Public consulted on threat to bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen

Public consulted on threat to bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen

Public consulted on threat to bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen

First published in News Lancashire Telegraph: Photograph of the Author by , Local government reporter

SIXTEEN bus routes in Blackburn with Darwen could see evening and Sunday services axed if the borough goes ahead with plans to slash subsidies to operators.

Council highways boss Maureen Bateson yesterday announced a review of the cash paid to private bus operators to keep loss-making services running.

The planned changes would affect route numbers 3, 12, 14, 5A, 5C, 37, 4A, 4B, 22, D1, D2, D3, D4, D6, 8, and the 8A.

The borough’s public transport network is provided by a range of private companies with the council subsidising some services.

Due to reductions in Whitehall grants, Coun Bateson is reviewing which services and routes it currently pays for should continue.

Now she wants residents’ views on the proposals in a consultation which will run until Friday, January 31.

A similar consultation by Lancashire County Council on proposals to scrap subsidies for all loss-making Sunday, Bank Holiday and evening bus services on 72 routes, including 37 in the east of the county, ends on Friday.

They include services right across Pendle, Rossendale, Ribble Valley and Chorley including ‘The Main Line’ route from Clitheroe to Barnoldswick and services into Blackburn.

Some of the borough routes under threat would see evenings and Sunday services removed from April 1 while others would be safe until April 2015.

The major operator Transdev has said any loss of evening and Sunday bus services is worrying as many passengers using buses during the day rely on evening services to get home.

Brian Todd, of Blackburn with Darwen Older People’s Forum, said: “This is alarming. Older people will be put off using buses. They need to get back in the evening as well as go out in the day when the weather gets better.”

Coun Bateson said: “We are in really tough times at the moment and we are facing more cuts to our overall budget. Good public transport is a priority for the council. I know how important it is, I am a frequent user of buses.

“We have to look carefully at what we spend and the public transport review is part of that.

“We have to make cuts but I want the travelling public to have their say.”

Services affected

3 Revidge and 12/14 Highercroft Sunnybower late on Monday to Saturday evenings and Sunday early evening 5A/5C Blackburn Outer Circle on Monday to Friday evenings: 20:22 Anti-clockwise from Intack 20:05 Clockwise from Intack Saturday and Sunday: 12:00 and 19:00 Anti-clockwise from Intack 11:44 and 19:44 Clockwise from Intack 37 Darwen to Bromley Cross via Edgworth Edgworth to Bromley Cross element of the service with the service reverting to serving Darwen – Blacksnape – Edgworth – Chapeltown - Darwen.

4A, 4B Blackburn to Mill Hill / Leyburn Road on Sunday early evenings: 18:09 and 19:09 Blackburn to Leyburn Road and return 22 Blackburn to Shadsworth /RBH/Audley on Monday to Saturday evenings: 23:05 Blackburn to Shadsworth journey Sunday early evenings: 18:00 Blackburn to Shadsworth and return 19:00 Blackburn to Shadsworth D1 Sunnyhurst/ D2 Pothouse / Hoddlesden / D3 Bold Venture/ D4 Birch Hall/ D6 Spring Vale / Cranberry Close: Monday to Saturday: 17:00 journey Monday to Friday: 07:20, 07:40, 08:35, 17:20 journeys Monday to Friday: 07:50 and 08:00 journies Monday to Friday: 16:35 journey 8, 8A Audley / Hereford Road: Possibility of reduction in service frequency and amendments to route

Comments (17)

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3:47pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Benjamin James says...

I'm assuming something has affected the number 1 service lately though?

I would say 3 days this year so far I've got on a bus which has come at the designated time (or it was late/early for another time) I stand at the bus stop from 9:25am (usually just missing the previous bus) and there's no bus showing up until 9:50am. Meanwhile in that time 3 buses should have shown up and 3 buses have gone past the other side into Darwen.

If anything the bus services need to get their timetables right. If I had one bus to get in the space of half an hour in the morning, that's fine by me not an issue but when i'm staring at a piece of paper behind some plexiglass that says "yeah mate, don't worry there's one every 7 minutes you'll get to work on time" kinda **** me off like anyone else.

