Blackburn's oldest grammar school QEGS bids to become free

NEW ERA Chairman of governors Jeremy Gorick and headmaster Simon Corns unveil the QEGS free school prospectus

NEW ERA Chairman of governors Jeremy Gorick and headmaster Simon Corns unveil the QEGS free school prospectus

First published in Blackburn Lancashire Telegraph: Photograph of the Author by , Assistant picture editor

EAST Lancashire’s oldest grammar school is set to end its private status, opening the door to non fee-paying students.

QEGS, founded in 1509 and given its royal charter nearly 60 years later by Queen Elizabeth I, is bidding to become a free school, funded by taxpayers.

Yesterday school leaders told staff, pupils and parents about their plans to apply for the change next year, ending fees of more than £10,000 a year.

It comes as pupil numbers fell from a high of 1,200 in 1997 to 478 this school year.

The move has been criticised by union bosses as ‘a cynical move to get taxpayers to fund private education’ while concerns have been expressed on the impact on nearby schools which could lose pupils.

But leaders at QEGS said the change would allow children of all abilities and backgrounds to apply.

Free schools were introduced by Education Secretary Michael Gove as part of his controversial schools shake-up.

They receive their payments directly from Government, but are not controlled by the local education authority.

If QEGS is granted permission it will still be able to set its own extended curriculum, term dates and length of school day.

Its governing body will oversee and operate the school, but pupils will not have to sit an entrance exam.

According to headmaster, Simon Corns, the new status would mean that QEGS would provide the same standard of education it is renowned but for without fees.

He said: “The local economy is such that it’s becoming increasingly difficult, even for high earning parents, to afford fees for education and that got us thinking about how we can positively move forwards.

“This will allow more pupils to come to the school and receive an excellent education.

“Despite our exam successes, it’s down to economics.”

Mr Corns said if successful, the new status would take effect from September 2014 and the final entrance exam would take place in January 2013.

A decision is expected next Spring but fees would still be expected for the 2013/14 year.

“We plan to return to around 1,100 pupils, which we believe we will be able to do.

“It’s possible we will get some backlash. However, I don’t think many parents will have chosen the school because of its exclusivity.

“There’s likely to be a drop in numbers with other schools, but we have discussed our plans with Lancashire County Council and Blackburn with Darwen Council.”

Under the plan the school’s nursery, for children aged 3 months to four years, will remain private. But primary, secondary and sixth form pupils would be included in the new free school status.

Students currently pay £10,236 per year in fees, with around 25 per cent of current students receiving some kind of bursary. If it becomes a free school the Government would pay £4,500 per pupil.

The catchment would still be Lancashire wide and entry to the school would be based on SATs results and information provided by previous schools.

It would leave Moorland School, Clitheroe, Oakhill College, Whalley, Stonyhurst College, Heathland School, Accrington and Westholme School, Blackburn, as the only remaining private schools in East Lancashire.

Jeremy Gorick, chairman of governors, said: “Nothing is going to change, except it will be free, and there may be more children. We see more children as a positive, because we will be able to offer more subjects.

“We are extremely excited about the ability to go back to becoming a free school and appeal to larger numbers. We see it as extremely positive.

Simon Jones, NUT Union Blackburn with Darwen secretary and national executive member, said: “Regardless of where they have come from, free schools are neither wanted nor needed.

“They are only going to cause further havoc with the local authority admission planning for school places.

“I believe this is a cynical move to get taxpayers to fund private education that parents previously paid for and that there are plenty of excellent community comprehensives to choose from.”

He said the change could also impact on other schools in the area as QEGS would be seeking to take on 600 extra pupils.

Blackburn MP Jack Straw said: “I think it’s very sensible and it will have the effect of preserving the ethos and character of QEGS, whilst making the school more viable for children of families from more modest backgrounds.

“QEGS draws pupils from far and wide. I think it’s hard to predict what effect it will have on other schools in the area. I don’t think any school in Blackburn will be adversely effected by this change.”

Parent Nicholas Neal, who attended QEGS between 1994 and 2001, said: “I think the application is a good thing. It opens up opportunities for more people.”

An open day will be held between 9.30am and 1.30pm on Saturday, December 1. To book call 01254 686309.

A proud tradition since 1509

FOUNDED in 1509, Queen Elizabeth Grammar School has served the people of East Lancashire for generations.

The school survived the reformation and in 1567 was granted a Royal Charter by Queen Elizabeth I to become a free gramnmar school.

In 1884, the school moved to its current site.

The Harrison Playing Fields at Lammack were opened in 1920.

The current school was completed in 1930.

It became a direct grant school in 1956, therefore allowing people of all backgrounds to attend without having to pay fees.

The direct grant system, which means the Government part-funded some fees, was abolished in 1976 when QEGS chose to revert back to its independent status rather than join the state sector.

The first sixth form girls were admitted in 1976 when the school became co-educational.

During the 1990s, QEGS was a participating school in the Assisted Places Scheme, which saw its pupil numbers grow dramatically. This scheme was scrapped in 1997.

In 2001, it became fully coeducational and has since developed into a junior, infant school and nursery.

QEGS former pupils include footballer James Beattie; Richard Bowker CBE, formerly CEO of National Express Group; Krishnan Guru-Murthy, former BBC journalist and senior newscaster of Britain’s Channel 4 News; fashion designer Wayne Hemingway and film director Michael Winterbottom.

Comments (112)

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11:25am Tue 6 Nov 12

paperboy70 says...

St Wilf's will be bricking it...
St Wilf's will be bricking it... paperboy70
  • Score: 1

11:47am Tue 6 Nov 12

Joseph Yossarian says...

One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union.

Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance.
One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union. Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance. Joseph Yossarian
  • Score: 2

11:49am Tue 6 Nov 12

midas says...

Joseph Yossarian wrote:
One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union. Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance.
Spot on!!
.
“Regardless of where they have come from, free schools are neither wanted nor needed by the NUT.
.
There, fixed it!
[quote][p][bold]Joseph Yossarian[/bold] wrote: One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union. Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance.[/p][/quote]Spot on!! . “Regardless of where they have come from, free schools are neither wanted nor needed by the NUT. . There, fixed it! midas
  • Score: 1

12:21pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Joseph Yossarian wrote:
One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union.

Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance.
You are completely right about the unions. How can a quality school, being available for free, be a bad thing for the people of Blackburn? The unions just bleat for the sake of it.

Labour are completely funded by the unions though. That means the interests of the unions are put first and foremost when Labour are in power, not the interests of the public. Which means society suffers greatly. The self serving fat cat parasites who run today's unions have a lot to answer for.

The trouble is that on the other side we have the Tories - who think rich people should live by different rules. Avoiding tax and raping children is something to be knighted for if you are rich and a Tory.

Without wanting to sound doom and gloom, we seem to get shafted either way in this country. Lol, it's Catch 22 come to think of it Yossarian!
[quote][p][bold]Joseph Yossarian[/bold] wrote: One suspects from the uninformed derogatory comments of the union that the QEGS teachers are not in his union. Perhaps the authorities should be asking if there is a direct link between union activity and school performance.[/p][/quote]You are completely right about the unions. How can a quality school, being available for free, be a bad thing for the people of Blackburn? The unions just bleat for the sake of it. Labour are completely funded by the unions though. That means the interests of the unions are put first and foremost when Labour are in power, not the interests of the public. Which means society suffers greatly. The self serving fat cat parasites who run today's unions have a lot to answer for. The trouble is that on the other side we have the Tories - who think rich people should live by different rules. Avoiding tax and raping children is something to be knighted for if you are rich and a Tory. Without wanting to sound doom and gloom, we seem to get shafted either way in this country. Lol, it's Catch 22 come to think of it Yossarian! Jack Herer
  • Score: -1

12:26pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Noiticer says...

I suspect QEGS are milking the system. Perhaps they are struggling to find enough pupils to pay their fees so are now looking to the state for funding. When the political pendulum swings leftwards in the future, as it will inevitably do, QEGS will become just another state school having to take pupils of all abilities and backgrounds regardless. I wonder how its exam results fare then? Free schools are a passing political fad which may last ten or twenty years but their end will come.
I suspect QEGS are milking the system. Perhaps they are struggling to find enough pupils to pay their fees so are now looking to the state for funding. When the political pendulum swings leftwards in the future, as it will inevitably do, QEGS will become just another state school having to take pupils of all abilities and backgrounds regardless. I wonder how its exam results fare then? Free schools are a passing political fad which may last ten or twenty years but their end will come. Noiticer
  • Score: -5

12:41pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Noiticer wrote:
I suspect QEGS are milking the system. Perhaps they are struggling to find enough pupils to pay their fees so are now looking to the state for funding. When the political pendulum swings leftwards in the future, as it will inevitably do, QEGS will become just another state school having to take pupils of all abilities and backgrounds regardless. I wonder how its exam results fare then? Free schools are a passing political fad which may last ten or twenty years but their end will come.
Of course QEGS are struggling to find enough fee paying pupils, that's exactly why they are going for free school status. What do you suggest they do; wind down? Everyone would much rather a quality school like that stayed open in Blackburn. If it could even expand under this new arrangement, then brilliant.

Decent schools aren't passing political fads. St Wilfrid's haven't changed a great deal since I went in the 1980s - they were decent then and they are decent now. They've never been fee paying though.

Decent schools are decent schools, and QEGS will undoubtedly stay outstanding regardless of it being free or fee paying.
[quote][p][bold]Noiticer[/bold] wrote: I suspect QEGS are milking the system. Perhaps they are struggling to find enough pupils to pay their fees so are now looking to the state for funding. When the political pendulum swings leftwards in the future, as it will inevitably do, QEGS will become just another state school having to take pupils of all abilities and backgrounds regardless. I wonder how its exam results fare then? Free schools are a passing political fad which may last ten or twenty years but their end will come.[/p][/quote]Of course QEGS are struggling to find enough fee paying pupils, that's exactly why they are going for free school status. What do you suggest they do; wind down? Everyone would much rather a quality school like that stayed open in Blackburn. If it could even expand under this new arrangement, then brilliant. Decent schools aren't passing political fads. St Wilfrid's haven't changed a great deal since I went in the 1980s - they were decent then and they are decent now. They've never been fee paying though. Decent schools are decent schools, and QEGS will undoubtedly stay outstanding regardless of it being free or fee paying. Jack Herer
  • Score: 7

12:49pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Interocitor says...

"It comes as pupil numbers fell from a high of 1,200 in 1997 to 478 this school year"

Nice way to get us taxpayers to bail out what is obviously a failing business.
"It comes as pupil numbers fell from a high of 1,200 in 1997 to 478 this school year" Nice way to get us taxpayers to bail out what is obviously a failing business. Interocitor
  • Score: 0

12:56pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Excluded again says...

I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?
I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them? Excluded again
  • Score: 1

1:07pm Tue 6 Nov 12

ladysal says...

