Burnley children's ward to close with services moved to Blackburn (From Lancashire Telegraph)

This is just WRONG! 1) What about the travelling for families from Burnley? and 2) Aren't the facilities at Blackburn overstretched now? WRONG !!

And how is this meeting patient need? How can parents cope with all the travel (especially at £1.16 a litre) hold down a job and care for other children. I've only just read an article which stated that child care in hospitals is rubbish and this is just another example.

I'm sorry but it'll take a child to die before the trust will change their mind. They have an emergency stablisation bay at the urgent care centre but no paediatrician on hand to deal with the situation. But then the child has to be moved to either Blackburn or further afield. This move will put yet more strain on already overstretched ambulances services. This second rate care again for the people of east Lancashire it disgusts me because it is part of spending cuts. I personally knew bout the moves when announced & filled in the patient survey form that went to everyones house as well as all the ones I managed to get my hands on. But the prob was they looked like junk mail through the door & so many people deny they got them, but that's because they were badly designed so people threw them away. There's been plenty of meetings behind closed doors but I've not seen any public ones advertised. I feel sorry for the people at burnley as seconds count when you have an ill child, and I'm not sure marching in the streets would make a difference as they had the nerve to ignore the crys for burnley A&E. I really hope someone finds a way though.

Wrong decision. Why do these people not consider families without transport. It's bad enough getting from Accrington to RBH I dread to think how Burnley parents will cope. There was nothing wrong with every town having it's own hospital, its what we pay our taxes and NI for.
The decision makers need to wake up and get in the real world.

At a time when the government is spending millions of pounds on TV ads telling us to reduce our mileage, this move means people have to use their cars more. Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hands is doing!

Kitty Ussher, Burnley’s Labour MP, said she had known about the move since consultations began in 2006.!!!!!!!!!!

Disgusted at this latest move to turn not only Burnley General into a second rate service but also treating the people of Burnley as 2nd class citizens, because 1st class citizens deserve 1st class services & facilities. We are being given 2nd (and even worse service) so this is how everyone from our area must appear in the eyes of the authorities with all they are doing within Burnley catchment area. ALSO HOW SCANDALOUS a remark (which seems to be a throwaway one) by our so-called "Actively involved M.P." 'She has known about it since 2006' (above). What has she been doing about it since then??? Probably too busy misconstructing her expenses for her own welfare instead of looking after the interests of the people she represents. Truly a caring M.P. (I THINK NOT !!!) I now feel truly sorry for all those people with families who will be affected by this, unlike those in authority, only seeing us as a number. YES I am a number and like all people I have a mind, heart and needs. I also HAVE a NUMBER for "our carers" and it is UP in May

Meeting Patients’ Needs?

.

Don't make me laugh because this euphemism is beginning to sound as ridiculous as the ones that were hung over the entrances to Nazi concentration camps.

.

And Kitty Ussher, eh? She couldn't give a toss and will go down in history as the most useless MP that we've ever had.

.

The only 'good' thing to come out of this is the timing - just before a GE and this will give people the chance to show their disapproval by voting for anyone but Labour.


After all, this is happening on their clock just like the A&E closure!

Inter-Rossiter wrote:
Meeting Patients’ Needs?

.

Don't make me laugh because this euphemism is beginning to sound as ridiculous as the ones that were hung over the entrances to Nazi concentration camps.

.

And Kitty Ussher, eh? She couldn't give a toss and will go down in history as the most useless MP that we've ever had.

.

The only 'good' thing to come out of this is the timing - just before a GE and this will give people the chance to show their disapproval by voting for anyone but Labour.


After all, this is happening on their clock just like the A&E closure!

Unfortunately many of the people who are moaning will once again vote Labour at the next election.
Voting labour should carry a government health warning.

DaveBurnley wrote:

Inter-Rossiter wrote: Meeting Patients’ Needs? . Don't make me laugh because this euphemism is beginning to sound as ridiculous as the ones that were hung over the entrances to Nazi concentration camps. . And Kitty Ussher, eh? She couldn't give a toss and will go down in history as the most useless MP that we've ever had. . The only 'good' thing to come out of this is the timing - just before a GE and this will give people the chance to show their disapproval by voting for anyone but Labour. After all, this is happening on their clock just like the A&E closure!

Unfortunately many of the people who are moaning will once again vote Labour at the next election. Voting labour should carry a government health warning.

Fully agree with the remark about Kitty Ussher. But do not forget the 'not missed' Peter Pike. Would be interesting to see GB's and his coterie with their forehead stamped with the Govt. Health Warning you suggest. Wonder what it would say ? Damage not only your health but also your wealth, your country, your children's future, your education, your Army's welfare and anything that remotely represents humanity, honesty and ambition. Wow the list would be endless. Hope your prediction doesn't bear fruit

vintageclaret wrote:

DaveBurnley wrote:

Inter-Rossiter wrote: Meeting Patients’ Needs? . Don't make me laugh because this euphemism is beginning to sound as ridiculous as the ones that were hung over the entrances to Nazi concentration camps. . And Kitty Ussher, eh? She couldn't give a toss and will go down in history as the most useless MP that we've ever had. . The only 'good' thing to come out of this is the timing - just before a GE and this will give people the chance to show their disapproval by voting for anyone but Labour. After all, this is happening on their clock just like the A&E closure!

Unfortunately many of the people who are moaning will once again vote Labour at the next election. Voting labour should carry a government health warning.

Fully agree with the remark about Kitty Ussher. But do not forget the 'not missed' Peter Pike. Would be interesting to see GB's and his coterie with their forehead stamped with the Govt. Health Warning you suggest. Wonder what it would say ? Damage not only your health but also your wealth, your country, your children's future, your education, your Army's welfare and anything that remotely represents humanity, honesty and ambition. Wow the list would be endless. Hope your prediction doesn't bear fruit

Agree 110% regarding Kitty Ussher's failures.
But do feel that you are wrong to try and have a go at Peter Pike. He was retired before any of this started.

He was in the same position as YOU vintage claret. So what did YOU do to stop all of this happening? You had equal power to intervene, so if you think he should have done something, why didn't YOU!

I just feel that any finger pointing should be fair. Kitty was the person who had the power to fight and oppose the changes... she did nothing.

So get your facts right, before you commit libel.

This is not the only ward being moved to Blackburn. Word is dermatology is next to go. There will be nothing left of the hospital in burnley soon.

cazbly wrote:

vintageclaret wrote:

DaveBurnley wrote:

Inter-Rossiter wrote: Meeting Patients’ Needs? . Don't make me laugh because this euphemism is beginning to sound as ridiculous as the ones that were hung over the entrances to Nazi concentration camps. . And Kitty Ussher, eh? She couldn't give a toss and will go down in history as the most useless MP that we've ever had. . The only 'good' thing to come out of this is the timing - just before a GE and this will give people the chance to show their disapproval by voting for anyone but Labour. After all, this is happening on their clock just like the A&E closure!

Unfortunately many of the people who are moaning will once again vote Labour at the next election. Voting labour should carry a government health warning.

Fully agree with the remark about Kitty Ussher. But do not forget the 'not missed' Peter Pike. Would be interesting to see GB's and his coterie with their forehead stamped with the Govt. Health Warning you suggest. Wonder what it would say ? Damage not only your health but also your wealth, your country, your children's future, your education, your Army's welfare and anything that remotely represents humanity, honesty and ambition. Wow the list would be endless. Hope your prediction doesn't bear fruit

Agree 110% regarding Kitty Ussher's failures. But do feel that you are wrong to try and have a go at Peter Pike. He was retired before any of this started. He was in the same position as YOU vintage claret. So what did YOU do to stop all of this happening? You had equal power to intervene, so if you think he should have done something, why didn't YOU! I just feel that any finger pointing should be fair. Kitty was the person who had the power to fight and oppose the changes... she did nothing. So get your facts right, before you commit libel.

In response to your pompous sounding comment, firstly I would ask "What did you do?" On my own behalf I didn't then and now, never will vote for Labour under any circumstances. It was the ilk of Peter Pike & his predecessor Dan Jones (famous for saying) "Regardless of what the people of Burnley want, I will vote as I think fit or as my conscience dictates!" (Capital Punishment) Peter Pike rode into the job on the back of a "Labour Old Boy's club" having been Dan Jones agent for years not for his ability as a politician or his prowess. Furthermore, there is nothing libellous in any of my comments M.Ps. are supposed to respect and accord to the wishes of their constituents, I can't honestly remember Peter Pike doing anything of great importance for Burnley or its people. I don't hold with "having to airbrush out people's faults" because they have retired. By virtue of anyone having been and supportive of and continuance of any political affiliation they are tarred with the same brush.

This story makes me so angry. These people who make these wacko decisions are causing hell for everyone. Enough is enough! What can we do to put a stop to all this craziness?

Whats the betting that the crazy people making these dicissions live nowhere near Burnley so there could'nt give a hoot, as it doesnt affect them.
We are possibly flogging another dead horse here...we can shout an scream all we want, these people just DO NOT CARE

vintageclaret, Burnley
Well said !!
Peter Pike was just another pandering Jack straw, elected on the asian block vote.

well lets show how much we all care and how angry we all are this time and really come together to make our voices be heard as one; we are all united on this, lets organise something where people will really take notice and think, my god, look at how many people they are letting down by moving these services; there was so much more we could have done to make ourselves heard when they moved the a&e from burnley but unfortunately, it is quite one thing to be disgusted and rant and rave amongst ourselves at how let down we feel, but it is another to actually make your opinion count and heard and stand up for what you believe in; we could have had at least 50,000 people come together to protest at the moving of the a&e but we didn't, because, the majority of people round here can't be bothered, we took 38,000 people to wembley to support burnley in the play off final for christs sake, why can we not get 50,000 of us together to show how angry and let down we are???? gordon prentice, kitty usher, amongst others, should be organising worthwhile demonstrations like this and inviting the press, it should not be down to opinionated individuals like me to do it!!!

AND IN PAPERS TODAY,THE GOVERNMENTS JUST SPENT MILLIONS PRINTING FLYERS IN POLISH,TO ENCOURAGE ABORTION BY POLES IN THERE OWN COUNTRY TO FLY HERE AND GET IT DONE....THIS COUNTRYS GONE MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had to do the opposite journey from Blackburn to Burnley last year. I can't drive so had to take my 3 year old on public transport. Great fun that was and cost a fortune both in fares and time from work.
I Blackburn Royal, or whatever it's called, can't seem to cope with what it's already got. It is already having to use temporary buildings and the thing has not been fully open for that long.

There is a protest page on Facebook here:

http://www.facebook.
com/pages/Burnley/Bu
rnley-Childrens-Ward
-No-More-Cuts/402732
120449?ref=nf

A march is being organised ... more details once the police have given permission

The news that Burnley's Children's Ward is to be axed is disraceful, however, it should come as no big surprise. Over the next few years this Government intends to axe thousands of NHS jobs in a cost cutting exercise aimed at offloading it's ever increasing salary and pension responsibility. The results will be devastating to communities as we see an increase Nationally in the centralization of services and the closure of essential services locally in a bid to cut costs. Local G.P.'s & NHS workers are fully aware of what is happening but appear unwilling to stand up to their superiors and question what is going on for fear of certain reprisals. Time and time again we hear in the media that NHS staff have been told "Not To Comment". Staff within the NHS are browbeat, disillusioned and readily appear to have no voice. They are undervalued and never consulted. It's high time the NHS hierarchy showed some humility and listened to those they employ, not to mention the electorate they supposedly serve.
No-doubt whoever pulls this cost cutting exercise off will be rewarded with an OBE, paid a large pension & given another high salaried job in some other part of the country.
Now't changes does it ?

blyfan wrote:
Whats the betting that the crazy people making these dicissions live nowhere near Burnley so there could'nt give a hoot, as it doesnt affect them.
We are possibly flogging another dead horse here...we can shout an scream all we want, these people just DO NOT CARE

They are probably all on Bupa (paid for by us) so they don't have to mix with the great unwashed.

CraigSimpson wrote:
The news that Burnley's Children's Ward is to be axed is disraceful, however, it should come as no big surprise. Over the next few years this Government intends to axe thousands of NHS jobs in a cost cutting exercise aimed at offloading it's ever increasing salary and pension responsibility. The results will be devastating to communities as we see an increase Nationally in the centralization of services and the closure of essential services locally in a bid to cut costs. Local G.P.'s & NHS workers are fully aware of what is happening but appear unwilling to stand up to their superiors and question what is going on for fear of certain reprisals. Time and time again we hear in the media that NHS staff have been told "Not To Comment". Staff within the NHS are browbeat, disillusioned and readily appear to have no voice. They are undervalued and never consulted. It's high time the NHS hierarchy showed some humility and listened to those they employ, not to mention the electorate they supposedly serve. No-doubt whoever pulls this cost cutting exercise off will be rewarded with an OBE, paid a large pension & given another high salaried job in some other part of the country. Now't changes does it ?

Couldn't agree with you more especially the last part vis a vis Hierarchy, Honours & promotion. Rot starts at the top of the tree & then works its way down. Probably the decision maker(s) in this instance will have been guided by an over the top expensive consultancy company, costing twice the amount of savings they will make (& they will really believe they have made savings). What are the odds of soon to be deposed Burnley MP being given a top job with the Labour Party as a "Reward for all she has done in Burnley". Unfortunately in this day and age, savings are counted only against the value of the 'Suits' budgets, anything that affects this has to be removed. The cost in human suffering/discomfort is classed on their balance sheet is zero, unless of course something can be high profiled at a minimal cost to show "How good" they are.

I do not now work for the Trust, or the NHS but am aware of the issues.
Its important to recognise that this plan was within the Meeting Patient Need proposals its not new. After lots of debate MPN was approved, I accept many disagree with the decision - but they need to be realistic a change in Govt will not change it.
The most important thing is that children get the best care, smaller units have worst outcomes because the staff do not have the range of experience and exposure to the full range of conditions.
In many areas of the country people have to travel distances to get to Hospital, the most important factor for successful treatment is its quality not the distance involved. Compare mortality rates now with the period before the closure of A&E and you will see they have reduced.
We all have a responsibility for the NHS and its right to challenge decisions, but to dismiss the experts is naive.
If the condition is urgent an ambulance can be called, if its not I am afraid that as a parent its my responsibility to get my child to Hospital, its one of the responsibilities I took when I had children.

Independent view wrote:
I do not now work for the Trust, or the NHS but am aware of the issues. Its important to recognise that this plan was within the Meeting Patient Need proposals its not new. After lots of debate MPN was approved, I accept many disagree with the decision - but they need to be realistic a change in Govt will not change it. The most important thing is that children get the best care, smaller units have worst outcomes because the staff do not have the range of experience and exposure to the full range of conditions. In many areas of the country people have to travel distances to get to Hospital, the most important factor for successful treatment is its quality not the distance involved. Compare mortality rates now with the period before the closure of A&E and you will see they have reduced. We all have a responsibility for the NHS and its right to challenge decisions, but to dismiss the experts is naive. If the condition is urgent an ambulance can be called, if its not I am afraid that as a parent its my responsibility to get my child to Hospital, its one of the responsibilities I took when I had children.

I'll agree with your comment children (as do all ill people) need the best quality of care. I cannot comment on that not being in the medical profession. Howevr, I strongly disagree with your comment regarding distances to travel & ambulances. i) Availability of ambulances as and when urgently required - there should be adequate ii) Distances travelled - what about someone say at far end of Colne where the Royal is the designated hopsital - thye have to be located - wait for an ambulance and then literally full length of M65 before treatment iii) What else is also not made know is how many mortalities take place during the journey. I am told these cannot be registered as being on the way but are shown to be deaths at the hospital - another cover up to justify decisions. How many needless deaths must occur before there is a wake up???

vintageclaret wrote:

Independent view wrote: I do not now work for the Trust, or the NHS but am aware of the issues. Its important to recognise that this plan was within the Meeting Patient Need proposals its not new. After lots of debate MPN was approved, I accept many disagree with the decision - but they need to be realistic a change in Govt will not change it. The most important thing is that children get the best care, smaller units have worst outcomes because the staff do not have the range of experience and exposure to the full range of conditions. In many areas of the country people have to travel distances to get to Hospital, the most important factor for successful treatment is its quality not the distance involved. Compare mortality rates now with the period before the closure of A&E and you will see they have reduced. We all have a responsibility for the NHS and its right to challenge decisions, but to dismiss the experts is naive. If the condition is urgent an ambulance can be called, if its not I am afraid that as a parent its my responsibility to get my child to Hospital, its one of the responsibilities I took when I had children.

I'll agree with your comment children (as do all ill people) need the best quality of care. I cannot comment on that not being in the medical profession. Howevr, I strongly disagree with your comment regarding distances to travel & ambulances. i) Availability of ambulances as and when urgently required - there should be adequate ii) Distances travelled - what about someone say at far end of Colne where the Royal is the designated hopsital - thye have to be located - wait for an ambulance and then literally full length of M65 before treatment iii) What else is also not made know is how many mortalities take place during the journey. I am told these cannot be registered as being on the way but are shown to be deaths at the hospital - another cover up to justify decisions. How many needless deaths must occur before there is a wake up???

"Well said Vintage Claret."
Independent of Edenfield is obviously pro cutting services, but you'll note: Edenfield is a lot nearer Blackburn than say Colne.
It's a load of baloney to say patients needs are better served in Blackburn than in Burnley. Distance travelled does matter. Relocating services to Blackburn puts added pressure on everyone. Blackburn has a massive catchment area and the quality of care must buckle under the strain of widening it's health responsibility. People have spent 60 years building up the quality of their local Hospitals and services locally. Why should their needs be better met by another town. We are proud of our facilities in Burnley. Just why should "smaller childrens units" equate to inferior outcomes ? Staff in Burnley have a wealth of experience, as do the staff of countless local hospitals.
I have worked within the NHS for almost two decades and I have found your "so called" experts have no ears. Meeting Patient Needs, Charter Marks, Equal Opportunities Employer, Safeguarding Children etc, etc, are just boxes on noteheaded paper, there to be ticked to make someone somewhere look as if things are improving. The reality is far from the experts knowing what is best for local communities. Local people know what they want, and it does not include the rapid deterioration of their Hospitals. What is happening is nothing short of Grand Theft, Asset Stripping on a major scale. Our much needed local health care providers are being systematically centralized, before long our esteemed NHS will be a shadow of it's former self. Shrunken to the point nobody notices it slip silently into memory.
We need to stop those who proclaim to have our "best interests" at heart from selling-off our CHILDRENS HEALTH.

CraigSimpson wrote:

vintageclaret wrote:

Independent view wrote: I do not now work for the Trust, or the NHS but am aware of the issues. Its important to recognise that this plan was within the Meeting Patient Need proposals its not new. After lots of debate MPN was approved, I accept many disagree with the decision - but they need to be realistic a change in Govt will not change it. The most important thing is that children get the best care, smaller units have worst outcomes because the staff do not have the range of experience and exposure to the full range of conditions. In many areas of the country people have to travel distances to get to Hospital, the most important factor for successful treatment is its quality not the distance involved. Compare mortality rates now with the period before the closure of A&E and you will see they have reduced. We all have a responsibility for the NHS and its right to challenge decisions, but to dismiss the experts is naive. If the condition is urgent an ambulance can be called, if its not I am afraid that as a parent its my responsibility to get my child to Hospital, its one of the responsibilities I took when I had children.

I'll agree with your comment children (as do all ill people) need the best quality of care. I cannot comment on that not being in the medical profession. Howevr, I strongly disagree with your comment regarding distances to travel & ambulances. i) Availability of ambulances as and when urgently required - there should be adequate ii) Distances travelled - what about someone say at far end of Colne where the Royal is the designated hopsital - thye have to be located - wait for an ambulance and then literally full length of M65 before treatment iii) What else is also not made know is how many mortalities take place during the journey. I am told these cannot be registered as being on the way but are shown to be deaths at the hospital - another cover up to justify decisions. How many needless deaths must occur before there is a wake up???

"Well said Vintage Claret." Independent of Edenfield is obviously pro cutting services, but you'll note: Edenfield is a lot nearer Blackburn than say Colne. It's a load of baloney to say patients needs are better served in Blackburn than in Burnley. Distance travelled does matter. Relocating services to Blackburn puts added pressure on everyone. Blackburn has a massive catchment area and the quality of care must buckle under the strain of widening it's health responsibility. People have spent 60 years building up the quality of their local Hospitals and services locally. Why should their needs be better met by another town. We are proud of our facilities in Burnley. Just why should "smaller childrens units" equate to inferior outcomes ? Staff in Burnley have a wealth of experience, as do the staff of countless local hospitals. I have worked within the NHS for almost two decades and I have found your "so called" experts have no ears. Meeting Patient Needs, Charter Marks, Equal Opportunities Employer, Safeguarding Children etc, etc, are just boxes on noteheaded paper, there to be ticked to make someone somewhere look as if things are improving. The reality is far from the experts knowing what is best for local communities. Local people know what they want, and it does not include the rapid deterioration of their Hospitals. What is happening is nothing short of Grand Theft, Asset Stripping on a major scale. Our much needed local health care providers are being systematically centralized, before long our esteemed NHS will be a shadow of it's former self. Shrunken to the point nobody notices it slip silently into memory. We need to stop those who proclaim to have our "best interests" at heart from selling-off our CHILDRENS HEALTH.

I also forgot to question Independent's view. i.e their comment regarding small units. a) I would hardly have called the Edith Watson Unit small (until the suits began to interfere) b) As can be seen in other examples "Big is not always best". Smaller concentrated units where the staff are 'hands on' fully aware of their patients has to be much better. If the NHS's (shall we use one of their buzz terms) aim is "Primal Patient Care Concern" then focalised attention must be the way of giving it. Not & I stress Not in oversized, overburdened, over administrated hospitals such as the Royal. It shows there is no caring concern for human beings by the suits in what happens when they fail - I am Burnley born, bred and lived my whole life here - when the time comes for me to shuffle off this mortal coil (odds are it will be in a hospital) I want it to be in my home town, when my family have to register my death I want it to be a) Registered in Burnley b) I don't want them having to go through the harrowing experience of having to go to Blackburn to do so. I am told this is what has to be done. Care & consideration for people - don't make me laugh, more like crying