Senior East Lancashire police officers return back to their roots (From Lancashire Telegraph)

"return back"... how does one do that?

"return to" is the correct construction, surely

So lets get this right neither of these officers are going to be getting their hands dirty on the frontline? Their not getting into patrol cars & dealing with the everyday/night problems in the community & keeping them in touch with the everyday problems their staff & the public face. Their going to be sat in back offices getting "briefed" by other officers during their working week mon-fri!
Lancashire Constabulary I'm disgusted that your "proud" to be having 2 police officers in the division pen pushing & your shouting from the rooftops to the local rag about it. Personally I feel you need to get your house in order by the means of looking at your everyday work load & the officers who have to deal with that along with the inadequate sgt, inspectors & ch insp's. maybe if the pen pushers returned to the frontline to get some up to date experience then maybe the policies & procedures could be overhauled to make the paperwork chain & general life of frontline officers easier which in turn would free them up so the can attend jobs. I know officers who can spend 3hrs on the computer doing paperwork for jobs 3 wks earlier that they've been trying to complete & get sorted before actually hitting the streets & doing patrol work! They can have up to 10 open cases at a time & they are suppose to be working on them (statements, inputting on to minimum 3 databases sometimes upto 5, sorting out handover packages, finding parties involved, arresting, interviewing, evidence gathering, evidence clarking, charging, go to court, sometimes they go through all this knowing that theyll be either charged with a lesser offence so it doesnt effect the targets, or no charged full stop after all this) as well as responding to 999, then the public wonder why there's no police officers on the street. Lancashire Constabulary you need to have a word with yourself, what kind of organisation are you running? It desperately needs someone to come & overhaul it & also make people do their jobs eg. CPS, case builders etc often running to officers days before court saying they need something but yet they had the file 6 months! The police system is a joke & I often see the officers frustration of what's happening & they just want to be doing their job eg, protecting people & catching criminals!

Why are these routine matters of employment thought worth reporting? A tale of two shop workers would be just as worthy.

cutthebull wrote:
So lets get this right neither of these officers are going to be getting their hands dirty on the frontline? Their not getting into patrol cars & dealing with the everyday/night problems in the community & keeping them in touch with the everyday problems their staff & the public face. Their going to be sat in back offices getting "briefed" by other officers during their working week mon-fri!
Lancashire Constabulary I'm disgusted that your "proud" to be having 2 police officers in the division pen pushing & your shouting from the rooftops to the local rag about it. Personally I feel you need to get your house in order by the means of looking at your everyday work load & the officers who have to deal with that along with the inadequate sgt, inspectors & ch insp's. maybe if the pen pushers returned to the frontline to get some up to date experience then maybe the policies & procedures could be overhauled to make the paperwork chain & general life of frontline officers easier which in turn would free them up so the can attend jobs. I know officers who can spend 3hrs on the computer doing paperwork for jobs 3 wks earlier that they've been trying to complete & get sorted before actually hitting the streets & doing patrol work! They can have up to 10 open cases at a time & they are suppose to be working on them (statements, inputting on to minimum 3 databases sometimes upto 5, sorting out handover packages, finding parties involved, arresting, interviewing, evidence gathering, evidence clarking, charging, go to court, sometimes they go through all this knowing that theyll be either charged with a lesser offence so it doesnt effect the targets, or no charged full stop after all this) as well as responding to 999, then the public wonder why there's no police officers on the street. Lancashire Constabulary you need to have a word with yourself, what kind of organisation are you running? It desperately needs someone to come & overhaul it & also make people do their jobs eg. CPS, case builders etc often running to officers days before court saying they need something but yet they had the file 6 months! The police system is a joke & I often see the officers frustration of what's happening & they just want to be doing their job eg, protecting people & catching criminals!

Now them PC Cutthebull, don't be coming on here criticising your bosses!...........oh yes, from what you say you are clearly a disgruntled employee of the Constabulary.