Excluded again wrote:
I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?
If the Govt runs a scheme to allow you to, then why not?
Of course QEGS want more students: they make no bones about that. Yes, they will become mixed ability: the article states that the entrance exam will finish, with entrance based on the same tests etc that all state schools apply.
The Union appears to bleat for the sake of bleating: I agree it has more to do with the lack of Union membership at QEGS than anything else.
Good luck to them I say: at least we will end up with a non denominatinoal free school with over five hundred years of experience.....
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?[/p][/quote]If the Govt runs a scheme to allow you to, then why not? Of course QEGS want more students: they make no bones about that. Yes, they will become mixed ability: the article states that the entrance exam will finish, with entrance based on the same tests etc that all state schools apply. The Union appears to bleat for the sake of bleating: I agree it has more to do with the lack of Union membership at QEGS than anything else. Good luck to them I say: at least we will end up with a non denominatinoal free school with over five hundred years of experience..... ladysal
  • Score: 0

1:17pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Excluded again wrote:
I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?
Say your competitors already ran with the government paying the bills though, wouldn't you just want the same as them?
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?[/p][/quote]Say your competitors already ran with the government paying the bills though, wouldn't you just want the same as them? Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Interocitor wrote:
"It comes as pupil numbers fell from a high of 1,200 in 1997 to 478 this school year"

Nice way to get us taxpayers to bail out what is obviously a failing business.
Are most schools failing businesses then, because no one but the taxpayer pays for them?

That being the obvious case, I'd gladly have someone like QEGS in this vast failing business market. The reason being they seem very good at the bit most people think is important for schools; which is an excellent education for our kids.

More failing businesses like QEGS please, if it means a better education for the children of Blackburn.

That's a no brainer surely? If it's not then I'm guessing you didn't go to QEGS!
[quote][p][bold]Interocitor[/bold] wrote: "It comes as pupil numbers fell from a high of 1,200 in 1997 to 478 this school year" Nice way to get us taxpayers to bail out what is obviously a failing business.[/p][/quote]Are most schools failing businesses then, because no one but the taxpayer pays for them? That being the obvious case, I'd gladly have someone like QEGS in this vast failing business market. The reason being they seem very good at the bit most people think is important for schools; which is an excellent education for our kids. More failing businesses like QEGS please, if it means a better education for the children of Blackburn. That's a no brainer surely? If it's not then I'm guessing you didn't go to QEGS! Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Tue 6 Nov 12

OldBlack says...

I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?
I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS? OldBlack
  • Score: 1

1:52pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true.
The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.
That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix. Hilarion
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Joseph Yossarian says...

OldBlack wrote:
I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?
Less distance to travel for his kids?
less fees?
potential conflict of interest?
Doesn't want to be seen to be getting preferential treatment?
[quote][p][bold]OldBlack[/bold] wrote: I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?[/p][/quote]Less distance to travel for his kids? less fees? potential conflict of interest? Doesn't want to be seen to be getting preferential treatment? Joseph Yossarian
  • Score: -1

1:53pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It just shows how out of touch Simon Jones is when the proposal has the backing of two prominent Labour politicians; Jack Straw who was a shadow Education Spokesman & Lord Adonis who was a Junior Education Minister.

I also fail to see how he can complain about local schools losing out. QEGS lost out when the Direct Grant was removed from them in the first place. The Free Schools system is in this respect a means of righting a wrong.
It just shows how out of touch Simon Jones is when the proposal has the backing of two prominent Labour politicians; Jack Straw who was a shadow Education Spokesman & Lord Adonis who was a Junior Education Minister. I also fail to see how he can complain about local schools losing out. QEGS lost out when the Direct Grant was removed from them in the first place. The Free Schools system is in this respect a means of righting a wrong. Phil Simpson
  • Score: -1

2:00pm Tue 6 Nov 12

midas says...

Excluded again wrote:
I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?
Like fitting loft insullation or solar panels?
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: I run a business. If my sales start falling, can I please apply to the government to pay my customers bills for them?[/p][/quote]Like fitting loft insullation or solar panels? midas
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Tue 6 Nov 12

midas says...

OldBlack wrote:
I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?
Perhaps because hes the Chairman of Governors at QEGS and didn't want people to think his children were getting preferential or unfair treatment because their dad is the CoG?
.
Because he has the money to pay at Bolton and can exercise his freedom to choose?
.
Why does it matter?
[quote][p][bold]OldBlack[/bold] wrote: I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?[/p][/quote]Perhaps because hes the Chairman of Governors at QEGS and didn't want people to think his children were getting preferential or unfair treatment because their dad is the CoG? . Because he has the money to pay at Bolton and can exercise his freedom to choose? . Why does it matter? midas
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

OldBlack wrote:
I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?
What a strange fact to know, and an even stranger fact to state on a local news site.

If you haven't got some other hidden agenda, then I'm the crown prince of Abu Dhabi.
[quote][p][bold]OldBlack[/bold] wrote: I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?[/p][/quote]What a strange fact to know, and an even stranger fact to state on a local news site. If you haven't got some other hidden agenda, then I'm the crown prince of Abu Dhabi. Jack Herer
  • Score: 3

2:17pm Tue 6 Nov 12

mellormoo says...

Hilarion wrote:
That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.
If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn?
[quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.[/p][/quote]If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn? mellormoo
  • Score: 7

2:21pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

mellormoo wrote:
Hilarion wrote:
That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.
If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn?
Westholme, now a boys and girls school.
[quote][p][bold]mellormoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.[/p][/quote]If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn?[/p][/quote]Westholme, now a boys and girls school. Paintbrush
  • Score: -3

2:24pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government? Paintbrush
  • Score: 1

2:45pm Tue 6 Nov 12

oldblacktoo says...

Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
fair point
but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding
If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed
[quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]fair point but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed oldblacktoo
  • Score: -3

2:54pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
They can run a successful business.

It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between.

You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more.

Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda.
[quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]They can run a successful business. It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between. You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more. Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda. Jack Herer
  • Score: 3

3:02pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

Jack Herer wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
They can run a successful business.

It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between.

You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more.

Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda.
More children means there will be a need for more teachers. As anyone running a business knows, wages are the biggest cost. I still don't think the figures add up.
[quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]They can run a successful business. It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between. You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more. Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda.[/p][/quote]More children means there will be a need for more teachers. As anyone running a business knows, wages are the biggest cost. I still don't think the figures add up. Paintbrush
  • Score: 0

3:07pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

oldblacktoo wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
fair point
but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding
If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed
But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same.

A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank.

Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk.

These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers.

Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.
[quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]fair point but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed[/p][/quote]But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same. A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank. Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk. These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers. Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school. Jack Herer
  • Score: 2

3:15pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Joseph Yossarian says...

mellormoo wrote:
Hilarion wrote: That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.
If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn?
Just as mine did. Grew up in a terraced house in accy and went to qegs.

Not many posh kids when I was there.

Good school now open to more kids = good news story.

As a former teacher it strikes me that the union agenda has nowt to do with education.
[quote][p][bold]mellormoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: That's his decision I guess - though I agree that that is very odd if it is true. The present parents might feel a little concerned about opening the doors to mixed ability, but not half as much as they will be concerned about the 'social' mix.[/p][/quote]If you go take a look at QEGS you will find there is already a wide social mix. Many parents have gone without fancy holidays, cars and the like to ensure their kids get a decent education. What is the alternative in Blackburn?[/p][/quote]Just as mine did. Grew up in a terraced house in accy and went to qegs. Not many posh kids when I was there. Good school now open to more kids = good news story. As a former teacher it strikes me that the union agenda has nowt to do with education. Joseph Yossarian
  • Score: 5

3:22pm Tue 6 Nov 12

oldblacktoo says...

Jack Herer wrote:
oldblacktoo wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
fair point
but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding
If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed
But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same.

A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank.

Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk.

These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers.

Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.
I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful
.I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ;
it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance.
I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc..
I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain
[quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]fair point but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed[/p][/quote]But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same. A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank. Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk. These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers. Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.[/p][/quote]I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful .I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ; it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance. I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc.. I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain oldblacktoo
  • Score: 2

3:33pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Paintbrush wrote:
Jack Herer wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
They can run a successful business.

It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between.

You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more.

Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda.
More children means there will be a need for more teachers. As anyone running a business knows, wages are the biggest cost. I still don't think the figures add up.
I appreciate that, I was being facetious with my maths gag. Apologies there.

Look, I'm guessing the figures have been added up and it doesn't spell the end of QEGS. It may even mean jobs being secured and an opportunity to expand. In which case, how can it be bad?

If the figures don't add up then there are problems, but just assuming they don't on a hunch seems petty and pointless.
[quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]They can run a successful business. It's just that in a run down northern town like Blackburn, during the worst financial crisis in most people's lives, customers able to pay £10,200 per pupil are few and far between. You need to go back to school and do your maths it seems - preferably a good school like QEGS - they'd have more money with this change, not less. They currently have 478 kids at £10,200. They are aiming for 1100 kids at £4,500. More kids paying less, earns more than less kids paying more. Are you strange posters all disgruntled parents who want QEGS to stay fee paying and posh or something? I genuinely can't work out your agenda.[/p][/quote]More children means there will be a need for more teachers. As anyone running a business knows, wages are the biggest cost. I still don't think the figures add up.[/p][/quote]I appreciate that, I was being facetious with my maths gag. Apologies there. Look, I'm guessing the figures have been added up and it doesn't spell the end of QEGS. It may even mean jobs being secured and an opportunity to expand. In which case, how can it be bad? If the figures don't add up then there are problems, but just assuming they don't on a hunch seems petty and pointless. Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

3:44pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Anthony A Cooper says...

QEGS was a Direct Grant Grammar School which, like other similar schools enabled bright children, whatever their social background, to receive an academic education. Such schools were major engines of social mobility. unfortunately left wing politicians did not, and still do not believe in academic elitism (although its OK in sport) and did away with the Direct Grant. Worse was to come when secondary education in Blackburn was completely reorganised. The Local Education Authority wanted QEGS to accept pupils from age 14 only, giving the school just 2 years to prepare them for GCSE. QEGS said that they needed at least 3 years to do so and asked to receive pupils at 13+. The LEA would not agree and it was then that QEGS opted out and became an independent fee-paying school. To cap it all, the LEA abandoned its lunatic scheme for transfer at 14+ within 12 months, but by then it was too late. Other schools were similarly affected and many good teachers retired or moved away within 2 or 3 years. At the time I was teaching at St Mary's College and, from my contact with colleagues in other schools know only too well what went on at that time.
QEGS was a Direct Grant Grammar School which, like other similar schools enabled bright children, whatever their social background, to receive an academic education. Such schools were major engines of social mobility. unfortunately left wing politicians did not, and still do not believe in academic elitism (although its OK in sport) and did away with the Direct Grant. Worse was to come when secondary education in Blackburn was completely reorganised. The Local Education Authority wanted QEGS to accept pupils from age 14 only, giving the school just 2 years to prepare them for GCSE. QEGS said that they needed at least 3 years to do so and asked to receive pupils at 13+. The LEA would not agree and it was then that QEGS opted out and became an independent fee-paying school. To cap it all, the LEA abandoned its lunatic scheme for transfer at 14+ within 12 months, but by then it was too late. Other schools were similarly affected and many good teachers retired or moved away within 2 or 3 years. At the time I was teaching at St Mary's College and, from my contact with colleagues in other schools know only too well what went on at that time. Anthony A Cooper
  • Score: 3

3:45pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't the the proposals will work.
I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't the the proposals will work. Paintbrush
  • Score: 0

3:49pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

Corrected: I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't think the proposals will work.
Corrected: I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't think the proposals will work. Paintbrush
  • Score: 0

3:49pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

Corrected: I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't think the proposals will work.
Corrected: I haven't said good or bad, just that I don't think the proposals will work. Paintbrush
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Paintbrush says...

