Lancashire County Council scrap subsidies for all loss-making Sunday

LANCASHIRE County Council proposes to scrap subsidies for all loss-making Sunday, Bank Holiday and evening bus services alarming bus operators, the drivers’ trade union, and politicians.

The plan will affect 72 routes, including 37 in the East of the county, to save £3.8 million over two years from May 18 next year.

They include services right across Burnley, Hyndburn, Pendle, Rossendale, Ribble Valley and Chorley including ‘The Main Line’ route from Clitheroe to Barnoldswick and services into Blackburn.

County transport boss John Fillis he will focus cash on maintaining daytime routes so people can use public transport.

Opponents of the move, expected to lead to operators withdrawing services, claim it will put people off buses altogether.

As part of the scheme, out to consultation until January 10, the county proposes to invest £500,000 in ‘dial-a-ride’ for those in need.

Pendle Peer Tony Greaves said: “I am concerned. I fear this could be the thin end of a thick wedge leading to the end of all subsidies for loss-making bus services in Lancashire which would be a disaster.”

Brian Todd, East Lancashire representative of the National Pensioners’ Convention, said: “This is alarming. Older people will be put off using buses. They need to get back in the evening as well as go out in the day.”

Four-fifths of services in Lancashire are run by private companies on a commercial basis. The loss-making 20 per cent are subsidised by £8m from the county each year.

Subsidies will continue for 103 daytime services, reviewed when current contracts expire.

Coun Fillis said: "This proposal would maintain the bulk of subsidies focusing on routes during the day, when they are most used.”

Main county bus operator Transdev’s sales director Nigel Eggleton said: “The proposed loss of evening and Sunday bus services to large areas of Lancashire is worrying.

“Many passengers using buses during the day rely on evening services to get home. The possible effect upon services at other times of the day is of great concern.”

Debbie Brannan, of the Unite union, said: “We are concerned about the amount of cuts that will be implemented in 2014 and would encourage everyone to speak up in this consultation.”

Maureen Bateson, transport boss for Blackburn with Darwen which co-subsidises some of the services, said: “I understand their difficulty but I am concerned, especially as we want people to come to the borough at weekends and evenings.”

Comments (22)

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8:08pm Sat 14 Dec 13

Akkybro says...

Fabulous news ... for taxi drivers.
Fabulous news ... for taxi drivers. Akkybro

11:52pm Sat 14 Dec 13

retsofad says...

So much for the Government wanting people to use public transport LCC will be closing bus stations next
So much for the Government wanting people to use public transport LCC will be closing bus stations next retsofad

11:17am Sun 15 Dec 13

willie eckerslike says...

"DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???
"DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ??? willie eckerslike

1:11pm Sun 15 Dec 13

GAC says...

willie eckerslike wrote:
"DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???
yeah because 150 years ago people where forced to travel 20+ miles to work due to no local jobs. as for cycling its fine and dandy until the snow and ice hits then what walk 20 miles to work.

also the amount of people this will hit who work evenings on min wage will be rather large go and tell them to buy a car when they can just afford to live as it is.
[quote][p][bold]willie eckerslike[/bold] wrote: "DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???[/p][/quote]yeah because 150 years ago people where forced to travel 20+ miles to work due to no local jobs. as for cycling its fine and dandy until the snow and ice hits then what walk 20 miles to work. also the amount of people this will hit who work evenings on min wage will be rather large go and tell them to buy a car when they can just afford to live as it is. GAC

4:13pm Sun 15 Dec 13

DaveBurnley says...

willie eckerslike wrote:
"DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???
Your last line sums you up very nicely.



You can't see anything beyond your blinkered opinion can you?
[quote][p][bold]willie eckerslike[/bold] wrote: "DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???[/p][/quote]Your last line sums you up very nicely. You can't see anything beyond your blinkered opinion can you? DaveBurnley

5:01pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Timefor says...

The sooner all public transport is taken back into public ownership along with the power companies then the sooner these services will be viewed as "services" and not "businesses".
The sooner all public transport is taken back into public ownership along with the power companies then the sooner these services will be viewed as "services" and not "businesses". Timefor

5:29pm Sun 15 Dec 13

fireonthemountain says...

And if Gordon Brown hadn't made the vote-buying-decision to
let the older people travel for nothing , thereby burdening local
councils with having to pay massively more in subsidies.........
And if Gordon Brown hadn't made the vote-buying-decision to let the older people travel for nothing , thereby burdening local councils with having to pay massively more in subsidies......... fireonthemountain

6:40pm Sun 15 Dec 13

pdb951 says...

This is the council trying to force some more money out of the government
This is the council trying to force some more money out of the government pdb951

6:53pm Sun 15 Dec 13

willie eckerslike says...

