Darwen teachers vote to strike over 'unruly' pupils

6:57pm Saturday 2nd April 2011 in Darwen Photograph of the Author By Nafeesa Shan, Reporter

STAFF at Darwen Vale High School are set to strike next week in a row over 'unruly' pupils.

The unions have revealed that staff at the Holden Fold school voted overwhelming to take action following a ballot.

They will now be protesting outside the school on Thursday.

If the strike goes ahead, the school will have to close.

NUT national executive and Blackburn with Darwen representative Simon Jones said: “Things haven’t improved.

"Whilst we have continued to meet with management, there has been no concrete movement.

“We are committed to working with man-agement between now and next week. We may reduce the action from a day to an hour.”

Unions said staff felt the school was ‘out of control’ and they were receiving several complaints each day from teachers.

John Girdley, NAS/UWT national executive and Lancashire representative, said: “We, the teachers, sincerely hope that changes can be implemented as a matter of urgency, by the schools management, in order to allow the staff of the school to continue to deliver the high standard of education which our pupils deserve.”

Darwen Vale headteacher Hilary Torpey, said: “We are still in discussion with the unions and hope that we can address these issues as quickly as possible to avoid any disruption to pupils, the school, and the wider school community.”

Related links

In the ballot, around 95per cent of the 31 National Union of Teachers, or NUT, members voted in favour of the strike.

And around 66per cent of the 29 NAS/UWT members also voted to take strike action.

Comments (69)

7:04pm Sat 2 Apr 11

-No1- says...

I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening! -No1-

7:35pm Sat 2 Apr 11

burner says...

insanity !
insanity ! burner

7:35pm Sat 2 Apr 11

chris283 says...

i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react
i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react chris283

7:36pm Sat 2 Apr 11

burnley5960 says...

chris283 wrote:
i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react
Better still fetch the cane and retired headmaster.com
[quote][p][bold]chris283[/bold] wrote: i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react[/p][/quote]Better still fetch the cane and retired headmaster.com burnley5960

8:47pm Sat 2 Apr 11

enochpowell2 says...

-No1- wrote:
I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ......

I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) .

Enough said .
[quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said . enochpowell2

8:52pm Sat 2 Apr 11

NRUK says...

As a parent of a child at this school, the problem is clear. They are not striking over pupil behaviour! It is regarding the Management and the new Head.
Since she arrived, things have got worse and worse and even my daughter can see it.
Please don’t blame the kids. The incompentent head is the issue here
As a parent of a child at this school, the problem is clear. They are not striking over pupil behaviour! It is regarding the Management and the new Head. Since she arrived, things have got worse and worse and even my daughter can see it. Please don’t blame the kids. The incompentent head is the issue here NRUK

9:29pm Sat 2 Apr 11

burner says...

NRUK wrote:
As a parent of a child at this school, the problem is clear. They are not striking over pupil behaviour! It is regarding the Management and the new Head.
Since she arrived, things have got worse and worse and even my daughter can see it.
Please don’t blame the kids. The incompentent head is the issue here
From what I hear,too, there is probably a lot in this.
[quote][p][bold]NRUK[/bold] wrote: As a parent of a child at this school, the problem is clear. They are not striking over pupil behaviour! It is regarding the Management and the new Head. Since she arrived, things have got worse and worse and even my daughter can see it. Please don’t blame the kids. The incompentent head is the issue here[/p][/quote]From what I hear,too, there is probably a lot in this. burner

10:08pm Sat 2 Apr 11

darwen sense says...

Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.
Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community. darwen sense

10:33pm Sat 2 Apr 11

davo81 says...

Even though Darwen has a point, in a way we've created a monster and the pupils "hold all the aces" now, I had the misfortune of working with this headteacher in the past and all the staff were unhappy at that school aswell, she has zero leadership skills and I bet she has very little support in the school. Maybe in this case she's the problem
Even though Darwen has a point, in a way we've created a monster and the pupils "hold all the aces" now, I had the misfortune of working with this headteacher in the past and all the staff were unhappy at that school aswell, she has zero leadership skills and I bet she has very little support in the school. Maybe in this case she's the problem davo81

12:10am Sun 3 Apr 11

tobehonest says...

chris283 wrote:
i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react
I wonder why you had to go in to his school? I work in a school (not this one) and people like you do make our job a lot harder. I hope he doesn't ask you for help with his English homework!
[quote][p][bold]chris283[/bold] wrote: i had to go in to this school when one of the teachers shouted down ma nephews ear they spend half the time drinking coffee and gabbing sack the lot of um if they talk to people like crap obvious the kids will react[/p][/quote]I wonder why you had to go in to his school? I work in a school (not this one) and people like you do make our job a lot harder. I hope he doesn't ask you for help with his English homework! tobehonest

12:11am Sun 3 Apr 11

tobehonest says...

I wonder why you had to go in to his school? I work in a school (not this one) and people like you do make our job a lot harder. I hope he doesn't ask you for help with his English homework!
I wonder why you had to go in to his school? I work in a school (not this one) and people like you do make our job a lot harder. I hope he doesn't ask you for help with his English homework! tobehonest

6:44am Sun 3 Apr 11

time will tell says...

Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.
Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen. time will tell

7:39am Sun 3 Apr 11

Excluded again says...

This is a sad situation. It is extremely unusual (I have never heard of teachers striking for this reason before anywhere) and points to a complete failure of leadership in the school.