Now I've got hiccups. Sorry!
Now I've got hiccups. Sorry! Paintbrush
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

To be precise about the current social mix at QEGS, ethnically it mirrors that of the state sector as a whole in the town.

Westholme is opening their boys' school a year at a time meaning that there are only year seven boys in it at present which is understandable. What I cannot comprehend though is how it can be described as oversubscribed with just sixteen pupils.

I'm just emphasising a point regarding the demand for the school. I'm sure the person who posted the original comment about demand for the school was referring to the school as a whole but even on that basis, the matter is a moot point. I have heard it said that Westholme's numbers are in decline but they are a few years behind QEGS' in the process.

Anyway, is there such a thing as an oversubscribed selective school? Such a school just has a higher calibre of student than it would if demand were not as high.
To be precise about the current social mix at QEGS, ethnically it mirrors that of the state sector as a whole in the town. Westholme is opening their boys' school a year at a time meaning that there are only year seven boys in it at present which is understandable. What I cannot comprehend though is how it can be described as oversubscribed with just sixteen pupils. I'm just emphasising a point regarding the demand for the school. I'm sure the person who posted the original comment about demand for the school was referring to the school as a whole but even on that basis, the matter is a moot point. I have heard it said that Westholme's numbers are in decline but they are a few years behind QEGS' in the process. Anyway, is there such a thing as an oversubscribed selective school? Such a school just has a higher calibre of student than it would if demand were not as high. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

4:21pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

oldblacktoo wrote:
Jack Herer wrote:
oldblacktoo wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
fair point
but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding
If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed
But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same.

A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank.

Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk.

These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers.

Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.
I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful
.I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ;
it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance.
I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc..
I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain
Unhelpful doesn't mean untrue unfortunately. It would take a liar to deny the snobbery which exists at that level of society.

Do you remember a school called Everton on Heys Lane? It was like the school off Kes. It was really, really rough. It got closed down - I could be wrong but I think as a secondary it was 88. I happened to work with a lad who was in the final year, and he reckoned he was the only one to get a grade C or above, in any subject, in the whole year. No matter how much money authorities threw at it, it still failed. One nutty Labour incentive had a swimming pool built there - the only school county wide probably. It didn't equate with success however.

My point is that some schools probably shouldn't be saved. I appreciate some people may have had fond memories of the place, but it was probably best that Everton was laid to rest as an educational facility.

So there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future.

Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant.

Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society?

Unfortunately with the crazy systems of education we have in place - everyone treated the same, everyone allowed in every school, free schools, academies, etc - that dream of competing with countries like Germany or Singapore seems difficult.

So the best we have is the likes of QEGS opening it's doors to more.
[quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]fair point but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed[/p][/quote]But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same. A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank. Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk. These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers. Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.[/p][/quote]I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful .I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ; it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance. I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc.. I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain[/p][/quote]Unhelpful doesn't mean untrue unfortunately. It would take a liar to deny the snobbery which exists at that level of society. Do you remember a school called Everton on Heys Lane? It was like the school off Kes. It was really, really rough. It got closed down - I could be wrong but I think as a secondary it was 88. I happened to work with a lad who was in the final year, and he reckoned he was the only one to get a grade C or above, in any subject, in the whole year. No matter how much money authorities threw at it, it still failed. One nutty Labour incentive had a swimming pool built there - the only school county wide probably. It didn't equate with success however. My point is that some schools probably shouldn't be saved. I appreciate some people may have had fond memories of the place, but it was probably best that Everton was laid to rest as an educational facility. So there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future. Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant. Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society? Unfortunately with the crazy systems of education we have in place - everyone treated the same, everyone allowed in every school, free schools, academies, etc - that dream of competing with countries like Germany or Singapore seems difficult. So the best we have is the likes of QEGS opening it's doors to more. Jack Herer
  • Score: 1

4:29pm Tue 6 Nov 12

oldblacktoo says...

Jack Herer wrote:
oldblacktoo wrote:
Jack Herer wrote:
oldblacktoo wrote:
Paintbrush wrote:
What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?
fair point
but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding
If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed
But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same.

A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank.

Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk.

These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers.

Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.
I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful
.I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ;
it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance.
I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc..
I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain
Unhelpful doesn't mean untrue unfortunately. It would take a liar to deny the snobbery which exists at that level of society.

Do you remember a school called Everton on Heys Lane? It was like the school off Kes. It was really, really rough. It got closed down - I could be wrong but I think as a secondary it was 88. I happened to work with a lad who was in the final year, and he reckoned he was the only one to get a grade C or above, in any subject, in the whole year. No matter how much money authorities threw at it, it still failed. One nutty Labour incentive had a swimming pool built there - the only school county wide probably. It didn't equate with success however.

My point is that some schools probably shouldn't be saved. I appreciate some people may have had fond memories of the place, but it was probably best that Everton was laid to rest as an educational facility.

So there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future.

Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant.

Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society?

Unfortunately with the crazy systems of education we have in place - everyone treated the same, everyone allowed in every school, free schools, academies, etc - that dream of competing with countries like Germany or Singapore seems difficult.

So the best we have is the likes of QEGS opening it's doors to more.
Got to agree with you
[quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oldblacktoo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paintbrush[/bold] wrote: What bothers me is that Qegs obviously can't run a successful business receiving a £10,200 fee per pupil, how are they going to manage with only £4,500 per pupil from the Government?[/p][/quote]fair point but as an old black as well , it is shocking that the numbers have dropped so dramatically from 1400+ to 400 in 10 years. I know it is expensive and times are hard but there are lots of bursary places at QEGS and the other private day schools locally (Bury Bolton Westholme) are oversubscribed. If the fee paying parents are voting with their feet why will it do any better with state funding If it a school fails in private or state sector it has still failed[/p][/quote]But the definition for failure are completely different for private or state sector schools, so they both haven't failed the same. A state school fails it's pupils. A private school fails it's bank. Let's be honest QEGS probably isn't helped by location either. From it's inception to the glory mill years of Blackburn, it's site was prime real estate for the town. Now you couldn't say the same thing. Not by a long chalk. These things count unfortunately for parents who drive Range Rovers. Out of interest; will you cry the day that QEGS is no longer exclusive and posh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm guessing it's had far more years in it's illustrious history as a free grammer school, than it ever has as a fee paying private school.[/p][/quote]I think your range rover comment is probably unhelpful .I am very aware of the proud history as free grammar school ; it isn't to become a grammar school again as that implies selective entrance. I have had little contact with the school since leaving and have no concern about it being exclusive etc.. I was merely pointing out that it hasn't performed well relative to its traditional rivals recently so unless there happen to be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school not sure what the state sector will gain[/p][/quote]Unhelpful doesn't mean untrue unfortunately. It would take a liar to deny the snobbery which exists at that level of society. Do you remember a school called Everton on Heys Lane? It was like the school off Kes. It was really, really rough. It got closed down - I could be wrong but I think as a secondary it was 88. I happened to work with a lad who was in the final year, and he reckoned he was the only one to get a grade C or above, in any subject, in the whole year. No matter how much money authorities threw at it, it still failed. One nutty Labour incentive had a swimming pool built there - the only school county wide probably. It didn't equate with success however. My point is that some schools probably shouldn't be saved. I appreciate some people may have had fond memories of the place, but it was probably best that Everton was laid to rest as an educational facility. So there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future. Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant. Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society? Unfortunately with the crazy systems of education we have in place - everyone treated the same, everyone allowed in every school, free schools, academies, etc - that dream of competing with countries like Germany or Singapore seems difficult. So the best we have is the likes of QEGS opening it's doors to more.[/p][/quote]Got to agree with you oldblacktoo
  • Score: 4

4:35pm Tue 6 Nov 12

tiojo says...

It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn.
It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn. tiojo
  • Score: -3

4:40pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

4:40pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

4:40pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

4:40pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

4:55pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Phil Simpson wrote:
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
Everton definitely had a swimming pool. I went swimming there. Or canoeing at an outside shot bizarrely; I'm guessing when they got desperate to use the thing.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Simpson[/bold] wrote: It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.[/p][/quote]Everton definitely had a swimming pool. I went swimming there. Or canoeing at an outside shot bizarrely; I'm guessing when they got desperate to use the thing. Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

4:57pm Tue 6 Nov 12

midas says...

tiojo wrote:
It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn.
What are you saying, the parents of (children in) Blackburn should be congratulated for not wanting to provide the best opportunities for their children? only in Blackburn!
[quote][p][bold]tiojo[/bold] wrote: It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn.[/p][/quote]What are you saying, the parents of (children in) Blackburn should be congratulated for not wanting to provide the best opportunities for their children? only in Blackburn! midas
  • Score: 2

4:58pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

The swimming pool at Everton wasn't part of a leisure complex either.
The swimming pool at Everton wasn't part of a leisure complex either. Jack Herer
  • Score: 1

5:00pm Tue 6 Nov 12

oldblacktoo says...

midas wrote:
tiojo wrote:
It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn.
What are you saying, the parents of (children in) Blackburn should be congratulated for not wanting to provide the best opportunities for their children? only in Blackburn!
well said
[quote][p][bold]midas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tiojo[/bold] wrote: It's good to see a private fee paying school established to allow well off parents to buy privilege for their children failing to attract business. Well done the parents of Blackburn.[/p][/quote]What are you saying, the parents of (children in) Blackburn should be congratulated for not wanting to provide the best opportunities for their children? only in Blackburn![/p][/quote]well said oldblacktoo
  • Score: 3

5:03pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

I stand corrected regarding Everton's swimming pool. Why couldn't they put a pool at Pleckgate instead where seven years of kids could use it instead of the four then later five who went to Everton?

Nothing against the good folk who went to Everton but hindsight says that it would have been better in the long run although to be fair, who would have known when Everton was built that it wouldn't last that long. Especially as the Roman Road estate must have been on the cards at the time.
I stand corrected regarding Everton's swimming pool. Why couldn't they put a pool at Pleckgate instead where seven years of kids could use it instead of the four then later five who went to Everton? Nothing against the good folk who went to Everton but hindsight says that it would have been better in the long run although to be fair, who would have known when Everton was built that it wouldn't last that long. Especially as the Roman Road estate must have been on the cards at the time. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

5:52pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

o there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future.

Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant.

Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society?


