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East Lancashire snow: Storm over gritting

SNOW JOKE: Coun David Whipp with empty grit bin SNOW JOKE: Coun David Whipp with empty grit bin

A 'LACK of grit' in residential areas has left roads and pavements 'horrendous' - but the on-street bins won't be re-filled for up to a week.

Only a third of highways are being treated, leaving side roads and cul-de-sacs in a 'horrific' state with more wintery conditions expected in the run-up to Christmas.

Yesterday thousands of bin collections were cancelled for a week because lorries could not access the streets, and taxi drivers said they had been unable to respond to callouts.

Medics reported a busy day in the Accident and Emergency department and the number of shunts reported doubled as drivers battled into work.

One council is considering introducing lockable grit bins because residents are taking the salt to use on their own driveways.

Lancashire County Council only has around two days' worth of rock salt still remaining in its Burnley depot, but highways manager Duncan Reeve insisted more was on its way.

Yesterday he said: "We have been out all day, and there is more severe weather forecast.

"We have to keep on treating the roads."

Mr Reeve said grit bins were being refilled on a rotation basis but added: "As fast as we are filling them they are getting emptied."

He said it would take around a week for a grit bin to be refilled on the current rota.

Bosses were left cursing yesterday morning's snow downpour, which ruined much of the overnight gritting work by covering the salt before cars could grind it into the road surface.

Lancashire and Blackburn with Darwen councils, which together are responsible for all the area's roads, say they grit around 35 per cent of the network, focusing on key A roads and bus routes.

Lancashire has 22 gritting lorries in use in East Lancashire - by far the worst-hit part of the county - and Blackburn with Darwen's four trucks, equipped with snowploughs, are all in use.

According to the AA, the Audit Commission recommends an average of 38 per cent of the road network should be covered.

But the absence of gritting on minor roads and the lack of grit in bins of street coroner has badly hit estates across East Lancashire.

Disabled Albert Monaghan, 61, said his home off New Wellington Street, Mill Hill, Blackburn, had become cut off because no gritting had taken place and grit bins were empty.

Mr Monaghan, who lives in an old people's development, said: "I haven't been outside for days.

"I use a disability scooter and I have no chance out in the snow.

"I can't believe there's no grit and so many roads have just been ignored."

Makbul Patel, vice chairman of Blackburn's Hackney Carriage Association, said: "The council has only been gritting the main roads.

"We have been doing our best, but the roads have been horrendous."

The lack of taxis hit trade at FJ Nichols pub, Northgate, Blackburn, where only 100 of an expected 500 people turned up to a Christmas event.

General manager Chris Wooddissee said: "I don't blame the taxi drivers.

"It was almost impossible to drive in Blackburn. The roads were horrific.

"There didn't seem to be any gritting taking place."

Coun Alan Cottam, the regeneration boss at Blackburn with Darwen Council, said he 'deplored' people taking the grit for their private driveways and said bins that could be locked - with a key given to a resident to manage - were being considered.

And environment director Peter Hunt added: "We have about 400 grit bins, and I am sure every single one is empty now.

"We are filling them up, but not a great deal of it goes on the highways."

Coun Malcolm Pritchard, who sits on Hyndburn Council and Lancashire County Council, said: "The bus routes seem clear but everything else is a real problem.

"I didn't even bother to go outside on Sunday because there just wasn't any point.

"There was very little grit and all of the side roads were dangerous."

Residents in Pendle, where four inches of snow fell in half an hour, said they felt they have been given the 'cold shoulder' by gritters, leaving their streets and pavements dangerous.

One campaigner called for the county council's gritting boss to resign over the latest 'shambles' in the county saying that secondary streets had been left treacherous because grit bins were empty.

Coun David Whipp said: "The gritting service is a shambles.

"The grit bins have laid empty for days and nothing has been done about it.

"No lessons have been learned from problems last year."

Town councillor Jenny Purcell said when her husband Harry, 72, fell ill yesterday with a suspected aneurysm and ambulance crews struggled to reach them at their home in Gisburn Road, Barnoldswick, due to untreated roads.

She said: "We have had no grit for a week and that is unacceptable.

"I blame the county council because the situation has been handled very badly.

"The roads have been atrocious. We were very lucky that the ambulance crews did a fantastic job to get to us and get Harry to hospital in very difficult circumstances."

He is now awaiting diagnosis at Airedale Hospital.

Burnley Council leader Gordon Birtwistle said he had made several calls to County Hall highways officers over the weekend about the state of the borough's snow-covered sidestreets and pavements.

