Scum comment East Lancs magistrate restored as bench chairman (From Lancashire Telegraph)
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Scum comment East Lancs magistrate restored as bench chairman
8:30am Thursday 3rd June 2010 in News
BACK: Austin Molloy
THE Blackburn magistrate who was suspended after calling two yobs ‘absolute scum’ has won his job back.
Austin Molloy’s treatment sparked outrage with more than 600 comments on the Lancashire Telegraph website.
And in the Lancashire Telegraph’s online poll, 95 per cent of the 4,000 people who voted said he was right to tell the two teens who desecrated Blackburn Cathedral that ‘normal people would consider you absolute scum’.
But now campaigners are hailing a ‘victory for common sense’ after he was given the go-ahead to take back his place a chair of the bench.
It also believed that he had received an apology.
Friends said he 'would continue to speak from the heart' in court.
Incorrect reports claimed last week that Mr Molloy had been reinstated.
In fact the decision was only made this week.
But, while he has now been allowed to sit as chairman again, an investigation is still ongoing into his conduct by the local magistrates advisory committee.
However, this is understood to involve his public comments on the issue rather than his conduct in court.
Mr Molloy appeared on GMTV among other national media to defend his actions.
A source close to Mr Molloy, a 57-year-old engineering company director from Darwen, said: “He is now back sitting as a chairman of the bench and he feels as if he did nothing wrong.
“He will continue to speak from the heart in the same way that he has for 18 years as a magistrate.”
Mr Molloy’s lawyers have now written to the advisory committee to offer his version of events after the confrontation in Blackburn Magistrates' Court on May 13.
The magistrate made the remark while sentencing two boys who vandalised an artefact and wrote graffiti in the cathedral.
Court clerk Christine Dean challenged his 'inappropriate language' in court, and Mr Molloy was later relieved of his duties as chairman of the bench after an investigation was launched.
It is understood that Mr Molloy has now been given an apology.
Last night the decision was backed by the father of one of the boys Mr Molloy labelled scum.
The man, who cannot be named, said: "I am glad he has his job back, and I would say to him 'carry on with the good work'.
"I didn't think he should have been suspended in the first place."
Darwen MP Jake Berry said: "This is a victory of common sense over political correctness.
"I had written to Ken Clarke, the Justice Secretary, about Mr Molloy's case so I am pleased that common sense has prevailed.
"We have to remember that magistrates are doing a job for society and they should be protected and valued."
Blackburn businesswoman Margo Grimshaw said: "I am very glad Mr Molloy has his job back, and I think we need more people like him.
"It always seemed like political correctness gone mad."
Fellow Blackburn magistrate Zar Hussain said he was 'happy to see Austin back' after a testing couple of weeks at the courthouse.
He said: "I personally support him and I don't think he said anything other than what we all have felt at some point, but maybe with hindsight he should have kept his thoughts to himself.
"Maybe he wouldn't have said it if he felt it would cause this many issues. As a magsitrate you've got to be careful about what you say."
Comments(151)
burner
says...
8:49am Thu 3 Jun 10
chris283
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9:56am Thu 3 Jun 10
Slimplynth
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10:22am Thu 3 Jun 10
*
Zar, I think you've missed the point; the vast majority of 4000 voters can't be ignored. What he said was completely normal and acceptable (to the vast majority.)
time.team
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10:26am Thu 3 Jun 10
-
About time and should never have come to this. How about an apology by Christine Dean for making such a fuss about something so trivial. If she wants to complain about something constructive then could I suggest she has a walk around Blackburn sometime with her eyes open. How about complaining about the short sentences that are always given to drug dealers in this town for instance? That would be sensible and of worth.
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Christine Dean - So easy to make something out of nothing!
Tetley Drinker
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10:43am Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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10:52am Thu 3 Jun 10
I would hazard a guess that the matters being investigated regarding public comment are more serious than what he said in court.
Sensationalising and trying hard to justify his comments Mr Molloy stated on TV that comments had been wrote in a bible. What was written in was a visitors comments / prayer request book in the catherdral for any visitor to write in albeit the comment they wrote were unpleasant, they did not desecrate a bible. The cannon can verify this. The man should not have been discussing the details of the case in the press or on TV and certainly should not have exaggerated and falsely claimed that it was a bible that had been written in. Also the press have continuously used the term prayer book which gives the impression of a hymn book or bible.
This case would not have been turned into this saga if Mr Molloy and the press had not made misleading untrue statements.
jaffa92
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11:06am Thu 3 Jun 10
notac
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11:08am Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:I think you've had too many Tetleys - the comment should probably have not been made by a magistrate but how can you not agree that the sentiment is not correct given the action performed by these "scum" and that any one should not be able to express it whether it is referring to children or not???
It is disgusting that hes been restored. How would you feel if someone referred to your kids in this way?
This is exactly the type PC nanny state attitude that gets us where we are today.
A Darener
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11:09am Thu 3 Jun 10
chris283 wrote:Criminals don't deserve any respect! They are a blot on society. Nobody needs to break the law, so if they do they deserve everything they get including being called "scum". Dictionary definition, "a vile person". Fully justifying that description.
Ms Dean stick at your job you did right he should not have said it and to be given his job back is a farce ,he should have know better then to say it but he wont get respect of the criminals ,I am surprised and to give him a appoligy haha
As for Ms Dean I hope she has apologised personally to Mr Molloy and the court for her outburst at the hearing, and will in future engage brain before speaking out.
notac
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11:10am Thu 3 Jun 10
Sorry
A Darener
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11:12am Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:If I had a child that behaved in the way these two lads behaved then I would realise I had failed as a parent and would be in full agreement with anybody that called them "scum". Just like one of the boy's father was.