But, Jack, you are contradicting yourself. You are living in a fools' paradise because you talk about the 600 who will 'benefit' from what QEGS has to offer. That, as we all know, is code for 'the most academic kids' - so that leaves a problem doesn't it? How are QEGS going to find those 600 kids who will 'benefit' if they can't select them?
o there may not be an extra 600 kids in Blackburn without a school, but there are undoubtedly 600 kids from Blackburn who would benefit massively from an education at QEGS, rather than the school which might not be raising them to their full potential; regardless if that school may struggle to exist in the distant future. Besides, I couldn't quote you on figures but I'd strongly suspect that Blackburn has a higher than average birth rate as well, so that 600, over the stepped yearly intake, could very well be the increase in the town anyway and that argument could be irrelevant. Look, I think we would both prefer it if QEGS could just go back to being a grammar school, with purely selective entry. I personally feel that would be the best thing for education in Blackburn. How are we supposed to compete with the world if our most capable students aren't targeted for their worth to society? But, Jack, you are contradicting yourself. You are living in a fools' paradise because you talk about the 600 who will 'benefit' from what QEGS has to offer. That, as we all know, is code for 'the most academic kids' - so that leaves a problem doesn't it? How are QEGS going to find those 600 kids who will 'benefit' if they can't select them? Hilarion
  • Score: 0

6:17pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jack Shrake says...

PFJohnston will return and sort it all out!
PFJohnston will return and sort it all out! Jack Shrake
  • Score: 2

6:40pm Tue 6 Nov 12

scouper says...

It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives.

Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES!

I don't understand why anyone would not support this.
It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives. Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES! I don't understand why anyone would not support this. scouper
  • Score: 1

6:48pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

After all, successful businessmen attract government grants as their businesses warrant them.
After all, successful businessmen attract government grants as their businesses warrant them. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

scouper wrote:
It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives.

Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES!

I don't understand why anyone would not support this.
It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants.
[quote][p][bold]scouper[/bold] wrote: It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives. Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES! I don't understand why anyone would not support this.[/p][/quote]It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants. Hilarion
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Tue 6 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

Wouldn't the best solution be if Qeg's merged with Westholme - better for both in the long term
Wouldn't the best solution be if Qeg's merged with Westholme - better for both in the long term rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: -3

7:34pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

The first comment managed to pack one of the most succinct messages into the fewest words of any posting.

St Wilfrids is a highly successful mixed ability school complete with Sixth Form.

The school has excellent exam results yet nobody comments on them being compromised by accepting applicants of all abilities.

One could argue that it has always been comprehensive so expectations have never been as great as QEGS. However Simon Corns has said that QEGS isn't as selective as it once was. Furthermore common sense should mean that subsequent exam results will be viewed as those of a mixed ability school.
The first comment managed to pack one of the most succinct messages into the fewest words of any posting. St Wilfrids is a highly successful mixed ability school complete with Sixth Form. The school has excellent exam results yet nobody comments on them being compromised by accepting applicants of all abilities. One could argue that it has always been comprehensive so expectations have never been as great as QEGS. However Simon Corns has said that QEGS isn't as selective as it once was. Furthermore common sense should mean that subsequent exam results will be viewed as those of a mixed ability school. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

7:47pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Phil Simpson wrote:
The first comment managed to pack one of the most succinct messages into the fewest words of any posting.

St Wilfrids is a highly successful mixed ability school complete with Sixth Form.

The school has excellent exam results yet nobody comments on them being compromised by accepting applicants of all abilities.

One could argue that it has always been comprehensive so expectations have never been as great as QEGS. However Simon Corns has said that QEGS isn't as selective as it once was. Furthermore common sense should mean that subsequent exam results will be viewed as those of a mixed ability school.
St Wilfred's has its own subtle system of selection - by religion- so it is disingenuous to claim that it is a mixed ability school in that respect since it is common knowledge that such schools have social selection. Ref.- Archbishop Temple, Preston - Hutton GS - Ripley St Thomas.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Simpson[/bold] wrote: The first comment managed to pack one of the most succinct messages into the fewest words of any posting. St Wilfrids is a highly successful mixed ability school complete with Sixth Form. The school has excellent exam results yet nobody comments on them being compromised by accepting applicants of all abilities. One could argue that it has always been comprehensive so expectations have never been as great as QEGS. However Simon Corns has said that QEGS isn't as selective as it once was. Furthermore common sense should mean that subsequent exam results will be viewed as those of a mixed ability school.[/p][/quote]St Wilfred's has its own subtle system of selection - by religion- so it is disingenuous to claim that it is a mixed ability school in that respect since it is common knowledge that such schools have social selection. Ref.- Archbishop Temple, Preston - Hutton GS - Ripley St Thomas. Hilarion
  • Score: 0

8:04pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Oops. I missed out Canon Slade in Bolton, didn't I? Another school where the middle class have colonised by virtue of 'finding God' when their child was in Year 3!
Oops. I missed out Canon Slade in Bolton, didn't I? Another school where the middle class have colonised by virtue of 'finding God' when their child was in Year 3! Hilarion
  • Score: 1

8:05pm Tue 6 Nov 12

scouper says...

Hilarion wrote:
scouper wrote:
It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives.

Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES!

I don't understand why anyone would not support this.
It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants.
And if the school goes under, where does that leave it's character?

Circumstances change and the fittest survive. Hopefully the school's character will also survive.
[quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scouper[/bold] wrote: It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives. Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES! I don't understand why anyone would not support this.[/p][/quote]It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants.[/p][/quote]And if the school goes under, where does that leave it's character? Circumstances change and the fittest survive. Hopefully the school's character will also survive. scouper
  • Score: 0

8:08pm Tue 6 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

Let's face it Pleckgate has a nice new buildings, so has Witton Park and St Wilfred's all paid by us the tax payer. Therefore Qeg's come on the scene wanting government money and fighting for new pupils. Therefore affecting the other three schools ability to be possibly sustainable - so again the politicians are again wasting good money on building new schools which in the long term might struggle, just because Qeg's cannot balance their books. Local and national politicians need to say no as there are enough schools in the area already. Put more money into a smaller amount of schools to improve them and not fund more schools and thus thinning out the pot of money for these too many schools - lots of choice is not always good improve what we have already.
Let's face it Pleckgate has a nice new buildings, so has Witton Park and St Wilfred's all paid by us the tax payer. Therefore Qeg's come on the scene wanting government money and fighting for new pupils. Therefore affecting the other three schools ability to be possibly sustainable - so again the politicians are again wasting good money on building new schools which in the long term might struggle, just because Qeg's cannot balance their books. Local and national politicians need to say no as there are enough schools in the area already. Put more money into a smaller amount of schools to improve them and not fund more schools and thus thinning out the pot of money for these too many schools - lots of choice is not always good improve what we have already. rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: 0

8:18pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

The local schools are damned. If QEGS gets Free School status, they will lose pupils, if it doesn't & it goes down the pan, it will put pressure on them due to having to take in students from a defunct school.
The local schools are damned. If QEGS gets Free School status, they will lose pupils, if it doesn't & it goes down the pan, it will put pressure on them due to having to take in students from a defunct school. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

8:22pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

scouper wrote:
Hilarion wrote:
scouper wrote:
It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives.

Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES!

I don't understand why anyone would not support this.
It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants.
And if the school goes under, where does that leave it's character?

Circumstances change and the fittest survive. Hopefully the school's character will also survive.
I agree that the school's character will be irrelevant if it 'goes under'. But if it can't select, it may have problems replicating the ethos it has presently. A fair banding system means much weaker children as well as children with lots of ability. The social mix will change too.
[quote][p][bold]scouper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scouper[/bold] wrote: It's a sad reality today that too many businesses producing top quality products are struggling. QEGS is no exception & this is a brave & bold move by them to ensure their business (& top quality service) survives. Who benefits from their survival? WE DO, OUR TOWN DOES! I don't understand why anyone would not support this.[/p][/quote]It is true that this is a move to ensure that the business survives, but what will happen to the character of the school? There are ramifications to taking in a broad ability range with no exam to select entrants.[/p][/quote]And if the school goes under, where does that leave it's character? Circumstances change and the fittest survive. Hopefully the school's character will also survive.[/p][/quote]I agree that the school's character will be irrelevant if it 'goes under'. But if it can't select, it may have problems replicating the ethos it has presently. A fair banding system means much weaker children as well as children with lots of ability. The social mix will change too. Hilarion
  • Score: 0

8:35pm Tue 6 Nov 12

scouper says...

Phil Simpson wrote:
The local schools are damned. If QEGS gets Free School status, they will lose pupils, if it doesn't & it goes down the pan, it will put pressure on them due to having to take in students from a defunct school.
Scaremongering a little there Phil.

Qegs will only be filling 600 places initially across 12 or 13 school year groups, so thats unlikely to have a significant impact on the three superschools.

If it were to 'go down the pan', I dare say most would avoid the state offering! Of course many will live out of town anyway.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Simpson[/bold] wrote: The local schools are damned. If QEGS gets Free School status, they will lose pupils, if it doesn't & it goes down the pan, it will put pressure on them due to having to take in students from a defunct school.[/p][/quote]Scaremongering a little there Phil. Qegs will only be filling 600 places initially across 12 or 13 school year groups, so thats unlikely to have a significant impact on the three superschools. If it were to 'go down the pan', I dare say most would avoid the state offering! Of course many will live out of town anyway. scouper
  • Score: 0

8:54pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

Sorry. I must have been taken in by Simon Jones' comments!

The only losers will be poor schools so problems there.
Sorry. I must have been taken in by Simon Jones' comments! The only losers will be poor schools so problems there. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

9:09pm Tue 6 Nov 12

lencho says...

Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise.
Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing.
Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime.
Good riddance QEGS .
Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS . lencho
  • Score: -7

9:59pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Your immature and chippy attitude confirms the school's estimation of your abilities.
Your immature and chippy attitude confirms the school's estimation of your abilities. Hilarion
  • Score: 5

10:05pm Tue 6 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

By opting out of fee paying students and asking for what is actually a government bail out, why doesn't Qeg's make redundancies like most local schools and colleges have had to do over the recent years - these local establishments did not have a choice but to get of staff - get real Qeg's and live within your means - cut your cloth appropriately and don't opt for tax payer bail out
By opting out of fee paying students and asking for what is actually a government bail out, why doesn't Qeg's make redundancies like most local schools and colleges have had to do over the recent years - these local establishments did not have a choice but to get of staff - get real Qeg's and live within your means - cut your cloth appropriately and don't opt for tax payer bail out rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: -3

10:15pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

There is no virtue in turning down taxpayers money & making people redundant instead.

Why is there such a stigma in this country about aid from the taxpayer? Is it borne out of a reluctance to pay tax or the British people's obsessing that everything that receives taxpayer's money is a bailed out lame duck?
There is no virtue in turning down taxpayers money & making people redundant instead. Why is there such a stigma in this country about aid from the taxpayer? Is it borne out of a reluctance to pay tax or the British people's obsessing that everything that receives taxpayer's money is a bailed out lame duck? Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

10:28pm Tue 6 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

It's not the fact that that there's nothing wrong with bail outs in certain circumstances, it's the fact that most local schools and colleges have had reduced income from the government and have had to make redundancies and huge budget cuts which has affected their resources and students - whereas Qeg's have or are going to avoid that route and they will probably come out of all this smiling - it's not fair
It's not the fact that that there's nothing wrong with bail outs in certain circumstances, it's the fact that most local schools and colleges have had reduced income from the government and have had to make redundancies and huge budget cuts which has affected their resources and students - whereas Qeg's have or are going to avoid that route and they will probably come out of all this smiling - it's not fair rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: -2

10:53pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Good Golly Miss Molly says...