GAC wrote:
willie eckerslike wrote:
"DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???
yeah because 150 years ago people where forced to travel 20+ miles to work due to no local jobs. as for cycling its fine and dandy until the snow and ice hits then what walk 20 miles to work.

also the amount of people this will hit who work evenings on min wage will be rather large go and tell them to buy a car when they can just afford to live as it is.
Snow and ice no problem, you can purchase SKIS very reasonably priced on the internet, should the snow and ice make cycling difficult, as I have already said, I see no problems here, but please don't use our council tax money to subsidise poorly used public transport, furthermore people who voted conservative at the last election voted for cuts, ( they made no secret of it ) now they moan because it affects themselves, I have no sympathy at all for them, but I do feel sorry for hard working people who have not got the brass for a car or taxi.
[quote][p][bold]GAC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]willie eckerslike[/bold] wrote: "DONT MOAN",, JUST BUY A BICYCLE OH, AND YOU WILL BE FITTER TOO ??? just think there were NO BUSES 150 years ago and folk managed ok, didn't they, people are just to lazy today to walk more than 5 miles, and for those people who have mobility problems they get an allowance or a car instead, SO as far I can see no problems at all here ???[/p][/quote]yeah because 150 years ago people where forced to travel 20+ miles to work due to no local jobs. as for cycling its fine and dandy until the snow and ice hits then what walk 20 miles to work. also the amount of people this will hit who work evenings on min wage will be rather large go and tell them to buy a car when they can just afford to live as it is.[/p][/quote]Snow and ice no problem, you can purchase SKIS very reasonably priced on the internet, should the snow and ice make cycling difficult, as I have already said, I see no problems here, but please don't use our council tax money to subsidise poorly used public transport, furthermore people who voted conservative at the last election voted for cuts, ( they made no secret of it ) now they moan because it affects themselves, I have no sympathy at all for them, but I do feel sorry for hard working people who have not got the brass for a car or taxi. willie eckerslike

7:10pm Sun 15 Dec 13

TheCaveman says...

Goodness knows I'm no fan of using public (that means OUR) money to subsidise buses, I don't use them. But I can still recognise how these services are essential to those people who MUST rely on them.

Would LCC like to announce how much they will be cutting council tax by, now they are saving so much money?
Goodness knows I'm no fan of using public (that means OUR) money to subsidise buses, I don't use them. But I can still recognise how these services are essential to those people who MUST rely on them. Would LCC like to announce how much they will be cutting council tax by, now they are saving so much money? TheCaveman

8:28pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Loving lances says...

If the previous Conservative-led county council had done this, then the Labour opposition would have gone bonkers. Now that Labour is in charge they are facing the hard facts, just as Ed Milibean and Ed Ballls will have to do if they win the general election. .
If the previous Conservative-led county council had done this, then the Labour opposition would have gone bonkers. Now that Labour is in charge they are facing the hard facts, just as Ed Milibean and Ed Ballls will have to do if they win the general election. . Loving lances

9:09pm Sun 15 Dec 13

fireonthemountain says...

Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) !

Any of you care to explain why ?

When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites .
Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round .

The bus companies loved it .

Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on .

Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued
free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !!

Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" .

Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company .

Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself .

The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I
can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson .

"I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ."

So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers
are not necessarily the young .

WELL DONE I say .

I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers .

Who contribute .
Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) ! Any of you care to explain why ? When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites . Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round . The bus companies loved it . Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on . Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !! Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" . Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company . Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself . The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson . "I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ." So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers are not necessarily the young . WELL DONE I say . I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers . Who contribute . fireonthemountain

10:24pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Loving lances says...

fireonthemountain wrote:
Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) !

Any of you care to explain why ?

When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites .
Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round .

The bus companies loved it .

Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on .

Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued
free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !!

Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" .

Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company .

Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself .

The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I
can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson .

"I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ."

So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers
are not necessarily the young .

WELL DONE I say .

I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers .

Who contribute .
Well, most buses in my area would be empty if there were no OAPs using their passes. Drivers grumble like mad.
So ban the passes and there will be no buses and no jobs for drivers.. They'll soon be demanding their reinstatement!
[quote][p][bold]fireonthemountain[/bold] wrote: Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) ! Any of you care to explain why ? When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites . Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round . The bus companies loved it . Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on . Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !! Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" . Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company . Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself . The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson . "I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ." So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers are not necessarily the young . WELL DONE I say . I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers . Who contribute .[/p][/quote]Well, most buses in my area would be empty if there were no OAPs using their passes. Drivers grumble like mad. So ban the passes and there will be no buses and no jobs for drivers.. They'll soon be demanding their reinstatement! Loving lances

4:41am Mon 16 Dec 13

GAC says...

fireonthemountain wrote:
Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) !