As schools are largely self-managed these days rather than controlled by the local Council, it is down to the governors to get a grip.The apparent lack of any action by the governors is worrying as they are the people who need to sort this out.
This is a sad situation. It is extremely unusual (I have never heard of teachers striking for this reason before anywhere) and points to a complete failure of leadership in the school. As schools are largely self-managed these days rather than controlled by the local Council, it is down to the governors to get a grip.The apparent lack of any action by the governors is worrying as they are the people who need to sort this out. Excluded again

8:13am Sun 3 Apr 11

ste.g says...

its simple really remove the bad management and stop pandering to the kids.get a grip.
its simple really remove the bad management and stop pandering to the kids.get a grip. ste.g

8:38am Sun 3 Apr 11

burtybasset says...

as a pupil at the school i think its ace,you can ride ur motorbikes down the corridors,pupils rule
as a pupil at the school i think its ace,you can ride ur motorbikes down the corridors,pupils rule burtybasset

8:54am Sun 3 Apr 11

britguy says...

Spare the rod and spoil the child. This is what the teaching unions wanted...no form of discipline, let the young ones express themselves, stop parents disciplining children.
Well now the left have exactly what they wished for.
Spare the rod and spoil the child. This is what the teaching unions wanted...no form of discipline, let the young ones express themselves, stop parents disciplining children. Well now the left have exactly what they wished for. britguy

9:08am Sun 3 Apr 11

chris283 says...

wat the hell you papping at tobehonest your a prime example of the way teachers work today if you had read it properly i said why i went in to the school , i suggest you find another career cause you dont take much notice to detail do you no wonder the kids are like they are today
wat the hell you papping at tobehonest your a prime example of the way teachers work today if you had read it properly i said why i went in to the school , i suggest you find another career cause you dont take much notice to detail do you no wonder the kids are like they are today chris283

9:18am Sun 3 Apr 11

chris283 says...

Tobehonest why have you sent the same comment twice like i say you dont take much notice to detail do you wat more can i say be a school dinner lady that might suite lol
Tobehonest why have you sent the same comment twice like i say you dont take much notice to detail do you wat more can i say be a school dinner lady that might suite lol chris283

9:22am Sun 3 Apr 11

past it says...

What ever the problem its the kids that are loosing out, as in all walks of life there will be good and bad kids at this school, how its managed by the staff is what counts. teachers stop behaving like kids and do your jobs, shame on all staff, headteachers, the board, you are failing the children at Darwen Vale.
What ever the problem its the kids that are loosing out, as in all walks of life there will be good and bad kids at this school, how its managed by the staff is what counts. teachers stop behaving like kids and do your jobs, shame on all staff, headteachers, the board, you are failing the children at Darwen Vale. past it

9:26am Sun 3 Apr 11

enochpowell2 says...

enochpowell2 wrote:
-No1- wrote:
I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ......

I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) .

Enough said .
Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol

You also missed the 's' from previously !
[quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .[/p][/quote]Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously ! enochpowell2

9:52am Sun 3 Apr 11

burner says...

burtybasset wrote:
as a pupil at the school i think its ace,you can ride ur motorbikes down the corridors,pupils rule
Excellently funny !!! . . . . is it true ?
[quote][p][bold]burtybasset[/bold] wrote: as a pupil at the school i think its ace,you can ride ur motorbikes down the corridors,pupils rule[/p][/quote]Excellently funny !!! . . . . is it true ? burner

9:53am Sun 3 Apr 11

Joepublicspeaking says...

No comment from BWD? No interview with the man in charge of Education in the Borough, Andrew Lightfoot? Come on LT get your act together and find out how the powers that be propose to resolve this and start giving children the education that they deserve.
No comment from BWD? No interview with the man in charge of Education in the Borough, Andrew Lightfoot? Come on LT get your act together and find out how the powers that be propose to resolve this and start giving children the education that they deserve. Joepublicspeaking

10:31am Sun 3 Apr 11

single malt says...

Just because this is a debate is about schools! most of the comments are about spelling and grammar.
Maybe this is why the pupils are kicking off, because of the rude way you are correcting people about there grammar and not digesting what they are talking about!
They are just comments, we are not writting a letter to the queen!!!!!!!!!
Just because this is a debate is about schools! most of the comments are about spelling and grammar. Maybe this is why the pupils are kicking off, because of the rude way you are correcting people about there grammar and not digesting what they are talking about! They are just comments, we are not writting a letter to the queen!!!!!!!!! single malt

10:59am Sun 3 Apr 11

Excluded again says...

Joepublicspeaking wrote:
No comment from BWD? No interview with the man in charge of Education in the Borough, Andrew Lightfoot? Come on LT get your act together and find out how the powers that be propose to resolve this and start giving children the education that they deserve.
Unfortunately, the powers that Councils have over Education and Schools have been gradually reduced over the last 20 years. Even those remaining powers are being reduced by the new government whose vision is that Councils will have no powers at all over 'free schools'.

Schools are now more or less self-managing and the Council can only advise and support. Its down to the governors to sort this out.