We sent our kids to QEGS but removed them after a few years as were really unhappy with it. Many did at the time and it appears this continued. Mr Corns was a disagreeable man who seemed unable to see the problems looming on the horizon.

I can't understand why they haven't just reverted to being a free grammar where they select pupils thus giving the talented and gifted a real leg up - of all backgrounds. People kill themselves to get their kids in Clitheroe or Lancaster so they could have easily have found the extra 600 pupils from across Lancashire.
We sent our kids to QEGS but removed them after a few years as were really unhappy with it. Many did at the time and it appears this continued. Mr Corns was a disagreeable man who seemed unable to see the problems looming on the horizon. I can't understand why they haven't just reverted to being a free grammar where they select pupils thus giving the talented and gifted a real leg up - of all backgrounds. People kill themselves to get their kids in Clitheroe or Lancaster so they could have easily have found the extra 600 pupils from across Lancashire. Good Golly Miss Molly
  • Score: 1

10:54pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools?
Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools? Hilarion
  • Score: 0

10:57pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Good Golly Miss Molly says...

lencho wrote:
Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise.
Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing.
Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime.
Good riddance QEGS .
Confirming the reasons the why you failed - twice. Feeling so bitter after 45 years must be a terrible burden.
[quote][p][bold]lencho[/bold] wrote: Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS .[/p][/quote]Confirming the reasons the why you failed - twice. Feeling so bitter after 45 years must be a terrible burden. Good Golly Miss Molly
  • Score: 5

11:08pm Tue 6 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

Hilarion wrote:
Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools?
Didn't Beardwood have to close and according to the LET, last year, St Mary's had to make some redundancies due to reduced funding I believe
[quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools?[/p][/quote]Didn't Beardwood have to close and according to the LET, last year, St Mary's had to make some redundancies due to reduced funding I believe rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: 0

11:45pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Good Golly Miss Molly wrote:
We sent our kids to QEGS but removed them after a few years as were really unhappy with it. Many did at the time and it appears this continued. Mr Corns was a disagreeable man who seemed unable to see the problems looming on the horizon.

I can't understand why they haven't just reverted to being a free grammar where they select pupils thus giving the talented and gifted a real leg up - of all backgrounds. People kill themselves to get their kids in Clitheroe or Lancaster so they could have easily have found the extra 600 pupils from across Lancashire.
I can understand it - because they are not allowed to. The government will not allow new grammar schools to be established - only expansion of existing ones. Clitheroe and Lancaster were very very lucky to survive the comprehensivisation of the 1970s in Lancashire. They are an historical accident.
[quote][p][bold]Good Golly Miss Molly[/bold] wrote: We sent our kids to QEGS but removed them after a few years as were really unhappy with it. Many did at the time and it appears this continued. Mr Corns was a disagreeable man who seemed unable to see the problems looming on the horizon. I can't understand why they haven't just reverted to being a free grammar where they select pupils thus giving the talented and gifted a real leg up - of all backgrounds. People kill themselves to get their kids in Clitheroe or Lancaster so they could have easily have found the extra 600 pupils from across Lancashire.[/p][/quote]I can understand it - because they are not allowed to. The government will not allow new grammar schools to be established - only expansion of existing ones. Clitheroe and Lancaster were very very lucky to survive the comprehensivisation of the 1970s in Lancashire. They are an historical accident. Hilarion
  • Score: 2

11:47pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

rogerthecabinboy wrote:
Hilarion wrote:
Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools?
Didn't Beardwood have to close and according to the LET, last year, St Mary's had to make some redundancies due to reduced funding I believe
Beardwood was earmarked for closure to be re-sited elsewhere because of a 210 million pound rebuilding programme - so where are the cost-cutting and redundancies there?
[quote][p][bold]rogerthecabinboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: Where are these schools with massive budget cuts and redundancies? Do you mean the local authority schools with interactive whiteboards and teacher laptops which have had millions of pounds of rebuilding money thrown at them? Those schools?[/p][/quote]Didn't Beardwood have to close and according to the LET, last year, St Mary's had to make some redundancies due to reduced funding I believe[/p][/quote]Beardwood was earmarked for closure to be re-sited elsewhere because of a 210 million pound rebuilding programme - so where are the cost-cutting and redundancies there? Hilarion
  • Score: 0

11:48pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jones9 says...

Well done and congratulations, Mr Corns!
You have single handedly destroyed one of the best institutions in Lancashire. For the past 500 years, the school survived the Black Plague, Two World Wars, The Great Depression and after just 4 years with you at the reign - IT HAS FAILED - WELL DONE! Hope you're proud. GET RID OF HIM GOVERNORS.
Well done and congratulations, Mr Corns! You have single handedly destroyed one of the best institutions in Lancashire. For the past 500 years, the school survived the Black Plague, Two World Wars, The Great Depression and after just 4 years with you at the reign - IT HAS FAILED - WELL DONE! Hope you're proud. GET RID OF HIM GOVERNORS. Jones9
  • Score: -3

11:55pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Jones9 says...

Why did the governors replace a kind and intelligent headmaster with Mr Corns

Never trust a small man....
Why did the governors replace a kind and intelligent headmaster with Mr Corns Never trust a small man.... Jones9
  • Score: 1

12:28am Wed 7 Nov 12

Karenlou says...

I think he personal comments about Mr Corns are unnecessary and uncalled for. My son went there and I was always impressed by the pastoral care, the discipline and the work ethic they instil into the kids. For the record, we are working class, as were many of the parents there. It's a myth that all the pupils there are 'posh' - many are from ordinary backgrounds and have to make sacrifices. My child wasn't an academic high flier either - just a moderately intelligent kid, but they do seem able to get the best out of the pupils, whatever their ability. I think the drop in pupil numbers is largely due to the recession, and the crazy economic policies of this government which have severely affected the finances of many families. If was always impressed with their pastoral care too, and the fact that the teachers are prepared to give up their time readily to help children who are struggling with anything. If QEGS are able to maintain those standards as a fee school, while giving more children the opportunity to attend, that can only be a good thing. I don't think purely academic selection is the be all and end all - the attitude of the child and parents, and a willingness to support the school, and encourage the child are just as important.
I think he personal comments about Mr Corns are unnecessary and uncalled for. My son went there and I was always impressed by the pastoral care, the discipline and the work ethic they instil into the kids. For the record, we are working class, as were many of the parents there. It's a myth that all the pupils there are 'posh' - many are from ordinary backgrounds and have to make sacrifices. My child wasn't an academic high flier either - just a moderately intelligent kid, but they do seem able to get the best out of the pupils, whatever their ability. I think the drop in pupil numbers is largely due to the recession, and the crazy economic policies of this government which have severely affected the finances of many families. If was always impressed with their pastoral care too, and the fact that the teachers are prepared to give up their time readily to help children who are struggling with anything. If QEGS are able to maintain those standards as a fee school, while giving more children the opportunity to attend, that can only be a good thing. I don't think purely academic selection is the be all and end all - the attitude of the child and parents, and a willingness to support the school, and encourage the child are just as important. Karenlou
  • Score: 3

12:32am Wed 7 Nov 12

Karenlou says...

Sorry - should've said 'free' school - not 'fee'. It is late!
Sorry - should've said 'free' school - not 'fee'. It is late! Karenlou
  • Score: 2

12:38am Wed 7 Nov 12

Hetty3 says...

Jack Herer wrote:
Phil Simpson wrote:
It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally.

The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built.

The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board.

To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.
Everton definitely had a swimming pool. I went swimming there. Or canoeing at an outside shot bizarrely; I'm guessing when they got desperate to use the thing.
I didn't think Everton had a swimming pool and it wasn't off heys lane. It was off Roman Road (near Manxman road or somewhere). They school of heys lane was a behavioural problem school and the swimming pool was once called Blackburn House but then became the Ashleigh swimming pool when I went for swimming lessons with my secondary school.
[quote][p][bold]Jack Herer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Simpson[/bold] wrote: It wasn't Everton that had a swimming pool tagged on but Shadsworth High which Everton merged with to form Queens Park High incidentally. The County Borough of Blackburn had a somewhat utopian idea of placing a leisure centre & a library next to its high schools. Being a former secondary modern, Shadsworth had been built as an 11-15 school so it was extended for the raising of the school leaving age & a leisure centre, including a swimming pool, & library were also built. The following year, The County Borough of Blackburn was absorbed into Lancashire & the idea was shelved, presumably on cost grounds since no local authority would be able to afford such a scheme across the board. To be honest, Blackburn couldn't really afford the first of these schemes. The buildings were that poorly built that they were in a far worse state by the time the school closed than the original building which opened fifteen years earlier.[/p][/quote]Everton definitely had a swimming pool. I went swimming there. Or canoeing at an outside shot bizarrely; I'm guessing when they got desperate to use the thing.[/p][/quote]I didn't think Everton had a swimming pool and it wasn't off heys lane. It was off Roman Road (near Manxman road or somewhere). They school of heys lane was a behavioural problem school and the swimming pool was once called Blackburn House but then became the Ashleigh swimming pool when I went for swimming lessons with my secondary school. Hetty3
  • Score: 0

6:17am Wed 7 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

I couldn't agree more with karenlou. School numbers have been I decline since 1997 & it neither the fault of Simon Corns nor his predecessor David Hempsall. The responsibility lies in the hands of the previous Labour government who scrapped the Assisted Places scheme which was bound to have an adverse effect in Blackburn.

I meet Simon Corns on five occasions year in year out which, I dare say, is more often then most. I know him to be a caring man of great integrity who has the best interests of the school had heart. Granted, it took him a while to be won round by the notion of becoming a free school but he did in the end & those of us with an interest in the school have to thank him for that.
I couldn't agree more with karenlou. School numbers have been I decline since 1997 & it neither the fault of Simon Corns nor his predecessor David Hempsall. The responsibility lies in the hands of the previous Labour government who scrapped the Assisted Places scheme which was bound to have an adverse effect in Blackburn. I meet Simon Corns on five occasions year in year out which, I dare say, is more often then most. I know him to be a caring man of great integrity who has the best interests of the school had heart. Granted, it took him a while to be won round by the notion of becoming a free school but he did in the end & those of us with an interest in the school have to thank him for that. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 2

8:36am Wed 7 Nov 12

Richard John Bennett says...

These personal insults directed at Simon Corns are unfair and wholly inaccurate. As A former Chairman of The Old Blackburnians I got to know him well. He is a man of integrity , honesty and his enthusiasm for the school and its success was plain for all to see. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the change in status of the school do not insult Mr Corns. Criticism of the abolition of Direct Grant status may be more appropriate.