I have a professional duty to ensure I get myself to work on time. But how can it be my fault if i'm setting off to work over 45 minutes before I need to be in for a ten minute ride into town and in that time I still get to work an hour after I set off. Transdev need to get their act together.
I'm assuming something has affected the number 1 service lately though? I would say 3 days this year so far I've got on a bus which has come at the designated time (or it was late/early for another time) I stand at the bus stop from 9:25am (usually just missing the previous bus) and there's no bus showing up until 9:50am. Meanwhile in that time 3 buses should have shown up and 3 buses have gone past the other side into Darwen. If anything the bus services need to get their timetables right. If I had one bus to get in the space of half an hour in the morning, that's fine by me not an issue but when i'm staring at a piece of paper behind some plexiglass that says "yeah mate, don't worry there's one every 7 minutes you'll get to work on time" kinda **** me off like anyone else. I have a professional duty to ensure I get myself to work on time. But how can it be my fault if i'm setting off to work over 45 minutes before I need to be in for a ten minute ride into town and in that time I still get to work an hour after I set off. Transdev need to get their act together. Benjamin James
  • Score: 17

3:53pm Thu 16 Jan 14

frank says...

i sometimes wonder if transdev see passengers as a major inconvenience to the smooth running of their services.
i sometimes wonder if transdev see passengers as a major inconvenience to the smooth running of their services. frank
  • Score: 12

4:04pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Noiticer says...

The Government's cuts are really going to bite hard this coming year - you aint seen nothing yet!!!
The Government's cuts are really going to bite hard this coming year - you aint seen nothing yet!!! Noiticer
  • Score: 8

5:06pm Thu 16 Jan 14

tandg13112010 says...

ive never seen Cllr bateson on a bus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!whats the point in building a new bus station if theres going to be no buses running????
ive never seen Cllr bateson on a bus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!whats the point in building a new bus station if theres going to be no buses running???? tandg13112010
  • Score: 10

5:29pm Thu 16 Jan 14

burner says...

Forget the unreliable - get your family in the car !
Forget the unreliable - get your family in the car ! burner
  • Score: 1

5:46pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Copperhead says...

It's real shame what has happened to public transport in the UK.
I'm a retired bus driver. I started "on the buses" in 1974 and I watched helplessly as the quality and quantity of services deteriorated over the years.
I think it is utterly, utterly ridiculous that, on a small, over-crowded island such as ours we have such rotten bus and train services. We used to have public transport that was the envy of the world ( back in the 80s, before Thatcherscum started privatisation, the BR Intercity services were the only such services in all of Europe that actually ran an operating profit ) but now even third-world countries better our pathetic standards.
Personally, I think it is all planned - if the Government gets rid of all publicly owned transport AND stops subsidies to non-pofitable services, then the number of buses and trains will decrease and people will have to use cars, whether they like to or not.
And then the vultures can fleece us for every penny they can - fuel tax, road tax, toll roads, car-parking charges, the cost of driving tests and licences - all will rise and rise and rise to feed the insatiable appetite that governments have for OUR money. We'll have no option but to pay and pay and pay because there will no alternative to using a car as the buses and trains will have disappeared from all but the profitable, main line services.
It's real shame what has happened to public transport in the UK. I'm a retired bus driver. I started "on the buses" in 1974 and I watched helplessly as the quality and quantity of services deteriorated over the years. I think it is utterly, utterly ridiculous that, on a small, over-crowded island such as ours we have such rotten bus and train services. We used to have public transport that was the envy of the world ( back in the 80s, before Thatcherscum started privatisation, the BR Intercity services were the only such services in all of Europe that actually ran an operating profit ) but now even third-world countries better our pathetic standards. Personally, I think it is all planned - if the Government gets rid of all publicly owned transport AND stops subsidies to non-pofitable services, then the number of buses and trains will decrease and people will have to use cars, whether they like to or not. And then the vultures can fleece us for every penny they can - fuel tax, road tax, toll roads, car-parking charges, the cost of driving tests and licences - all will rise and rise and rise to feed the insatiable appetite that governments have for OUR money. We'll have no option but to pay and pay and pay because there will no alternative to using a car as the buses and trains will have disappeared from all but the profitable, main line services. Copperhead
  • Score: 5

6:49pm Thu 16 Jan 14

bernss says...

they want everyone to travel by taxie save them money.
they want everyone to travel by taxie save them money. bernss
  • Score: 0

8:34pm Thu 16 Jan 14

s_smith says...

I cant help but wonder if it is about time that there was a major overhaul of the bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen.

There doesnt seem to be any logic to where the services really run and the amount spent on subsidy is ridiculous! If you use google for bus subsidies there are a whole host of FoI requests on "whatdotheyknow(dot)
com" and replies.

