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Robbing the poor...to pay the poor
MORE than 300 town hall staff facing wage cuts are already earning less than £15,000, the Lancashire Telegraph has discovered.
And more than half of the 1,266 'losers' will have their salaries cut by more than 10 per cent.
Information released under the Freedom of Information Act after questions lodged by the Telegraph showed the true extent of the controversial job evaluation process at Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council.
Council chief executive Graham Burgess said there was a higher proportion of winners than losers amongst lower-paid workers.
But Ros Shepherd, of the Transport and General Workers Union said it was "unacceptable" for any low earners to have their wages cut.
And the leader of the opposition party on the council branded the policy "outrageous and heartless".
The changes, which are aimed at addressing historic imbalances in pay between men and women doing similar level jobs, have caused an outcry among council staff.
All three unions in the town hall have voted to reject the settlement, which would make 4,356 workers better off, and are pressing for strike action.
And staff have been sent 'redundancy' notes, giving them a 90-day deadline to accept their new contract or face the sack.
The information released to the Lancashire Telegraph shows:
* 309 people earning less than £15,000 are facing wage cuts.
* 646 people will have their wages cut by more than 10 per cent.
* 84 per cent of a single department, financial services, face reductions
* Children's services includes the highest single number of people losing out, 238.
* 1,100 of the 1,266 people facing cuts earn less than £30,000.
* The most pay rises are found in the social services department, where 412 people, or 50 per cent of staff, are having their salaries increased.
The government has told each council across the country to implement a job evaluation scheme. Blackburn with Darwen is one of the first to agree the new wage scale, which was agreed at a budget council meeting this month.
Each council is in charge of drawing up its own structure, by interviewing staff and negotiating with unions.
Critics claim the lower-paid staff are being hit particularly hard. And the data released shows 309 people earning less than £15,000 face cuts, and 698 of the losers' - more than half of the total - earn less than £20,000. Almost all of the 1,266 facing cuts earn less than £30,000 a year.
Losses of up to £17,000 have been reported by some individuals with some low-paid street cleaners reporting cuts of £3,000 to their salaries.
This week Unison members are writing to their local MP protesting against the changes.
Representatives have drafted a scathing letter claiming there has been a "clear lack of transparency" in the process. It says the council has "manipulated" the job evaluation information - and that the pay line, the benchmark against which salaries are set, is so low there is a "disproportionate detrimental impact on staff".
And members are to be polled this week on whether they would be prepared to go on strike.
Unison branch secretary Katherine Johnson said: "Because of membership numbers, and statistics surrounding winners and losers, we need to make sure there would be sufficient numbers.
"We do not think the process has been applied properly. We knew there would be some losers, but it should have been a lower percentage."
Meanwhile Ms Shepherd, of the TGW, said she was waiting for regional approval to ballot for industrial action.
And she said: "We don't think there should be any losers. It is unacceptable for any low earners to be losing out."
The third-largest union in the town hall, the GMB, is also balloting for strike action.
Kate Hollern, leader of the council's opposition Labour group, said there were even more "losers" than revealed by the council's figures, because some staff were being told to work more hours.
And she claimed some staff classed as staying the same' were actually losing out as they would face less opportunity for promotion.
Labour has put forward alternative proposals to phase in wage reductions by 25 per cent every year over a five-year period.
Coun Hollern said the plans were "robust" and had been approved by the council's head of finance.
She said: "We put it forward because we thought there were some serious flaws in the system, and a five-year period would give us time to address those."
She added: "The whole process has been outrageous, heartless and the way it's been implemented is totally unnecessary."
But council leader Colin Rigby said: "What they have proposed is not an acceptable, practical budget and it's not economic.
"They are saying they would raise the pay line but that would put an extra £6 million on the bill. Are we expected to put up council tax by 15 per cent to cover it? You can't juggle the figures like that and still provide for the borough.
"We had no choice about this. We are still working to try and alleviate it, but it's extremely difficult."
Mr Burgess said more than 80 per cent of staff had already signed up to their new contract.
He said: "A disproportionate number of low-paid workers are in the winners category and there is a higher proportion of losers in the middle to high-paid category.
"The job evaluation framework, as agreed by the unions, takes account of the type of work not the level of pay."