Richard Bennett Former Chairman OBA
These personal insults directed at Simon Corns are unfair and wholly inaccurate. As A former Chairman of The Old Blackburnians I got to know him well. He is a man of integrity , honesty and his enthusiasm for the school and its success was plain for all to see. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the change in status of the school do not insult Mr Corns. Criticism of the abolition of Direct Grant status may be more appropriate. Richard Bennett Former Chairman OBA Richard John Bennett
  • Score: 2

9:09am Wed 7 Nov 12

mellormoo says...

Well said Richard!
My son has been happy during his time at QEGS and will be sad to leave next year.
We need to support the school not slag them off. They are trying to make the best of a situation beyond their control before it becomes critical.
Well said Richard! My son has been happy during his time at QEGS and will be sad to leave next year. We need to support the school not slag them off. They are trying to make the best of a situation beyond their control before it becomes critical. mellormoo
  • Score: 2

9:23am Wed 7 Nov 12

Roy Drage says...

lencho wrote:
Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise.
Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing.
Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime.
Good riddance QEGS .
Unfortunately, I did pass the entrance exam and proceeded to spend 7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism.

Admittedly, this was the early 80s and things may have changed since, but I for one have no affection for this place.

This change will drive the many parents who WANT to pay (for fear of losing kudos) to other fee-paying schools and QEGS will gradually wither on the vine. It doesn't even have competitive facilities anymore, compared to some of BwD's new schools.

West Park Road really would make a lovely housing estate with splendid views over the cricket ground and park.

No tears will be shed when the bulldozers move in.
[quote][p][bold]lencho[/bold] wrote: Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS .[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, I did pass the entrance exam and proceeded to spend 7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism. Admittedly, this was the early 80s and things may have changed since, but I for one have no affection for this place. This change will drive the many parents who WANT to pay (for fear of losing kudos) to other fee-paying schools and QEGS will gradually wither on the vine. It doesn't even have competitive facilities anymore, compared to some of BwD's new schools. West Park Road really would make a lovely housing estate with splendid views over the cricket ground and park. No tears will be shed when the bulldozers move in. Roy Drage
  • Score: -4

9:49am Wed 7 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Roy - I presume that your final comment is a personal one, not a universal one. I certainly don't agree with it. I hope QEGS succeeds in its new venture. But once its hands are tied on selection, that it is a problem. I agree with Karenlou that academic selection is not the be all and end all, but without it, how can QEGS subsequently ensure that it is populated by committed and diligent parents and pupils? It will not be allowed to cherry pick which even the C of E schools can do (by insisting on parental reference by clergy).
Roy - I presume that your final comment is a personal one, not a universal one. I certainly don't agree with it. I hope QEGS succeeds in its new venture. But once its hands are tied on selection, that it is a problem. I agree with Karenlou that academic selection is not the be all and end all, but without it, how can QEGS subsequently ensure that it is populated by committed and diligent parents and pupils? It will not be allowed to cherry pick which even the C of E schools can do (by insisting on parental reference by clergy). Hilarion
  • Score: 1

10:31am Wed 7 Nov 12

ladysal says...

Hilarion wrote:
Roy - I presume that your final comment is a personal one, not a universal one. I certainly don't agree with it. I hope QEGS succeeds in its new venture. But once its hands are tied on selection, that it is a problem. I agree with Karenlou that academic selection is not the be all and end all, but without it, how can QEGS subsequently ensure that it is populated by committed and diligent parents and pupils? It will not be allowed to cherry pick which even the C of E schools can do (by insisting on parental reference by clergy).
I'm not sure what you are saying in your last sentence. Do you truly believe that all children of Christian parents, be they C of E or RC are intelligent? I am sure that these families have their fair share of less intelligent children who also attend religious schools. There is an ethos within these schools which promotes high achievement which SHOULD be able to transcend religious norms. QEGS probably has it, but the question is whether they can keep that ethos once the ability to select is removed.
Maybe, one needs to look to the parents. What are parents with Christian beliefs doing for their children which ensures that they achieve to the best of their ability? A belief in the school? A mindset which promotes learning and a desire to do their best? A mindset which means that everyone takes repsonsibility for their behaviour / progress rather than blaming their problems on everything from the teachers, to the schools, to society, to the government.
Seems to me that if QEGS can continue to promote that, with the assistance of the parents then they should retain their current standing as a high performing school.
[quote][p][bold]Hilarion[/bold] wrote: Roy - I presume that your final comment is a personal one, not a universal one. I certainly don't agree with it. I hope QEGS succeeds in its new venture. But once its hands are tied on selection, that it is a problem. I agree with Karenlou that academic selection is not the be all and end all, but without it, how can QEGS subsequently ensure that it is populated by committed and diligent parents and pupils? It will not be allowed to cherry pick which even the C of E schools can do (by insisting on parental reference by clergy).[/p][/quote]I'm not sure what you are saying in your last sentence. Do you truly believe that all children of Christian parents, be they C of E or RC are intelligent? I am sure that these families have their fair share of less intelligent children who also attend religious schools. There is an ethos within these schools which promotes high achievement which SHOULD be able to transcend religious norms. QEGS probably has it, but the question is whether they can keep that ethos once the ability to select is removed. Maybe, one needs to look to the parents. What are parents with Christian beliefs doing for their children which ensures that they achieve to the best of their ability? A belief in the school? A mindset which promotes learning and a desire to do their best? A mindset which means that everyone takes repsonsibility for their behaviour / progress rather than blaming their problems on everything from the teachers, to the schools, to society, to the government. Seems to me that if QEGS can continue to promote that, with the assistance of the parents then they should retain their current standing as a high performing school. ladysal
  • Score: 0

10:42am Wed 7 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Well, ladysal. I'm sure you would prefer to ascribe the success of C of E schools (and RC in some circumstances, although these latter tend to be more mixed in terms of class) to something special in the water of these places, but that's a blind an uncomfortable truth. But there's no real secret. The aspirational middle class (of whom there are more in the established church) know that a free place in a church school will be their reward if they show up to church for a few years. Genetics would suggest that these pushy m/c parents will have brighter and more motivated kids by and large. And thus a virtuous circle is created with all the motivated and committed parents sending their kids to the same school. Poor Sharon of Shadsworth doesn't get to go to St Wilf's because her mum won't get up on a Sunday - so very few children from the wrong side of the tracks get to feed at the Church of England's academic top-table. Simples.
But QEGS will not be a church school, so what's their recipe going to be for social engineering?
Well, ladysal. I'm sure you would prefer to ascribe the success of C of E schools (and RC in some circumstances, although these latter tend to be more mixed in terms of class) to something special in the water of these places, but that's a blind an uncomfortable truth. But there's no real secret. The aspirational middle class (of whom there are more in the established church) know that a free place in a church school will be their reward if they show up to church for a few years. Genetics would suggest that these pushy m/c parents will have brighter and more motivated kids by and large. And thus a virtuous circle is created with all the motivated and committed parents sending their kids to the same school. Poor Sharon of Shadsworth doesn't get to go to St Wilf's because her mum won't get up on a Sunday - so very few children from the wrong side of the tracks get to feed at the Church of England's academic top-table. Simples. But QEGS will not be a church school, so what's their recipe going to be for social engineering? Hilarion
  • Score: 0

12:39pm Wed 7 Nov 12

Joseph Yossarian says...

Roy Drage wrote:
lencho wrote: Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS .
Unfortunately, I did pass the entrance exam and proceeded to spend 7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism. Admittedly, this was the early 80s and things may have changed since, but I for one have no affection for this place. This change will drive the many parents who WANT to pay (for fear of losing kudos) to other fee-paying schools and QEGS will gradually wither on the vine. It doesn't even have competitive facilities anymore, compared to some of BwD's new schools. West Park Road really would make a lovely housing estate with splendid views over the cricket ground and park. No tears will be shed when the bulldozers move in.
""7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism"""

Sounds like most schools.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Drage[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lencho[/bold] wrote: Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS .[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, I did pass the entrance exam and proceeded to spend 7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism. Admittedly, this was the early 80s and things may have changed since, but I for one have no affection for this place. This change will drive the many parents who WANT to pay (for fear of losing kudos) to other fee-paying schools and QEGS will gradually wither on the vine. It doesn't even have competitive facilities anymore, compared to some of BwD's new schools. West Park Road really would make a lovely housing estate with splendid views over the cricket ground and park. No tears will be shed when the bulldozers move in.[/p][/quote]""7 miserable years in the care of largely humourless staff and a system of petty rules and perceived elitism""" Sounds like most schools. Joseph Yossarian
  • Score: 2

2:44pm Wed 7 Nov 12

chadders2000 says...

Blackburn's only Grammar School, makes it sound like it has hundreds
Blackburn's only Grammar School, makes it sound like it has hundreds chadders2000
  • Score: 0

10:18pm Wed 7 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

QEGS recipe for continuing social mobility, as I prefer to call it rather than social engineering, will be to attract student with its values. Those who don't subscribe to its values won't be attracted.

There are many people at present who agree with QEGS' vision & values but few who can afford to send their children to the school. Remove that barrier & I'm sure both the school & its students will prosper.
QEGS recipe for continuing social mobility, as I prefer to call it rather than social engineering, will be to attract student with its values. Those who don't subscribe to its values won't be attracted. There are many people at present who agree with QEGS' vision & values but few who can afford to send their children to the school. Remove that barrier & I'm sure both the school & its students will prosper. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

11:09pm Wed 7 Nov 12

Tax paying teacher says...

Colleagues at my school are furious that after years of upheavel in our secondary and some primary schools due to closures, relocations mergers etc we now face an uncertain future due to the decision of this private school to pull itself out of it's self created mire due to it's failure to attract enough "customers" to keep it viable.
The idea of free schools was to create demand in areas where allegedly the selection of schools was poor. You can hardly say this of Blackurn. Pleckgate is amazing, Witton fantastic, Wilfreds, Our Lady and St John, The Islamic schools etc. fantastic schools, great teachers and facilities and with spare places.
I feel as though this idea is just to protect the salaries of the SMT. Remember this school has tried everything to survive, taking girls, promoting co-ed opening a nursery, they have failed to address their decline with these initiatives will they make a mess of this latest scheme?
To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous on the radio. First of all stating he was behind the idea because it would benefit local children, then in the most two faced back tracking manner stating it won'ty harm teaching staff in local schools as the pupils would be coming from outside the town!
make your mind up Jack.
Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one to the limit with our union. It is the line in the sand, the straw that breaks the camels back.
We will be lobbying to stop this ludicrous smash and grab project before it gets of the ground.
Colleagues at my school are furious that after years of upheavel in our secondary and some primary schools due to closures, relocations mergers etc we now face an uncertain future due to the decision of this private school to pull itself out of it's self created mire due to it's failure to attract enough "customers" to keep it viable. The idea of free schools was to create demand in areas where allegedly the selection of schools was poor. You can hardly say this of Blackurn. Pleckgate is amazing, Witton fantastic, Wilfreds, Our Lady and St John, The Islamic schools etc. fantastic schools, great teachers and facilities and with spare places. I feel as though this idea is just to protect the salaries of the SMT. Remember this school has tried everything to survive, taking girls, promoting co-ed opening a nursery, they have failed to address their decline with these initiatives will they make a mess of this latest scheme? To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous on the radio. First of all stating he was behind the idea because it would benefit local children, then in the most two faced back tracking manner stating it won'ty harm teaching staff in local schools as the pupils would be coming from outside the town! make your mind up Jack. Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one to the limit with our union. It is the line in the sand, the straw that breaks the camels back. We will be lobbying to stop this ludicrous smash and grab project before it gets of the ground. Tax paying teacher
  • Score: -2

11:17pm Wed 7 Nov 12

DGower says...