As an example - Warrington, subsidised 54 bus services / 64% of its services wholly or partially for £1,518,194 in 2010/11.

Another - North East Lincolnshire subsidised 12 bus services, 71% of its services wholly or partially for £157,000

Blackburn, in the same year subsidised 18 bus services / 5% of its services wholly or partially for £715,000.

Now, theres something very wrong here. Blackburn seem to be either paying over the odds for their subsidised services, or the services are very inefficient.

Now that I have my free bus pass - and yes I firmly think I should have to pay £1 flat rate per journey - Ive used buses quite regularly and they are **** busy considering how expensive they are around here compared to many other places.

Perhaps it is time to make sure that the bus routes are actually serving the communities they need to, rahter than running services the way they do becuase "theyve always run this way".
I cant help but wonder if it is about time that there was a major overhaul of the bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen. There doesnt seem to be any logic to where the services really run and the amount spent on subsidy is ridiculous! If you use google for bus subsidies there are a whole host of FoI requests on "whatdotheyknow(dot) com" and replies. As an example - Warrington, subsidised 54 bus services / 64% of its services wholly or partially for £1,518,194 in 2010/11. Another - North East Lincolnshire subsidised 12 bus services, 71% of its services wholly or partially for £157,000 Blackburn, in the same year subsidised 18 bus services / 5% of its services wholly or partially for £715,000. Now, theres something very wrong here. Blackburn seem to be either paying over the odds for their subsidised services, or the services are very inefficient. Now that I have my free bus pass - and yes I firmly think I should have to pay £1 flat rate per journey - Ive used buses quite regularly and they are **** busy considering how expensive they are around here compared to many other places. Perhaps it is time to make sure that the bus routes are actually serving the communities they need to, rahter than running services the way they do becuase "theyve always run this way". s_smith
  • Score: 3

9:26pm Thu 16 Jan 14

fireonthemountain says...

Amazing isn't it !?

Questions

- why do some people think that a bus route to run at a loss
is perfectly acceptable ?

- why do some people think that the ratepayes to subsidise
that loss is perfectly acceptable ?

I have to agree with s_smith . I too have a bus pass , which I have never used . Why on earth should I travel for free ?

Now - I do know what I talking about , having spent five years as a bus driver .

Who do we hate the most ? - school kids ? No - pensioners .

Yes the "gimme-gimme -I'm-old" generation . Who winge if we are a minute late . Who sit on the bus (especially the "outer circle") all day , as they have nothing else to do .

The same people who love to be in Hospital , where the food is free , likewise the electricity , and a bit of company . Beats having to go home and fend and pay for themselves .

Why do they expect half price haircuts by the way ?

Maybe if they stopped being so selfish , we could have a
decent bus and health service .

I await being voted down , probably this post will be removed .

Truth hurts doesn't it !?
Amazing isn't it !? Questions - why do some people think that a bus route to run at a loss is perfectly acceptable ? - why do some people think that the ratepayes to subsidise that loss is perfectly acceptable ? I have to agree with s_smith . I too have a bus pass , which I have never used . Why on earth should I travel for free ? Now - I do know what I talking about , having spent five years as a bus driver . Who do we hate the most ? - school kids ? No - pensioners . Yes the "gimme-gimme -I'm-old" generation . Who winge if we are a minute late . Who sit on the bus (especially the "outer circle") all day , as they have nothing else to do . The same people who love to be in Hospital , where the food is free , likewise the electricity , and a bit of company . Beats having to go home and fend and pay for themselves . Why do they expect half price haircuts by the way ? Maybe if they stopped being so selfish , we could have a decent bus and health service . I await being voted down , probably this post will be removed . Truth hurts doesn't it !? fireonthemountain
  • Score: -5

1:00am Fri 17 Jan 14

english rose 1 says...

tandg13112010 wrote:
ive never seen Cllr bateson on a bus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!whats the point in building a new bus station if theres going to be no buses running????
you must be getting on a different bus then .... she lives in Mill Hill so gets the bus most days into the Town Hall.
[quote][p][bold]tandg13112010[/bold] wrote: ive never seen Cllr bateson on a bus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!whats the point in building a new bus station if theres going to be no buses running????[/p][/quote]you must be getting on a different bus then .... she lives in Mill Hill so gets the bus most days into the Town Hall. english rose 1
  • Score: 4

1:05am Fri 17 Jan 14

english rose 1 says...

s_smith wrote:
I cant help but wonder if it is about time that there was a major overhaul of the bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen.

