Call for action over Darwen pavement parkers (From Lancashire Telegraph)
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Call for action over Darwen pavement parkers
6:00pm Monday 16th July 2012 in News
By Dan Clough, Reporter
A PENSIONER broke her shoulder in a fall when she tripped trying to get past vehicles parked on the pavement.
Now friends and family of 85-year-old Vera Smith, of Hindle Court, Darwen, have called for new measures to prevent future accidents.
Mrs Smith was walking along Edward Street, close to the residential home where she lives when the incident happened.
The former sewing machinist and office clerk, together with her fellow residents, said the problem of parking on the pavement had been ongoing for some time.
She said: “I was walking back from Derwent Hall and there were three cars and a van on the pavement.
“I couldn’t get round so I walked out into the road and somehow I ended up falling and breaking my shoulder.
“I am in a lot of pain.
“This parking problem happens every day. We have been complaining about it for four or five years.”
Her son Ian Smith, 61, said double yellow lines should be introduced in the are and on similar problem roads in Darwen.
Parking on the pavement is illegal.
He said: “I spoke to the owners of two cars asking why they had parked there when there was a car park just yards away and they were very rude to me.
“I have been to the police and they were very supportive.
“We want double yellow lines putting down before more people get hurt.”
Town mayor and Sudell councillor Eileen Entwistle said: “If we can do something down there we will do.”
Coun Paul Browne, who also represents the Sudell ward, said: “I would back a call to have yellow lines put down in that road.
“It has been a mess for a while down there, I have heard a number of complaints from other people in the past.
“I will mention it at a Blackburn with Darwen Council meeting in the near future.”
Comments(47)
happycyclist
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6:14pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Steve4x4
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6:20pm Mon 16 Jul 12
owdman
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6:46pm Mon 16 Jul 12
2 for 5p
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7:13pm Mon 16 Jul 12
alf-abett
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7:19pm Mon 16 Jul 12
I was going into town so I reported the matter directly at the Police Station, so job well done! no, on my return home the skips were still in situ but directly opposite and fully on the pavement was a Landrover with a caged trailer attached fully blocking the pavement on that side of the road. I gave up!!!
english rose 1
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9:18pm Mon 16 Jul 12
owdman wrote:Don't be daft owdman - the LT rings Councillors for quotes. If said Councillor says 'I'm doing nowt' or 'No Comment' then you would be even more upset !
Typical councillors - reactive and not proactive, they only want to do something when its in the spotlight attracting media attention. Why have they not sorted this out before the lady was hurt? It is not good enough hearing the Mayor saying if we can do something we will. Also Paul Brown with his weasel words. Get it sorted NOW before someone is killed.
Cars parking on pavements happens on virtually every street especially in terraced areas. The police cannot enforce it on every street therefore use their time & resources on areas where there are reported serious problems, - such as in this location as reported.
If the lady had contacted her local councillors (the article does not say she did this) they would have been round to help sort the problem probably the same week. Councillors don't have crystal balls so unless the lady rang them directly how on earth can they react when it's a problem on virtually every street ? Tell me owdman how can the 3 Councillors in Sudell Ward (where Hindle Court is located) be stood outside 3,500 homes in the ward to check daily whether vehicles are parked on the pavement or not ?!
Marky mark
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9:19pm Mon 16 Jul 12
I know this matter may be seen by some has "nothing better to moan about" but I think the point is, if I was parked on the footpath (I have in the past) and you could see somebody wanting to get past or asked you to move a little, you would move, wouldn't you.
Maybe the characters you had dealings with had spent to long on the sunbed or had to much steroid that morning.
english rose 1
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9:27pm Mon 16 Jul 12
y quite a few don't have any !
Darren1951
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9:37pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Believe me, my mother, and other Hindle Court residents, have done so on several occasions in recent years, including to the current Darwen Mayor, Councillor Entwistle, a long-standing acquaintance of my parents. At least one registration number, that of probably the most persistent Edward Street offender, a "white van man" who regularly leaves his vehicle there for periods exceeding 24 nours has even, I understand, been passed to the police. Result so far - absolutely nothing.....but please watch this space!
mother of 4
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10:02pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Darren1951
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10:20pm Mon 16 Jul 12
mother of 4
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10:25pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Darren1951 wrote:well i get that idea but you cannot do this to people and not expect to be shouted back out.........you was very ignorant yourself from what i gather and lucky no one actually hit you with your horrible mannerisms..........