The council would be illegally discriminating by offering more protection to people losing out, he added.
Lancashire County Council is further behind in the process of setting a new wage scale for its staff. Bosses have set aside millions of pounds and insist they are still aiming to implement the scheme in April 2009, although this is thought to be unlikely.
Other councils in East Lancashire, including Burnley and Ribble Valley, have already implemented new scales.
The effect is less acute in smaller councils, however, because they don't employ social services staff who are among the biggest winners from the changes.
10:51pm Wednesday 26th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Scooby, blackburn on 11:01pm Wed 26 Mar 08
How many people are receiving pay rises as a result of this review?
Graham Burgess is quoted as saying more people are coming out of this better, but where are the figures for that LET?
How many people are receiving pay rises as a result of this review?
Graham Burgess is quoted as saying more people are coming out of this better, but where are the figures for that LET?
Posted by: Disgusted on 11:26pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The figures released to the LET are wrong. People are counted as " winners" because they now have to work 37 hours rather than 32 hours for a little more money. The winners are gaining far less than the losers, some as little as £ 12 per year, some counted twice as they have two part time jobs. It's a con. Its OK for Burgess he earns over £ 150000, does not live in the Borough and could be in line for a 10% increase.
Its us the local tax payers who will have to pick up the bill when employees have to claim council tax benefit because they don't earn enough. Or the samll local business, when employees don't have enough money to spend on anything but the essentials.
[bold]Shame on Blackburm[/bold]
The figures released to the LET are wrong. People are counted as " winners" because they now have to work 37 hours rather than 32 hours for a little more money. The winners are gaining far less than the losers, some as little as £ 12 per year, some counted twice as they have two part time jobs. It's a con. Its OK for Burgess he earns over £ 150000, does not live in the Borough and could be in line for a 10% increase.
Its us the local tax payers who will have to pick up the bill when employees have to claim council tax benefit because they don't earn enough. Or the samll local business, when employees don't have enough money to spend on anything but the essentials.
Shame on Blackburm Posted by: confused on 11:34pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Lets get this straight, [bold]Waghat gets £ 7000 for being a benefit cheat. Sidat gets the same for spending most of the year in India[/bold] and Street Cleaners lose £ 3000. There is something wrong here surely.
Lets get this straight,
Waghat gets £ 7000 for being a benefit cheat. Sidat gets the same for spending most of the year in India and Street Cleaners lose £ 3000. There is something wrong here surely.
Posted by: MOOMIN, WORK on 8:21am Thu 27 Mar 08
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.
Posted by: Not inpressed!, Lancashire on 9:19am Thu 27 Mar 08
WHAT!! when are people going to wake up and smell the coffee?
Blackburn with Darwens council and it's cronies are totally corrupt. What more evidence does the public need following this charade. Not to mention the ill gotten gains (of hard working) tax payers money of the benefit thief and women (allegedly) beater!! If the system for job evaluation was fair why were there two seperate ways of evaluating it, not exactly 'equal' in my book!!
There isn't really an awful lot people can do because what they've done is picked on the most vulnerable which is what bullies do, pick on the weak. What these individuals need to remember is that when you dwell in high places it's a long way down and there are more likely to be many more broken bones when they hit the ground. Karma will always redress the balance, no matter who you are :-)
WHAT!! when are people going to wake up and smell the coffee?
Blackburn with Darwens council and it's cronies are totally corrupt. What more evidence does the public need following this charade. Not to mention the ill gotten gains (of hard working) tax payers money of the benefit thief and women (allegedly) beater!! If the system for job evaluation was fair why were there two seperate ways of evaluating it, not exactly 'equal' in my book!!
There isn't really an awful lot people can do because what they've done is picked on the most vulnerable which is what bullies do, pick on the weak. What these individuals need to remember is that when you dwell in high places it's a long way down and there are more likely to be many more broken bones when they hit the ground. Karma will always redress the balance, no matter who you are :-)
Posted by: employee on 9:24am Thu 27 Mar 08
Disgusting behaviour - all one big con - still don't understand why nobody has looked into or fully considered Judicial Review!! Declare the Council to have acted illegally! Surely it would be in the Public’s Interest; after all, the service is sure to drop… Who would maintain their standard of work for less money to save the Council’s rep…? Not me!!! 4 star status down the pan… And residents of the Borough, it’s you that will suffer.