I am amazed that Jack Straw is backing a truly Conservative phenomenon of Free Schools. Surely this is not towing the party line Jack!
I am amazed that Jack Straw is backing a truly Conservative phenomenon of Free Schools. Surely this is not towing the party line Jack! DGower
  • Score: 0

11:19pm Wed 7 Nov 12

DGower says...

By the way, Beardwood was not "re-sited" as someone suggested earlier. It was completely closed down with 50 redundancies.
By the way, Beardwood was not "re-sited" as someone suggested earlier. It was completely closed down with 50 redundancies. DGower
  • Score: 0

11:21pm Wed 7 Nov 12

DGower says...

Furthermore, there is no guarantee that Gove will grant QEGS Free School status. Why would the Tories financially support yet another Free School in a Labour stronghold. We already have 3 Free Schools open/soon to open in the town.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee that Gove will grant QEGS Free School status. Why would the Tories financially support yet another Free School in a Labour stronghold. We already have 3 Free Schools open/soon to open in the town. DGower
  • Score: 0

12:26am Thu 8 Nov 12

Hilarion says...

Tax-paying teacher has surely demolished his/her own argument by pointing out how the amazing and fantastic schools like Witton, Wilfs and Pleckgate will be serious contenders to QEGS due to their amazing fantastic-ness. Indeed, their obvious amazingness should therefore sound the death knell of QEGS since no one will want to choose it over the amazing fantastic schools which already exist. Surely the amazing and fantastic schools will relish their inevitable victory in any competition.
Tax-paying teacher has surely demolished his/her own argument by pointing out how the amazing and fantastic schools like Witton, Wilfs and Pleckgate will be serious contenders to QEGS due to their amazing fantastic-ness. Indeed, their obvious amazingness should therefore sound the death knell of QEGS since no one will want to choose it over the amazing fantastic schools which already exist. Surely the amazing and fantastic schools will relish their inevitable victory in any competition. Hilarion
  • Score: 1

4:53pm Thu 8 Nov 12

Plasticbertrand says...

I moved in to the Ribble Valley because I did not want my children being educated at any of the fantastic, amazing schools named by the Tax-Paying teacher. Moreover I wanted them to be in a classroom, free from extreme religious views and cultural differences. I think it is therefore time to face the facts that QEGS is in the Islamic heart of Blackburn and is likely to be a Muslim accademy in the near future.
I moved in to the Ribble Valley because I did not want my children being educated at any of the fantastic, amazing schools named by the Tax-Paying teacher. Moreover I wanted them to be in a classroom, free from extreme religious views and cultural differences. I think it is therefore time to face the facts that QEGS is in the Islamic heart of Blackburn and is likely to be a Muslim accademy in the near future. Plasticbertrand
  • Score: -4

4:55pm Thu 8 Nov 12

Plasticbertrand says...

I moved in to the Ribble Valley because I did not want my children being educated at any of the fantastic, amazing schools named by the Tax-Paying teacher. Moreover I wanted them to be in a classroom, free from extreme religious views and cultural differences. I think it is therefore time to face the facts that QEGS is in the Islamic heart of Blackburn and is likely to be a Muslim accademy in the near future.
I moved in to the Ribble Valley because I did not want my children being educated at any of the fantastic, amazing schools named by the Tax-Paying teacher. Moreover I wanted them to be in a classroom, free from extreme religious views and cultural differences. I think it is therefore time to face the facts that QEGS is in the Islamic heart of Blackburn and is likely to be a Muslim accademy in the near future. Plasticbertrand
  • Score: -3

8:19pm Thu 8 Nov 12

Tax paying teacher says...

The schools I have mentioned are all fantastic schools with motivated staff and excellent facilities because we are coping NOW with the pupils that QUEGS will soon have to take. Children from deprived back grounds who see school as a dumping ground, pupils who live amongst gangs and drug dealers who they look to as role models, pupils with behavioural problems etc etc etc we take them and work ever so hard to turn them into good kids with some aims in life; I am not sure that the staff at QUEGS will know what will hit them.
If these pupils are not wellcomed at QUEGS why should the people of that area of town put up with more traffic congestion, more dealers trying to entice "customers" into the park and why as tax payers should we fund the upgrade of a rather ram shackle collection of old buildings?
I wonder if jack Straw will become a governor? He seems mighty keen on a tory initiative.
Our union is not going to let this go ahead without a fight, not just for us but for the pupils and parents of Blackburn.
To close and my last words on the subject a friend of mine lives in the West View area, apparently their recent open day/evening was very poorly attended, do you honestly think they would contemplate taking in pupils from the nearby streets and estates if the 4x4 brigade from the Ribble Valley and surrounding areas had turned up in droves to sign up? If they are so keen to take working class children from working class areas why did they not apply to go into the state sector when they were booming afew years ago?
They want our taxes but not our difficult pupils, please remember that.
The schools I have mentioned are all fantastic schools with motivated staff and excellent facilities because we are coping NOW with the pupils that QUEGS will soon have to take. Children from deprived back grounds who see school as a dumping ground, pupils who live amongst gangs and drug dealers who they look to as role models, pupils with behavioural problems etc etc etc we take them and work ever so hard to turn them into good kids with some aims in life; I am not sure that the staff at QUEGS will know what will hit them. If these pupils are not wellcomed at QUEGS why should the people of that area of town put up with more traffic congestion, more dealers trying to entice "customers" into the park and why as tax payers should we fund the upgrade of a rather ram shackle collection of old buildings? I wonder if jack Straw will become a governor? He seems mighty keen on a tory initiative. Our union is not going to let this go ahead without a fight, not just for us but for the pupils and parents of Blackburn. To close and my last words on the subject a friend of mine lives in the West View area, apparently their recent open day/evening was very poorly attended, do you honestly think they would contemplate taking in pupils from the nearby streets and estates if the 4x4 brigade from the Ribble Valley and surrounding areas had turned up in droves to sign up? If they are so keen to take working class children from working class areas why did they not apply to go into the state sector when they were booming afew years ago? They want our taxes but not our difficult pupils, please remember that. Tax paying teacher
  • Score: -2

8:46pm Thu 8 Nov 12

Plasticbertrand says...

The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.
The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn. Plasticbertrand
  • Score: -5

9:25pm Thu 8 Nov 12

jasper70 says...

OldBlack wrote:
I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?
Maybe he knew QEGS was doomed. My sister sends her kids to Bolton School and she is always telling me how well it is doing - a new Infant and Junior School and they are currently building a new Sixth Form Centre.
[quote][p][bold]OldBlack[/bold] wrote: I believe Jeremy Gorick - Chairman of Governors - sends his children to Bolton School. Why does he not send them to QEGS?[/p][/quote]Maybe he knew QEGS was doomed. My sister sends her kids to Bolton School and she is always telling me how well it is doing - a new Infant and Junior School and they are currently building a new Sixth Form Centre. jasper70
  • Score: -2

10:29pm Thu 8 Nov 12

rosie+4 says...

Plasticbertrand wrote:
The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.
Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt.

Overall the move is good for all in my view
[quote][p][bold]Plasticbertrand[/bold] wrote: The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.[/p][/quote]Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt. Overall the move is good for all in my view rosie+4
  • Score: 2

10:50pm Thu 8 Nov 12

rogerthecabinboy says...

rosie+4 wrote:
Plasticbertrand wrote:
The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.
Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt.

Overall the move is good for all in my view
If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then?
[quote][p][bold]rosie+4[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plasticbertrand[/bold] wrote: The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.[/p][/quote]Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt. Overall the move is good for all in my view[/p][/quote]If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then? rogerthecabinboy
  • Score: 0

10:55pm Thu 8 Nov 12

rosie+4 says...

rogerthecabinboy wrote:
rosie+4 wrote:
Plasticbertrand wrote:
The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.
Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt.

Overall the move is good for all in my view
If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then?
My first point is reiterated by your statement! Nothing further to add.
[quote][p][bold]rogerthecabinboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rosie+4[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plasticbertrand[/bold] wrote: The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.[/p][/quote]Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt. Overall the move is good for all in my view[/p][/quote]If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then?[/p][/quote]My first point is reiterated by your statement! Nothing further to add. rosie+4
  • Score: 1

11:05pm Thu 8 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

I don't think QEGS need sort themselves about parents treating QEGS as a dumping ground as surely such people just use the nearest school. Considering the school is bordered on one side by a park, surely that means that there are less people that are able to do that than many schools.

I don't know where Tax Paying Teacher gets his facts from but he's implying that QEGS will get extra money for capital expenditure projects, they won't. They'll be getting the usual per pupil allocation. Nor should is concern them as to the buildings are not ram shackle as said teacher claimed. QEGS has been undergoing capital expenditure projects for the past sixty years & the place isn't a Forth Rail Bridge in the buildings erected back then aren't due for demolition as they have been well maintained.

I have it on authority from somebody who works for Balfour Beatty that BSF Schools have a design life of twenty five years and they may have the odd drama studio here & there but if successful, QEGS would be the only non-fee paying school with its own swimming pool.
I don't think QEGS need sort themselves about parents treating QEGS as a dumping ground as surely such people just use the nearest school. Considering the school is bordered on one side by a park, surely that means that there are less people that are able to do that than many schools. I don't know where Tax Paying Teacher gets his facts from but he's implying that QEGS will get extra money for capital expenditure projects, they won't. They'll be getting the usual per pupil allocation. Nor should is concern them as to the buildings are not ram shackle as said teacher claimed. QEGS has been undergoing capital expenditure projects for the past sixty years & the place isn't a Forth Rail Bridge in the buildings erected back then aren't due for demolition as they have been well maintained. I have it on authority from somebody who works for Balfour Beatty that BSF Schools have a design life of twenty five years and they may have the odd drama studio here & there but if successful, QEGS would be the only non-fee paying school with its own swimming pool. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 1

12:19am Fri 9 Nov 12

Karenlou says...

Very interesting discussion, and (apart from a couple of personal and racist comments), on the whole well balanced. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.
Very interesting discussion, and (apart from a couple of personal and racist comments), on the whole well balanced. It will be interesting to see how things pan out. Karenlou
  • Score: 0

5:27am Fri 9 Nov 12

USOB86 says...

Disappointing, the board and headmaster got an F, shame for the thousands of OBs and all the current students.
Disappointing, the board and headmaster got an F, shame for the thousands of OBs and all the current students. USOB86
  • Score: -1

6:07am Fri 9 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

It's more of a shame for the thousands of OB's parents who shelled out thousands of pounds as their children were of the wrong era & also for those who didn't pass their entrance exam.
It's more of a shame for the thousands of OB's parents who shelled out thousands of pounds as their children were of the wrong era & also for those who didn't pass their entrance exam. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 0

9:11am Fri 9 Nov 12

Plasticbertrand says...

rosie+4 wrote:
rogerthecabinboy wrote:
rosie+4 wrote:
Plasticbertrand wrote:
The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.
Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt.

