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Health bosses propose to create 'smoking courtyards' at East Lancashire hospitals

10:00am Monday 16th January 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Neil Docking, Reporter

NEW internal smoking areas could be created at East Lancashire’s hospitals to stop people smoking at entrance doors.

East Lancashire Hospitals NHS Trust has launched a six-month study to decide how to solve the problem at Royal Blackburn and Burnley General hospitals after complaints from patients, visitors and staff.

The trust said its workers had suffered verbal abuse when asking smokers to move away from entrance areas and sometimes felt intimidated by groups of smokers.

But health chiefs decided to stop short of enforcing a total ban due to the number of patients and visitors who do smoke and their level of addiction.

Nationally around 24 per cent of the population smoke, but in East Lancashire this figure is as high as 30 per cent in Burnley and 27 per cent in Blackburn with Darwen.

Speaking at the trust’s latest board meeting, Mark Brearley, East Lancashire Hospitals’ chief executive, said: “We’ve had a number of complaints from patients and visitors who feel that they have to walk through a cloud of smoke to come in here.

“I don’t think we can underestimate the damage it does to our reputation as a health organisation.

“However our local population have particular characteristics with regards to smoking that we have to recognise.”

Non-executive director Elizabeth Sedgely suggested that the trust could follow the lead of big businesses and ban smoking on its sites entirely.

But Lynn Wissett, deputy chief executive at the trust, said: “Given the statistics I have just laid out we know we could enforce a total smoking ban but the likelihood of that happening is nil.

“Sometimes we have some very vulnerable, sick people who are addicted to smoking and we have to acknowledge that.

“We can’t have people saying if I can’t smoke I won’t come and get the treatment I need.

“We’ve got people coming here in their 80s, they have smoked all their life and they are coming here to die. Are we to say to them you can’t smoke in the last days of your life?

“The issue we have at the moment is because we can’t signpost them anywhere we can’t tell them where to go where they can smoke.”

She said the proposed solution was to create an internal courtyard smoking area for patients, which carers and relatives could also access in certain circumstances, such as following a bereavement.

Staff are banned from smoking on site and if smoking off the premises during their regular breaks they must cover their uniforms.

Comments(40)

sammy37 says...
10:35am Mon 16 Jan 12

not before time

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Yankee Clipper II says...
10:47am Mon 16 Jan 12

NHS staff are very correctly banned from smoking on the hospital grounds, and the same should also apply to all patients and visitors. Saying that "our local population have particular characteristics with regards to smoking that we have to recognise” is nothing but a spineless excuse for not enforcing an already existent health policy. The bottom line is this: Smoking kills and the breathing in of someone else's second-hand smoke also kills. It is the treatment of tobacco-related diseases and illnesses which is responsible for a large percentage of this country's high healthcare costs.

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Brian Todd says...
11:15am Mon 16 Jan 12

A I understood both the East LAncashire Hospitals Trust and teh Blackburn with DArwen PCT established ridiculous bans in the grounds of any of their facilities. A ban which could not be implemented and which was way byond the legal buildings ban. Now they are proposing to bil;us smoking courtyards at a further cost in a PFI Billding1 Have either ever rescinded their origional ban?

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kateash says...
11:55am Mon 16 Jan 12

How ridiculous to even think of this U-turn. Yankee Clipper is correct there should be a total ban. Patients should not be allowed to leave the ward or they should be made to sign a discharge sheet if they wish to go out to smoke. Visitors can go elsewhere should they choose to kill themselves by smoking!
I am a nurse and we were expected to challenge anyone smoking at the doors and entrance to the hospitals in Burnley! Many patients were at the door one hour after their op and then they wondered why they fainted on the doorstep leaving any passing nurse to sort them out. Why me! No wonder staff felt intimidated. Employ security to do this not the nurse! Then you may get a response from the smoker! Both my parents were smokers and both died at a young age from smoking related illnesses. Ridiculous of the Trust as usual!!

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GrumpyofClayton says...
12:29pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Any patient caught smoking in or near a hospital should be refused 'funded by the tax payer' treatment.

After all, they obviously don't want to live anyway....

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Mill62 says...
12:31pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Do not forget that taxes on smokers pay for much of the Health service and the huge wages of most of its staff.
Far more money is raised by these taxes than treating smoking illnesses.