It is ironic that people have called for Councils to have less power to 'interfere' in schools, but once there is a problem Councils are expected to be able to 'interfere' as they could in the past.
[quote][p][bold]Joepublicspeaking[/bold] wrote: No comment from BWD? No interview with the man in charge of Education in the Borough, Andrew Lightfoot? Come on LT get your act together and find out how the powers that be propose to resolve this and start giving children the education that they deserve.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, the powers that Councils have over Education and Schools have been gradually reduced over the last 20 years. Even those remaining powers are being reduced by the new government whose vision is that Councils will have no powers at all over 'free schools'. Schools are now more or less self-managing and the Council can only advise and support. Its down to the governors to sort this out. It is ironic that people have called for Councils to have less power to 'interfere' in schools, but once there is a problem Councils are expected to be able to 'interfere' as they could in the past. Excluded again

11:44am Sun 3 Apr 11

RK says...

chris283 wrote:
Tobehonest why have you sent the same comment twice like i say you dont take much notice to detail do you wat more can i say be a school dinner lady that might suite lol
I don't understand what you are waffling on about, please elaborate.
[quote][p][bold]chris283[/bold] wrote: Tobehonest why have you sent the same comment twice like i say you dont take much notice to detail do you wat more can i say be a school dinner lady that might suite lol[/p][/quote]I don't understand what you are waffling on about, please elaborate. RK

12:37pm Sun 3 Apr 11

useyourhead says...

If it is the heads lack of skills in certain areas, why would they publicly say it was because of unruly pupils? I can't imagine they would abandon the ethic of putting the childrens needs as priority by using them as a scapegoat for the real reason there is unease. Surely, if there is any truth to it, they would say it was because of their lack of faith in and support for the head?
If it is the heads lack of skills in certain areas, why would they publicly say it was because of unruly pupils? I can't imagine they would abandon the ethic of putting the childrens needs as priority by using them as a scapegoat for the real reason there is unease. Surely, if there is any truth to it, they would say it was because of their lack of faith in and support for the head? useyourhead

12:37pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Scooby says...

If it's got to the stage where teachers are striking for this reason, shouldn't OFSTED be called in to see as independent inspectors to see what the problems are and intervene or give guidance on resolving the problems? In the mean time, it's the young people who are suffering from poor education and support when teachers aren't able to do their jobs properly
If it's got to the stage where teachers are striking for this reason, shouldn't OFSTED be called in to see as independent inspectors to see what the problems are and intervene or give guidance on resolving the problems? In the mean time, it's the young people who are suffering from poor education and support when teachers aren't able to do their jobs properly Scooby

12:51pm Sun 3 Apr 11

happycyclist says...

ste.g wrote:
its simple really remove the bad management and stop pandering to the kids.get a grip.
Succint and to the point.
[quote][p][bold]ste.g[/bold] wrote: its simple really remove the bad management and stop pandering to the kids.get a grip.[/p][/quote]Succint and to the point. happycyclist

1:06pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Wallace the lion says...

time will tell wrote:
Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.
The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.
[quote][p][bold]time will tell[/bold] wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.[/p][/quote]The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one. Wallace the lion

1:11pm Sun 3 Apr 11

CPB. says...

enochpowell2 wrote:
enochpowell2 wrote:
-No1- wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .
Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously !
We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case.
Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech.
[quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .[/p][/quote]Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously ![/p][/quote]We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case. Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech. CPB.

1:14pm Sun 3 Apr 11

CPB. says...

CPB. wrote:
enochpowell2 wrote:
enochpowell2 wrote:
-No1- wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .
Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously !
We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case. Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech.
Thought I would correct myself before you correct me, I meant to put a capital 'I' in a certain sentence.
[quote][p][bold]CPB.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .[/p][/quote]Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously ![/p][/quote]We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case. Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech.[/p][/quote]Thought I would correct myself before you correct me, I meant to put a capital 'I' in a certain sentence. CPB.

1:22pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Chris P Bacon says...

darwen sense wrote:
Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.
Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike!

Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like.
[quote][p][bold]darwen sense[/bold] wrote: Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.[/p][/quote]Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike! Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like. Chris P Bacon

2:55pm Sun 3 Apr 11

enochpowell2 says...

CPB. wrote:
CPB. wrote:
enochpowell2 wrote:
enochpowell2 wrote:
-No1- wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .
Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously !
We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case. Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech.
Thought I would correct myself before you correct me, I meant to put a capital 'I' in a certain sentence.
To quick for me !

PS

Many grammarians still consider it unacceptable to start a sentence with and. In their opinion, doing so creates a sentence fragment, not a complete sentence.
[quote][p][bold]CPB.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CPB.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .[/p][/quote]Just noticed that I spelt capital incorrectly ! Lol You also missed the 's' from previously ![/p][/quote]We are not debating 'spelling'. Did it occur to you, that this pupil may be in their first year? Or maybe their second? They don't all know how to spell long words, but maybe it was just an accident like you accidently spelt 'capital' wrong. So as i am also a pupil but in my last year of this school, I think it is good that this other pupil is caring enough to comment, to get their point across, so their spelling doesn't matter in this case. Also you can start a sentence with 'And' but only in some terms of speech.[/p][/quote]Thought I would correct myself before you correct me, I meant to put a capital 'I' in a certain sentence.[/p][/quote]To quick for me ! PS Many grammarians still consider it unacceptable to start a sentence with and. In their opinion, doing so creates a sentence fragment, not a complete sentence. enochpowell2

3:38pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Dai Darwen says...

No comment about the Union's part in this debate I see. It is the Union that has stated they are striking because of unruly students. Now if the cause is tha Head and she is a Union member the Union would not go on strike against one of their members, would they ? I also wonder which side is not making concrete movement. I take it the Union want everything their way, ergo no concrete movement from them. I think they have shifted the onus very nicely across to anybodt and everybody as they usually do. There is a lot more to this, watch this space.
No comment about the Union's part in this debate I see. It is the Union that has stated they are striking because of unruly students. Now if the cause is tha Head and she is a Union member the Union would not go on strike against one of their members, would they ? I also wonder which side is not making concrete movement. I take it the Union want everything their way, ergo no concrete movement from them. I think they have shifted the onus very nicely across to anybodt and everybody as they usually do. There is a lot more to this, watch this space. Dai Darwen

4:04pm Sun 3 Apr 11

happycyclist says...