George.White.Bread wrote:

cutthebull wrote:
So lets get this right neither of these officers are going to be getting their hands dirty on the frontline? Their not getting into patrol cars & dealing with the everyday/night problems in the community & keeping them in touch with the everyday problems their staff & the public face. Their going to be sat in back offices getting "briefed" by other officers during their working week mon-fri!
Lancashire Constabulary I'm disgusted that your "proud" to be having 2 police officers in the division pen pushing & your shouting from the rooftops to the local rag about it. Personally I feel you need to get your house in order by the means of looking at your everyday work load & the officers who have to deal with that along with the inadequate sgt, inspectors & ch insp's. maybe if the pen pushers returned to the frontline to get some up to date experience then maybe the policies & procedures could be overhauled to make the paperwork chain & general life of frontline officers easier which in turn would free them up so the can attend jobs. I know officers who can spend 3hrs on the computer doing paperwork for jobs 3 wks earlier that they've been trying to complete & get sorted before actually hitting the streets & doing patrol work! They can have up to 10 open cases at a time & they are suppose to be working on them (statements, inputting on to minimum 3 databases sometimes upto 5, sorting out handover packages, finding parties involved, arresting, interviewing, evidence gathering, evidence clarking, charging, go to court, sometimes they go through all this knowing that theyll be either charged with a lesser offence so it doesnt effect the targets, or no charged full stop after all this) as well as responding to 999, then the public wonder why there's no police officers on the street. Lancashire Constabulary you need to have a word with yourself, what kind of organisation are you running? It desperately needs someone to come & overhaul it & also make people do their jobs eg. CPS, case builders etc often running to officers days before court saying they need something but yet they had the file 6 months! The police system is a joke & I often see the officers frustration of what's happening & they just want to be doing their job eg, protecting people & catching criminals!

Now them PC Cutthebull, don't be coming on here criticising your bosses!...........oh yes, from what you say you are clearly a disgruntled employee of the Constabulary.

Disgruntled or not, he is right. The police system is a joke except it is not funny. I, like very many others, don't have much respect for the police force (it used to be a `service') anymore although I don't just blame the bobby in the beat, it is more the Chief Constables who are too politically correct and Common Purpose trained. Police numbers have been cut and they are far too reactive to crime rather than proactive. The way they have failed in tackling the Asian sex grooming epidemic and Jimmy Saville abuse scandal to name but two has been an absolute disgrace.

We seem to have record numbers of police (even at the top, like Chief Inspector Ali Dalziel and Sergeant Salim Razaq) who are out and out criminals. It makes me wonder if a quip I heard recently "Q- What is the difference between a criminal and a policeman? A- their warrant card" is not far off the truth. Still, I understand there is nothing like the thorough vetting procedure for police applicants there used to be, particularly on immediate family members.

A blind eye is turned to so many so-called `misdemeanors' these days, maybe because the police are so under manned, but the acceptable level of crime then goes up (well, with no prison places available and a need to claim that crime figures are down.... Ha!) when zero tolerance would have a very positive effect. One small example is the obvious massive increase in cars with faulty lights, many with no lights at one side and the other single headlight blinding your eyes. When I started driving in the 60's, you dare not set off with a bulb out as you knew you would be stopped in double quick time. A small example, perhaps (along with illegal mobile phone use and not wearing seat belts - how may kids do you see unbelted in cars?) but indicative of how law-keeping standards have dropped.

The police need a root and branch reorganisation but I can't see our current political leaders, of all 3 main parties, doing that. They all know that more social strife and extremist activity is inevitable in the near future yet cut police numbers and close prisons.

M Foster wrote:

