Shock £273m toll of East Lancashire alcohol abuse (From Lancashire Telegraph)

How much lager could you buy with that ?

A couple of things missing from the article.
If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes?
If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink?
If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes?
This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

garbage, everything to blame except medication and medication, so have more medication.....

drink italian beer keep off the flouridated british brewed beers...

BuckoThe Moose or should it be ostritch?

BuckoTheMoose wrote:
A couple of things missing from the article.
If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes?
If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink?
If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes?
This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

What, so just because you've drunk enough to pay enough alcohol duty to cover your victim's hospital fees it's OK?

BuckoTheMoose wrote:
A couple of things missing from the article.
If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes?
If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink?
If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes?
This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

Or the legalise cannabis campaign.

£43 million for Chorley alone in a year to mop up the mess from booze. Just little Chorley. Amazing.

"A spokesman for Lancashire Police said: “Alcohol related incidents can range from minor public order and criminal damage offences through to serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults."

Say cannabis were legalised, how many of those incidents related with alcohol would you see from weed?

Minor public order and criminals damage? You don't see many pot heads smashing things up, or even hassling people. You don't see any in fact. Drinkers are on every street doing that, but pot heads never are.

Serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults? You definitely don't get that with weed, the opposite in fact. Cannabis promotes calmness, not recklessness like booze.

There was a story last week from South Wales about a former alcoholic who was forever bothering people and ending up in court, but he'd changed to cannabis 10 years ago and since then hasn't bothered a soul. The police persecute him now though, raiding his house every years without fail to steal his stash and give him grief.

What do the police want? Alcoholics giving them constant grief and costing us a fortune, or placid pot heads who are otherwise perfect neighbours and citizens?

If we legalised weed, then for every costly alcoholic who turned to cannabis, you'd have someone no longer costing society a fortune. If we legalised weed, and the whole of Chorley turned to the drug, then the town would save precisely £43 million every single year.

Food for thought eh.

Time for alcohol to have some healthy competition surely, if only to save us billions as a country.

happycyclist wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote: A couple of things missing from the article. If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes? If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink? If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes? This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

What, so just because you've drunk enough to pay enough alcohol duty to cover your victim's hospital fees it's OK?

You misunderstand me.
I was talking about alcohol duty and NI offsetting costs for 'alcohol related ilnesses'.
As for alcohol related violence I was saying the courts need to come down hard rather than slapping wrists.

Noiticer wrote:
BuckoThe Moose or should it be ostritch?

Why?

Jack Herer wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote: A couple of things missing from the article. If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes? If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink? If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes? This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

Or the legalise cannabis campaign. £43 million for Chorley alone in a year to mop up the mess from booze. Just little Chorley. Amazing. "A spokesman for Lancashire Police said: “Alcohol related incidents can range from minor public order and criminal damage offences through to serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults." Say cannabis were legalised, how many of those incidents related with alcohol would you see from weed? Minor public order and criminals damage? You don't see many pot heads smashing things up, or even hassling people. You don't see any in fact. Drinkers are on every street doing that, but pot heads never are. Serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults? You definitely don't get that with weed, the opposite in fact. Cannabis promotes calmness, not recklessness like booze. There was a story last week from South Wales about a former alcoholic who was forever bothering people and ending up in court, but he'd changed to cannabis 10 years ago and since then hasn't bothered a soul. The police persecute him now though, raiding his house every years without fail to steal his stash and give him grief. What do the police want? Alcoholics giving them constant grief and costing us a fortune, or placid pot heads who are otherwise perfect neighbours and citizens? If we legalised weed, then for every costly alcoholic who turned to cannabis, you'd have someone no longer costing society a fortune. If we legalised weed, and the whole of Chorley turned to the drug, then the town would save precisely £43 million every single year. Food for thought eh. Time for alcohol to have some healthy competition surely, if only to save us billions as a country.

I agree that canabis should be legalised, however that won't see the end of articles like this one.
Have you not seen the articles that talk about a hideously over inflated cost to society from smoking?

Cost to society, cost to NHS etc, all have to be trumped up to ridiculous proportions in order to keep the temperance industry and the tobacco control industry in well paid, taxpayer funded jobs.

I f we legalise canabis, something no politicians would have the guts or foresight to do, we will soon have new pressure groups to join ASH and Alcohol Concern et al sponging off the taxpayer in a righteous effort to save us from ourselves.

BuckoTheMoose wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote: A couple of things missing from the article. If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes? If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink? If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes? This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

Or the legalise cannabis campaign. £43 million for Chorley alone in a year to mop up the mess from booze. Just little Chorley. Amazing. "A spokesman for Lancashire Police said: “Alcohol related incidents can range from minor public order and criminal damage offences through to serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults." Say cannabis were legalised, how many of those incidents related with alcohol would you see from weed? Minor public order and criminals damage? You don't see many pot heads smashing things up, or even hassling people. You don't see any in fact. Drinkers are on every street doing that, but pot heads never are. Serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults? You definitely don't get that with weed, the opposite in fact. Cannabis promotes calmness, not recklessness like booze. There was a story last week from South Wales about a former alcoholic who was forever bothering people and ending up in court, but he'd changed to cannabis 10 years ago and since then hasn't bothered a soul. The police persecute him now though, raiding his house every years without fail to steal his stash and give him grief. What do the police want? Alcoholics giving them constant grief and costing us a fortune, or placid pot heads who are otherwise perfect neighbours and citizens? If we legalised weed, then for every costly alcoholic who turned to cannabis, you'd have someone no longer costing society a fortune. If we legalised weed, and the whole of Chorley turned to the drug, then the town would save precisely £43 million every single year. Food for thought eh. Time for alcohol to have some healthy competition surely, if only to save us billions as a country.