Chris P Bacon wrote:
darwen sense wrote:
Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.
Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike!

Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like.
Teachers? Bone-idle parasites?

That's one of the most idiotic comments I've ever read on here.
[quote][p][bold]Chris P Bacon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]darwen sense[/bold] wrote: Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.[/p][/quote]Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike! Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like.[/p][/quote]Teachers? Bone-idle parasites? That's one of the most idiotic comments I've ever read on here. happycyclist

4:33pm Sun 3 Apr 11

burner says...

these bone-idle parasites - now that is UNFAIR !!
these bone-idle parasites - now that is UNFAIR !! burner

5:14pm Sun 3 Apr 11

MJT says...

I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".
I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children". MJT

5:49pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Dai Darwen says...

MJT wrote:
I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".
On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline.
[quote][p][bold]MJT[/bold] wrote: I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".[/p][/quote]On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline. Dai Darwen

6:07pm Sun 3 Apr 11

time will tell says...

Wallace the lion wrote:
time will tell wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.
The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.
Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that.
[quote][p][bold]Wallace the lion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]time will tell[/bold] wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.[/p][/quote]The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.[/p][/quote]Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that. time will tell

7:14pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Teacher7452 says...

Chris P Bacon wrote:
darwen sense wrote:
Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.
Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike!

Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like.
Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity.

Sounds very much like someone who is jealous. I have never met a single teacher who went in to the profession for the holidays.

No teacher wants to strike! For this to be the case the Headteacher must have lost the plot, surely she could speak to her staff, listen to them and meet them somewhere in the middle to avoid this terrible action?
[quote][p][bold]Chris P Bacon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]darwen sense[/bold] wrote: Back up the teachers. They would not strike for no reason. Too many pupils now have the upper hand as they have lost respect for authority. A liberal minded country has caused this problem, we have lost control in many classrooms. This spreads out onto wider society to how they even behave on the streets. These kids drinking on street corners and causing anti social problems in the community.[/p][/quote]Don't talk cobblers. Teachers would strike for any reason and as they can't cope with normal teenage behaviour and no-one will listen to their wet mary-ellen moaning, they go on strike! Anything to increase the time off for these bone-idle parasites. 14 weeks holiday not being enough, like.[/p][/quote]Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity. Sounds very much like someone who is jealous. I have never met a single teacher who went in to the profession for the holidays. No teacher wants to strike! For this to be the case the Headteacher must have lost the plot, surely she could speak to her staff, listen to them and meet them somewhere in the middle to avoid this terrible action? Teacher7452

7:32pm Sun 3 Apr 11

chris283 says...

R K you another who is not observant read wat a have put godsake you all thick or wat
R K you another who is not observant read wat a have put godsake you all thick or wat chris283

7:43pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

"Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity."
.
All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people.
"Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity." . All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people. Graham Hartley

8:44pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Mary Queen of Spots says...

Graham Hartley wrote:
"Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity."
.
All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people.
I notice that you don't go so far as to reveal where you live! Clogmarch? wtf is that?
[quote][p][bold]Graham Hartley[/bold] wrote: "Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity." . All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people.[/p][/quote]I notice that you don't go so far as to reveal where you live! Clogmarch? wtf is that? Mary Queen of Spots

8:48pm Sun 3 Apr 11

RK says...

chris283 wrote:
R K you another who is not observant read wat a have put godsake you all thick or wat
Still can't understand your Klingon speak, please put your reply in English.
[quote][p][bold]chris283[/bold] wrote: R K you another who is not observant read wat a have put godsake you all thick or wat[/p][/quote]Still can't understand your Klingon speak, please put your reply in English. RK

9:09pm Sun 3 Apr 11

MJT says...

Dai Darwen wrote:
MJT wrote: I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".
On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline.
Thanks, Dai, you raise some good points. On the subject of corporal punishment, I was doing a PGCE some years ago and I read a book by a classroom discipline guru, who was widely respected in the teaching community. He spent the majority of the book detailing strategies teachers should use in classroom management. He said that corporal punishment was totally wrong. However, he also mentioned that there was a class he went back to teaching after a sabbatical that he found himself totally unable to control. If a classroom discipline guru can't control a class, we've clearly got a problem. And if he can recall that incident in the same book in which he mentioned that corporal punishment is wrong, I'm left thinking how such an idiot can have managed to be regarded as a "guru". I hated my teaching experience, and got out of it, so I think all of what you said is sensible.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Darwen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MJT[/bold] wrote: I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".[/p][/quote]On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline.[/p][/quote]Thanks, Dai, you raise some good points. On the subject of corporal punishment, I was doing a PGCE some years ago and I read a book by a classroom discipline guru, who was widely respected in the teaching community. He spent the majority of the book detailing strategies teachers should use in classroom management. He said that corporal punishment was totally wrong. However, he also mentioned that there was a class he went back to teaching after a sabbatical that he found himself totally unable to control. If a classroom discipline guru can't control a class, we've clearly got a problem. And if he can recall that incident in the same book in which he mentioned that corporal punishment is wrong, I'm left thinking how such an idiot can have managed to be regarded as a "guru". I hated my teaching experience, and got out of it, so I think all of what you said is sensible. MJT