It is disgusting that hes been restored. How would you feel if someone referred to your kids in this way?
chris283
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11:19am Thu 3 Jun 10
milano
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11:34am Thu 3 Jun 10
milano
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11:35am Thu 3 Jun 10
milano
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11:38am Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:Lets see what the investigation uncovers and if Mr Molloy has broke rules or even any laws then he should be prepared to take the consequences
I would also like to point out that in his comments in court Mr Molloy appointed himslf speaker for all 'normal people'. The cannon and congregation are 'normal people' and certainly don't hold the views Mr Molloy attributed to them. He also spoke of a breach of trust. This man has broke a breach of trust in his interviews, let down fellow JP's and breached magistrates codes of conducts/ rules and guidelines. A man of integrity who deserves to be praised and put on a pedestal as ambassador for all 'normal people'? I think not
john the boss
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11:53am Thu 3 Jun 10
no chris 283, its called bring your children up the right way,there to many pc arses like you in this country .thats why this counrty has gone to the dogs ,
A Darener
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11:55am Thu 3 Jun 10
woodyads
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11:55am Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:If your children had been referred to in this way, then it is obviously for good reason (as proven by one of the scumbag's fathers coming out in support of Mr Molloy...) so I think you would feel ashamed and as though you had failed as a parent maybe, and that you should take a long hard look at your own parenting skills?
It is disgusting that hes been restored. How would you feel if someone referred to your kids in this way?
CapitaBackHander
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11:56am Thu 3 Jun 10
Darwenian
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12:35pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Thank God common sense has largely prevailed!
chris283
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12:37pm Thu 3 Jun 10
milano
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12:49pm Thu 3 Jun 10
chris283 wrote:Quite right. As Jaffa as posted earlier it is no longer just about hi comment in court.
Its people like you who would bring hangin back the kids he called scum were church goers ,I hope the mother does take action against him .He shouldnt have said it end of story the kids have respectable law abiding parents so how do you account for that your nose is so far in the air haha
useyourhead
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12:58pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:if mine ever did something like this i would refer to them as scum myself, but only in public. what i would call them in private could not be printed, and they would be out there scrubbing off not only what they had done, but a few more in town for good measure.
It is disgusting that hes been restored. How would you feel if someone referred to your kids in this way?
bravo for common sense, may this be the dawn of change where the p.c nutters are concerned.
Tetley Drinker
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1:09pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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1:21pm Thu 3 Jun 10
These Children did not do anything bad. Neither did Christine Dean.
jaffa92
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1:22pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Darwenian wrote:Given some of the things i've heard lately Mr Molloy does not command a great deal of repect from all fellow jp's or others within the court system
As a magistrate of some 18 years' standing, presumably Mr Molloy commands a great deal of respect from his magisterial colleagus, and others, within the courts system. Why, then, was he lambasted in the way he has been for such a relatively minor transgression? Yes, his words may have been unprofessional, and deserving of a reprimand, but surely there is no justification for the vitriol and vilification to which he has been subjected. As for those posters, on this thread and others, who appear to think that "family must come first", whatever they may have done - they are the ones deserving of contempt, not Mr Molloy. Thank God common sense has largely prevailed!
He was not lambasted he quite rightly told that his comment were out of place in the courtroom. Nor has he been ubject to vitriol and vilification that has been heaped upon the two boys and their parents. Mr Molloy chose to wallow in the limelight and through his own interviews in the pres and on TV kept this saga running and exaggerating facts. As said prior let's see what the investigation uncovers.
useyourhead
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1:28pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:perfect demonstration of your intellect tetley, well done.
OK. But what if there were mitigating circumstances such as the boys are satanists or, even worse, dingles ;-)
Ken Shuffles
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1:35pm Thu 3 Jun 10
People should be speaking up for these Children and the Bishop should be speaking out to reject the Magistrates smears against them.
Darwenian
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1:36pm Thu 3 Jun 10
On second reading, perhaps I should have taken more care - I was really referring to the criticism, much of it, IMHO, totally misguided, that he's been subjected to on this thread.
Anyway, are you now trying to tell us that the poor little, misunderstood, and, no doubt, "traumatised", mites didn't deserve the padding that they've received? If so, I'd gues that you're of a small, perhaps even tiny, minority.
Darwenian
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1:39pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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1:51pm Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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1:55pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Darwenian wrote:I am not saying that I think these boys are misunderstood or traumatised. Nor are these boys or their parents claiming that either. I am saying the boys were rightly punished for what they did and that the parents have not condoned their behaviour in any way shape or form. As I have said in earlier post Mr Molloy and the press have grossly exaggerated the offences and he is wrong to have done so on national TV. Mr Molloy is entitled to his own personal views as is everyone he is not entitled to air them publically whilst speaking in his capacity as a magistrate. Read my earlier post and you may understand my point.
Jaffa 92: Nor has he been subject to vitriol and vilification that has been heaped upon the two boys and their parents. On second reading, perhaps I should have taken more care - I was really referring to the criticism, much of it, IMHO, totally misguided, that he's been subjected to on this thread. Anyway, are you now trying to tell us that the poor little, misunderstood, and, no doubt, "traumatised", mites didn't deserve the padding that they've received? If so, I'd gues that you're of a small, perhaps even tiny, minority.
Ken Shuffles
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1:58pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker
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2:00pm Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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2:02pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:If Margo Grimshaw has a good relationship with the catherdral then perhaps she could have a word with the cannon to etablish some facts before spouting on something she knows nothing about. The cannon can verify that the reported so called fact of this cae are grossly exaggerated and indeed that the cannon himself did want the boys to go to court. And for the record the father of the one the boys did not agree that his son was scum.
Margo will be on telly soon. She has dreams about being a Magistrate. After all, She thinks she is born to dispense and often likes to vent her feral hatred of the young that made her a property millionairess when she was dispensing other things without her top on. She loves Property while exploiting people for cash and has a good relationship with the cathedral so i reckon she probably has a good chance.
Ken Shuffles
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2:11pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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2:21pm Thu 3 Jun 10
thebburnman
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2:23pm Thu 3 Jun 10
What a buffon this man is, pea cocking himself around the tabloids. Jack Straw and Jake Berry (MP's) should delve a little deeper into Mr Molloys character before jumping on the political bandwagon. His sentiments were right, his actions not. Yes there is a society problem. By making these comments would he go any way to resolving any of them? No, not one iota of a difference. Its easy to sympathise with him when the general public do not have the information to hand on correct court conduct. We are not caped crusaders, we are also, in particularly not political. I for one do not want to be sat with him in court again. I'm not having a loud mouth representing my opinions on a case and expressing them how he chooses.