Mother of 4...if people are are causing a problem to anyone by their pig ignorance, and lack of consideration, as I experienced on Saturday, I think most people would agree with my view that they fully deserve to be ranted, raved, and shouted at.
perhaps talking to people would be a better approach they may listen and actually take you seriously then.........i saw two people you upset!!!!!! one poor young woman was nearly in tears and shaking.........
vodkas666
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10:27pm Mon 16 Jul 12
The proposed solution of double yellow lines won't help the situation just make prosecution easier. They will create a shortage of parking for residents and visitors. There is a car park but sometimes, for whatever reason it can be easier to park outside a place of interest. For an example of a shambles of a place to park look at Lancaster where in less your a resident you have no right to park anywhere but Pay and Displays. Is this the system we want/need in this town?
I do love your story Darren but it seems very one-sided. You have taken it upon yourself to act as judge, jury and executioner. As the saying goes guilty until proven ... :P Labelling people "yobs" and portraying them as ogres off a small snapshot in a day, in there lives is short sighted and unhelpfully judgemental.
I like to think Police have many better tasks to be getting on with rather than patrolling your area solely prosecuting motorists. They should be hopefully catching the crims who held me at knife point for money, the people who every weekend rip my wing mirror off and trash the windscreen wipers, the drug dealing scum helping make my life hell for the last 6 years and stopping the parties occurring throughout the night at excessive volumes outside my house. However I'm still waiting for any action on these events, why should you be an exception?
Next time you take it upon yourself to be the sheriff of Darwen please wear a cape so the paper can label you the superhero you clearly are. Its a shame the Olympic torch-bearers has already been decided as you clearly deserve a nomination for your extraordinary effort in tacking these murders in your area
Darren1951
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10:31pm Mon 16 Jul 12
mother of 4
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10:38pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Darren1951 wrote:shouting at people threatening them with the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just who do you think you are???? That young lady was very distraught after you had finished and not the only one it seems a lady told her to ignore you you are always shouting at people for parking you have nothing better to do.......your issues are right but ranting at people wont get you anywhere.........
Mo4 - please be good enough to explain which "mannerisms" you are referring to. I was merely pointing out the nearby (very nearby) availability of free, public parking space.
vodkas666
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10:40pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Darren1951 wrote:I would have thought after labelling other people as yobs for their lack of manners you would know what mannerisms are.
Mo4 - please be good enough to explain which "mannerisms" you are referring to. I was merely pointing out the nearby (very nearby) availability of free, public parking space.
Mannerisms are in brief, the way you act and speak to other people. Shouting and being impolite puts you in the same yob category as the people your trying to stop. Get off you high horse, your clearly no better than any other person on your street, in the town, in Lancashire, the United Kingdom or the world.
Darren1951
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11:02pm Mon 16 Jul 12
I'm not trying to claim any kudos, privilege, or priority over this matter, and you have my every sympathy for what you've had to endure. Look at another article, published in the LT not many minutes ago, about "travellers" occupying a sports field in Burnley - clearly, I'd say, illegal, yet the authorites stand by and do nothing, presumably hoping that the problem will go away of its own accord.
On the subject of "yobs" - when someone tells you to F OFF when all you've done is to ask them two perfectly polite questions, wouldn't you say that was yobbish behaviour?
I don't pretend to have the answers to any of these problems and, in my case at least, you're right, in that they're near the bottom end of the scale, but what's wrong with trying to address even a small problem, if it makes life just a little more tolerable for a few people?
Two points....
Firstly, the double yellow lines wasn't my idea, but was put forard by a local businessman; also, the only residences in this specific area are sheltered accomodation for elderly and/or infirm people. The street where my mother's accident occurred has no houses at all and, as you've probably gleaned, there is usually more than ample, safe, and legal parking available within a distance of fifty yards at the most.
Darren1951
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11:10pm Mon 16 Jul 12
burner
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11:27pm Mon 16 Jul 12
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Having said that, I hope your Mother recovers.. . . sincerely.
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Finally, mother of 4 speaks words of wisdom.
l m h jones
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11:36pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Darren1951
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12:03am Tue 17 Jul 12
Secondly......your point is???
lmhj: It may interest you and some, not all, other contributors that pavement parking in Enland and Wales is only a specific offence if it's in London; elsewhere, it's only an offence if it's "deemed" to be causing an obstruction. That means that if you can afford a lawyer like Nick Freeman, aka Mr Loophole, you'll probably get away with it.
Time for bed said Zebedee - BOINNG!!
vodkas666
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8:23am Tue 17 Jul 12
Its fine to take pictures and approach people illegally parking in the right manner. From what I read he wasn't as "polite" as he makes out shouting and bringing a women to tears. Shouting and telling people what to isn't the way forward. It requires a nice, calm voice and somewhere a please and thank you wouldn't go a miss, Not this "why do you have the right to park here" and "move your car down there" (I wasn't there but I can guess what was said).