There doesnt seem to be any logic to where the services really run and the amount spent on subsidy is ridiculous! If you use google for bus subsidies there are a whole host of FoI requests on "whatdotheyknow
(dot)
com" and replies.

As an example - Warrington, subsidised 54 bus services / 64% of its services wholly or partially for £1,518,194 in 2010/11.

Another - North East Lincolnshire subsidised 12 bus services, 71% of its services wholly or partially for £157,000

Blackburn, in the same year subsidised 18 bus services / 5% of its services wholly or partially for £715,000.

Now, theres something very wrong here. Blackburn seem to be either paying over the odds for their subsidised services, or the services are very inefficient.

Now that I have my free bus pass - and yes I firmly think I should have to pay £1 flat rate per journey - Ive used buses quite regularly and they are **** busy considering how expensive they are around here compared to many other places.

Perhaps it is time to make sure that the bus routes are actually serving the communities they need to, rahter than running services the way they do becuase "theyve always run this way".
well set a bus service up then .... you could obviously do a lot better !!
*
Seriously, you cite the example of Warrington .... the problem is that services in Metropolitan Areas receive a lot more subsidy than those in shire areas. BUT, they pay quite a lot more in Council Tax.
[quote][p][bold]s_smith[/bold] wrote: I cant help but wonder if it is about time that there was a major overhaul of the bus routes in Blackburn and Darwen. There doesnt seem to be any logic to where the services really run and the amount spent on subsidy is ridiculous! If you use google for bus subsidies there are a whole host of FoI requests on "whatdotheyknow (dot) com" and replies. As an example - Warrington, subsidised 54 bus services / 64% of its services wholly or partially for £1,518,194 in 2010/11. Another - North East Lincolnshire subsidised 12 bus services, 71% of its services wholly or partially for £157,000 Blackburn, in the same year subsidised 18 bus services / 5% of its services wholly or partially for £715,000. Now, theres something very wrong here. Blackburn seem to be either paying over the odds for their subsidised services, or the services are very inefficient. Now that I have my free bus pass - and yes I firmly think I should have to pay £1 flat rate per journey - Ive used buses quite regularly and they are **** busy considering how expensive they are around here compared to many other places. Perhaps it is time to make sure that the bus routes are actually serving the communities they need to, rahter than running services the way they do becuase "theyve always run this way".[/p][/quote]well set a bus service up then .... you could obviously do a lot better !! * Seriously, you cite the example of Warrington .... the problem is that services in Metropolitan Areas receive a lot more subsidy than those in shire areas. BUT, they pay quite a lot more in Council Tax. english rose 1
  • Score: 0

1:10am Fri 17 Jan 14

english rose 1 says...

Copperhead wrote:
It's real shame what has happened to public transport in the UK.
I'm a retired bus driver. I started "on the buses" in 1974 and I watched helplessly as the quality and quantity of services deteriorated over the years.
I think it is utterly, utterly ridiculous that, on a small, over-crowded island such as ours we have such rotten bus and train services. We used to have public transport that was the envy of the world ( back in the 80s, before Thatcherscum started privatisation, the BR Intercity services were the only such services in all of Europe that actually ran an operating profit ) but now even third-world countries better our pathetic standards.
Personally, I think it is all planned - if the Government gets rid of all publicly owned transport AND stops subsidies to non-pofitable services, then the number of buses and trains will decrease and people will have to use cars, whether they like to or not.
And then the vultures can fleece us for every penny they can - fuel tax, road tax, toll roads, car-parking charges, the cost of driving tests and licences - all will rise and rise and rise to feed the insatiable appetite that governments have for OUR money. We'll have no option but to pay and pay and pay because there will no alternative to using a car as the buses and trains will have disappeared from all but the profitable, main line services.
I agree Copperhead ... but as you urge folk to vote UKIP or BNP their policies would cut far more to local councils than the Tories..
*
UKIP only have 3 policies:
1) get out of the EU (that won't help public transport)
2) increase defence spending a lot (that won't help public transport)
3) cut public spending by much more (that will adversely affect bus and train services)
[quote][p][bold]Copperhead[/bold] wrote: It's real shame what has happened to public transport in the UK. I'm a retired bus driver. I started "on the buses" in 1974 and I watched helplessly as the quality and quantity of services deteriorated over the years. I think it is utterly, utterly ridiculous that, on a small, over-crowded island such as ours we have such rotten bus and train services. We used to have public transport that was the envy of the world ( back in the 80s, before Thatcherscum started privatisation, the BR Intercity services were the only such services in all of Europe that actually ran an operating profit ) but now even third-world countries better our pathetic standards. Personally, I think it is all planned - if the Government gets rid of all publicly owned transport AND stops subsidies to non-pofitable services, then the number of buses and trains will decrease and people will have to use cars, whether they like to or not. And then the vultures can fleece us for every penny they can - fuel tax, road tax, toll roads, car-parking charges, the cost of driving tests and licences - all will rise and rise and rise to feed the insatiable appetite that governments have for OUR money. We'll have no option but to pay and pay and pay because there will no alternative to using a car as the buses and trains will have disappeared from all but the profitable, main line services.[/p][/quote]I agree Copperhead ... but as you urge folk to vote UKIP or BNP their policies would cut far more to local councils than the Tories.. * UKIP only have 3 policies: 1) get out of the EU (that won't help public transport) 2) increase defence spending a lot (that won't help public transport) 3) cut public spending by much more (that will adversely affect bus and train services) english rose 1
  • Score: 3