Ken Shuffles
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2:26pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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2:32pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker
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2:40pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Slimplynth
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3:05pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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3:07pm Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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3:28pm Thu 3 Jun 10
thebburnman wrote:At last someone who actually knows Mr Molloy willing to speak the truth.
Mr Molloy will continue to speak from the heart? Its his head we should be worried about. Infamy Infamy, they've all got it in for me! What a buffon this man is, pea cocking himself around the tabloids. Jack Straw and Jake Berry (MP's) should delve a little deeper into Mr Molloys character before jumping on the political bandwagon. His sentiments were right, his actions not. Yes there is a society problem. By making these comments would he go any way to resolving any of them? No, not one iota of a difference. Its easy to sympathise with him when the general public do not have the information to hand on correct court conduct. We are not caped crusaders, we are also, in particularly not political. I for one do not want to be sat with him in court again. I'm not having a loud mouth representing my opinions on a case and expressing them how he chooses.
As you say bburnman, let the MP's, Darwen Mayor and BwDB councillors who have jumped on the bandwagon delve a little deeper into his character and also his behaviour and comments following his reprimand in court by Christine Dean.
This man has blatantly grossly exaggerated the offences, details of which he should not have been discussing outside of court. By doing so he has stirred up misguided and misinformed comments levelled at these boys and their parents, He has proved himself to be arrogant, untrustworthy & obnoxious with no respect for fellow JP's or the court system. Something, I am led to believe, fellow JP's and other involved in the court system also believe to be true. Is not fit to continue as a magistrate? I hope that the ongoing investigation proves he is not.
susan banks
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3:33pm Thu 3 Jun 10
susan banks
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3:40pm Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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3:40pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Slimplynth wrote:It is you that is missing the point. No-one has said that their actions should have been excused. If everyone who ever broke the law was to be classed as absolute scum then that would apply to a lot of the population but that is not the issue here, it's whether as a magistrate he conducted himself in a proper manner both in court when he was reprimanded and afterward in interviews. If there was no doubt that Mr Molloy was right and conducted himself in a proper manner there would be no need for an investigation. Obviously the ourt system thinks differently.
I think people read too much into things, perhaps hearing themselves being labelled as scum will make them think twice about how they behave in the future. What would they have learned if they were just hearing their actions excused for any number of reasons? 16 years of age; they are young adults, not children.
burner
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3:41pm Thu 3 Jun 10
jaffa92
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3:55pm Thu 3 Jun 10
susan banks wrote:Our forefathers also fought for justice. I have sympathy with you Susan and I truly hope that your family member gets a fair trial and justice is served. I wish your family well in your endeavour to clear their name.
When you have a memeber of your family that's been framed for a crime they did not commit, and he and his family are living a daily nightmare and will do for next few nmonths, and also faces a jail sentence,and the person who did do this crime is walking free because he quoted " No Comment ", then you should and would have something to complain about
I have got to ask though Susan if your relative was being branded absolute scum and his or her parents being slagged off by people jumping on the don't know the facts but hey let's all bleet bandwagon - would you expect some support?
jaffa92
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4:03pm Thu 3 Jun 10
burner wrote:They didn't spray paint anything you muppet. They wrote some comments in a comment book. Albeit not very nice comments but they didn't vandalise or graffitti the cathedral nor write in any bible or hymn book.
Ken Shuffles - " These children didn't do anything bad. " Are you absolutely MAD or blind or what . . ? I bet you wouldn't be calling them " children " if they spray-painted your house !!
past it
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5:05pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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5:21pm Thu 3 Jun 10
They didn't spray paint anyones house. They didn't vandalise anyones dwelling. They didn't hurt anyone or rob anyone of anything and there is no evidence that any person was caused any suffering as a result of this incident.
These two Teenage People are the victims of absolute and criminal abuse dispensed on that day by Mr Molloy as witnessed and documented. He was Abusive and Insulting to the young people concerned as is clearly evidenced.
The Young are not to be Abused, either by Magistrates or Priests and He Abused them in a Court of Law.
Will He be arrested for his crime in a Court of Law. ? I for one hope so.
burner
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5:49pm Thu 3 Jun 10
burner
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6:35pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Mo Lestor
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6:51pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:I'd be really ashamed that they had to appear before a Magistrate in the first place.
It is disgusting that hes been restored. How would you feel if someone referred to your kids in this way?
Then once he had dished out his sentence I would mkae them write a letter of apology to the church and ground them for a while.
.
May be your standards are a little lower than everyone elses?
.
Good to see common sense has prevailed!
Mo Lestor
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6:52pm Thu 3 Jun 10
chris283 wrote:Moron!
Ms Dean stick at your job you did right he should not have said it and to be given his job back is a farce ,he should have know better then to say it but he wont get respect of the criminals ,I am surprised and to give him a appoligy haha
Mo Lestor
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6:55pm Thu 3 Jun 10
john the boss wrote:Well said!
Excuse me Darwener wat u a another dogooder no chris 283, its called bring your children up the right way,there to many pc arses like you in this country .thats why this counrty has gone to the dogs ,
Mo Lestor
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6:59pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker wrote:You have obviously lost the plot and the argument.
OK. But what if there were mitigating circumstances such as the boys are satanists or, even worse, dingles ;-)
.
I just wish your miserable existence would go the same way.
Mo Lestor
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7:08pm Thu 3 Jun 10
burner wrote:I'm with you Burner.
Ken Shuffles - " These children didn't do anything bad. " Are you absolutely MAD or blind or what . . ? I bet you wouldn't be calling them " children " if they spray-painted your house !!
.
Liquidise Ken Shuffles!
logie28
says...
7:46pm Thu 3 Jun 10
I think you should organise a party in your back garden this Sunday..