Disgusting behaviour - all one big con - still don't understand why nobody has looked into or fully considered Judicial Review!! Declare the Council to have acted illegally! Surely it would be in the Public’s Interest; after all, the service is sure to drop… Who would maintain their standard of work for less money to save the Council’s rep…? Not me!!! 4 star status down the pan… And residents of the Borough, it’s you that will suffer.
Posted by: loser on 9:30am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote]Graham Burgess said "The council would be illegally discriminating by offering more protection to people losing out, he added."[/quote]
What utter rubbish, other Councils have given three years protection
But council leader Colin Rigby said: "What they have proposed is not an acceptable, practical budget and it's not economic.
[quote]Colin Rigby says "They are saying they would raise the pay line but that would put an extra £6 million on the bill. Are we expected to put up council tax by 15 per cent to cover it? You can't juggle the figures like that and still provide for the borough.[/quote]
Again utter rubbish. Come on Colin tell us how it would be six million, you are scare mongering and you know it. Either that or you are opening your mouth and letting the usual hot air spurt out.You obviously have not looked at the figures, or if you have you don't understand them.
A word of advice Mr Rigby, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and be a proven fool.
Who done your figures Mr Waghat.
Graham Burgess said "The council would be illegally discriminating by offering more protection to people losing out, he added."
What utter rubbish, other Councils have given three years protection
But council leader Colin Rigby said: "What they have proposed is not an acceptable, practical budget and it's not economic.
Colin Rigby says "They are saying they would raise the pay line but that would put an extra £6 million on the bill. Are we expected to put up council tax by 15 per cent to cover it? You can't juggle the figures like that and still provide for the borough.
Again utter rubbish. Come on Colin tell us how it would be six million, you are scare mongering and you know it. Either that or you are opening your mouth and letting the usual hot air spurt out.You obviously have not looked at the figures, or if you have you don't understand them.
A word of advice Mr Rigby, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and be a proven fool.
Who done your figures Mr Waghat.
Posted by: denise on 9:33am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MOOMIN[/bold] wrote:
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.[/quote] Skilled staff shouldn't be on a wage so low...!!! Get wat im sayin
MOOMIN wrote:
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.
Skilled staff shouldn't be on a wage so low...!!! Get wat im sayin
Posted by: GP, Darwen on 10:13am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MOOMIN[/bold] wrote:
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.[/quote] Take a look at the job pages sometime - you get more than £15k as a call centre monkey. If this is your 'real world' then you need to aim higher.
MOOMIN wrote:
What a pity - welcome to the real world of earning less than £15k a year.
Take a look at the job pages sometime - you get more than £15k as a call centre monkey. If this is your 'real world' then you need to aim higher.
Posted by: Ste, Blackburn on 10:14am Thu 27 Mar 08
I work for the Council and am one of the 80% who has signed....I am set to lose £1500 but have [bold]had to sign so that I do not lose my job[/bold] . The whole process has been unfair and no-one I know has won!
I work for the Council and am one of the 80% who has signed....I am set to lose £1500 but have
had to sign so that I do not lose my job . The whole process has been unfair and no-one I know has won!
Posted by: Angry Mum, Blackburn on 10:18am Thu 27 Mar 08
My son is one of those who is threatened with either accept this or loose your job. With one small child and another on the way, he would have my full support(as would all the other poor devils who are loosing pay) if he went on strike
My son is one of those who is threatened with either accept this or loose your job. With one small child and another on the way, he would have my full support(as would all the other poor devils who are loosing pay) if he went on strike
Posted by: discusted and scared blackburn on 10:20am Thu 27 Mar 08
it is supposed to be equal pay between men and women with the same job, well well what a surprise I work with two men and two women we all have the same job description and do exactly the same job, but guess what! who gets paid the most and has won more money the man of course, the other woman and me have lost salary. Its a con it was all just a paper exercise. I know of people who don't have any qualifications whatsoever and they are gaining £8000
it is supposed to be equal pay between men and women with the same job, well well what a surprise I work with two men and two women we all have the same job description and do exactly the same job, but guess what! who gets paid the most and has won more money the man of course, the other woman and me have lost salary. Its a con it was all just a paper exercise. I know of people who don't have any qualifications whatsoever and they are gaining £8000
Posted by: snipsy, blackburn on 10:27am Thu 27 Mar 08
all the skilled workers facing reductions will simply leave blackburn for greneer pastures and blackburn with darwen will spiral down the pan. already the lack of motivation here is affecting quality of council work- this will just get worse
all the skilled workers facing reductions will simply leave blackburn for greneer pastures and blackburn with darwen will spiral down the pan. already the lack of motivation here is affecting quality of council work- this will just get worse
Posted by: Looking elsewhere, now that'd be telling! on 10:39am Thu 27 Mar 08
Losing increments aswell as salary is not my idea of fair... and i won't be signing. i'd rather stay at home and claim benefits than let this corrupt council get away with what it has planned.