He said: "The main roads in Burnley and Padiham have been gritted and I have got no issue with them, but the sideroads and pavements are treacherous.

"As well as that, the grit bins are all empty and it seems as if drivers have been helping themselves to the grit inside.

"My concern is for elderly residents."

In Rossendale Coun Dorothy Farrington said that many grit bins have been empty for more than a week.

She said: "I have been calling the county council since Thursday and I have still not seen any.

"The whole issue has been handled very badly and it feels like Rossendale really copped it this time.

"We have not been getting what we are supposed to be getting to keep ourselves safe."

About 8,000 households in Blackburn and Darwen will have to wait another week for their rubbish to be collected, with a similar amount expected to be affected today, after refuse lorries were forced to return to the depot.

Comments(32)

burner says...
10:22am Tue 22 Dec 09

Yesterday a GREAT BIG BIN WAGON pulled up on the road outside my house, just about five feet from my wheelie bin. A guy climbed out of the GREAT BIG BIN WAGON and walked over to my bin. He left me a sack ( ta!, Santa ) and a note which told me that they could not empty my bin today because they could not get a bin wagon along our road. He climbed back into his GREAT BIG BIN WAGON aand did the same next door.
.
.
I live on a main road and they could easily have emptied all the bins there. I KNOW they couldn't get up side roads. But . . . . ???????

DeeBee43 says...
10:24am Tue 22 Dec 09

Residents of the Regents Park estate in Lower Darwen have discovered that the estate has not been adopted by the Council and is therefore not receiving any supplies of grit. Apparently this is the responsibilty of the developers, Barratt Homes, who have said "they will see what they can do"!!

Does this mean residents are paying Council Tax for something that is not being delivered, and would a refund be given???

slackerbtch says...
10:32am Tue 22 Dec 09

No, you're paying Council Tax for all the other services that are required, some of which you will not use, and some of it you will.

Seeing as the road you live on is a private road, why should the council be liable to clear it?

In fact, if all the whingers on here want every side road gritting, then you will need to quadruple the number of gritters and increase tenfold the amount of grit in store; not to mention footing the bill in your council tax...

Mikeee47 says...
10:57am Tue 22 Dec 09

No salt bins hardly anywhere Ive had to drive round looking for salt bins, Typical example of the state of this town & country, brought to it's knees by a snow fall, it's the 21st century, I see my council tax bill increasing for 2010, but we all get less & less for our money,

Mikeee47 says...
11:05am Tue 22 Dec 09

slackerbtch wrote:
No, you're paying Council Tax for all the other services that are required, some of which you will not use, and some of it you will. Seeing as the road you live on is a private road, why should the council be liable to clear it? In fact, if all the whingers on here want every side road gritting, then you will need to quadruple the number of gritters and increase tenfold the amount of grit in store; not to mention footing the bill in your council tax...
Years ago on the old rate system we had more services for less money, explain to me please, how with all the extra money form the extortionate council tax, why we have all these cuts,
cut back on parks & recreation, bins only emptied once in 2 weeks, no gritters no salt, no Police!!! cut bacts to fire service do I need to go on????

onlyonesimongarner says...
11:40am Tue 22 Dec 09

Mikeee47 wrote:
slackerbtch wrote:
No, you're paying Council Tax for all the other services that are required, some of which you will not use, and some of it you will. Seeing as the road you live on is a private road, why should the council be liable to clear it? In fact, if all the whingers on here want every side road gritting, then you will need to quadruple the number of gritters and increase tenfold the amount of grit in store; not to mention footing the bill in your council tax...
Years ago on the old rate system we had more services for less money, explain to me please, how with all the extra money form the extortionate council tax, why we have all these cuts,
cut back on parks & recreation, bins only emptied once in 2 weeks, no gritters no salt, no Police!!! cut bacts to fire service do I need to go on????
Sorry to be the Doom Bringer, but it is going to an awful lot worse this time next year.
If you had any clue what is around the corner, you would be terrified .

The country is BROKE

sec word "hope-land". What a joke

ewoodman says...
11:52am Tue 22 Dec 09

It always amazes me that when a little bit of snow falls people cannot cope, and complain about the lack of grit....
Has anyone been to Scandinavia, Canada etc?? They do not grit and they do not have trouble.....
Its only the ones who do not understand how to drive in these conditions that complain!
FFS its only snow!

PS Salt is no use below about -2 degrees anyway as it will STILL freeze. The sea will freeze at -3!!