On another note taking pictures and reporting the crime is fine. However writing in the comment section here the registration plates and his OWN STORY isn't okay. The matter is for the POLICE NOT VIGILANTES. These people haven't been given the right to defend their actions of illegal parking or the manner in which they have dealt with Darren1951. These people might for all we know be suffering hate crimes now. With Facebook and other mediums its easy for people to track other people down. Personally I don't think its right that Darren may have subjected these people to revenge attacks because he wanted to solve a small problem in his area.
burner
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8:30am Tue 17 Jul 12
stonewall riot
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8:38am Tue 17 Jul 12
RUinsane
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9:05am Tue 17 Jul 12
LancsLass
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9:58am Tue 17 Jul 12
QuizOnMyFace
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10:24am Tue 17 Jul 12
stonewall riot wrote:Or we would just end up with a situation like Sudell Road where cars are parked fully on the road...smashed wing mirrors and congestion.
When the council re-surfaced Marsh house lane they 'dropped' the kerbs , so that all the cars park half on the kerb. If they had left the kerb high then the cars would have had to park fully on the road. Which would have made the cars coming up and down slow down to get past them - thus getting rid of the need to 'build' those enormous speed bumps/maintain them etc.
However, the point that everyone seems to be missing here is...
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO PARK ON THE PAVEMENT!!
END OF STORY.
happycyclist
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10:58am Tue 17 Jul 12
QuizOnMyFace wrote:Not really.
stonewall riot wrote:Or we would just end up with a situation like Sudell Road where cars are parked fully on the road...smashed wing mirrors and congestion.
When the council re-surfaced Marsh house lane they 'dropped' the kerbs , so that all the cars park half on the kerb. If they had left the kerb high then the cars would have had to park fully on the road. Which would have made the cars coming up and down slow down to get past them - thus getting rid of the need to 'build' those enormous speed bumps/maintain them etc.
However, the point that everyone seems to be missing here is...
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO PARK ON THE PAVEMENT!!
END OF STORY.
Highways Act 1835 section 72, and Road Traffic Act 1988 section 34.
You must not drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property or in the case of an emergency.
;)
Darren1951
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12:00pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Let’s get one thing perfectly straight….in each of the three cases, I initiated the conversation in a perfectly polite and reasonable manner, almost in the Sgt Wilson (Dad’s Army) style, “I say, would you mind awfully…” (well, perhaps not quite). It was only when they reacted as they did, with abuse, foul language, and, in the young woman’s case, an repeated attempt to justify her actions, whilst acknowledging that what she was doing was wrong; that I became, let’s say, agitated. As for shouting, it’s a relative term, and you seem to be in danger of falling into your own “trap, ie. taking one person’s opinion against mine. I don’t do this sort of thing regularly, but if I did, I acknowledge that I would need to modify my approach to some extent.
Each one of these people had a clear opportunity to justify why they were doing what they were doing but instead, they, or at least two of them, chose abuse and foul language, rather than a more rational appropach.
The problem is, that many people today think that nobody, sometimes not even the police, has/have the right to question, or bring attention to, their actions, even when those people are aware that what they are doing is wrong, or socially unacceptable – note the fact that the pair who became abusive did actually move their vehicles.
As for vigilantism, yer ‘aving a larff! Parking on the pavement, whilst not exactly a “hanging offence”, is a very anti-social act which causes inconvenience to the general public. Just ask the Hindle Court residents. If people don’t like their actions, or misdeeds, being made public, they shouldn’t commit them in the first place – SIMPLES!
BTW, if anyone expects (or even wants!) any further responses from me, I’m doing this is my lunch break, and it’ll have to wait until later – even sad geeks like me have a living to earn!
Darren1951
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12:08pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Darren1951
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12:16pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Darren1951 wrote:I'd be very interested to know why this earlier posting of mine was "negatived", but obviously, it depends on the perpetrator having the "guts" take responsibilty for his/her action and own up. What's in it that you disagree with?
English Rose - yes, you're correct, in that the article mentions nothing about anyone having spoken to the council. Believe me, my mother, and other Hindle Court residents, have done so on several occasions in recent years, including to the current Darwen Mayor, Councillor Entwistle, a long-standing acquaintance of my parents. At least one registration number, that of probably the most persistent Edward Street offender, a "white van man" who regularly leaves his vehicle there for periods exceeding 24 nours has even, I understand, been passed to the police. Result so far - absolutely nothing.....but please watch this space!
Darren1951
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12:18pm Tue 17 Jul 12
QuizOnMyFace
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2:27pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Darren1951 wrote:If it is illegal go and tell the police...
Quizonmyface.....no, you're wrong - please read my earlier submission, timed at 12:03 today - it's an excerpt, or at least a transcript, from the Road Traffic Act. Unfortunately, it leaves plenty of scope for interpretation, and this distinction, between London and the rest of us poor mortals, is also a point I intend to bring up with the appropriate person/people, but that will have wait until I've finished answering all my fan mail!
Although you probably prefer intimidating women in the street...