10:27am Fri 17 Jan 14

Noiticer says...

Can 'fireonthe mountain' follow his logic through and explain why we should keep our defence forces, NHS, schools, environmental health units, police etc none of which make a profit BUT are essential services just like public transport. It's just the way you look at services and how you use them which limits your thinking. If public transport was subsidised and cheap it would reduce congestion, reduce pressure on the NHS from dealing with expensive road casualties and make people fitter, reduce pollution and make people more sociable to list but some advantages.
Can 'fireonthe mountain' follow his logic through and explain why we should keep our defence forces, NHS, schools, environmental health units, police etc none of which make a profit BUT are essential services just like public transport. It's just the way you look at services and how you use them which limits your thinking. If public transport was subsidised and cheap it would reduce congestion, reduce pressure on the NHS from dealing with expensive road casualties and make people fitter, reduce pollution and make people more sociable to list but some advantages. Noiticer
  • Score: 3

11:52am Fri 17 Jan 14

Benjamin James says...

Noiticer wrote:
Can 'fireonthe mountain' follow his logic through and explain why we should keep our defence forces, NHS, schools, environmental health units, police etc none of which make a profit BUT are essential services just like public transport. It's just the way you look at services and how you use them which limits your thinking. If public transport was subsidised and cheap it would reduce congestion, reduce pressure on the NHS from dealing with expensive road casualties and make people fitter, reduce pollution and make people more sociable to list but some advantages.
I am not a doctor nor do I hold any stats for road accidents and strains on the NHS, but i'm pretty sure perfect public transport won't make the slightest bit of difference to the way the NHS runs.

And you say about services and how we use them... I'd like to use your first example, the defence forces (not including the police and emergency services) What is the point of them? They're there to defend and protect the country and people within it. Yet we're currently wasting billions a year fighting pointless wars and occupations with the tally ho hoo rah attitude that it's for queen and country. If we halved our defence budget we could have a utopian public transport system. More police on the streets, better funded NHS services and the likes.

You say it's how we use them... Well at the moment prime example there of a service and a financial "need" being gravely misused. Public transport shouldn't be subsidised or made to be cheaper or anything of the sorts. It's a vital service to the majority of people which can be private by all means, but any company willing to take on the responsibility of making sure peoples lives are run on time (not mothering them, simply getting them from A to B) then they have accountability for poor services, just as I and many others wish that many bankers were hung from the rafters or at least given jail time for the financial crash. Private sector failures SHOULD be punishable in the same way a public sector failure is, because at the end of the day the BIG failures always affect the rest of us.
[quote][p][bold]Noiticer[/bold] wrote: Can 'fireonthe mountain' follow his logic through and explain why we should keep our defence forces, NHS, schools, environmental health units, police etc none of which make a profit BUT are essential services just like public transport. It's just the way you look at services and how you use them which limits your thinking. If public transport was subsidised and cheap it would reduce congestion, reduce pressure on the NHS from dealing with expensive road casualties and make people fitter, reduce pollution and make people more sociable to list but some advantages.[/p][/quote]I am not a doctor nor do I hold any stats for road accidents and strains on the NHS, but i'm pretty sure perfect public transport won't make the slightest bit of difference to the way the NHS runs. And you say about services and how we use them... I'd like to use your first example, the defence forces (not including the police and emergency services) What is the point of them? They're there to defend and protect the country and people within it. Yet we're currently wasting billions a year fighting pointless wars and occupations with the tally ho hoo rah attitude that it's for queen and country. If we halved our defence budget we could have a utopian public transport system. More police on the streets, better funded NHS services and the likes. You say it's how we use them... Well at the moment prime example there of a service and a financial "need" being gravely misused. Public transport shouldn't be subsidised or made to be cheaper or anything of the sorts. It's a vital service to the majority of people which can be private by all means, but any company willing to take on the responsibility of making sure peoples lives are run on time (not mothering them, simply getting them from A to B) then they have accountability for poor services, just as I and many others wish that many bankers were hung from the rafters or at least given jail time for the financial crash. Private sector failures SHOULD be punishable in the same way a public sector failure is, because at the end of the day the BIG failures always affect the rest of us. Benjamin James
  • Score: 2