George.White.Bread wrote:

cutthebull wrote: So lets get this right neither of these officers are going to be getting their hands dirty on the frontline? Their not getting into patrol cars & dealing with the everyday/night problems in the community & keeping them in touch with the everyday problems their staff & the public face. Their going to be sat in back offices getting "briefed" by other officers during their working week mon-fri! Lancashire Constabulary I'm disgusted that your "proud" to be having 2 police officers in the division pen pushing & your shouting from the rooftops to the local rag about it. Personally I feel you need to get your house in order by the means of looking at your everyday work load & the officers who have to deal with that along with the inadequate sgt, inspectors & ch insp's. maybe if the pen pushers returned to the frontline to get some up to date experience then maybe the policies & procedures could be overhauled to make the paperwork chain & general life of frontline officers easier which in turn would free them up so the can attend jobs. I know officers who can spend 3hrs on the computer doing paperwork for jobs 3 wks earlier that they've been trying to complete & get sorted before actually hitting the streets & doing patrol work! They can have up to 10 open cases at a time & they are suppose to be working on them (statements, inputting on to minimum 3 databases sometimes upto 5, sorting out handover packages, finding parties involved, arresting, interviewing, evidence gathering, evidence clarking, charging, go to court, sometimes they go through all this knowing that theyll be either charged with a lesser offence so it doesnt effect the targets, or no charged full stop after all this) as well as responding to 999, then the public wonder why there's no police officers on the street. Lancashire Constabulary you need to have a word with yourself, what kind of organisation are you running? It desperately needs someone to come & overhaul it & also make people do their jobs eg. CPS, case builders etc often running to officers days before court saying they need something but yet they had the file 6 months! The police system is a joke & I often see the officers frustration of what's happening & they just want to be doing their job eg, protecting people & catching criminals!

Now them PC Cutthebull, don't be coming on here criticising your bosses!...........oh yes, from what you say you are clearly a disgruntled employee of the Constabulary.

Disgruntled or not, he is right. The police system is a joke except it is not funny. I, like very many others, don't have much respect for the police force (it used to be a `service') anymore although I don't just blame the bobby in the beat, it is more the Chief Constables who are too politically correct and Common Purpose trained. Police numbers have been cut and they are far too reactive to crime rather than proactive. The way they have failed in tackling the Asian sex grooming epidemic and Jimmy Saville abuse scandal to name but two has been an absolute disgrace. We seem to have record numbers of police (even at the top, like Chief Inspector Ali Dalziel and Sergeant Salim Razaq) who are out and out criminals. It makes me wonder if a quip I heard recently "Q- What is the difference between a criminal and a policeman? A- their warrant card" is not far off the truth. Still, I understand there is nothing like the thorough vetting procedure for police applicants there used to be, particularly on immediate family members. A blind eye is turned to so many so-called `misdemeanors' these days, maybe because the police are so under manned, but the acceptable level of crime then goes up (well, with no prison places available and a need to claim that crime figures are down.... Ha!) when zero tolerance would have a very positive effect. One small example is the obvious massive increase in cars with faulty lights, many with no lights at one side and the other single headlight blinding your eyes. When I started driving in the 60's, you dare not set off with a bulb out as you knew you would be stopped in double quick time. A small example, perhaps (along with illegal mobile phone use and not wearing seat belts - how may kids do you see unbelted in cars?) but indicative of how law-keeping standards have dropped. The police need a root and branch reorganisation but I can't see our current political leaders, of all 3 main parties, doing that. They all know that more social strife and extremist activity is inevitable in the near future yet cut police numbers and close prisons.

M. Foster.

Actually it used to be a force and now it is a service.

The root and branch reorganisation you mention is currently underway as we speak and has been ongoing for at least the last two years. With dramatic changes to the way this country is policed, whether it works - only time will tell. But I suspect not !!!!!

Sick of rip off - `Actually it used to be a force and now it is a service.'

When I see them kitted out in riot gear like some android, helmeted and masked with pepper spray and Tazer guns (which have been proven to be have been used unjustifyably and have killed - 3 in 1 week in 2011), to me they represent a force. I realise the police have a very difficult job to do and have to be equiped to match a given situation but the attitude of the average copper has changed greatly (you only have to watch TV fly-on-the-wall cop shows) and now you are more likely to be referred to as mate rather than sir, as in my younger days.

Yet I know what you probably mean in that they are no longer a visible deterrent on the streets (hence the p.c. cardboard cut-outs near some stores and pcso's) but a back room complaint service in some locked-up police station complete with phone outside to ring Preston HQ in an emergency. That is when they are not outside acting as a council revenue service hidden somewhere with a speed camera.

'Mate' indeed! This is the form of address used so frequently by officers on TV cop shows, just before they arrest these 'mates'. This of course no way to treat a 'mate'.

M Foster wrote:
Sick of rip off - `Actually it used to be a force and now it is a service.'

When I see them kitted out in riot gear like some android, helmeted and masked with pepper spray and Tazer guns (which have been proven to be have been used unjustifyably and have killed - 3 in 1 week in 2011), to me they represent a force. I realise the police have a very difficult job to do and have to be equiped to match a given situation but the attitude of the average copper has changed greatly (you only have to watch TV fly-on-the-wall cop shows) and now you are more likely to be referred to as mate rather than sir, as in my younger days.

Yet I know what you probably mean in that they are no longer a visible deterrent on the streets (hence the p.c. cardboard cut-outs near some stores and pcso's) but a back room complaint service in some locked-up police station complete with phone outside to ring Preston HQ in an emergency. That is when they are not outside acting as a council revenue service hidden somewhere with a speed camera.

Can you clarify exactly what you are claiming has killed 3 people in 1 week? Pepper spray or Taser (please note that they are not guns).

George.White.Bread wrote:

cutthebull wrote:
So lets get this right neither of these officers are going to be getting their hands dirty on the frontline? Their not getting into patrol cars & dealing with the everyday/night problems in the community & keeping them in touch with the everyday problems their staff & the public face. Their going to be sat in back offices getting "briefed" by other officers during their working week mon-fri!
Lancashire Constabulary I'm disgusted that your "proud" to be having 2 police officers in the division pen pushing & your shouting from the rooftops to the local rag about it. Personally I feel you need to get your house in order by the means of looking at your everyday work load & the officers who have to deal with that along with the inadequate sgt, inspectors & ch insp's. maybe if the pen pushers returned to the frontline to get some up to date experience then maybe the policies & procedures could be overhauled to make the paperwork chain & general life of frontline officers easier which in turn would free them up so the can attend jobs. I know officers who can spend 3hrs on the computer doing paperwork for jobs 3 wks earlier that they've been trying to complete & get sorted before actually hitting the streets & doing patrol work! They can have up to 10 open cases at a time & they are suppose to be working on them (statements, inputting on to minimum 3 databases sometimes upto 5, sorting out handover packages, finding parties involved, arresting, interviewing, evidence gathering, evidence clarking, charging, go to court, sometimes they go through all this knowing that theyll be either charged with a lesser offence so it doesnt effect the targets, or no charged full stop after all this) as well as responding to 999, then the public wonder why there's no police officers on the street. Lancashire Constabulary you need to have a word with yourself, what kind of organisation are you running? It desperately needs someone to come & overhaul it & also make people do their jobs eg. CPS, case builders etc often running to officers days before court saying they need something but yet they had the file 6 months! The police system is a joke & I often see the officers frustration of what's happening & they just want to be doing their job eg, protecting people & catching criminals!

Now them PC Cutthebull, don't be coming on here criticising your bosses!...........oh yes, from what you say you are clearly a disgruntled employee of the Constabulary.

Disgruntled eh? That means you have to be employed by them, to which I am not, I'm a ward sister in the NHS as I've stated on here before, my path crosses with enough police officers my husband of 31 yrs to know how bad the system is. He for one could have risen through the ranks but prefers to be frontline & stay hands on & use his wealth of experience to try & support the younger ones coming through as he states no-one else is helping them.

George.White.Bread wrote:

M Foster wrote:
Sick of rip off - `Actually it used to be a force and now it is a service.'

When I see them kitted out in riot gear like some android, helmeted and masked with pepper spray and Tazer guns (which have been proven to be have been used unjustifyably and have killed - 3 in 1 week in 2011), to me they represent a force. I realise the police have a very difficult job to do and have to be equiped to match a given situation but the attitude of the average copper has changed greatly (you only have to watch TV fly-on-the-wall cop shows) and now you are more likely to be referred to as mate rather than sir, as in my younger days.

Yet I know what you probably mean in that they are no longer a visible deterrent on the streets (hence the p.c. cardboard cut-outs near some stores and pcso's) but a back room complaint service in some locked-up police station complete with phone outside to ring Preston HQ in an emergency. That is when they are not outside acting as a council revenue service hidden somewhere with a speed camera.

Can you clarify exactly what you are claiming has killed 3 people in 1 week? Pepper spray or Taser (please note that they are not guns).

Sure, sorry for the lack of clarity. The details are here -

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/uk/2011/aug/24
/taser-deaths-invest
igated-police-watchd
og

Ok, the one week I referred to happens to be 8 days - a bit of journalistic licence for which I hope I can be excused for the sake of one day but as for the term `gun', I was about to acknowledge your correction but then see that it is referred to as a `Taser stun gun' in the above article. It would therefore seem it is a common mis-naming which might be annoying for anyone who is a stickler for detail and/or closely involved with their use - perhaps like yourself?

I notice that the main heading states -
"......becomes third person in eight days to die after being shot with the stun gun" - but further down it states -
"....Police restraint tactics are under fresh scrutiny after a third member of the public died following the use of either a Taser stun gun or pepper spray by officers." - so not very clear.
Anyway, we seem to be splitting hairs. Does it matter by which method they died? We are discussing policing in general. I remember the innocent newspaper seller who was punched to the ground by another criminal in the Queens uniform and later died.

A 2008 report from Amnesty International found 351 Taser-related deaths in the US between June, 2001 and August, 2008, a rate of just slightly above four deaths per month but I am wandering too much off topic now.

George.White.Bread wrote:

M Foster wrote:
Sick of rip off - `Actually it used to be a force and now it is a service.'

When I see them kitted out in riot gear like some android, helmeted and masked with pepper spray and Tazer guns (which have been proven to be have been used unjustifyably and have killed - 3 in 1 week in 2011), to me they represent a force. I realise the police have a very difficult job to do and have to be equiped to match a given situation but the attitude of the average copper has changed greatly (you only have to watch TV fly-on-the-wall cop shows) and now you are more likely to be referred to as mate rather than sir, as in my younger days.

Yet I know what you probably mean in that they are no longer a visible deterrent on the streets (hence the p.c. cardboard cut-outs near some stores and pcso's) but a back room complaint service in some locked-up police station complete with phone outside to ring Preston HQ in an emergency. That is when they are not outside acting as a council revenue service hidden somewhere with a speed camera.

Can you clarify exactly what you are claiming has killed 3 people in 1 week? Pepper spray or Taser (please note that they are not guns).

Sure, sorry for the lack of clarity. The details are here -

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/uk/2011/aug/24
/taser-deaths-invest
igated-police-watchd
og

Ok, the one week I referred to happens to be 8 days - a bit of journalistic licence for which I hope I can be excused for the sake of one day but as for the term `gun', I was about to acknowledge your correction but then see that it is referred to as a `Taser stun gun' in the above article. It would therefore seem it is a common mis-naming which might be annoying for anyone who is a stickler for detail and/or closely involved with their use - perhaps like yourself?

I notice that the main heading states -
"......becomes third person in eight days to die after being shot with the stun gun" - but further down it states -
"....Police restraint tactics are under fresh scrutiny after a third member of the public died following the use of either a Taser stun gun or pepper spray by officers." - so not very clear.
Anyway, we seem to be splitting hairs. Does it matter by which method they died? We are discussing policing in general. I remember the innocent newspaper seller who was punched to the ground by another criminal in the Queens uniform and later died.

A 2008 report from Amnesty International found 351 Taser-related deaths in the US between June, 2001 and August, 2008, a rate of just slightly above four deaths per month but I am wandering too much off topic now.

This fellow considers that Tasers are guns...

Malcolm Doherty, former Chairman of Lancashire Police Authority, said he thought the force’s current policy for taser gun use should stay as it is.

He said: “Taser guns are only deployed in a situation where officers feel they would be faced with a gun. (LT 18th October 2012)

not quite sure why this is in the news - unless the culling of more frontline officers is going to made by them