CapitaBackHander says...
11:59am Tue 22 Dec 09

I have just used the rock salt I bought from B&Q last year. where needs gritting if you are driving around for grit? Go and buy some if for private use. The amount of people I have seen gritting pavements with council grit. Walking on fresh snow is safe! The ice underneath is the problem!

spoonfullofsugar says...
12:20pm Tue 22 Dec 09

if we have not got enough staff to grit the roads and pavements get the bin men who are still being paid to sit on there behinds to get a spade and start clearing the footpaths, i cant believe so called councillers on here whinning on, get out and do what your supposed to do and represent your community instead of thinkining of yourself, i'm sure you will put expences in for your comments to the paper! in fact get the dole scrounging gets to switch the electric fires off and earn their money, radical!!! eh no wonder the country is on its knees everyone passes the responcibility if we all did a bit it would not be a big issue, get on with it you bunch of whinners

steve18gls says...
12:52pm Tue 22 Dec 09

I personally think that the council and their employees do a great job with the snowploughs. What do you think it would be like with no gritters out at all.

Richard_Nelson says...
1:50pm Tue 22 Dec 09

What a sham, wasn't it Lancashire county council that said last year this would not happen again after they had the wrong grit? When they say about people taking the grit, try living in terrace housing, we have all been using it to clear the street so the elderly can at least get to the local newsagents. It's disgusting and I think someone from the council should take responsibility (such as one of the county councillors). Most were re-elected in May and not one had throught to come up with an action plan since then for when it snows. There is plenty of young people who are not working who could help clear the streets but no these fat cat councillors all sit on there back sides doing nothing about it. No wonder Lancashire county council has a bad rep. Bring the gritting services back to Pendle!!!

True Darwener says...
2:07pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Surely it's about time that we do not get caught out all the winter time, how come the weather men etc tell us we are going to get a bad spell of snow and ice etc and we can not coupe with it at anytime etc. Why are the salt bins not check and filled if need too also why do the Council not have enough grit wagons so once they have done the Motorways and Bus routes then they can do the side streets etc. Why dose this Government not get the long term Unemployment people and those on other Benefits to clear the pavements etc as they will be putting something back into the community and helping the elderly and disabled people to get out etc.

Izanears says...
2:13pm Tue 22 Dec 09

When one hears cries about shortage of funds, do not forget that Gordon Brown has pledged 1.5 billion pounds of our money to other countries to deal with climate change. Also if one hears about no money to pay staff, the government has just appointed 200 people whose sole job is to encourage
members of the ethnic minorities to visit places such as Dartmoor, Exmoor, the South Downs etc.
Apropos those who grumble about people using salt/sand for their drives, some drives where I live are very steep, and without the grit, people would not get their cars out.
Ironically, the security word for this post is PUSH-HELP!!!!!

spongsdad says...
2:25pm Tue 22 Dec 09

So many things to comment on. Sorry, Ewoodman but they do grit in Canada and they have a priority system-well documented for-ensuring that main highways are kept open. Apropos the grit bins; what are they for, if not for gritting in the immediate vicinity? How bizarre of local councillors to complain that locals have been "stealing" the grit.
Just think for a moment how much money is saved if just one person avoids being taken to A&E as a result of a fall. The problem is that we have no joined -up government in this country, although I guess there may be rare exceptions. Only this lunchtime I heard of an NHS trust in NE England,investing £1 million in gritting in their local authority area. They reckoned that the reduction in casualties gave them a good rate of return on their investment.

DeeBee43 says...
2:36pm Tue 22 Dec 09

No, you're paying Council Tax for all the other services that are required, some of which you will not use, and some of it you will.

Seeing as the road you live on is a private road, why should the council be liable to clear it?
"

You are missing the point I was trying to make - the residents were not aware this estate, some of it 10 years old, was still the "owned" by the developers. I am not whinging about the council, who I think have done a pretty good job on keeping the major roads free. I was coming from the point of view of a neighbour who slipped on the untreated road and ended up in hospital, the ambulance having struggled to reach him.

akon says...
3:16pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Global warming my arse !!
I'm freezing my boll*cks off....

Davidoff says...
3:39pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Just goes to show that this country really isn't in any way capable of dealing with a potentially real national emergency if how the hysteria surrounding a snow fall arrives regularly as clockwork is anything to go by. I remember PROPER snow, back in the early 70s to at least the late 80s when we had deep snow. Everything ran smoothly or appeared to back then. We went to school. And we were only sent home from our school because many pupils lived in the Hodder Valley and outlying villages in the Ribble Valley accessible by country lanes.

As for the disabled gentleman in the report. You are wasting your time, councils couldn't give a flying fig if you were able bodied or disabled.