Darren1951
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2:43pm Tue 17 Jul 12
QuizOnMyFace wrote:Grow up, and read read the article PROPERLY!
Darren1951 wrote: Quizonmyface.....no, you're wrong - please read my earlier submission, timed at 12:03 today - it's an excerpt, or at least a transcript, from the Road Traffic Act. Unfortunately, it leaves plenty of scope for interpretation, and this distinction, between London and the rest of us poor mortals, is also a point I intend to bring up with the appropriate person/people, but that will have wait until I've finished answering all my fan mail!If it is illegal go and tell the police... Although you probably prefer intimidating women in the street...
burner
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4:00pm Tue 17 Jul 12
vodkas666
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4:02pm Tue 17 Jul 12
You have said you have given them to right to justify themselves to yourself but I don't remember anything that says they have to. The law, the police and the justice system exist so these people can justify themselves in a fair system and not be branded guilty for their actions because they didn't explain to you the reasons why. If these people work in the public sector you could have got them sacked/suspended. The reason noboby feels accountable to anyone else is because we have a police force.
Have you put yourself in their shoes yet? If someone interupts you minding your own business how would you have reacted. For 9/10 people they proably would react argrily.
I used the term vigalante to be "someone taking the law in to their own hands", admittedly not the proper defination of enforcing the law without aurthority.
Your right these crimes shouldn't occur but its not up to citizens to enforce the law either. If crimes didn't happen we wouldn't need to spend millions on policing.
I agree with you about making the crimes public but disagree with the posting of reg. plates and describing the persons in question. You could have given an example without the description or reg. plates, then the context of your removed post would have been different and I wouldn't have felt the need to post in the first place.
vodkas666
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4:04pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Progressive Penguin
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4:46pm Tue 17 Jul 12
I know of one instance in Darwen when someone was asked to stop vandalising a gate the response was to literally kick the "do-gooder's" head in. I shouted at a man once who was beating up his girlfriend on the street and was rewarded with death threats and nearly got beaten up myself - Was that okay because I should have left him to it?
Darren1951
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5:43pm Tue 17 Jul 12
You're perfectly right, they don't, but, by the same token neither did they need to react with abuse and foul language when asked a simple, polite question. This is bearing out exactly what PP in the last post is saying.
Have you ever asked anyone in recent years to take take their feet off a bus or train seat? If not, I suggest you try it.
** If these people work in the public sector you could have got them sacked/suspended
I'm sorry? How on earth do you think I could have got their names (legally), or any other personal details - by asking them politely? Don't think so somehow.
** If someone interupts you minding your own business how would you have reacted
This is a very sweeping question, taking no account whatsoever of the situation or context. Does this mean that you include partially or totally blocking pavements with a vehicle as minding your own business?
** "someone taking the law in to their own hands
Now you're approaching the realm of fantasy. I was doing no such thing - if I had been, I'm sure I would have had a visit from the boys (or girls) in blue by now.
** I agree with you about making the crimes public but disagree with the posting of reg. plates and describing the persons in question.
So I just go and put a posting, anonymously or under a pseudonym on FACEBOOK, withy a heal of abuse? - not much difference
really, I reckon.
Fact: the people I spoke to had parked their vehicles with no consideration towards pedestrians, possibly illegally, and when there was ample legal parking available within a very short distance - please don't forget that in your attempts to criticise my actions.
Postscript: just adding to demonstrate, hopefully, I that do actually have a consructive side. As we discussed last night, there is a consideration to introduce double yellows in the street in question, Edward St. Pros and cons there, I think.What I would like to see, and what I intend to push for as a matter of urgency, is for a car park sign on the main road to point towards the free car park; also, another "large P" sign at the car park entrance. I think some people mistake some of the signs on the doors backing on to the car park as being "no parking" warning signs. I'll have to do a recce, but I'm pretty sure neither of these exists, Won't solve the problem entirely, but I think it would help
burner
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6:45pm Tue 17 Jul 12
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no problem with you, vodka.
Darren1951
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6:49pm Tue 17 Jul 12
burner
says...
6:56pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Darren1951
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7:13pm Tue 17 Jul 12
You're obviously totally incapable of contributing anything whatsoever of any value to these threads, so:
1) stop reading them
2) shut the **** up.
burner
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9:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12
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Someone displeases you, you remonstrate and then berate them in the street and they swear at you. You say, " that's wrong" and bleat in public to the press.
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.I displease you .I do not threaten you. I offer no violence. I do not swear. YOU SWEAR AT ME. You say, "That's OK ".
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You are a hypocrite. . . and tedious. I feel sorry for your husband. He has to live with that !
Darren1951
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11:30pm Tue 17 Jul 12
ZZZ
Darren1951
says...
10:19pm Wed 18 Jul 12
Pity that, most of it was starting to get interesting.
happycyclist says...
6:09pm Mon 16 Jul 12