I agree that canabis should be legalised, however that won't see the end of articles like this one.
Have you not seen the articles that talk about a hideously over inflated cost to society from smoking?

Cost to society, cost to NHS etc, all have to be trumped up to ridiculous proportions in order to keep the temperance industry and the tobacco control industry in well paid, taxpayer funded jobs.

I f we legalise canabis, something no politicians would have the guts or foresight to do, we will soon have new pressure groups to join ASH and Alcohol Concern et al sponging off the taxpayer in a righteous effort to save us from ourselves.

I'm not sure what you are saying; are we supposed to just ignore the problems caused by alcohol, because looking at them means we are part of some "temperance industry"? Surely we need to quantify those problems so we can face them as a society, even realise how big the problem actually is.

It's no good sweeping this under the carpet, we need to face facts, and if that means realising that our legally sanctioned drugs are actually two of the worst around, that's just tough. The alternative, burying our head in the sand, isn't going to help anyone, certainly not society.

I'd much rather have a pressure group against a legalised cannabis, than the current criminally controlled illegal scenario, which is the worst case for society in every respect. If the pressure groups are actually telling the truth, then they shouldn't be ignored or derided surely, regardless of what they are complaining about.

Or we could just look at why people need drink or drugs.

Drink and drugs are escapism from a reality that sucks. At one end it's light social indulgence that does nobody any harm, but at the other end it's harmful and destructive for users and society.

Poverty, pressure of work, pressure of having no work, lack of hope, disillusionment with society, crime, antisocial behaviour, relationship breakdowns, rejection, loss, are all understandable reasons for the sort of solace found in the bottom of a bottle or at the end of a spliff. And until these things are understood and addressed with more understanding, then people will look for an easy escape in whatever drug suits them -whatever the legality.

Jack Herer wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote: A couple of things missing from the article. If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes? If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink? If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes? This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

Or the legalise cannabis campaign. £43 million for Chorley alone in a year to mop up the mess from booze. Just little Chorley. Amazing. "A spokesman for Lancashire Police said: “Alcohol related incidents can range from minor public order and criminal damage offences through to serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults." Say cannabis were legalised, how many of those incidents related with alcohol would you see from weed? Minor public order and criminals damage? You don't see many pot heads smashing things up, or even hassling people. You don't see any in fact. Drinkers are on every street doing that, but pot heads never are. Serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults? You definitely don't get that with weed, the opposite in fact. Cannabis promotes calmness, not recklessness like booze. There was a story last week from South Wales about a former alcoholic who was forever bothering people and ending up in court, but he'd changed to cannabis 10 years ago and since then hasn't bothered a soul. The police persecute him now though, raiding his house every years without fail to steal his stash and give him grief. What do the police want? Alcoholics giving them constant grief and costing us a fortune, or placid pot heads who are otherwise perfect neighbours and citizens? If we legalised weed, then for every costly alcoholic who turned to cannabis, you'd have someone no longer costing society a fortune. If we legalised weed, and the whole of Chorley turned to the drug, then the town would save precisely £43 million every single year. Food for thought eh. Time for alcohol to have some healthy competition surely, if only to save us billions as a country.

I agree that canabis should be legalised, however that won't see the end of articles like this one. Have you not seen the articles that talk about a hideously over inflated cost to society from smoking? Cost to society, cost to NHS etc, all have to be trumped up to ridiculous proportions in order to keep the temperance industry and the tobacco control industry in well paid, taxpayer funded jobs. I f we legalise canabis, something no politicians would have the guts or foresight to do, we will soon have new pressure groups to join ASH and Alcohol Concern et al sponging off the taxpayer in a righteous effort to save us from ourselves.

I'm not sure what you are saying; are we supposed to just ignore the problems caused by alcohol, because looking at them means we are part of some "temperance industry"? Surely we need to quantify those problems so we can face them as a society, even realise how big the problem actually is. It's no good sweeping this under the carpet, we need to face facts, and if that means realising that our legally sanctioned drugs are actually two of the worst around, that's just tough. The alternative, burying our head in the sand, isn't going to help anyone, certainly not society. I'd much rather have a pressure group against a legalised cannabis, than the current criminally controlled illegal scenario, which is the worst case for society in every respect. If the pressure groups are actually telling the truth, then they shouldn't be ignored or derided surely, regardless of what they are complaining about.