Go on, invite us all. Any questions we will say it was for charity.
burner
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7:47pm Thu 3 Jun 10
local chap
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8:28pm Thu 3 Jun 10
local chap
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8:28pm Thu 3 Jun 10
ste.g
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8:36pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:ken,your an atheist so why are you talking religion.leave it to those that believe.and where did you get the 95% from?where does it say this?prey tell..
95% of the People thought it acceptable that Jesus should be put to death like an absolute criminal. These children did not do anything bad and He should apologise for infering that these children should ever be considered as being absolute scum. The absolute scum and corruption is in the cathedral and it was there long before these children showed up. Mr Molloy will be a reminder of that fact on any court bench he s its in.
These Children did not do anything bad. Neither did Christine Dean.
ste.g
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8:47pm Thu 3 Jun 10
burner wrote:i have a feeling you be waiting a long time for your answer.ken talks crap and when facts are mentioned he scurrys off back to the padded room for a good rock.
My apologies, Ken. I guess I missed why they were arrested and put in a court of law. So, please, tell me ( without bias ) why were they in court? I await your post and stand by to say sorry if they were innocent.
burner
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9:08pm Thu 3 Jun 10
stealer
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11:02pm Thu 3 Jun 10
Church dogma,being a thinker !
However, the boys did wrong !
Why were they in the church, why write in the book anything which you,I or any other thinker would not ?
They did not think !
They needed to be told of their wrongdoing, else,as has already been said,they will not think in future !
watchingyou
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11:39pm Thu 3 Jun 10
thoroughbred
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1:52am Fri 4 Jun 10
parents not much better, or kids would'nt behave like that.
If i'd done that as a kid, or my kids, it would've resulted in a bloody good hiding and a long grounding.
You lot who are against Mr Molloy are obviously all 'SCUM'!!!
watchingyou
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2:27am Fri 4 Jun 10
Chris P Bacon
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8:16am Fri 4 Jun 10
watchingyou
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8:58am Fri 4 Jun 10
burner
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9:16am Fri 4 Jun 10
burner
says...
9:17am Fri 4 Jun 10
mys
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9:23am Fri 4 Jun 10
Slimplynth
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10:04am Fri 4 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:Well 95% of the poll believe he was right to have said what he did in court. Regarding the other issue, following the incident and subsequyent media involvement... well that would require a another poll... or have I missed another point!
Slimplynth wrote: I think people read too much into things, perhaps hearing themselves being labelled as scum will make them think twice about how they behave in the future. What would they have learned if they were just hearing their actions excused for any number of reasons? 16 years of age; they are young adults, not children.It is you that is missing the point. No-one has said that their actions should have been excused. If everyone who ever broke the law was to be classed as absolute scum then that would apply to a lot of the population but that is not the issue here, it's whether as a magistrate he conducted himself in a proper manner both in court when he was reprimanded and afterward in interviews. If there was no doubt that Mr Molloy was right and conducted himself in a proper manner there would be no need for an investigation. Obviously the ourt system thinks differently.
jaffa92
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10:57am Fri 4 Jun 10
Slimplynth wrote:The reason 95% of a media poll think he was right is because nobody gets the facts right when reporting. All along the media and Mr Molloy have grossly exaggerated what these boys actually did. Mr Molloy even stated on national TV that they wrote lurid comment in a bible. I am not condoning what they did but they did receive a sentence and that should be the end of the matter. Mr Molloy in his capacity as a JP i there to dispense sentences not give opinions on what he thinks 'normal' people would think. Christine Dean was doing her job correctly. The only thing Mr Molloy didn't like was the fact that someone had the bottle to stand up to him. He and the media have led people to believe the offences were a lot wore than they actually were. All along people have jumped on the media / Molloy bandwagon. The issue is not whether the description he used was apt it is about conducting himself in an appropriate manner and in accordance to proper court procedures.
jaffa92 wrote:Well 95% of the poll believe he was right to have said what he did in court. Regarding the other issue, following the incident and subsequyent media involvement... well that would require a another poll... or have I missed another point!Slimplynth wrote: I think people read too much into things, perhaps hearing themselves being labelled as scum will make them think twice about how they behave in the future. What would they have learned if they were just hearing their actions excused for any number of reasons? 16 years of age; they are young adults, not children.It is you that is missing the point. No-one has said that their actions should have been excused. If everyone who ever broke the law was to be classed as absolute scum then that would apply to a lot of the population but that is not the issue here, it's whether as a magistrate he conducted himself in a proper manner both in court when he was reprimanded and afterward in interviews. If there was no doubt that Mr Molloy was right and conducted himself in a proper manner there would be no need for an investigation. Obviously the ourt system thinks differently.
watchingyou
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11:07am Fri 4 Jun 10
jaffa92
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11:12am Fri 4 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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11:52am Fri 4 Jun 10
The caset was dealt with in a youth court. IT WAS NOT AN ADULT COURT.
They did something wrong. It does not make them absolute scum unless you are like Mr Molloy, the sort of person who spends your life waiting for an opportunity to hate and abuse someone. If that is not the case you are just a person who is, for some reason, proud to advertise your complete lack of understanding and intelligence.
Tetley Drinker
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12:03pm Fri 4 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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12:13pm Fri 4 Jun 10
Venting and spewing hatred at everything at every opportunity is a disease. The Damage they did was minor, and caused only to the inanimate. No People were harmed in this incident.
We have covered up Child Abuse in our Churches. Perhaps the time has come to stamp it out of our justice system. Molloy is a Child abuser and a bully in my opinion. Any Solicitor should refuse to have his defendents case heard in any court Mr Molloy sits in. I am considering making a citizens arrest in court.
Ken Shuffles
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12:29pm Fri 4 Jun 10
Tetley Drinker
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12:35pm Fri 4 Jun 10
useyourhead
says...
12:41pm Fri 4 Jun 10
people in glass houses ken, please get help, push the buzzer for the nurse, something, anything, please.
useyourhead
says...