Any of you care to explain why ?

When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites .
Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round .

The bus companies loved it .

Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on .

Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued
free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !!

Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" .

Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company .

Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself .

The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I
can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson .

"I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ."

So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers
are not necessarily the young .

WELL DONE I say .

I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers .

Who contribute .
you keep saying council tax for workers. fine you go and have a go at the people who will be losing their jobs if specific buses get cut, im sure they will agree with your views.

rossendale buses even with the oap passes makes a profit and has always done, yet they cry poverty. this year they have blown £500k on a re brand and are investing in wifi on the buses, funny as they cant afford to run buses.

is interesting how its always councilors cutting the bus services, nice when you have a travel expenses package to get taxi's with i guess.
[quote][p][bold]fireonthemountain[/bold] wrote: Well . I have to laugh . 3 people voted me down (so far) ! Any of you care to explain why ? When G.B. made travel free , the buses were inundated with parasites . Nothing to do ? Let's get on a bus ! It's free and we can watch the world go round . The bus companies loved it . Claim a subsidy every time a pensioner gets on . Do you think that maybe , just maybe , some bus companies issued free tickets for non-existant passengers? Talk about a license to print money !! Very similar situation exists in the Health Service , with "bed-blocking" . Option one - stay in Hospital , free food and electricity , bit of company . Option two - go home , fend and pay for yourself . The Simpsons did a partial cartoon about this sort of thing , which I can crystalise in the immortal words of Grandpa Simpson . "I'm old - gimme , gimme , gimme ." So now The Council are pulling the plug , realising that scroungers are not necessarily the young . WELL DONE I say . I am happy to pay my Council Tax for workers . Who contribute .[/p][/quote]you keep saying council tax for workers. fine you go and have a go at the people who will be losing their jobs if specific buses get cut, im sure they will agree with your views. rossendale buses even with the oap passes makes a profit and has always done, yet they cry poverty. this year they have blown £500k on a re brand and are investing in wifi on the buses, funny as they cant afford to run buses. is interesting how its always councilors cutting the bus services, nice when you have a travel expenses package to get taxi's with i guess. GAC

6:50am Mon 16 Dec 13

Loving lances says...

GAC you are spot on. The Rosso bus company has a board of directors with little business experience, lots of ex-public sector and voluntary workers.
When it makes losses it is nothing to do with the council, its a private body, but successes are due to it being council- owned. What a bunch!
GAC you are spot on. The Rosso bus company has a board of directors with little business experience, lots of ex-public sector and voluntary workers. When it makes losses it is nothing to do with the council, its a private body, but successes are due to it being council- owned. What a bunch! Loving lances

10:05am Mon 16 Dec 13

AnthonyUK says...

Some people will end up stranded through this move.
Some people will end up stranded through this move. AnthonyUK

11:45am Mon 16 Dec 13

AnthonyUK says...

Bus privatisation in the 80's has never worked and still doesn't work. It set up lots of buses and competition from the move then big boys bought little dads creating big multi regional and multi nationals that took it away and they constantly axe routes and reduce sunday and evening frequency of mainline regular services to this day and think nobody will be affected through it. Bus privatisation should NEVER have happened it was the worst thing that ever went through and wrecked everything.
Bus privatisation in the 80's has never worked and still doesn't work. It set up lots of buses and competition from the move then big boys bought little dads creating big multi regional and multi nationals that took it away and they constantly axe routes and reduce sunday and evening frequency of mainline regular services to this day and think nobody will be affected through it. Bus privatisation should NEVER have happened it was the worst thing that ever went through and wrecked everything. AnthonyUK

1:01pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Loving lances says...

Anthony K,

I think the Rossendale drivers who went to Transdev are a lot happier than the mates they left behind. Rosso is distinctly drosso.
I use Transdev in London and they are super.
Now that both Rossendale and LCC are Labour controlled there is no excuse for not building a new bus station. Just look ar the new Rochdale one.
Anthony K, I think the Rossendale drivers who went to Transdev are a lot happier than the mates they left behind. Rosso is distinctly drosso. I use Transdev in London and they are super. Now that both Rossendale and LCC are Labour controlled there is no excuse for not building a new bus station. Just look ar the new Rochdale one. Loving lances

2:10pm Tue 17 Dec 13

AnthonyUK says...