9:20pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

MJT, Dai et alia...
.
I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure.
.
Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming.
MJT, Dai et alia... . I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure. . Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming. Graham Hartley

9:27pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

Ah, Dai Darwen from Pontcysyllte! If we exchanged correspondence in Welsh here we'd be told off. Nos da!
Ah, Dai Darwen from Pontcysyllte! If we exchanged correspondence in Welsh here we'd be told off. Nos da! Graham Hartley

9:52pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

Mary Queen of Spots wrote:
Graham Hartley wrote:
"Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity."
.
All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people.
I notice that you don't go so far as to reveal where you live! Clogmarch? wtf is that?
'Clogmarch' is my reduction from the names of towns in Hyndburn: Clayton-le-Moors, Oswaldtwistle, Great Harwood others. I am not yet quite so soft in the head as to tell you and other nasties in which part of Clogmarch I live. When out I wear steel-toed boots and usually choose for company my large rescue Staffy who is very choosy about who gets close to his daddy. His grandfather was a great white shark, I fancy. In any case, when once we walked in darkness from Rishton to Great Harwood he was proof against two nasty humans with a 'pet' dog not on a lead.
.
A point: the relationship between some teachers and some pupils is akin to that between me and my Staffy, and that's good.
[quote][p][bold]Mary Queen of Spots[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graham Hartley[/bold] wrote: "Whoever this person is should be locked away for their unbelievable stupidity." . All who correspond here should use their given names to aid the discovery of these utterly foolish, senseless people.[/p][/quote]I notice that you don't go so far as to reveal where you live! Clogmarch? wtf is that?[/p][/quote]'Clogmarch' is my reduction from the names of towns in Hyndburn: Clayton-le-Moors, Oswaldtwistle, Great Harwood others. I am not yet quite so soft in the head as to tell you and other nasties in which part of Clogmarch I live. When out I wear steel-toed boots and usually choose for company my large rescue Staffy who is very choosy about who gets close to his daddy. His grandfather was a great white shark, I fancy. In any case, when once we walked in darkness from Rishton to Great Harwood he was proof against two nasty humans with a 'pet' dog not on a lead. . A point: the relationship between some teachers and some pupils is akin to that between me and my Staffy, and that's good. Graham Hartley

10:45pm Sun 3 Apr 11

MJT says...

Graham Hartley wrote:
MJT, Dai et alia... . I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure. . Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming.
Any kind of punishment for inability alone is wrong, whether it be physical or verbal. I realise that in times past teachers did dispense punishment for inability, and again, this was very wrong. However, I would use corporal punishment as a deterent for disruption of the classroom. The point is, if employees in a workplace behaved as some pupils do, they would be dismissed immediately and escorted off the premises by the police if necessary. Since it is extremely difficult to expel pupils nowadays, some other deterrent is necessary. If no effective deterrents exist, we are sending the message to kids that they can do exactly what they want, without having to fear any consequences.
[quote][p][bold]Graham Hartley[/bold] wrote: MJT, Dai et alia... . I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure. . Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming.[/p][/quote]Any kind of punishment for inability alone is wrong, whether it be physical or verbal. I realise that in times past teachers did dispense punishment for inability, and again, this was very wrong. However, I would use corporal punishment as a deterent for disruption of the classroom. The point is, if employees in a workplace behaved as some pupils do, they would be dismissed immediately and escorted off the premises by the police if necessary. Since it is extremely difficult to expel pupils nowadays, some other deterrent is necessary. If no effective deterrents exist, we are sending the message to kids that they can do exactly what they want, without having to fear any consequences. MJT

10:58pm Sun 3 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

MJT wrote:
Graham Hartley wrote:
MJT, Dai et alia... . I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure. . Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming.
Any kind of punishment for inability alone is wrong, whether it be physical or verbal. I realise that in times past teachers did dispense punishment for inability, and again, this was very wrong. However, I would use corporal punishment as a deterent for disruption of the classroom. The point is, if employees in a workplace behaved as some pupils do, they would be dismissed immediately and escorted off the premises by the police if necessary. Since it is extremely difficult to expel pupils nowadays, some other deterrent is necessary. If no effective deterrents exist, we are sending the message to kids that they can do exactly what they want, without having to fear any consequences.
Indeed, if there is no punishment via the body then there can remain no punishment but that via the mind. Yet for those with a powerful mind this can be the most telling: dig the stones from the school playing field without concern for whether or not they may be of archeological interest, for example. This was the situation of pupils in Prestatyn, who thereby discovered Roman remains. Ha!
[quote][p][bold]MJT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graham Hartley[/bold] wrote: MJT, Dai et alia... . I find your support of corporal punishment quite odd. It is the minds of the unruly, not their bodies, which deserve censure. . Until I found a place to learn where pupils were punished only for unwillingness, it was for inability that I was so often punished. I was schooled by the slap and cane; and though it is rough justice for teachers at Darwen Vale, they had it coming.[/p][/quote]Any kind of punishment for inability alone is wrong, whether it be physical or verbal. I realise that in times past teachers did dispense punishment for inability, and again, this was very wrong. However, I would use corporal punishment as a deterent for disruption of the classroom. The point is, if employees in a workplace behaved as some pupils do, they would be dismissed immediately and escorted off the premises by the police if necessary. Since it is extremely difficult to expel pupils nowadays, some other deterrent is necessary. If no effective deterrents exist, we are sending the message to kids that they can do exactly what they want, without having to fear any consequences.[/p][/quote]Indeed, if there is no punishment via the body then there can remain no punishment but that via the mind. Yet for those with a powerful mind this can be the most telling: dig the stones from the school playing field without concern for whether or not they may be of archeological interest, for example. This was the situation of pupils in Prestatyn, who thereby discovered Roman remains. Ha! Graham Hartley

8:18am Mon 4 Apr 11

spongebob74 says...