12:50pm Fri 4 Jun 10
Chris P Bacon
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2:57pm Fri 4 Jun 10
burner
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3:41pm Fri 4 Jun 10
Slimplynth
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10:40am Sat 5 Jun 10
>>>
Ken, wtf are you on about? They're a perfect example of what seems to be happening with the younger generations in most towns of the country. That said their actions also reinforce the negative perceptions older generations have about young people; many of whom are salt of the earth types, helpful etc. I know a couple of teenagers who wouldn't have dreamed of carrying out this type of mindless (scummy) attack, perhaps because the lads i'm thinking of were encouraged from a young age to take part in productive activities.. cadets/sports/rock climbing...
watchingyou
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11:31am Sat 5 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
12:23pm Sat 5 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
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1:03pm Sun 6 Jun 10
If it is acceptable to regard the actions of individuals who cause no harm to anyone absolute scum then I really do wonder what term you would use to describe someone who went around hurting and abusing the feelings of others for no other reason than the hurting and abusing of others made the abuser feel as if they were right.
The Teenagers DID NOT HURT ANYONE and neither did they Abuse anyone. They wrote the wrong thing in the wrong place and bent an inanimate ornament. The only ABUSE was direct abuse came from Mr Molloy in the proceedings.
It is wrong to abuse others.
Ken Shuffles
says...
1:14pm Sun 6 Jun 10
The Church of The Inanimate it seems, may disagree.
Ken Shuffles
says...
1:17pm Sun 6 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
1:27pm Sun 6 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
1:29pm Sun 6 Jun 10
Slimplynth
says...
1:31pm Sun 6 Jun 10
The system then proceeded to drag Malloy into a position were he felt all common sense had failed, so he turned to the media. Personally, i'd birch the little buggers before the inanimate becomes more serious. It's generally accepted that places of worship should be crime free and an example should have be made of them (I'm not religious in the slightest but certain things should be respected by default).
watchingyou
says...
2:43pm Sun 6 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
2:48pm Sun 6 Jun 10
useyourhead
says...
11:24pm Sun 6 Jun 10
....to go with kens tripe
Ken Shuffles
says...
10:53am Mon 7 Jun 10
What sort of education, rehabilitation, wisdom, teaching, attention did the Bishop offer in an effort to correct their behaviour in the future ? The answer is, a big fat glutonous NOTHING! No attempt whatsoever was made by the Cathedral to have any conversation or make any effort with regard to correcting the behaviour of these boys. No wisdom or education or effort or redemption was offered. NONE!...... Why? Because The Bishop was too busy getting a Crime number so he could put in his greedy claim to the insurance company.
I was a little **** once. Get real. This is about the Abuse of Children by those who run our Courts and Churches. Molloy is just another Gluton who needs to abuse others to make himself feel decent and superior.
The Cathedral and it's Prayer Books, it's priceless sacred objects, it's dead bones, idols, beads and other inanimate things should NOT BE VENERATED.
Ken Shuffles
says...
11:03am Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
11:08am Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:Why should the Cathedral intervene? If I had been parent to these kids I would tell Christine Dean to mind her own business in court and shake the magistrates hand AND personally thank him for calling them SCUM AND those two boys would get such a hiding when they get home followed by excessive harsh long groundings for their behaviour and withdrawal of treats AND I'd sell off their playstations etc to pay for the damage as well and I'd smack dogooders who stick up for Christine Dean and criticise me as a parent for punishing them. Parents who are lily-livered and don't give a **** what their kids do and complains at anybody who challenges their children such as Austin did and don't give adequate enough deterrents to their children when they have done wrong are incompetant lazy ignorant boneidle parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simplynth - have you been on the woo-woo juice again ? When Uri Geller bends the inanimate the whole world applauds!! When the Cathedral has inanimate objects bent out of shape by two local boys they are taken to court and Abused and insulted by a fat Magistrate (Unlike mine and my neighbours rubbish, which does belong to me and my neighbour) The inanimate objects in the Cathedral do not belong to the magistrate and are not the property of any individual person. What sort of education, rehabilitation, wisdom, teaching, attention did the Bishop offer in an effort to correct their behaviour in the future ? The answer is, a big fat glutonous NOTHING! No attempt whatsoever was made by the Cathedral to have any conversation or make any effort with regard to correcting the behaviour of these boys. No wisdom or education or effort or redemption was offered. NONE!...... Why? Because The Bishop was too busy getting a Crime number so he could put in his greedy claim to the insurance company. I was a little **** once. Get real. This is about the Abuse of Children by those who run our Courts and Churches. Molloy is just another Gluton who needs to abuse others to make himself feel decent and superior. The Cathedral and it's Prayer Books, it's priceless sacred objects, it's dead bones, idols, beads and other inanimate things should NOT BE VENERATED.
!
Ken Shuffles
says...
11:14am Mon 7 Jun 10
If it is generally accepted that Churches are Abuse free in your part of town you need to speak up, wake up, and protect the children that have any connection with any of it's institutions.
AnthonyUK
says...
11:23am Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
11:25am Mon 7 Jun 10
The Cathedral did intervene. They had the boys sent to a place where they could be abused and thought nothing else would come of it.
Obviously, that total neglect of Christian Kindness, Knowledge and Love was the bishops biggest mistake.
AnthonyUK
says...
11:28am Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
11:31am Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:Really. Would expect that response from you!
Anthony, The Cathedral did intervene. They had the boys sent to a place where they could be abused and thought nothing else would come of it. Obviously, that total neglect of Christian Kindness, Knowledge and Love was the bishops biggest mistake.
Ken Shuffles
says...
11:39am Mon 7 Jun 10
If you need to shake the hand of a person who calls your own children absolute scum then you haven't learnt anything about Parental Loyalty.
What does the Bishop think about those who bend the inanimate being branded as absolute scum.? Or is he and his fellow colluders still keeping as quiet and distant as possible when it comes to even the slightest hint of Child Abuse involving the Cathedral.?
Ken Shuffles
says...
11:49am Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92
says...