Loving lances wrote:
Anthony K,

I think the Rossendale drivers who went to Transdev are a lot happier than the mates they left behind. Rosso is distinctly drosso.
I use Transdev in London and they are super.
Now that both Rossendale and LCC are Labour controlled there is no excuse for not building a new bus station. Just look ar the new Rochdale one.
Transdev are a bunch of monkeys! They cut everything to the cloth themselves and provide inadequate infrequent sunday and evening and holiday bus services. If I ran a bus company I would have megacheap fares, frequent services 7days a week on most urban and suburban and rural routes, good value cheap 7 day/14 day/21 day/28 day/monthly and yearly tickets and all service tickets, buses would run on cooking oil and biodiesel to keep fuel costs down and there wouldn't be regular and frequent monthly and yearly fare increases either.
[quote][p][bold]Loving lances[/bold] wrote: Anthony K, I think the Rossendale drivers who went to Transdev are a lot happier than the mates they left behind. Rosso is distinctly drosso. I use Transdev in London and they are super. Now that both Rossendale and LCC are Labour controlled there is no excuse for not building a new bus station. Just look ar the new Rochdale one.[/p][/quote]Transdev are a bunch of monkeys! They cut everything to the cloth themselves and provide inadequate infrequent sunday and evening and holiday bus services. If I ran a bus company I would have megacheap fares, frequent services 7days a week on most urban and suburban and rural routes, good value cheap 7 day/14 day/21 day/28 day/monthly and yearly tickets and all service tickets, buses would run on cooking oil and biodiesel to keep fuel costs down and there wouldn't be regular and frequent monthly and yearly fare increases either. AnthonyUK

4:41pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Loving lances says...

Anthony Uk: I still think that Trandev are a million times more professional than Rosso but we will have to differ.
But I very much agree with your other suggestions. I wonder what the bosses at Haslingden would say. Too modern.!!
Anthony Uk: I still think that Trandev are a million times more professional than Rosso but we will have to differ. But I very much agree with your other suggestions. I wonder what the bosses at Haslingden would say. Too modern.!! Loving lances

11:15am Sat 21 Dec 13

LancsLocalBoy says...

This change is morally wrong. It won't just affect OAPs but vulnerable people and everyone on minimum wage working evening shifts.

The consultation was not published with the monthly service changes which are displayed in bus stations, travel shops and libraries. Perhaps this was not an accident. Details of it should be published in these locations and the deadline extended. For the many people that do not know the details they be found at: http://www3.lancashi
re.gov.uk/corporate/
consultation/respons
es/response.asp?ID=2
25

Whilst savings do need need to be made, just a blanket cut of all services is morally wrong especially when the decision makers all have travel allowances or earn a lot more than minimum wage.
Merging services and reduced frequencies could be considered by analysing the travel data to ensure all communities remain connected even if via connections at town centres.

The subs from the now cards help pay the bus driver's wages and provide crucial income for local shops and cafés and prevent them from closing. More importantly it prevents social isolation and stops communities becoming ghost towns.

The main people that agree with the cuts are either rich or will not be left stranded on a cold windy night and perhaps during the day if LCC gets their way!
This change is morally wrong. It won't just affect OAPs but vulnerable people and everyone on minimum wage working evening shifts. The consultation was not published with the monthly service changes which are displayed in bus stations, travel shops and libraries. Perhaps this was not an accident. Details of it should be published in these locations and the deadline extended. For the many people that do not know the details they be found at: http://www3.lancashi re.gov.uk/corporate/ consultation/respons es/response.asp?ID=2 25 Whilst savings do need need to be made, just a blanket cut of all services is morally wrong especially when the decision makers all have travel allowances or earn a lot more than minimum wage. Merging services and reduced frequencies could be considered by analysing the travel data to ensure all communities remain connected even if via connections at town centres. The subs from the now cards help pay the bus driver's wages and provide crucial income for local shops and cafés and prevent them from closing. More importantly it prevents social isolation and stops communities becoming ghost towns. The main people that agree with the cuts are either rich or will not be left stranded on a cold windy night and perhaps during the day if LCC gets their way! LancsLocalBoy

6:43pm Mon 23 Dec 13

soup123 says...

Timefor wrote:
The sooner all public transport is taken back into public ownership along with the power companies then the sooner these services will be viewed as "services" and not "businesses".
It wouldn't make any difference in this case. The commercially run services will still run, but it's the subsidised services are being scrapped. Even if the bus companies were publicly owned they still wouldn't run the services without a subsidy.
[quote][p][bold]Timefor[/bold] wrote: The sooner all public transport is taken back into public ownership along with the power companies then the sooner these services will be viewed as "services" and not "businesses".[/p][/quote]It wouldn't make any difference in this case. The commercially run services will still run, but it's the subsidised services are being scrapped. Even if the bus companies were publicly owned they still wouldn't run the services without a subsidy. soup123

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