Why not remove the unruly pupils so that the hard working pupils can get on with their education. Publishing things like this is just giving the unruly ammunition to carry on as the probably think it's great they've made the headlines. My son goes to the school and isn't one of the unruly pupils but it looks like all the pupils are being tarred with the same brush. I never heard of anything like this happening when miss dunning was headteacher (god rest her sole). Hopefully all this will be sorted out before the pupils start their gcse exams.
Why not remove the unruly pupils so that the hard working pupils can get on with their education. Publishing things like this is just giving the unruly ammunition to carry on as the probably think it's great they've made the headlines. My son goes to the school and isn't one of the unruly pupils but it looks like all the pupils are being tarred with the same brush. I never heard of anything like this happening when miss dunning was headteacher (god rest her sole). Hopefully all this will be sorted out before the pupils start their gcse exams. spongebob74

11:58am Mon 4 Apr 11

HAPPY PLOTTER says...

Just a quick question - has anyone actually bothered to speak to the pupils who want to learn to see what their actual concerns are? And the teachers who have problems - has anybody spoken to them who is totally independent to see if there is anything that can be done to mend some bridges? Hopefully, then both the teachers and pupils could come together and work together to sort out their joint problems of unruly pupils and possible management problems. By striking you are inbedding in the pupils that if something is happening that you do not like you can just sulk, walk out and let someone else sort the problems out. Try working together before affecting every single pupil in the School. Now, before everyone starts - I know the teachers have a 'legal right to strike' but they also have a moral duty to teach the pupils they have in their classes. None of this bodes well for teachers being rewarded with 'respect' from their pupils. To the pupils who have added their comments on this post - well done, you care enough to put down in words your concerns and as such you show that you care enough about your School and prove that you actually want to learn so well done.......
Just a quick question - has anyone actually bothered to speak to the pupils who want to learn to see what their actual concerns are? And the teachers who have problems - has anybody spoken to them who is totally independent to see if there is anything that can be done to mend some bridges? Hopefully, then both the teachers and pupils could come together and work together to sort out their joint problems of unruly pupils and possible management problems. By striking you are inbedding in the pupils that if something is happening that you do not like you can just sulk, walk out and let someone else sort the problems out. Try working together before affecting every single pupil in the School. Now, before everyone starts - I know the teachers have a 'legal right to strike' but they also have a moral duty to teach the pupils they have in their classes. None of this bodes well for teachers being rewarded with 'respect' from their pupils. To the pupils who have added their comments on this post - well done, you care enough to put down in words your concerns and as such you show that you care enough about your School and prove that you actually want to learn so well done....... HAPPY PLOTTER

12:45pm Mon 4 Apr 11

got out of blackburn says...

EnochPowell

It's capital, not capitol. Back to school for you!
EnochPowell It's capital, not capitol. Back to school for you! got out of blackburn

2:17pm Mon 4 Apr 11

A Darener says...

I think the whole school's been watching too much Waterloo Road.
I think the whole school's been watching too much Waterloo Road. A Darener

4:57pm Mon 4 Apr 11

pwei73 says...

"STAFF at Darwen Vale High School are set to strike next week."

Its the school Holidays if they want to strike when on holiday let them only the site staff & contractors will be around to see them lol.
"STAFF at Darwen Vale High School are set to strike next week." Its the school Holidays if they want to strike when on holiday let them only the site staff & contractors will be around to see them lol. pwei73

5:30pm Mon 4 Apr 11

Diogenes The Cynic says...

Headline:
"Darwen teachers vote to strike over 'unruly' pupils"
Truth - the issue is with management at the school. The Unions KNOW this, the Teachers know this, the pupils know this... let's have the real story!
Headline: "Darwen teachers vote to strike over 'unruly' pupils" Truth - the issue is with management at the school. The Unions KNOW this, the Teachers know this, the pupils know this... let's have the real story! Diogenes The Cynic

5:48pm Mon 4 Apr 11

spongebob74 says...

pwei73 the teachers are striking this Thursday not during the holidays
pwei73 the teachers are striking this Thursday not during the holidays spongebob74

5:51pm Mon 4 Apr 11

enochpowell2 says...

got out of blackburn wrote:
EnochPowell

It's capital, not capitol. Back to school for you!
I did point that out myself quite a few comments back !
[quote][p][bold]got out of blackburn[/bold] wrote: EnochPowell It's capital, not capitol. Back to school for you![/p][/quote]I did point that out myself quite a few comments back ! enochpowell2

8:48pm Mon 4 Apr 11

-No1- says...

enochpowell2 wrote:
-No1- wrote:
I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening!
Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ......

I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) .

Enough said .
Well sorry for my inability to spell but you are missing the point, we are not resposible for the teachers striking! And to say i am only 12 years old, you picking out the mistakes is rather snobish and pointless. Thank you, bye
[quote][p][bold]enochpowell2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-No1-[/bold] wrote: I am a pupil from the school and as i have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt been reached the staffs needs. And if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually happening![/p][/quote]Looking at your use of the English language one thinks that it should be the pupils striking because of the lack of adequate teaching staff . Corrections follow ...... I am a pupil from the school and as i ( should be a capitol letter ) have said previouly they are striking because of the new head teacher, she hasnt ( should use an apostrophe ) been reached the staffs needs ( that sentence does not make sense ). And ( should not start a sentence with and ) if you need this theory backed up then please ask some teachers of ( should be from the school ) the school so please stop pointing the finger at the pupils and take a closer look at what is acctually ( only one c in actually )happenin ( has a g on the end ) . Enough said .[/p][/quote]Well sorry for my inability to spell but you are missing the point, we are not resposible for the teachers striking! And to say i am only 12 years old, you picking out the mistakes is rather snobish and pointless. Thank you, bye -No1-

8:56pm Mon 4 Apr 11

-No1- says...