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kateash says...
1:08pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Mill62 What a daft argument you put forward.Typical of any smoker who has so little willpower to give up smoking that they have to justify it! Smoking kills. I have seen it first hand.

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happydaysagain says...
1:31pm Mon 16 Jan 12

I am a smoker, if i chose 2 smoke that is my right 2 do so, as its the non smokers right not 2, also the taxes i have paid 4 my smoking will have paid 4 my operations, have the non smokers thought if all smokers gave up the nhs would crumble no taxes from tobacco products, also what about the old age pensioners who are thrown out in the cold in all weathers 2 smoke breathing in all the car fumes,i bet a lot of them was in the forces fighting 4 r country n r rights n now its bin taken away from them, i agree we should have a separate place 2 smoke n i also agree no smoking where there is food come on people get a grip.

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kateash says...
1:51pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Happy days again have you thought that if more people did not smoke we would not have as many admissions to hospital through smoking related diseases and therefore would not need money from taxes. You have had four operations. Maybe you would not have needed them or as much aftercare had you not smoked. Your argument is flawed. When you have seen someone in agony gasping for breath because they have a smoking related illness then you will understand. Smokers are very selfish and think they have a right to smoke. It is they who are taking up a hospital bed that belongs to someone who cares and looks after their health not someone who is trying to kill themselves by smoking. If you wish to continue to smoke knowing full well it can kill you then you should be made to pay for your own treatment and not hide behind the fact that you pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes but some people value their health. The Nhs is crumbling because people like you could not care less about their own health.

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GrumpyofClayton says...
1:59pm Mon 16 Jan 12

kateash wrote:
Happy days again have you thought that if more people did not smoke we would not have as many admissions to hospital through smoking related diseases and therefore would not need money from taxes. You have had four operations. Maybe you would not have needed them or as much aftercare had you not smoked. Your argument is flawed. When you have seen someone in agony gasping for breath because they have a smoking related illness then you will understand. Smokers are very selfish and think they have a right to smoke. It is they who are taking up a hospital bed that belongs to someone who cares and looks after their health not someone who is trying to kill themselves by smoking. If you wish to continue to smoke knowing full well it can kill you then you should be made to pay for your own treatment and not hide behind the fact that you pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes but some people value their health. The Nhs is crumbling because people like you could not care less about their own health.
Well said!

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happydaysagain says...
2:20pm Mon 16 Jan 12

kateash wot i said was i would have paid 4 my operations not that i have ad 4 operations read n look at the big picture again, i bet ur a non smoker

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happydaysagain says...
2:40pm Mon 16 Jan 12

people just dont understand yes nearly every1 pays tax, yes some of this does go 2 the nhs, do u not understand how much tax off tobacco products goes 2 the nhs, wot about the people who av never paid any tax n never smoked does that mean they cant have any treatment cus they havent paid any tax, yes i do understand where u r coming from , i would still let people decide, but i would not throw people out in the rain 2 smoke some of these people r old age pensioners worked all there lifes n paid tax all there lifes give us somewhere 2 smoke, its like all the pubs going under because of the no smoking ban the pubs should av ad a sign saying this is a smoking pub then it would be ur choice 2 go in.

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happydaysagain says...
2:40pm Mon 16 Jan 12

people just dont understand yes nearly every1 pays tax, yes some of this does go 2 the nhs, do u not understand how much tax off tobacco products goes 2 the nhs, wot about the people who av never paid any tax n never smoked does that mean they cant have any treatment cus they havent paid any tax, yes i do understand where u r coming from , i would still let people decide, but i would not throw people out in the rain 2 smoke some of these people r old age pensioners worked all there lifes n paid tax all there lifes give us somewhere 2 smoke, its like all the pubs going under because of the no smoking ban the pubs should av ad a sign saying this is a smoking pub then it would be ur choice 2 go in.

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gdunning says...
2:40pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Yankee Clipper II wrote:
NHS staff are very correctly banned from smoking on the hospital grounds, and the same should also apply to all patients and visitors. Saying that "our local population have particular characteristics with regards to smoking that we have to recognise” is nothing but a spineless excuse for not enforcing an already existent health policy. The bottom line is this: Smoking kills and the breathing in of someone else's second-hand smoke also kills. It is the treatment of tobacco-related diseases and illnesses which is responsible for a large percentage of this country's high healthcare costs.
“Sometimes we have some very vulnerable, sick people who are addicted to smoking and we have to acknowledge that.

“We can’t have people saying if I can’t smoke I won’t come and get the treatment I need.

“We’ve got people coming here in their 80s, they have smoked all their life and they are coming here to die. Are we to say to them you can’t smoke in the last days of your life?"

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Harwoodian says...
4:00pm Mon 16 Jan 12

GrumpyofClayton wrote:
Any patient caught smoking in or near a hospital should be refused 'funded by the tax payer' treatment.

After all, they obviously don't want to live anyway....
Smokers are some of the larger tax paying community. The surplus of which goes above and beyong their illness created be smoking and the financial contribution made. Non-smokers should realise that we agree with the term "never the twain shall meet" and most of us agree. Smoking outside a hospital entrance is unacceptable and the trust are proposing ways to overcome this. Smoking is in decline in this country as even as a smoker I embrace this and would not want my children to smoke. Even so, can we not be accomodated until we are phased out cosidering our financial contribution and the fact that this was a perfectly acceptable activity as we were growing. Smokers do NOT want to upset or infect non-smokers, but our decline needs to be catered for gradually.

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katypri says...
4:34pm Mon 16 Jan 12

good, if you put ashtrays screwed to a wall most smokers would never throw them on the floor, give us an area we will use it, also in bars most of the social life is now outside with none smokers choicing to join you as inside is dead. do i sue as no one when i was young told us it was dangerous adverts encouraged it

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happydaysagain says...
5:08pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Harwoodian wrote:
GrumpyofClayton wrote:
Any patient caught smoking in or near a hospital should be refused 'funded by the tax payer' treatment.

After all, they obviously don't want to live anyway....
Smokers are some of the larger tax paying community. The surplus of which goes above and beyong their illness created be smoking and the financial contribution made. Non-smokers should realise that we agree with the term "never the twain shall meet" and most of us agree. Smoking outside a hospital entrance is unacceptable and the trust are proposing ways to overcome this. Smoking is in decline in this country as even as a smoker I embrace this and would not want my children to smoke. Even so, can we not be accomodated until we are phased out cosidering our financial contribution and the fact that this was a perfectly acceptable activity as we were growing. Smokers do NOT want to upset or infect non-smokers, but our decline needs to be catered for gradually.
I agree

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hoppyhol says...
5:19pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Will they be building a bar for the alcoholics?

After all they pay a lot of tax on booze dont they?

Whilst we are at it, I pay loads of tax for my car, can I run somebody over safe in the knowledge that I will have already paid for their treatment?

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Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...
5:28pm Mon 16 Jan 12

I can't believe it, I know some one who never smoked and he died how can this be?

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Harwoodian says...
6:07pm Mon 16 Jan 12

hoppyhol wrote:
Will they be building a bar for the alcoholics?

After all they pay a lot of tax on booze dont they?

Whilst we are at it, I pay loads of tax for my car, can I run somebody over safe in the knowledge that I will have already paid for their treatment?
My comment was regarding a factual situation that we currently have in society. I clearly stated that even as a smoker who agrees with the need for us not to subject our habit to others, we still need to be accomodated at present. If all you can do is gleen from this an opportunity to make an ill informed sarcastic and argumentative point, then I suggest you read and ABSORB only.
Fool!

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hoppyhol says...
7:09pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Harwoodian wrote:
hoppyhol wrote:
Will they be building a bar for the alcoholics?

After all they pay a lot of tax on booze dont they?

Whilst we are at it, I pay loads of tax for my car, can I run somebody over safe in the knowledge that I will have already paid for their treatment?
My comment was regarding a factual situation that we currently have in society. I clearly stated that even as a smoker who agrees with the need for us not to subject our habit to others, we still need to be accomodated at present. If all you can do is gleen from this an opportunity to make an ill informed sarcastic and argumentative point, then I suggest you read and ABSORB only.
Fool!
My comment was aimed at the article in general.

The alcoholic analogy is a factual comparable situation in that both are addictive, both generate large tax revenues and both have an adverse effect on others in society and are classed as a burden on the NHS.

Apologies if my half hearted attempt at humour in the car anology offended you so much that you had to resort to name calling.

I thought that the article was open to comments from both sides of the argument both for and against, if my point of view conflicting with your own is classed as being argumentative then I make no apologies for that.

As for being a fool and not absorbing the facts, I made an informed choice not to smoke based on the facts that it is detrimental to health. Life's too short as it is without increasing the chance of shortening it further by smoking.

Have a good evening.

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ste.g says...
7:15pm Mon 16 Jan 12

kateash wrote:
Mill62 What a daft argument you put forward.Typical of any smoker who has so little willpower to give up smoking that they have to justify it! Smoking kills. I have seen it first hand.
hope i never end up with you nursing me...no sympathy from you is there.shall we not help the heroine addicts or those hooked on prescription pills too.

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Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...
7:40pm Mon 16 Jan 12

ste.g wrote:
kateash wrote:
Mill62 What a daft argument you put forward.Typical of any smoker who has so little willpower to give up smoking that they have to justify it! Smoking kills. I have seen it first hand.
hope i never end up with you nursing me...no sympathy from you is there.shall we not help the heroine addicts or those hooked on prescription pills too.
Huge amount of people are hooked on prescription pills, but that's what they want, big pharmaceutical are robbing our health service blind. Why do people that don't smoke die can anyone tell me?

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Keep Darwen Green says...
8:06pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Smoking is a drug like any other, the only difference is it is legal. So as the NHS help illegal drug users, its only fair that they help legal ones too.
I never see them refusing to treat anyone suffering form a cannabis injection overdose, so smokers should be treated also. There are no taxes on cannabis yet there is plenty added on to a packet of chuffs.
And no, I don't smoke, before you say I do.

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Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...
8:12pm Mon 16 Jan 12

Keep Darwen Green wrote:
Smoking is a drug like any other, the only difference is it is legal. So as the NHS help illegal drug users, its only fair that they help legal ones too.
I never see them refusing to treat anyone suffering form a cannabis injection overdose, so smokers should be treated also. There are no taxes on cannabis yet there is plenty added on to a packet of chuffs.
And no, I don't smoke, before you say I do.
hehe :) **** those cannabis injectors don't deserve any help

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Mill62 says...
11:00pm Mon 16 Jan 12

kateash-Read my post again.
I never said smoking doesn't kill.
By the way, I have never smoked.

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Mill62 says...
11:00pm Mon 16 Jan 12

kateash-Read my post again.
I never said smoking doesn't kill.
By the way, I have never smoked.

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BuckoTheMoose says...
8:26pm Tue 17 Jan 12

GrumpyofClayton wrote:
Any patient caught smoking in or near a hospital should be refused 'funded by the tax payer' treatment.

After all, they obviously don't want to live anyway....
Smoking costs the NHS almost 3 billion per year. Smokers pay 11 billion in tax per year.

It's us that are paying for your treatment, not the other way around.

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happydaysagain says...
9:04pm Tue 17 Jan 12

BuckoTheMoose wrote:
GrumpyofClayton wrote:
Any patient caught smoking in or near a hospital should be refused 'funded by the tax payer' treatment.

After all, they obviously don't want to live anyway....
Smoking costs the NHS almost 3 billion per year. Smokers pay 11 billion in tax per year.

It's us that are paying for your treatment, not the other way around.
well said

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kateash says...
11:06pm Tue 17 Jan 12

The point is East Lancs hospitals are a Non Smoking Trust and as such should not be seen to be supporting smoking by allowing it on the Trust sites whether this be at the front door or by creating internal smoking areas. Patients should not be allowed to leave the ward or else what is the point in them being there. I have even seen a patient in a hospital gown, with a drip, walking back from the Starbucks near the Royal Blackburn hospital and at Burnley General seen someone go to the nearby Tesco also with drip and gown!
Ste.g if you were on my ward you would receive the best care available as I am an old school nurse and we had the best training ever! So do not be critical! I value my health and the patient's health but leaving the ward to go for a smoke or smoking on Trust grounds is a no no! At Burnley General I have had to pick up lots of patients who have gone to the door for a smoke and then fainted. Are these internal smoking areas going to have a nurse available? What if the patient is needed for treatment on the ward? Does the nurse have to go and look for the patient in the internal smoking area?

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kateash says...
11:12pm Tue 17 Jan 12

Perhaps Lyn Wissett should take a leaf out of Airedale Nhs Trust:


Smoke Free at Airedale NHS Trust
From 8th March 2006 smoking is not permitted anywhere in the buildings or grounds of Airedale NHS Trust.

The whole of the NHS will be going no smoking by the end of 2006 as part of the Government's campaign to improve the health of the nation.

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kateash says...
11:12pm Tue 17 Jan 12

Perhaps Lyn Wissett should take a leaf out of Airedale Nhs Trust:


Smoke Free at Airedale NHS Trust
From 8th March 2006 smoking is not permitted anywhere in the buildings or grounds of Airedale NHS Trust.

The whole of the NHS will be going no smoking by the end of 2006 as part of the Government's campaign to improve the health of the nation.

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kateash says...
11:13pm Tue 17 Jan 12

Perhaps Lyn Wissett should take a leaf out of Airedale Nhs Trust:

Smoke Free at Airedale NHS Trust
From 8th March 2006 smoking is not permitted anywhere in the buildings or grounds of Airedale NHS Trust.

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BuckoTheMoose says...
7:30am Wed 18 Jan 12

I'm saddened by the uncaring, unfeeling comments from the anti smokers on this site.
There are even comments from people who say they work for the NHS, a supposedly caring profession, that prove that to be a big lie.
Shame on you people who have no sympathy for fellow human beings, just because they do something different to you.

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kateash says...
8:13am Wed 18 Jan 12

Is it uncaring and unfeeling to say that all patients should value their health and give themselves the best possible outcome when they are in hospital or out of it? I care about all people's health. It is the smokers who couldnt care a jot for their own and sometimes other peoples health or they would make an attempt to quit! There is lots of help out there. Why should I have sympathy for someone who has repeated hospital admissions because of their refusal to quit smoking. It is stubborness on their part. I have seen it first hand as my mother and father both smoked in the days when people were not as aware of the dangers of smoking! They died very young as a result. People today know the dangers and as such should make every effort to quit! I care very deeply that people should not make the same mistake as my parents. But I have no sympathy for people who will not try to improve their health! I stand by the fact that the Trust should not encourage and condone smoking on Trust grounds. What people do in their own homes is up to them!

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BuckoTheMoose says...
11:23am Wed 18 Jan 12

Kateash - It's not for you to judge people or dictate how they should live their lives. Smoking is a choice for the smoker, not for you.

Fortunately for the NHS, I know and have spoken to nurses who have a much more caring attitude towards their patients and don't presume to judge or heckle people.

The Trust is getting complaints because smokers are standing in doorways. An internal smoking area is a perfectly good remedy to the situation. It's also a tolerant and understanding one. Qualities which you appear to lack.

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kateash says...
11:42am Wed 18 Jan 12

East lancs Trust is a non smoking Trust and as such it should stand by this not pander to smokers who think they have a right as usual to increase our workload. Smokers can smoke outside the hospital as much as they wish if they wish to kill themselves but not in the hospital! Smoking hampers a recovery period. Why do smokers think they have a right to smoke were ever they choose? Why do they think everyone should pander to them because they will not quit? Have you seen someone die gasping for breath from a lifetime of smoking? I have! Until you have you are not in a position to comment. As a nurse we treat everyone, me included, without question. But I repeat for the Trust to make a return to these internal smoking areas is a retrograde step. This is taken from a previous article:

THE shocking cost of East Lancashire’s chronic smoking problem has been revealed for the first time as £163million per year.
The area has some of the highest smoking rates and lowest lung cancer survival rates in the country, with around 1,000 deaths a year caused by the addiction.

Tell me again why we should have an internal smoking area so that these figures can be increased!

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BuckoTheMoose says...
11:56am Wed 18 Jan 12

Kateash - Those figures, supplied by ASH, the anti smoking lobby, are heavily inflated and largely rubbish. See here: http://tinyurl.com/3
fff5ax

Smokers do not think they have a right to smoke wherever they want. Smokers simply want a separate are that is not outside in the cold. It's not to much too ask for.

Dont tell me I cant comment until I have seen a dying person. We are all aware of the dangers of smoking. I have never been to the moon but I know it isn't made of cheese.

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happydaysagain says...
5:43pm Wed 18 Jan 12

I hope i never have to go in to hospital and be cared for by KATEASH he as you labled from the start wot an uncaring unfeeling nurse, how do you know we havent seen anybody die from smoking, so you would like to see patients die from hypothermia instead, and for you saying patients should not leave the wards excuse me but a hospital isnt a prison, so your saying patients should be held against there will n not leave the wards

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kateash says...
12:04pm Thu 19 Jan 12

If the patient is fit enough to go to the local shops in their dressing gown and go to the smoking yard then they are fit enough to go home and should not be taking up a bed for someone who desperately needs it.

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