12:20pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK wrote:AnthonyUK,
Ken Shuffles wrote: Simplynth - have you been on the woo-woo juice again ? When Uri Geller bends the inanimate the whole world applauds!! When the Cathedral has inanimate objects bent out of shape by two local boys they are taken to court and Abused and insulted by a fat Magistrate (Unlike mine and my neighbours rubbish, which does belong to me and my neighbour) The inanimate objects in the Cathedral do not belong to the magistrate and are not the property of any individual person. What sort of education, rehabilitation, wisdom, teaching, attention did the Bishop offer in an effort to correct their behaviour in the future ? The answer is, a big fat glutonous NOTHING! No attempt whatsoever was made by the Cathedral to have any conversation or make any effort with regard to correcting the behaviour of these boys. No wisdom or education or effort or redemption was offered. NONE!...... Why? Because The Bishop was too busy getting a Crime number so he could put in his greedy claim to the insurance company. I was a little **** once. Get real. This is about the Abuse of Children by those who run our Courts and Churches. Molloy is just another Gluton who needs to abuse others to make himself feel decent and superior. The Cathedral and it's Prayer Books, it's priceless sacred objects, it's dead bones, idols, beads and other inanimate things should NOT BE VENERATED.Why should the Cathedral intervene? If I had been parent to these kids I would tell Christine Dean to mind her own business in court and shake the magistrates hand AND personally thank him for calling them SCUM AND those two boys would get such a hiding when they get home followed by excessive harsh long groundings for their behaviour and withdrawal of treats AND I'd sell off their playstations etc to pay for the damage as well and I'd smack dogooders who stick up for Christine Dean and criticise me as a parent for punishing them. Parents who are lily-livered and don't give a **** what their kids do and complains at anybody who challenges their children such as Austin did and don't give adequate enough deterrents to their children when they have done wrong are incompetant lazy ignorant boneidle parents!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
You know nothing about the parents or punishments they gave their boys so why assume that none was given and that they are lazy, ignorant and bone-idle?
As for shaking the magistrates hand for calling them scum - would you also thank him for exaggerating the offences on national TV, then also thank everyone who then classed you and your wife as scummy parents?
As for Ken's comment with regards the catherdral intervening, I think they could have. Not in order to lessen the sentencing but to comment on the media reports exaggerating the offences. If Mr Molloy felt it necessary to have his few days of fame and was misguided enough to dicuss the case in the public arena then he should be prepared to take the conequences of any sanctions the invetigation board deem apt.
milano
says...
12:42pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Then they can ask Mr Molloy why if he felt justified in his comments did he feel the need to exaggerate the offences on TV in order to defend himself.
watchingyou
says...
12:53pm Mon 7 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
12:53pm Mon 7 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
12:53pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Slimplynth
says...
12:55pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Slimplynth wrote:Ken, you're inabilities to reason or answer reasonable questions, suggest a lacking of your mental acuity (in my eyes).
Ken, so truthfully, these lads walk past your house and knock the contents of your general waste bin over, maybe a few of your neighbours too... just because they're bored and want fun/a chase. It's ok in your eye's though because the bins and rubbish are inanimate and no-one has been hurt... so truthfully, in my hypothetical situation, you have seen the lads doing this from the comfort of your armchair... what are the first words to leave your mouth? A recent poll suggests in over 95% of people, the words would be "Little Sh!ts"... a judge saying 'scum', in my eyes is a watered down version of what Joe Public would say. The system then proceeded to drag Malloy into a position were he felt all common sense had failed, so he turned to the media. Personally, i'd birch the little buggers before the inanimate becomes more serious. It's generally accepted that places of worship should be crime free and an example should have be made of them (I'm not religious in the slightest but certain things should be respected by default).
Please point out in my previous post where I have said that Churches etc should be "abuse free".. please re read then apologise for mis-quoting me. Following your apology please also answer my question re. "What would happen if your inanimate bin was pushed over..."
*
Also, "Woo Woo Juice"... wtf, I started writing that at about 12pm; long before my first beer of the day/night. In any case, I would expect that after 10 beers people would still get more sense out of me than they would you, in your current vegetative state.
AnthonyUK
says...
1:03pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:YES I would actually!
AnthonyUK wrote:AnthonyUK, You know nothing about the parents or punishments they gave their boys so why assume that none was given and that they are lazy, ignorant and bone-idle? As for shaking the magistrates hand for calling them scum - would you also thank him for exaggerating the offences on national TV, then also thank everyone who then classed you and your wife as scummy parents? As for Ken's comment with regards the catherdral intervening, I think they could have. Not in order to lessen the sentencing but to comment on the media reports exaggerating the offences. If Mr Molloy felt it necessary to have his few days of fame and was misguided enough to dicuss the case in the public arena then he should be prepared to take the conequences of any sanctions the invetigation board deem apt.Ken Shuffles wrote: Simplynth - have you been on the woo-woo juice again ? When Uri Geller bends the inanimate the whole world applauds!! When the Cathedral has inanimate objects bent out of shape by two local boys they are taken to court and Abused and insulted by a fat Magistrate (Unlike mine and my neighbours rubbish, which does belong to me and my neighbour) The inanimate objects in the Cathedral do not belong to the magistrate and are not the property of any individual person. What sort of education, rehabilitation, wisdom, teaching, attention did the Bishop offer in an effort to correct their behaviour in the future ? The answer is, a big fat glutonous NOTHING! No attempt whatsoever was made by the Cathedral to have any conversation or make any effort with regard to correcting the behaviour of these boys. No wisdom or education or effort or redemption was offered. NONE!...... Why? Because The Bishop was too busy getting a Crime number so he could put in his greedy claim to the insurance company. I was a little **** once. Get real. This is about the Abuse of Children by those who run our Courts and Churches. Molloy is just another Gluton who needs to abuse others to make himself feel decent and superior. The Cathedral and it's Prayer Books, it's priceless sacred objects, it's dead bones, idols, beads and other inanimate things should NOT BE VENERATED.Why should the Cathedral intervene? If I had been parent to these kids I would tell Christine Dean to mind her own business in court and shake the magistrates hand AND personally thank him for calling them SCUM AND those two boys would get such a hiding when they get home followed by excessive harsh long groundings for their behaviour and withdrawal of treats AND I'd sell off their playstations etc to pay for the damage as well and I'd smack dogooders who stick up for Christine Dean and criticise me as a parent for punishing them. Parents who are lily-livered and don't give a **** what their kids do and complains at anybody who challenges their children such as Austin did and don't give adequate enough deterrents to their children when they have done wrong are incompetant lazy ignorant boneidle parents!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
watchingyou
says...