And i did put a "g" on the end of happening and you spell it capital not "capitol" so take a look at your own "english language"
And i did put a "g" on the end of happening and you spell it capital not "capitol" so take a look at your own "english language" -No1-

10:05pm Mon 4 Apr 11

KarenH says...

time will tell wrote:
Wallace the lion wrote:
time will tell wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.
The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.
Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that.
" time will tell wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.

The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.

Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that."


I agree that Labour brought education bill in so that children stay on at school until they're 18....

But dont forget the Conservatives and Lib Dem'a can increase V.A.T over night like they do with fuel etc... now if they can do this overnight then why not scrap the education bill after all they can change other things over night, weeks and months... how long did it take for them mention the 20% V.A.T increase for January and then it came into force...a matter of months!
[quote][p][bold]time will tell[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wallace the lion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]time will tell[/bold] wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen.[/p][/quote]The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one.[/p][/quote]Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that.[/p][/quote]" time will tell wrote: Things will get a lot harder for teachers when the Con Dems force kids to stay in education until they are eighteen. The education bill making kids stay on until 18 was proposed in January 2007 when Tony Blair was PM. It became law in November 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM. There's plenty to blame the Con Dems for, but not this one. Yeah, you`re right, I stand corrected, but many will be forced to continue their education without EMA which could make life very difficult for teachers - I can certainly blame the Con Dems for that." I agree that Labour brought education bill in so that children stay on at school until they're 18.... But dont forget the Conservatives and Lib Dem'a can increase V.A.T over night like they do with fuel etc... now if they can do this overnight then why not scrap the education bill after all they can change other things over night, weeks and months... how long did it take for them mention the 20% V.A.T increase for January and then it came into force...a matter of months! KarenH

12:07am Tue 5 Apr 11

foundations of calculus says...

Here's some work for all affected by teachers' absences from lessons.
.
In usual notation, the defining equation for capacitance q = cv can be differentiated with respect to time, thus: dq/dt = cdv/dt where the left hand side is the current i.
.
Hence i = cdv/dt, a most useful equation when dealing with capacitors. We see that when dv/dt is zero there is no current. Indeed there will be current only when the voltage changes. In ac, suppose the applied voltage is v = Vsinwt in (almost) conventional notation. For homework and in what remains of your lesson, differentiate this with respect to t, substitute for dv/dt above and consider what is before you.
Here's some work for all affected by teachers' absences from lessons. . In usual notation, the defining equation for capacitance q = cv can be differentiated with respect to time, thus: dq/dt = cdv/dt where the left hand side is the current i. . Hence i = cdv/dt, a most useful equation when dealing with capacitors. We see that when dv/dt is zero there is no current. Indeed there will be current only when the voltage changes. In ac, suppose the applied voltage is v = Vsinwt in (almost) conventional notation. For homework and in what remains of your lesson, differentiate this with respect to t, substitute for dv/dt above and consider what is before you. foundations of calculus

9:40am Tue 5 Apr 11

Old_Vale_Boy says...

Has anyone with complaints about the Head, senior management, discipline, approached the school directly either through staff or the governors to ask what is really going on?

I would argue there has been a dignified silence from the school on this issue as the education and welfare of the pupils is of paramount importance to them and a lot of hard work has been going on behind the scenes to resolve these issues.

Is there an argument that the unions have gone down this path with an agenda other than that set out in the recent press articles?

This situation seems to be turning more away from the discipline issue, (point of fact, the school's discipline record has been as excellent as it's GCSE attainment) to personal attacks on the Head and her management style.

Knowing the commitment of a number of governors at Vale, they will support every member of the school to carry on making it a success and that is how it will be judged in the future, not by fancy buildings but by the quality of young people coming out of it's doors ready to take up the difficult task of being an adult. Which some adult's in this situation seem to be struggling with themselves.

Rather than using headlines to put forward a blinkered, back in my day point of view I would suggest that the people who are quick to condemn this school take the time and effort to get to know it properly.

A tiny flea can cause a lot of discomfort.
Has anyone with complaints about the Head, senior management, discipline, approached the school directly either through staff or the governors to ask what is really going on? I would argue there has been a dignified silence from the school on this issue as the education and welfare of the pupils is of paramount importance to them and a lot of hard work has been going on behind the scenes to resolve these issues. Is there an argument that the unions have gone down this path with an agenda other than that set out in the recent press articles? This situation seems to be turning more away from the discipline issue, (point of fact, the school's discipline record has been as excellent as it's GCSE attainment) to personal attacks on the Head and her management style. Knowing the commitment of a number of governors at Vale, they will support every member of the school to carry on making it a success and that is how it will be judged in the future, not by fancy buildings but by the quality of young people coming out of it's doors ready to take up the difficult task of being an adult. Which some adult's in this situation seem to be struggling with themselves. Rather than using headlines to put forward a blinkered, back in my day point of view I would suggest that the people who are quick to condemn this school take the time and effort to get to know it properly. A tiny flea can cause a lot of discomfort. Old_Vale_Boy

11:37am Wed 6 Apr 11

Flee says...