Your last sentance is the whole point. The pressure groups are not telling the truth. Tobacco and alcohol control is a huge industry that wastes millions of taxpayers cash. For example, Smokefree Sout West recently spent £460,000 on billboards promoting plain packaging for fags. This is taxpaer money and is not supposed to be used to lobby government.
It's about control and money, it's never been about health.

You talk about facing these problems as a society but what that really means is taking away peoples freedom to choose. If a person harms themselves through smoking or drinking then so be it. They pay their NI and they pay heavy taxes for doing the things they enjoy.
Where a person harms another, say through alcohol related violence, then there are laws in place to deal with it. The police and courts just need to use those laws rather than **** footing.

The article talks about things like time lost from work due to hangovers. Tobacco control have a similar thing about time lost to smoking breaks. Things like these are issues for individual companies and employees to work out, not reasons for more general controls over alcohol and tobacco.

The control industry use these jumped up arguements so they can propose stiffer restrictions.

Alcohol control is now going the same way as tobacco control. It won't be long before booze costs three times what it does now and comes in plain packaging. How romantic will it be when you're sharing a bottle of wine with the Mrs and there is a picture of a diseased liver on it?

happycyclist wrote:
Or we could just look at why people need drink or drugs.

Drink and drugs are escapism from a reality that sucks. At one end it's light social indulgence that does nobody any harm, but at the other end it's harmful and destructive for users and society.

Poverty, pressure of work, pressure of having no work, lack of hope, disillusionment with society, crime, antisocial behaviour, relationship breakdowns, rejection, loss, are all understandable reasons for the sort of solace found in the bottom of a bottle or at the end of a spliff. And until these things are understood and addressed with more understanding, then people will look for an easy escape in whatever drug suits them -whatever the legality.

How about they just want to have fun? It doesn't have to be about escaping anything, what about just enjoying something.

I wonder how much these surveys cost? Who edits the report to show the worst case scenario? I have strong suspicions we are being duped somewhat by several interested parties. I wonder how much it is going to cost the NHS in treating the depression reports like this cause, perhaps people drink to blot out the reality of the impoverished conditions.

A pot head having fun.........

Never heard of such a thing happening and to find one laughing is a joke in itself, more like sat in the corner stinking and staring into space with a vacent expression, all the lights are on but no-ones home!
Stay away from it!
Just read an article on sky news about the Miami face eater who was trying to give up cannabis, must have thought he was a comodo dragon!

Jack Herer wrote:

BuckoTheMoose wrote:
A couple of things missing from the article.
If we're going to break it down into a merely financial impact, how much money is taken in alcohol taxes?
If we're talking about costs to the NHS, how much is taken in taxes and how much in National Insurance from people who drink?
If we're looking at alcohol related crime, why do judges let people off with a slapped wrist and why has being drunk almost become an excuse for crimes?
This sounds like another advert on behalf of the temperance lobby.

Or the legalise cannabis campaign.

£43 million for Chorley alone in a year to mop up the mess from booze. Just little Chorley. Amazing.

"A spokesman for Lancashire Police said: “Alcohol related incidents can range from minor public order and criminal damage offences through to serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults."

Say cannabis were legalised, how many of those incidents related with alcohol would you see from weed?

Minor public order and criminals damage? You don't see many pot heads smashing things up, or even hassling people. You don't see any in fact. Drinkers are on every street doing that, but pot heads never are.

Serious assaults, domestic violence and even sexual assaults? You definitely don't get that with weed, the opposite in fact. Cannabis promotes calmness, not recklessness like booze.

There was a story last week from South Wales about a former alcoholic who was forever bothering people and ending up in court, but he'd changed to cannabis 10 years ago and since then hasn't bothered a soul. The police persecute him now though, raiding his house every years without fail to steal his stash and give him grief.

What do the police want? Alcoholics giving them constant grief and costing us a fortune, or placid pot heads who are otherwise perfect neighbours and citizens?

If we legalised weed, then for every costly alcoholic who turned to cannabis, you'd have someone no longer costing society a fortune. If we legalised weed, and the whole of Chorley turned to the drug, then the town would save precisely £43 million every single year.

Food for thought eh.

Time for alcohol to have some healthy competition surely, if only to save us billions as a country.

Anti beer bore, cannabis is a killer, hello its me, KDG I was banned for my views on lizards, anyway Mr herer, what about the miami face eater, sounds like he got bonged out of his screaming burning skull and then ate someones face off like a rabid dog. Good stuff this cannabis isn't it? It may not kill you directly, but it will turn you directly into a killer or lizard that sucks peoples faces off. Nice.
I'll stick to some beers thanks. Google it, Miami face eater, you will find he was a skunk weed zombie lizard as described by his girlfriend.
I warned you it turns people into lizards and oh how you all laughed. Yet here he is, the guy who thought he was an alligator. Proper bonging monging material, I'm supprised his girlfriend didn't lay eggs.

Tripe by the anti alcohol group of whingers.

The seems to be a trend 99% of crimes, anti social behavour and violence is caused by people who have had there alcohol in the pub.
You very rarely hear of people having a few drinks in the house causing trouble.
The answer is make the pub landlords pay for all of the town centre problems even if it runs into millions.