1:05pm Mon 7 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
1:05pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
1:21pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:If you have kids who do something like this, then how CAN you stick up for them and support them, I know I certainly wouldn't. Parents who would stick for their kids in something like this are basically condoning and allowing their children to do wrong and turning a blind eye to it. I couldn't and wouldn't allow this at all;they would get the biggest wallop they weren't expecting and be grounded for a long time and i'd sell their stuff off to pay for the damage if need be. Kids today need a bloody good hiding if they go off the rails like this.
Anthony, If you need to shake the hand of a person who calls your own children absolute scum then you haven't learnt anything about Parental Loyalty. What does the Bishop think about those who bend the inanimate being branded as absolute scum.? Or is he and his fellow colluders still keeping as quiet and distant as possible when it comes to even the slightest hint of Child Abuse involving the Cathedral.?
Ken Shuffles
says...
2:22pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
2:31pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:And there are better ways to make kids see the error of their ways than being soft,not using physical punishment and constantly shouting and reasoning with them to try and snap them out of whatever they are doing or getting involved in;in the 70's and 80's kids were walloped for doing wrong and stepping out of line with the official face of authority and schoolteachers and parents and families, and thanks to the Govt refusing an total outright ban on smacking by refusing as well to make it illegal in the process but by drawing the line at physical injuries caused by more extreme forms of physical punishment becoming a law matter(and so it should be), parents still have that tool to use if needs be where it is warranted.
I don't see anyone defending these Kids. Nobody is defending what they did as if it was in any way commendable. I am sure the Parents are also not best pleased. It was the Cathedral that turned it's back, it could have taken the opportunity to have a conversation with these Kids instead of sending them to Mr Molloy to be Abused. There are better ways to educate, punish and penalise people than to Abuse them. Young People do not need to be Abused by some Nanny Authority even if our Priests and Bishops do silently support it.
Ken Shuffles
says...
2:32pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
2:53pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Any Logic and any form of reasoning without Love is futility.
Abuse is not Morality, Abuse is a Moral Stain of an immoral system which is devoid of showing either Kindness or Understanding or Love.
Kindness, Understanding and Love are the only things that need to be passed on from one generation to the next.
Abuse should NOT be passed on by EDUCATORS and Court Officials.
Ken Shuffles
says...
2:55pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
2:55pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:And what if other parents smacking their children tell you to mind your own business if you interfere with a child getting punished and you refuse and as a result you also get ten kinds of meat duffed out of you for interfering eh? You should keep your nose out of where it's not wanted, and I hope it happens to you as well where you interfere and physically try to stop a child getting smacked for wrongdoing-it will serve you right good and proper and secondly it WILL teach you to keep your interfering nebby nose out of what doesn't concern you.
No Anti Christ I'm afraid, just a bloody nuisance that writes and fights to protect children from abuse.
jaffa92
says...
2:59pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK wrote:Who's sticking up for these boys behaviour? The parents didn't and as far i can see Ken hasn't. Correct me if i'm wrong Ken but the religious issue aside, Ken is pointing out that Mr Molloy as a JP is there to issue sentences not comment on what 'normal people' would think. Mr Molloy's conduct after his reprimand was unproffessional and is under investigation. The boys received punishment for their wrongdoings and as a 'normal' peron i agree that I too would have grounded and made sure they paid for any damage themselves and ensured they complied with any sentence given by court however i fail to see how giving your kids a bloody good hiding on top of that serves any purpose apart from teaching them to be afraid of you or that it is ok if your bigger or stronger to use violence if you disapprove of something someones done. That doesn't teach your kid right from wrong. What is your definition of parental corporal punishment- it must be more than a smacked behind or smacked leg because you feel the need to call it an 'hiding' and emphasise the point by adding 'good' and 'bloody'.
Ken Shuffles wrote: Anthony, If you need to shake the hand of a person who calls your own children absolute scum then you haven't learnt anything about Parental Loyalty. What does the Bishop think about those who bend the inanimate being branded as absolute scum.? Or is he and his fellow colluders still keeping as quiet and distant as possible when it comes to even the slightest hint of Child Abuse involving the Cathedral.?If you have kids who do something like this, then how CAN you stick up for them and support them, I know I certainly wouldn't. Parents who would stick for their kids in something like this are basically condoning and allowing their children to do wrong and turning a blind eye to it. I couldn't and wouldn't allow this at all;they would get the biggest wallop they weren't expecting and be grounded for a long time and i'd sell their stuff off to pay for the damage if need be. Kids today need a bloody good hiding if they go off the rails like this.
If your child was charged with assault would a real good kicking be in order before or after you sold their belongings and would they learn their lesson or be prone to be more violent themselves as a result.
I doubt you will answer my points as you will be far too busy thinking of another sanctimonious holier than thou answer.
AnthonyUK
says...
3:04pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:You are a righteous childrens rights protecting pig! Yes they would get a good smack on their behinds yes they WOULD get grounded for a long time and YES I would sell their stuff off if necessary to pay for the damage if needed.
AnthonyUK wrote:Who's sticking up for these boys behaviour? The parents didn't and as far i can see Ken hasn't. Correct me if i'm wrong Ken but the religious issue aside, Ken is pointing out that Mr Molloy as a JP is there to issue sentences not comment on what 'normal people' would think. Mr Molloy's conduct after his reprimand was unproffessional and is under investigation. The boys received punishment for their wrongdoings and as a 'normal' peron i agree that I too would have grounded and made sure they paid for any damage themselves and ensured they complied with any sentence given by court however i fail to see how giving your kids a bloody good hiding on top of that serves any purpose apart from teaching them to be afraid of you or that it is ok if your bigger or stronger to use violence if you disapprove of something someones done. That doesn't teach your kid right from wrong. What is your definition of parental corporal punishment- it must be more than a smacked behind or smacked leg because you feel the need to call it an 'hiding' and emphasise the point by adding 'good' and 'bloody'. If your child was charged with assault would a real good kicking be in order before or after you sold their belongings and would they learn their lesson or be prone to be more violent themselves as a result. I doubt you will answer my points as you will be far too busy thinking of another sanctimonious holier than thou answer.Ken Shuffles wrote: Anthony, If you need to shake the hand of a person who calls your own children absolute scum then you haven't learnt anything about Parental Loyalty. What does the Bishop think about those who bend the inanimate being branded as absolute scum.? Or is he and his fellow colluders still keeping as quiet and distant as possible when it comes to even the slightest hint of Child Abuse involving the Cathedral.?If you have kids who do something like this, then how CAN you stick up for them and support them, I know I certainly wouldn't. Parents who would stick for their kids in something like this are basically condoning and allowing their children to do wrong and turning a blind eye to it. I couldn't and wouldn't allow this at all;they would get the biggest wallop they weren't expecting and be grounded for a long time and i'd sell their stuff off to pay for the damage if need be. Kids today need a bloody good hiding if they go off the rails like this.
watchingyou
says...
3:15pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92
says...
3:19pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Like i said if you advocate in your words ' a bloody good hiding' what's your definition of that. Answer the questions posed in my last post and stop repeating yourself on what you would do.
That may be too hard for you though given your response to Kens post you obviously advocate violence as an answer to everything you don't agree with
watchingyou
says...
3:22pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
3:22pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:I didn't say bloody good hiding you kennock! I meant a wallop you idiot. A crack round the head is what a wallop meant you jaffacakedelight!
A smacked behind at 16yrs old - don't make me laugh. Like i said if you advocate in your words ' a bloody good hiding' what's your definition of that. Answer the questions posed in my last post and stop repeating yourself on what you would do. That may be too hard for you though given your response to Kens post you obviously advocate violence as an answer to everything you don't agree with
AnthonyUK
says...
3:23pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:A lawless unpunished kid at 16 who gets away with anything and everything you take the biscuit you jaffacakedelight!
A smacked behind at 16yrs old - don't make me laugh. Like i said if you advocate in your words ' a bloody good hiding' what's your definition of that. Answer the questions posed in my last post and stop repeating yourself on what you would do. That may be too hard for you though given your response to Kens post you obviously advocate violence as an answer to everything you don't agree with
watchingyou
says...
3:26pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92
says...
3:31pm Mon 7 Jun 10
i quote from your earlier post -'Kids today need a bloody good hiding if they go off the rails like this.'
Make your mind up is it a 'bloody good hiding' - a wallop (crack round the head) or a good smack on the behind?
If your going to post at least try to remember what you have said or even make up you mind what level of violence your advocating without having to resort to playground name calling in order to avoid answering the questions posed.
Ken Shuffles
says...
3:31pm Mon 7 Jun 10
AnthonyUK
says...
3:35pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92 wrote:And you shouldn't order me around and tell me what to do jaffacake! A hiding is a tanning on the behind a wallop is crack round the head DIV!
AnthonyUK - I didn't say bloody good hiding you kennock! I meant a wallop you idiot. A crack round the head is what a wallop meant you jaffacakedelight! i quote from your earlier post -'Kids today need a bloody good hiding if they go off the rails like this.' Make your mind up is it a 'bloody good hiding' - a wallop (crack round the head) or a good smack on the behind? If your going to post at least try to remember what you have said or even make up you mind what level of violence your advocating without having to resort to playground name calling in order to avoid answering the questions posed.
Ken Shuffles
says...
3:36pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
3:38pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92
says...
3:49pm Mon 7 Jun 10
3:15pm Mon 7 Jun 10
jaffa92,NO ! Don`t start to seperate out the religion from the statements about Molloy by Ken Shuffles, KenShuffles denigrates the cathedral `Staff` and ALL Catholic Ministers at every turn.
How easy it is to pick out what you want from a comment. And we have news media in place to inform us ( another establishment that Ken Shuffles attacks often ) He just will not give up with his slagging ! Well I will NEVER give in to verbally and mentally deranged ignoramuses like Ken Shuffles. SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT ?
Jaffa replies: I was seperating the religious issue because it is not my view - I would say that it's easy to pick out what you want from a comment, most of the posts on here do. News media in place to inform us, of what the truth or whatever they want to print? Giving in to Ken's views? I never suggested that anyone should
Ken Shuffles
says...
5:59pm Mon 7 Jun 10
In fact I like doing it. :)
Ken Shuffles
says...
6:01pm Mon 7 Jun 10
watchingyou
says...
6:35pm Mon 7 Jun 10
u double standard hypocryte ! By the way. seeing as you can imagine what is on gods mind When will the world end ( Year and Day )
Davidoff
says...
6:55pm Mon 7 Jun 10
.
Forget the 'confessional' but the man's plain 'obsessional!'
.
I am seriously glad I am NOT one of his neighbours! Oh, so now he's declared himself to be God! Like I said, is he playing 'let's pretend' on these reports because seriously ... if he's not ... Are you for real or just someone who acts like this for 'fun?'. Plenty of them online for example!
ste.g
says...
7:58pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles wrote:you challenge away ken.with a bit of luck they may lock you up in one and not give you access to a pc.
I Challenge any of the Institutions of Man which are inherantly flawed and abusive. I do that by supporting each Individual.
watchingyou
says...
9:30pm Mon 7 Jun 10
Ken Shuffles
says...
9:44am Tue 8 Jun 10
........ your world has not even begun!
watchingyou
says...
10:09am Tue 8 Jun 10
Slimplynth
says...
10:12am Tue 8 Jun 10
Mo Lestor
says...
1:31pm Tue 8 Jun 10
past it says...
8:42am Thu 3 Jun 10