I've been looking round Darwen since all this snow began. I can easily see where grit has been put and where it's not been put.

Now, I wonder how this country would react if it ever faced a real national state of emergency if it can't cope with snow like this? Government knows by now how our weather changes here, where we are situated in the northern hemisphere and, by now, councils should be more prepared. Fact is, I see the same chaos year in year out. This is the heaviest and prolonged period I've seen for many a year where it's lasted more than a day. And, unlike many previous years, it's actually FREEZING, some winters have been comparitively mild and snow has come after Christmas into January lasting to the end of March. It would seem, then, that at least this year, we are getting the weather we/you should expect in a winter season.

Now, should a flood come along or anything else in the country that really threatens our existence I would be interested to see how everyone copes. Would we? Or would we all be reading the hysteria about things like swine flu in the media, believing we were all going to die by the end of the year yadda yadda, or would we simply go out, learn for ourselves and then do something about it?

BTW, are the trains running properly at all? Just wondered. One flake of snow on the lines round here and it's third world services all round. But even in a third world country they manage to cope. Why can't we?

Bess1e says...
4:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Apropos those who grumble about people using salt/sand for their drives, some drives where I live are very steep, and without the grit, people would not get their cars out.

So what - don't buy a house with a steep drive. My neighbours have purloined grit from the roadside bins and now there's none to put on the road - so they can get their cars out of their drives but can't go anywhere as the roads haven't been gritted!

NoPolitics says...
4:46pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Here' a chance for you, how many gritters do you want, how often do you want the salt bins filling,(supposing a wagon can get to them). which roads do you want as a priority (Hospitals etc), how many people should be employed on winter maintenance. each additional Gritter + Driver costs £100,000 per year. Filling Salt bins constantly Wagon + man, £1,000 per week, Bring in hired Gritters and men @ £2,500 per week (but you won't get them because everyone else wants them too). 400 Salt bins in BwD multiply that by 12 = 4800, Number of wagons and men to fill them 48 = £48,000 to fill salt bins so the blue rinse brigade who have steep drives can get theit BMW's out. Add the cost of salt and supervision then you will have a difficult decision to make, do we do it or get to it with the stretched resources available to us now. It is no good all these Councillors getting on the band wagon and telling everyone what they should be doing, how much should be added to the Council Tax so that a reasonable service at a reasonable cost can be provided. Remember these gritters only get used for a few weeks per year.

RAyzer says...
4:56pm Tue 22 Dec 09

same script as last year..no gritt,councill tax up,same lies as exuses...we give to much of our cash to other countrys,whilst ours suffers...mps and councillers get pay rises whilst we suffer....they knew in advance about the weather,so whats there excuses....??

RAyzer says...
5:00pm Tue 22 Dec 09

some clown above said were moaning???hang on a min,we pay MEGA TAXeS and get nothing in return,first bit of snow and countrys on its kness,not just around here,everywere....br
own look after BRITAIN first!!!stop trying to solve every other countrys probs,our countrys on it knees...labour couldnt run a booze up in a brewery...

LowerDarwenResident says...
5:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Hi Deebee,

I asked the council a few years ago why Regent's Park had not been adopted (trying to get a streetlight replaced and the grit bins filled).
Their response was that it would not be adopted by them until the water board adopted the drains, so I rang United Utilities to ask why I was paying them for a service that they had not adopted...and proceeded to get nowhere quickly!
The council contacted Barratts for the light, and a bag of grit magically appeared a few days later.
Since then Simarc have taken over the ground rent so I wonder where we go now?

Mikeee47 says...
5:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09

ewoodman wrote:
It always amazes me that when a little bit of snow falls people cannot cope, and complain about the lack of grit.... Has anyone been to Scandinavia, Canada etc?? They do not grit and they do not have trouble..... Its only the ones who do not understand how to drive in these conditions that complain! FFS its only snow! PS Salt is no use below about -2 degrees anyway as it will STILL freeze. The sea will freeze at -3!!
I challenge you to drive up our hill I'll bet my house on it you wont make it a 1/3 the way up, nothing to do with bad driving when the snow has compacted to a sheet of ice no one can drive up it, stop making silly comments