My wife is a teacher at this school, and I think most people aren't getting this....yes some of the kids are badly behaved. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the lack of support received from management, the head in particular, when trying to discipline the bad behaviour. How are the teachers supposed to keep control if they are constantly overruled.

I can also tell you, the day after this story 1st came to light, the head got all the staff in a room, and lambasted them all because someone had leaked the story, breaking one of the main rules of teaching.....don't punish a whole group because of the actions of 1, and it further highlighted the heads total lack of support, thus making everyone more determined to strike
My wife is a teacher at this school, and I think most people aren't getting this....yes some of the kids are badly behaved. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the lack of support received from management, the head in particular, when trying to discipline the bad behaviour. How are the teachers supposed to keep control if they are constantly overruled. I can also tell you, the day after this story 1st came to light, the head got all the staff in a room, and lambasted them all because someone had leaked the story, breaking one of the main rules of teaching.....don't punish a whole group because of the actions of 1, and it further highlighted the heads total lack of support, thus making everyone more determined to strike Flee

7:00pm Wed 6 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

from Flee
.
"...one of the main rules of teaching.....don't punish a whole group because of the actions of 1..."
.
This rule is new in the book, then? Darwen Vale's head is not the first in recent times to break it.
.
There are other rules which have been broken by heads and others in authority. An award for unfairness and another for incompetence in grammar, spelling and punctuation got to Accrington Academy. Strictly, some of the activities deserving the first award arise from a period when the organisation was known by another name but under the direction of the same head. Please ask for the dull details, for I can hardly bear to read them.
from Flee . "...one of the main rules of teaching.....don't punish a whole group because of the actions of 1..." . This rule is new in the book, then? Darwen Vale's head is not the first in recent times to break it. . There are other rules which have been broken by heads and others in authority. An award for unfairness and another for incompetence in grammar, spelling and punctuation got to Accrington Academy. Strictly, some of the activities deserving the first award arise from a period when the organisation was known by another name but under the direction of the same head. Please ask for the dull details, for I can hardly bear to read them. Graham Hartley

7:17pm Wed 6 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

More on heads, whilst I fancy that I have the patient attention of one or two of you - in an affair which was unfortunate for local popery, the head of a catholic secondary school left rather than face an investigation of claims that she bullied the staff.
More on heads, whilst I fancy that I have the patient attention of one or two of you - in an affair which was unfortunate for local popery, the head of a catholic secondary school left rather than face an investigation of claims that she bullied the staff. Graham Hartley

8:24pm Wed 6 Apr 11

Mary Queen of Spots says...

Hey Graham you said got to instead of go to I think haha! You are a clever type but sometimes you get it wrong.
Hey Graham you said got to instead of go to I think haha! You are a clever type but sometimes you get it wrong. Mary Queen of Spots

9:08pm Wed 6 Apr 11

Graham Hartley says...

Mary Queen of Spots wrote:
Hey Graham you said got to instead of go to I think haha! You are a clever type but sometimes you get it wrong.
Mary, the occasional slip reinforces the occasionally-useful notion that I'm human. Thanks.
[quote][p][bold]Mary Queen of Spots[/bold] wrote: Hey Graham you said got to instead of go to I think haha! You are a clever type but sometimes you get it wrong.[/p][/quote]Mary, the occasional slip reinforces the occasionally-useful notion that I'm human. Thanks. Graham Hartley

9:45am Thu 7 Apr 11

teachit says...

Dai Darwen wrote:
MJT wrote: I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".
On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline.
Dai Darwen you are obviously not a teacher! We are called teachers for a reason- to teach and educate children. We are not child-minders or punch-bags! Any one who thinks that teachers have an easy life should spend 1-4 years training and give it a go. We should not have to spend our time disciplining the pupils. If the minority were taught how to behave from a young age (from their parents/carers) then the schools around the UK would not have to worry about strike action.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Darwen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MJT[/bold] wrote: I am behind the teachers all the way on this one. Whilst it could be a result of poor management in the school, the point is that teachers have to put up with more on a daily basis than most other workers do in a month. People often say to me that they dread having to make presentations at work. Now imagine having to make about four or five a day, to an audience that will swear at you, possibly threaten physical violence, and will do anything to ensure that your presentation doesn't run smoothly. Teenagers (not all of them, granted, but a significant number) tend to be very difficult to deal with anyway. This is a biological and social fact. Schools have had corporal punishment for centuries precisely because of this. It is the adults, not the kids, who need to be in control. Funny how societal values broke down at more or less exactly the same time as people started to say "you can't smack children".[/p][/quote]On the point of the teachers, I agree they should not have to put up with inappropriate behaviour and language. I do think though that if a teacher cannot control a class they are in the wrong vocation. Why do all the etachers have to strike ? Is it every class that they cannot control ? However I do agree with you completely on the corporal punishment statement. Not only have the values broken down they are in freefall and with all the goody goodies there is no way back. As for the parents, well that is another matter, probably the first generation of untouchables resulting from the lack of discipline.[/p][/quote]Dai Darwen you are obviously not a teacher! We are called teachers for a reason- to teach and educate children. We are not child-minders or punch-bags! Any one who thinks that teachers have an easy life should spend 1-4 years training and give it a go. We should not have to spend our time disciplining the pupils. If the minority were taught how to behave from a young age (from their parents/carers) then the schools around the UK would not have to worry about strike action. teachit

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree