing a good job is excellent and even better if done above board. I find it a little concerning that establishments without pp needs to have a complaint or query from the public before being investigated. How can anyone find out if no pp has been granted, there will be no record. Why would anyone not apply for pp when they should if not for personal gain ???

Business taxes are set by the Govt not the Council. The business tax register is totally seperate from planning permissions. * It's up to the taxman to find out about new businesses & it's the responsibility of the businesses to register for tax. Nowt to do with planning permission. * If you know of someone working and not paying tax just report them to the taxman, - exactly same for planning permission, - if you know of someone not having the right pp just tell the Council. * Unfortunately the Council does not have the resources to scour the Borough, - and for the relatively small fees involved it wouldn't make economic sense. The Council relies on businesses and the public doing the right thing, - but if there is a breach and it's brought to the attention of the Planning Dept they'll try hard to put it right.

Perhaps now you are aware and know exactly which department to report a possible misdemeanour to you could be an upstanding citizen and report the matter. Not that I am implying you are anything but. It just seems I know very little about these matters.

english rose 1 says
"Unfortunately the Council does not have the resources to scour the Borough, - and for the relatively small fees involved it wouldn't make economic sense"

But the Council chase me if I am two weeks late with my Council Tax payment or is it the Government.
Totally confused now.

Oh come on Dai, it is very simple. The council KNOWS when you haven't paid your council tax, because you have paid before and if you are late they know where to contact you.
.
In the case of Planning Permissions, someone could erect a building without permission and the council cannot possibly know about it unless someone else complains about it.
.
The Council collect business rates only on behalf of central government, they have little to do with any other part of it.

s_smith wrote:
Oh come on Dai, it is very simple. The council KNOWS when you haven't paid your council tax, because you have paid before and if you are late they know where to contact you. . In the case of Planning Permissions, someone could erect a building without permission and the council cannot possibly know about it unless someone else complains about it. . The Council collect business rates only on behalf of central government, they have little to do with any other part of it.

Thanks layman terms .

Got it now.

s_smith wrote:
Oh come on Dai, it is very simple. The council KNOWS when you haven't paid your council tax, because you have paid before and if you are late they know where to contact you. . In the case of Planning Permissions, someone could erect a building without permission and the council cannot possibly know about it unless someone else complains about it. . The Council collect business rates only on behalf of central government, they have little to do with any other part of it.

Thanks layman terms .

Got it now.

darwen_celeb wrote:

HappyChappie wrote:
Lets hope they get planning permission because the lads do a great job cleaning the cars and most importantly, they are working.

Agreed.

The past winters when the roads were ALL treacherous was probably accelerated more by the fact that the numpties at the Council didn't order enough grit or the fact that they dont adequately maintain the roads and pavements to promote sufficient drainage...

...wonder if they have ordered any grit for this week? Probably not.

Anyway, you'd have to be a numpty to cycle in subzero temperatures especially when it is dark, black ice will get you before the forecourt of this carwash, you'd probably be super aware that there's gonna be ice around, so much that you'd dismount or take a wide enough birth to avoid it, making it the safest part of the A666 to cycle in winter.

Who said anything about cycling in sub-zero temperatures? I was on about the pavements.
And sure it great that they do a good job and that they're working, but you wouldn't be too chuffed if you slipped on their ice and broke a hip on your way to work.
It's great that people work but even greater if no harm comes to anybody because of it.

"A spokesman for All Clean said: “I’ve had a complaint about the water and I’ve now sorted out the drainage on the site so it’s not going on the road."

Well it certainly didn't look like it when I walked past last night. Forced to walk out into the carraigeway to avoid the ice rink they had created.

Doesn't particularly bother me, just it would be nice of them to chuck some salt down when they close up at night.

So it's easy then, just rent a place that suits your needs in a dodgy name and start making money, the hell with water rates, public liability insurance, planning permission, consultation process, effluent discharge charges, employers liability insurance, H+S at work act 1974 etc etc and just make an honest and decent living as we will forgive you when your caught...if fact we'll even tell you how to apply for a government grant as your a special person because you employ people.
Arn't we all lovely people?

They're not even any good at washing cars. I asked for - and got - my £3.50 back. It was dirtier when I came out than when I went in. Never again.

Incredible Hulk wrote:
They're not even any good at washing cars. I asked for - and got - my £3.50 back. It was dirtier when I came out than when I went in. Never again.

The truth will out .. they've all got to come clean in the end .....

Incredible Hulk wrote:
They're not even any good at washing cars. I asked for - and got - my £3.50 back. It was dirtier when I came out than when I went in. Never again.

As if it did...

The council should have known about this and picked up on it. It has been there long enough now and no one has complained. Planning permission is a waste of time just more paper work not needed! One of the busiest and best car washes in Darwen! If someone sliped they should have been more careful! What do we do when it rains and turns to ice and slip...theres no one to blame! People are just being busy bodies as normal.

Incredible Hulk wrote:
They're not even any good at washing cars. I asked for - and got - my £3.50 back. It was dirtier when I came out than when I went in. Never again.

Don't want to know what you were doing inside your car to make it so dirty whilst they were hosing the pine sap and needles off the body work...

Incredible Hulk wrote:
They're not even any good at washing cars. I asked for - and got - my £3.50 back. It was dirtier when I came out than when I went in. Never again.

Don't want to know what you were doing inside your car to make it so dirty whilst they were hosing the pine sap and needles off the body work...

That's obviously after you'd taken your old Christmas tree to the tip ; )