Mikeee47 says...
6:13pm Tue 22 Dec 09

NoPolitics wrote:
Here' a chance for you, how many gritters do you want, how often do you want the salt bins filling,(supposing a wagon can get to them). which roads do you want as a priority (Hospitals etc), how many people should be employed on winter maintenance. each additional Gritter + Driver costs £100,000 per year. Filling Salt bins constantly Wagon + man, £1,000 per week, Bring in hired Gritters and men @ £2,500 per week (but you won't get them because everyone else wants them too). 400 Salt bins in BwD multiply that by 12 = 4800, Number of wagons and men to fill them 48 = £48,000 to fill salt bins so the blue rinse brigade who have steep drives can get theit BMW's out. Add the cost of salt and supervision then you will have a difficult decision to make, do we do it or get to it with the stretched resources available to us now. It is no good all these Councillors getting on the band wagon and telling everyone what they should be doing, how much should be added to the Council Tax so that a reasonable service at a reasonable cost can be provided. Remember these gritters only get used for a few weeks per year.
Stop employing sub contractors etc . when everything was done in house, ie with total council empoyees the bin men were paid overtime plus the hgv mechanics empoyed by the council to drive the gritters, now everything has been sold off, we been sold down the swanny just like the country , & why, because we let it get that way.. Vote the right way in the next election, ask the questions what your local MP is going to promise to do, ask them to put it in writing , Its up to us to make this country great again,
No Police, cut back fire service, Merging of schools, cut back on cleansing, cut back on parks & recreation, Sold our A&E down the swanny, cut backs on salt do I need to go on &on & On etc etc etc.
I'll guarantee the same will happen next year too,

CapitaBackHander says...
6:37pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Mikeee47 wrote:
ewoodman wrote: It always amazes me that when a little bit of snow falls people cannot cope, and complain about the lack of grit.... Has anyone been to Scandinavia, Canada etc?? They do not grit and they do not have trouble..... Its only the ones who do not understand how to drive in these conditions that complain! FFS its only snow! PS Salt is no use below about -2 degrees anyway as it will STILL freeze. The sea will freeze at -3!!
I challenge you to drive up our hill I'll bet my house on it you wont make it a 1/3 the way up, nothing to do with bad driving when the snow has compacted to a sheet of ice no one can drive up it, stop making silly comments
They have snow chains as the roads are covered. You can hardly put snow chains on when the roads are hit and miss treated.... Snow tyres but means extra set of wheels and tyres for maybe 1 week max of snow.... Daft comment...

Michael@ClitheroeSince58 says...
6:55pm Tue 22 Dec 09

New Labour, New Danger

Graham Hartley says...
9:10pm Tue 22 Dec 09

There remains beneath Cheshire quite enough salt for this purpose, and thanks to mining and management of its supply there's quite enough on the surface. Quite why Jesus' father arranged for its deposition hundreds of feet below the surface some two hundred million years ago is an unresolved mystery in human affairs.

alcypop says...
9:22pm Tue 22 Dec 09

good grief it's winter and everyone complaining about weather and assumed lack of help froum council.can people not realise there is only so much grit in a bin?What really puzzles me is how do snow plough drivers get to work-answers please!

morerover says...
10:00pm Tue 22 Dec 09

A slight rainshower on the iced roads was all it needed for Clitheroe to become cut off this evening! All roads in and out were impassable-Q plod and gritting lorry slipping into action long after the horse had tobogganed out of t' stable....

non whingher says...
11:35pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Well what a sad lot of people there are out there just to think that Blackburn is built on a hill what do people expect of grit do they think that it is a magic powder that once sprinkled it makes the world right do people not realise that since the weather deteriated i bet more than a thousand tons of salt as been put down on the roads in blackburn and the borough i live off one of the steepest streets in blackburn and i am just glad that i can get within a hundred yards of my home previous comments are right walking on untouched snow is a lot easier "well done to all the gritter drivers and thanks for doing what you can" i am sure that concentrating on getting to the hospitals or any of the emergancy services is more important than getting off a drive way especially when there is no need to go anywhere, there is enough warnings on the media not to go out if its not needed and i cant believe the picture on the front of the telegraph looking down one of the streets off preston new road can you imagine a 20 ton gritting vehicle going down there and losing control the loss of life and property just so joe blogs can get out get a life folk and be thankful for what your getting and lets hope the salt fairy appears keep up the good work all you gritter drivers ignore anything that people say they do not know what they are talking about sad sad people if they only thought about it

BabsJ says...
2:35pm Wed 23 Dec 09

In spite of the fact that we live on a bend on a hill, our road has not been gritted. We are pensioners who claim nothing but basic state pension and pay almost £2000 per year council tax. We have not had this problem in other years. Not good enough really, is it?

RAyzer says...
12:24pm Thu 24 Dec 09

hands up the mugs that voted labour...stop moaning if you did,didnt happen when torys were in power..ALL ROADS WERE GRITTED not just main roads....labour to busy helping every other country bar ours....

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