skilled workers are what keeps this council in as high regard as it is.. and if they leave, you'll be stuck with the ones who are here as stop gaps and don't care about the service they provide.
[bold]i had pride in my work, but not anymore.[/bold]
rot in hell rigby and burgess!
Losing increments aswell as salary is not my idea of fair... and i won't be signing. i'd rather stay at home and claim benefits than let this corrupt council get away with what it has planned.
skilled workers are what keeps this council in as high regard as it is.. and if they leave, you'll be stuck with the ones who are here as stop gaps and don't care about the service they provide.
i had pride in my work, but not anymore.
rot in hell rigby and burgess!
Posted by: Np Paddle, Blackburn on 10:40am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][italic]Mr Burgess said more than 80 per cent of staff had already signed up to their new contract.[/[/quote] italic]
What would you do sign and keep your job, dont sign and get sacked ?. 80% of people had no choice.
Come on all out, lets show them.
Mr Burgess said more than 80 per cent of staff had already signed up to their new contract.
What would you do sign and keep your job, dont sign and get sacked ?. 80% of people had no choice.
Come on all out, lets show them.
Posted by: Busking for chips..., Blackburn on 10:44am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote]I am set to lose £1500 but have had to sign so that I do not lose my job [/quote]
What a 'head in the sand' attitude! I have stayed more or less the same, but am now at the top of the band meaning I have lost future increments. However, I will not on principle. Even if I had gained £10,000 I would still not agree as I could not see my colleagues lose out.
So come on, let them try and dismiss me. They'll soon be facing an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal.
Those who have silently gained and accepted, shame on you all. Especially as Easter has just pased, I hope you enjoy your pieces of silver.
I am set to lose £1500 but have had to sign so that I do not lose my job
What a 'head in the sand' attitude! I have stayed more or less the same, but am now at the top of the band meaning I have lost future increments. However, I will not on principle. Even if I had gained £10,000 I would still not agree as I could not see my colleagues lose out.
So come on, let them try and dismiss me. They'll soon be facing an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal.
Those who have silently gained and accepted, shame on you all. Especially as Easter has just pased, I hope you enjoy your pieces of silver.
Posted by: forced out, Blackburn on 10:45am Thu 27 Mar 08
I am one of the losers - i am fortunate enough to have found myself a job which will be on an equal salary as to what i am earning now which is £16,000, not counting the £3,500 i was facing losing come march 31st 2009. the council is going to lose quality workers on the front line who actually do the proper work and not sit behind desks thinking about how to cut the budget and where shall i buy my next latte from. i have a wife and baby to think about and thats why i have had to leave, having to think - my mortgage doesnt get job evaluated and decreased. they havent thought about the impact on peoples lives this is having or rather they dont give a hoot. all i can say is the public will lose out heavily so they should pay more attention top all this when strikes happen. unfortunatley i wont be a part of them as im leaving in a month and being forced out.
I am one of the losers - i am fortunate enough to have found myself a job which will be on an equal salary as to what i am earning now which is £16,000, not counting the £3,500 i was facing losing come march 31st 2009. the council is going to lose quality workers on the front line who actually do the proper work and not sit behind desks thinking about how to cut the budget and where shall i buy my next latte from. i have a wife and baby to think about and thats why i have had to leave, having to think - my mortgage doesnt get job evaluated and decreased. they havent thought about the impact on peoples lives this is having or rather they dont give a hoot. all i can say is the public will lose out heavily so they should pay more attention top all this when strikes happen. unfortunatley i wont be a part of them as im leaving in a month and being forced out.
Posted by: Loser2, Blackburn on 10:48am Thu 27 Mar 08
I too stand to loose £6000 and feel like I have been lied to at every turn. I will not be continuing with the goodwill that I have shown over the years and will work to the job overview as will all my colleagues in regeneration (which was the hardest hit department) watch out Blackburn cause if regeneration strike or work to rule then the town will be in a mess.
I too stand to loose £6000 and feel like I have been lied to at every turn. I will not be continuing with the goodwill that I have shown over the years and will work to the job overview as will all my colleagues in regeneration (which was the hardest hit department) watch out Blackburn cause if regeneration strike or work to rule then the town will be in a mess.
Posted by: need new job, blackburn on 10:54am Thu 27 Mar 08
i work for council and i am a winner well an extra £300 a year,there is no motivation in my dept and most staff are unhappy with the way we have been treated, i am currently looking for new job as i have never been so unhappy in work before, no one has had a say and we have been forced into signing eveything put in front of us, its a joke!!!!!
i work for council and i am a winner well an extra £300 a year,there is no motivation in my dept and most staff are unhappy with the way we have been treated, i am currently looking for new job as i have never been so unhappy in work before, no one has had a say and we have been forced into signing eveything put in front of us, its a joke!!!!!
Posted by: out of here, Blackburn on 11:04am Thu 27 Mar 08
I'm a loser, but I have got another Job along with numerose colleagues, It is having an effect this mass migration to other authorities and private practice, Development Control have Agency staff in as that department is decimated. L.E.T. need to ask for a copy of Exit Interviews or the ask for the number leaving, most people have hugged me in corridor and wished me well now I'm out of here.
I'm a loser, but I have got another Job along with numerose colleagues, It is having an effect this mass migration to other authorities and private practice, Development Control have Agency staff in as that department is decimated. L.E.T. need to ask for a copy of Exit Interviews or the ask for the number leaving, most people have hugged me in corridor and wished me well now I'm out of here.
Posted by: J E Isacon, UK on 11:06am Thu 27 Mar 08
The unscientific and fallible job evaluation process used by the Council to downgrade these jobs produces individual job scores that have a significant margin of error. It is how these job scores are translated into grades using a 'pay line' that determines which jobs are regraded up or down and to what extent. The Council could have drawn its 'pay line' to minimise the extent and magnitude of the pay cuts and to avoid already low paid workers being penalised. Instead, it has chosen to draw the 'pay line' to maximise the savings to be achieved by cutting pay. It is also phasing in these pay cuts faster than at most other councils.
The victims are effectively being required to pay for equal pay failings for which they have no responsibility. The Labour Group proposal would mean the Council taking more responsibility for its Equal Pay Act breaches instead of unfairly penalising its workers. The Government has advised councils that the use of balances and capitalisation should help to meet the one-off costs of back pay awarded under Single Status. The Chief Executive is, therefore, being dishonest about the cost to council tax payers of the Labour Group's proposal for the workers to be treated more fairly.
The damage to goodwill and morale engendered by the Council tearing up worker's contracts and imposing life-altering pay cuts will be like a festering sore adversely impacting on services for years to come.
The unscientific and fallible job evaluation process used by the Council to downgrade these jobs produces individual job scores that have a significant margin of error. It is how these job scores are translated into grades using a 'pay line' that determines which jobs are regraded up or down and to what extent. The Council could have drawn its 'pay line' to minimise the extent and magnitude of the pay cuts and to avoid already low paid workers being penalised. Instead, it has chosen to draw the 'pay line' to maximise the savings to be achieved by cutting pay. It is also phasing in these pay cuts faster than at most other councils.
The victims are effectively being required to pay for equal pay failings for which they have no responsibility. The Labour Group proposal would mean the Council taking more responsibility for its Equal Pay Act breaches instead of unfairly penalising its workers. The Government has advised councils that the use of balances and capitalisation should help to meet the one-off costs of back pay awarded under Single Status. The Chief Executive is, therefore, being dishonest about the cost to council tax payers of the Labour Group's proposal for the workers to be treated more fairly.
The damage to goodwill and morale engendered by the Council tearing up worker's contracts and imposing life-altering pay cuts will be like a festering sore adversely impacting on services for years to come.
Posted by: AJS, Blackburn on 11:07am Thu 27 Mar 08
When these so called gainers jobs are handed over to privatised, we will see how many keep this money. Its a cheap cost cutting excersire that the council will not pass back to the rate payers.
When these so called gainers jobs are handed over to privatised, we will see how many keep this money. Its a cheap cost cutting excersire that the council will not pass back to the rate payers.
Posted by: Anon, Blackburn on 11:10am Thu 27 Mar 08
Most of the losers are Blackburn residents which means less money in the area for local businesses etc. Meanwhile the Directors who mainly live outside the Borough receive 10% pay increases.
If the same methods used to push this process through were adopted in another country our Councillors would be crying out that it’s the actions of an oppressive Regime.
I have never witnessed as much corruption within an organisation as I have working here and most of it appears to be the Councillors.
Cllr Rigby is so desperate to maintain power that he has completely ignored what’s best for the Borough and concentrated on what is best for him. The Waghat incident will plague Cllr Rigby for years. It could be described as his “Iraq”, the moment when he sold his soul for power and greed.
Most of the losers are Blackburn residents which means less money in the area for local businesses etc. Meanwhile the Directors who mainly live outside the Borough receive 10% pay increases.
If the same methods used to push this process through were adopted in another country our Councillors would be crying out that it’s the actions of an oppressive Regime.
I have never witnessed as much corruption within an organisation as I have working here and most of it appears to be the Councillors.
Cllr Rigby is so desperate to maintain power that he has completely ignored what’s best for the Borough and concentrated on what is best for him. The Waghat incident will plague Cllr Rigby for years. It could be described as his “Iraq”, the moment when he sold his soul for power and greed.
Posted by: bemused on 11:14am Thu 27 Mar 08
Unfortuanately I do not know what I am going to get yet as I have been sent 2 job evaluations - both wrong - and have been left in limbo. I still had to sign to accept as I to cannot afford to lose my job, although I do not know what I am accepting.
I agree that BwD will lose all the hardworking skilled staff and end up with cheap labour and a disgusting service.
Unfortuanately I do not know what I am going to get yet as I have been sent 2 job evaluations - both wrong - and have been left in limbo. I still had to sign to accept as I to cannot afford to lose my job, although I do not know what I am accepting.
I agree that BwD will lose all the hardworking skilled staff and end up with cheap labour and a disgusting service.
Posted by: Johnnyboy, Blackburn on 11:20am Thu 27 Mar 08
This is a scandalous decision for all concerned in the towns of Blackburn with Darwen.
This really shows what a complete mess the towns are in bankrupt of ideas and along with it money to pay people a good working wage.
This decision takes us a step closer to the victorian era instead of into a brighter future for all.
Everyone has to recognise that this Labour government has been disastrous as they have plundered the goodwill of the nation and set themselves up handsomely with the cash.
This is a scandalous decision for all concerned in the towns of Blackburn with Darwen.
This really shows what a complete mess the towns are in bankrupt of ideas and along with it money to pay people a good working wage.
This decision takes us a step closer to the victorian era instead of into a brighter future for all.
Everyone has to recognise that this Labour government has been disastrous as they have plundered the goodwill of the nation and set themselves up handsomely with the cash.
Posted by: employee, Blackburn on 11:24am Thu 27 Mar 08
Interesting to see the comment (not including schools). What would the figures say then? Currently I am losing £1700. I was heavily involved in the job evaluation process and had hoped that no staff would be losers. Due to the reorganised pay structure many more lost than was expected. These were staff in post for a long time and at top of scale. Because of the adjusted pay line they lost 2 or 3 increments but were still technically on the same grade of work. I suspect that jobs were not as far out as the powers that be expected so adjusted the pay line to have a greater impact. The process has also been carried out unfairly as all processes have not yet been carried out. The mechanisms for completing these processes have still not been decided on and will not be decided on until after the 30 days notice has expired. Surely all this should have been in place at the start and not just arranged to suit the situation
Interesting to see the comment (not including schools). What would the figures say then? Currently I am losing £1700. I was heavily involved in the job evaluation process and had hoped that no staff would be losers. Due to the reorganised pay structure many more lost than was expected. These were staff in post for a long time and at top of scale. Because of the adjusted pay line they lost 2 or 3 increments but were still technically on the same grade of work. I suspect that jobs were not as far out as the powers that be expected so adjusted the pay line to have a greater impact. The process has also been carried out unfairly as all processes have not yet been carried out. The mechanisms for completing these processes have still not been decided on and will not be decided on until after the 30 days notice has expired. Surely all this should have been in place at the start and not just arranged to suit the situation
Posted by: Fred, Ex Blackburn on 12:02pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I have been saying for years that Blackburn is going down the pan. I think this sort of behavoir proves it. The council is going back into the dark ages. So all you affected employees I can only sympathise with you and I really do. However stop feeling sorry for yourselfs and take these B4ST4RDS on. Strike grind them into the ground, no rates collections, no refuse collections or payments to the firms collecting the refuse. I'm sure you get the idea. Don't be worried about your jobs with the fascist dictators you work for who the F*CK would want them.
I have been saying for years that Blackburn is going down the pan. I think this sort of behavoir proves it. The council is going back into the dark ages. So all you affected employees I can only sympathise with you and I really do. However stop feeling sorry for yourselfs and take these B4ST4RDS on. Strike grind them into the ground, no rates collections, no refuse collections or payments to the firms collecting the refuse. I'm sure you get the idea. Don't be worried about your jobs with the fascist dictators you work for who the F*CK would want them.
Posted by: Concerned on 12:10pm Thu 27 Mar 08
The council already knew way before they got to this stage with JE exactly what the outcome would be re job evaluation. The equal pay which did indeed need to be addressed was used to mask the fact that even before the job evaluation process had been concluded, they had already decided what the pay lines would be and basically ensured that whilst evaluating that all points allocated were within a predefined range.
The process itself was inconsistently implemented with pressure put on individuals moderating to complete a certain number of reviews within a defined time. This inevitably would have caused quality issues, further more this was also reflective with the number of appeals generated. At the time of introducing J.E., there was no indication as to the importance of J.E. when initially discussed within the council employees …who would have thought that points literally came down to personal interpretation of individual words such as frequent/often/occas
ionally.
The appeals process is totally flawed and I think the council should be made to publish what framework or structure supported the review of appeals and each individual member of staff should be given immediate access to these records which indicate on what bases appeals had been turned down, or for the few where appeals were successful in the fact it generated a few extra points for them, all the appeal panel did was look to reduce points in another area that they had previously allocated, giving an overall impact of NOTHING !!! How great is a system that allows this. When verbally asked for clarification as to why a decision was made no one is forthcoming with the actual details. With staff members not receiving any response from appeal panels, as quite simply they don’t have an answer.
Now they have decided to start passing the book in terms of who will now respond and provide the information to employees who still have outstanding appeals/complaints.
As for a secondary scheme being used for employees who hold positions of authority, such as heads of service or assistant directors …. Why is it” what is good for the goose is not applicable to the gander”!!!!
And still ……………… the initial purpose of JE was to address gender inequalities. Our survey says =
I DON’T THINK SO. Perhaps the authority should publish a listing of how gender pay gaps have been addressed and how many women v men have equal pay after this very unsafe process has been implemented.
I used to believe that BWDBC was a forward thinking authority; I no longer hold this view. If you wish to pay certain sectors of the councils workforce peanuts! Then you’re going to get exactly what you deserve…. As set of monkeys working for you, and how will this impact on the delivery of many commitments this authority has made to its communities and residents, to its businesses and the local economy, to children and young people and their families.
Existing councillors prepare yourself for it is you that have also approved JE!!! Your days in post are numbered!!! Many employees of the local authority also happen to be members of the local communities of Blackburn with Darwen and I for one will not be giving you my vote. END
The council already knew way before they got to this stage with JE exactly what the outcome would be re job evaluation. The equal pay which did indeed need to be addressed was used to mask the fact that even before the job evaluation process had been concluded, they had already decided what the pay lines would be and basically ensured that whilst evaluating that all points allocated were within a predefined range.