8:15pm Fri 17 Jan 14

s_smith says...

Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it.

What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators.

Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation.

It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required.

Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements.

While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council.
Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it. What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators. Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation. It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required. Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements. While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council. s_smith
  • Score: 0

2:48am Mon 20 Jan 14

english rose 1 says...

s_smith wrote:
Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it.

What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators.

Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation.

It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required.

Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements.

While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council.
Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't. I was joking about setting up a service (hence the exclamation marks at the end of the sentence).
[quote][p][bold]s_smith[/bold] wrote: Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it. What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators. Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation. It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required. Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements. While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council.[/p][/quote]Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't. I was joking about setting up a service (hence the exclamation marks at the end of the sentence). english rose 1
  • Score: 0

8:09pm Mon 20 Jan 14

s_smith says...

english rose 1 wrote:
s_smith wrote:
Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it.

What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators.

Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation.

It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required.

Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements.

While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council.
Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't. I was joking about setting up a service (hence the exclamation marks at the end of the sentence).
english rose 1 wrote: Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't.


But even that argument doesn't stand up!

Band D Council Tax in Blackburn is £1,483.42

Bolton: £1,459.24 -£24.18
Bury: £1,510.81 +£27.39
Manchester: £1,379.24 -£104.18
Oldham: £1,599.92 +£166.50
Rochdale: £1,537.33 +£53.91
Salford: £1,533.28 +£49.86
Stockport: £1,604.02 +£120.60
Trafford: £1,312.20 -£171.22
Tameside: £1,416.64 -£66.78
Wigan: £1,402.08 -£81.34

So half of all the Councils in the TfGM area have lower Council Tax than Blackburn does. Even the average Council tax across the TfGM area is £1,475.48.
[quote][p][bold]english rose 1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]s_smith[/bold] wrote: Why would I set up a bus service when the monopoly player in town would simply muscle in. Besides which it is hardly a helpful response from you is it. What would be helpful is perhaps if you were to consider the councils role in providing effective public transport, in conjunction with the private operators. Having lived here 30-odd years now, I have seen a lot of things change around here, but the bus services have changed little, apart from cut-backs and rationalisation. It is time that the whole system was properly overhauled - there is no reason why some services cannot be combined and routes streamlined at night for instance. That happens in a lot of places, where separate but nearby routes are combined to serve bits of both as required. Oh and as an aside regarding Council Tax, a Band D property in Central Warrington is charged £103.32 less than in central Blackburn - it might help if you researched this before making such bold statements. While I am at it, it is also perhaps worth mentioning that Warrington bus services are provided by Network Warrington - owned by the Borough Council.[/p][/quote]Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't. I was joking about setting up a service (hence the exclamation marks at the end of the sentence).[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]english rose 1[/bold] wrote: Apologies - you are correct about Warrington. I assumed it was part of the Metropolitan PTE areas, and. of course, it isn't. [/p][/quote] But even that argument doesn't stand up! Band D Council Tax in Blackburn is £1,483.42 Bolton: £1,459.24 [b] -£24.18 [/b] Bury: £1,510.81 [i] +£27.39 [/i] Manchester: £1,379.24 [b] -£104.18 [/b] Oldham: £1,599.92 [i] +£166.50 [/i] Rochdale: £1,537.33 [i] +£53.91 [/i] Salford: £1,533.28 [i] +£49.86 [/i] Stockport: £1,604.02 [i] +£120.60 [/i] Trafford: £1,312.20 [b] -£171.22 [/b] Tameside: £1,416.64 [b] -£66.78 [/b] Wigan: £1,402.08 [b] -£81.34 [/b] So half of all the Councils in the TfGM area have lower Council Tax than Blackburn does. Even the average Council tax across the TfGM area is £1,475.48. s_smith
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