Overall the move is good for all in my view
If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then?
My first point is reiterated by your statement! Nothing further to add.
I'd just like to explain that my stance doesn't come from a racial point of view, but is a cultural issue. I'm non religious and the thought of my children sitting in a class that is 95% Islamic was a frightening prospect. Young minds are easily brainwashed and I wasn't prepared to take that risk. I have lived in Blackburn most of my life and have seen it go down hill and I can understand why people outside the town are unaware of the issues. Locals refer to a division between geographical areas of Whiteburn and Blackburn and seldom do the two mix. As for safety issues, drug dealing, child grooming and dangerous driving are rife in the Asian community, but the softly softly 'ostrich' approach to policing, through the 'so called' leadership of Chief Superintendent Bob Eastwood has made the town what it is. Jack Straw has also been implicit in this, by turning a blind eye to the issues in return for votes.

A year ago I witnessed a gang of young Asian boys entering QEGS grounds at the weekend with two young white kids, who looked startled as they passed me. I found out later that the two boys had been abducted by the gang in Corporation Park with the threat of violence and robbed of their mobile telephones.

My friends daughter went to St Mary's 6th form but left after the 1st year because a gang of Asian boys kept spitting on her as they didn't like the way she dressed. This is the true state of life in Blackburn and why I was not prepared for my children to be brought up there.
[quote][p][bold]rosie+4[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthecabinboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rosie+4[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plasticbertrand[/bold] wrote: The only people in the Ribble Valley that would be keen on using QEGS would be those in Wilpshire and Mellor, who have a fear that their offsprings are destined for Blackburn schools, as all the Ribble Valley ones are already oversubscribed. We had this discussion at the school gate today and most parents would choose Ribblesdale over QEGS, due to ethnic and safety issues in Blackburn.[/p][/quote]Using safety and ethnic in the same sentence implying they're both hazardous to the school. A little racist don't you think? A lot of 'ethnic' people value education highly and if these 'ethnic' pupils do end up going it may give the school the boost it needs. The 'ethnic' pupils will gain from being involved in extra-curricular activities and the school will benefit from a potential raise in academic results. See Tauheedul's results if in doubt. Overall the move is good for all in my view[/p][/quote]If that is the case Qeg's might have to draw a veil over that one - I wonder what school policy might be then?[/p][/quote]My first point is reiterated by your statement! Nothing further to add.[/p][/quote]I'd just like to explain that my stance doesn't come from a racial point of view, but is a cultural issue. I'm non religious and the thought of my children sitting in a class that is 95% Islamic was a frightening prospect. Young minds are easily brainwashed and I wasn't prepared to take that risk. I have lived in Blackburn most of my life and have seen it go down hill and I can understand why people outside the town are unaware of the issues. Locals refer to a division between geographical areas of Whiteburn and Blackburn and seldom do the two mix. As for safety issues, drug dealing, child grooming and dangerous driving are rife in the Asian community, but the softly softly 'ostrich' approach to policing, through the 'so called' leadership of Chief Superintendent Bob Eastwood has made the town what it is. Jack Straw has also been implicit in this, by turning a blind eye to the issues in return for votes. A year ago I witnessed a gang of young Asian boys entering QEGS grounds at the weekend with two young white kids, who looked startled as they passed me. I found out later that the two boys had been abducted by the gang in Corporation Park with the threat of violence and robbed of their mobile telephones. My friends daughter went to St Mary's 6th form but left after the 1st year because a gang of Asian boys kept spitting on her as they didn't like the way she dressed. This is the true state of life in Blackburn and why I was not prepared for my children to be brought up there. Plasticbertrand
  • Score: 1

11:58pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Jones9 says...

The country is now full of Asians in positions of power and they have ruined it in my opinion.

In India and Pakistan all these "clever" people have made it a lovely place to live - haven't they..

Look at the Serious Fraud Office and SEEMA POPPAT case controller - locking up innocent British Entrepreneurs for nothing - our young men die for nothing. They win us in a different way - a way that we must all prepare for.
The country is now full of Asians in positions of power and they have ruined it in my opinion. In India and Pakistan all these "clever" people have made it a lovely place to live - haven't they.. Look at the Serious Fraud Office and SEEMA POPPAT case controller - locking up innocent British Entrepreneurs for nothing - our young men die for nothing. They win us in a different way - a way that we must all prepare for. Jones9
  • Score: 1

5:30am Sat 10 Nov 12

Phil Simpson says...

This debate is fast moving away from one before & against QEGS' Free School bid & one of Blackburn's ethnic, racial & cultural issues, perceived or otherwise. Before it moves back on topic. I'd like to question whether child grooming & the like are any more rife in the Asian community than elsewhere. After all one month it is a group of Asian men doing the grooming & the next, high profile celebrities who are no more Asian than I am are in the frame for it.
This debate is fast moving away from one before & against QEGS' Free School bid & one of Blackburn's ethnic, racial & cultural issues, perceived or otherwise. Before it moves back on topic. I'd like to question whether child grooming & the like are any more rife in the Asian community than elsewhere. After all one month it is a group of Asian men doing the grooming & the next, high profile celebrities who are no more Asian than I am are in the frame for it. Phil Simpson
  • Score: 1

4:46pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

lencho wrote:
Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise.
Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing.
Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime.
Good riddance QEGS .
Apologies for picking up on this late; been a busy man and all that.

The irony of your comments is that QEGS will no doubt not only survive, but probably flourish. Whilst you it seems will no doubt take your hate filled bitter existence to the grave.

It's never too late to change lencho. Become a hippy and learn to love QEGS.

How did you fail the exam twice over 45 years incidentally? How old were you when you sat it the second time; 55? Did they stop you before you'd even started that time? Presumably whilst the police were waiting for you at the back of the hall.

Did QEGS directly lead you to spending time at Her Majesty's pleasure? Is that where the bitterness comes from?
[quote][p][bold]lencho[/bold] wrote: Having failed their entrance exam twice over 45 years ago I am really pleased to hear of QEGS demise. Hopefully in the near future all the staff can be made redundant & the site sold for housing. Retribution may take its time but it usually always arrives in one’s lifetime. Good riddance QEGS .[/p][/quote]Apologies for picking up on this late; been a busy man and all that. The irony of your comments is that QEGS will no doubt not only survive, but probably flourish. Whilst you it seems will no doubt take your hate filled bitter existence to the grave. It's never too late to change lencho. Become a hippy and learn to love QEGS. How did you fail the exam twice over 45 years incidentally? How old were you when you sat it the second time; 55? Did they stop you before you'd even started that time? Presumably whilst the police were waiting for you at the back of the hall. Did QEGS directly lead you to spending time at Her Majesty's pleasure? Is that where the bitterness comes from? Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Jack Herer says...

Jones9 wrote:
Well done and congratulations, Mr Corns!
You have single handedly destroyed one of the best institutions in Lancashire. For the past 500 years, the school survived the Black Plague, Two World Wars, The Great Depression and after just 4 years with you at the reign - IT HAS FAILED - WELL DONE! Hope you're proud. GET RID OF HIM GOVERNORS.
Jesus, there are venom in them thar words and no mistakin'!

Your bitterness towards Mr Corns sounds as laughable as it is misplaced.

The Black Death was from before the school opened incidentally - it ended in 1351; 15 years before Stella Artois came along interestingly.
[quote][p][bold]Jones9[/bold] wrote: Well done and congratulations, Mr Corns! You have single handedly destroyed one of the best institutions in Lancashire. For the past 500 years, the school survived the Black Plague, Two World Wars, The Great Depression and after just 4 years with you at the reign - IT HAS FAILED - WELL DONE! Hope you're proud. GET RID OF HIM GOVERNORS.[/p][/quote]Jesus, there are venom in them thar words and no mistakin'! Your bitterness towards Mr Corns sounds as laughable as it is misplaced. The Black Death was from before the school opened incidentally - it ended in 1351; 15 years before Stella Artois came along interestingly. Jack Herer
  • Score: 0

6:48pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Legal Beagle says...

Tax paying teacher

“ … years of upheavel …” That’s upheaval with an `a’.

“ … pull itself out of it's self created mire …” This should be `its’ not `it’s’.

“ … due to it's failure to attract enough …” Ditto

“To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous …” It’s `To finish off’, and a comma rather than a semicolon.

“Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one … “

It’s `Incidentally’ and `consensus’.

Now do you see why people want to send their children to private schools?

See me after class for six of the best!
Tax paying teacher “ … years of upheavel …” That’s upheaval with an `a’. “ … pull itself out of it's self created mire …” This should be `its’ not `it’s’. “ … due to it's failure to attract enough …” Ditto “To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous …” It’s `To finish off’, and a comma rather than a semicolon. “Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one … “ It’s `Incidentally’ and `consensus’. Now do you see why people want to send their children to private schools? See me after class for six of the best! Legal Beagle
  • Score: 2

9:09pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Blackburnley says...

Legal Beagle wrote:
Tax paying teacher

“ … years of upheavel …” That’s upheaval with an `a’.

“ … pull itself out of it's self created mire …” This should be `its’ not `it’s’.

“ … due to it's failure to attract enough …” Ditto

“To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous …” It’s `To finish off’, and a comma rather than a semicolon.

“Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one … “

It’s `Incidentally’ and `consensus’.

Now do you see why people want to send their children to private schools?

See me after class for six of the best!
Also, "of the ground" instead of "off the ground" (1st posting), "wellcomed" instead of "welcomed" (2nd posting). That's without being pedantic about the grammar and punctuation.
[quote][p][bold]Legal Beagle[/bold] wrote: Tax paying teacher “ … years of upheavel …” That’s upheaval with an `a’. “ … pull itself out of it's self created mire …” This should be `its’ not `it’s’. “ … due to it's failure to attract enough …” Ditto “To finish of; I thought Jack Straw was ridiculous …” It’s `To finish off’, and a comma rather than a semicolon. “Incidently in our staff room today the concensus was to push this one … “ It’s `Incidentally’ and `consensus’. Now do you see why people want to send their children to private schools? See me after class for six of the best![/p][/quote]Also, "of the ground" instead of "off the ground" (1st posting), "wellcomed" instead of "welcomed" (2nd posting). That's without being pedantic about the grammar and punctuation. Blackburnley
  • Score: 1

12:57am Wed 21 Nov 12

Jones9 says...

Normally Jack Straw and his lot come in for 4 years and simply Bankrupt the Government.

This time, they got in for 13 years and Bankrupted the Government and ALL of its citizens except those who get paid from the Bankrupt state.

Well done Jack Straw - you have helped to make Britain one of the poorest states on the Planet.
Normally Jack Straw and his lot come in for 4 years and simply Bankrupt the Government. This time, they got in for 13 years and Bankrupted the Government and ALL of its citizens except those who get paid from the Bankrupt state. Well done Jack Straw - you have helped to make Britain one of the poorest states on the Planet. Jones9
  • Score: 0

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