The process itself was inconsistently implemented with pressure put on individuals moderating to complete a certain number of reviews within a defined time. This inevitably would have caused quality issues, further more this was also reflective with the number of appeals generated. At the time of introducing J.E., there was no indication as to the importance of J.E. when initially discussed within the council employees …who would have thought that points literally came down to personal interpretation of individual words such as frequent/often/occas
ionally.
The appeals process is totally flawed and I think the council should be made to publish what framework or structure supported the review of appeals and each individual member of staff should be given immediate access to these records which indicate on what bases appeals had been turned down, or for the few where appeals were successful in the fact it generated a few extra points for them, all the appeal panel did was look to reduce points in another area that they had previously allocated, giving an overall impact of NOTHING !!! How great is a system that allows this. When verbally asked for clarification as to why a decision was made no one is forthcoming with the actual details. With staff members not receiving any response from appeal panels, as quite simply they don’t have an answer.
Now they have decided to start passing the book in terms of who will now respond and provide the information to employees who still have outstanding appeals/complaints.
As for a secondary scheme being used for employees who hold positions of authority, such as heads of service or assistant directors …. Why is it” what is good for the goose is not applicable to the gander”!!!!
And still ……………… the initial purpose of JE was to address gender inequalities. Our survey says =
I DON’T THINK SO. Perhaps the authority should publish a listing of how gender pay gaps have been addressed and how many women v men have equal pay after this very unsafe process has been implemented.
I used to believe that BWDBC was a forward thinking authority; I no longer hold this view. If you wish to pay certain sectors of the councils workforce peanuts! Then you’re going to get exactly what you deserve…. As set of monkeys working for you, and how will this impact on the delivery of many commitments this authority has made to its communities and residents, to its businesses and the local economy, to children and young people and their families.
Existing councillors prepare yourself for it is you that have also approved JE!!! Your days in post are numbered!!! Many employees of the local authority also happen to be members of the local communities of Blackburn with Darwen and I for one will not be giving you my vote. END
Posted by: BwD Employee, BwD on 12:21pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I have worked with BwD BC since it became a unitary authority back in 1998 and have seen many changes.
One of their aims was to try & ensure previous misconceptions of staff having easy jobs and 3 people doing the work of 1, was ended. There were, sadly, cases of this, but not as many as some thought.
Over time this Council has gone from strength to strength, gaining IIP, Beacon Council status, to name but a few. This has all been due, in no small part, to the hard work of its staff - not just down to the Directors, Asst Directors and Heads of Service (the latter of which are new posts and in one case I can think of, ineffective ).
Now, because they like to be first in any new initiative this crap Government (or any come to think of it) call for their councils to implement, without even weighing up whether it's a good thing or not, we're in this mess.
As for ensuring staff are fairly paid across the board, that's utter rubbish. How can it possibly be fair to reduce the wages of almost all staff that were on old scale grades 5/6 & above (but not as high as the upper POs, Soulbury and aforementined snr leadership's grades, some of whom have allowed themselves increases) to enable staff on the bottom scales to receive increases?
Don't misunderstand, I think lower paid staff should be looked after and where their responsibilities are being increased to cover "natural waste" (redundancies, retirement etc where the positions are not being refilled to save money), then it's only fair to up their grade/salary. However, this should not be paid for by decreasing other staff wages to pay for it.
I am in a situation where my job was a new post and not evaluated, so I have no idea what my points will be and therefore my new grade. I am still expected to sign the acceptance letter though and if I don't will be on the list of staff whose current contracts will be terminated after 90 days and then have to sign a new contract containing the new terms (although how that will work when I don't have any, I'm not sure!).
I think this proves how ineffetive and shambolic this council can be and how it relies on the very people that will be leaving in their droves, to get things right.
Like many of the comments posted before, I can't believe that this is legal. It is not just the fact that so many of us are losing money (some as much as £11,000), but also the implications on pensions, which are based on final salaries. Also, even if someone does earn £25,000+ or thereabouts, they have based their cost of living/budgeted on that salary. If a family has children at school, University, or have loans, all the associated costs will have been based on their current wages. How are people expected to cope?
I would like the LET to find out whether the senior leadership team of the council are taking pay cuts please. I will be VERY surprised if that's the case.
As for comments about earning less than £15,000 etc., etc., well that doesn't make it right and as a council they should lead by example, not decide that because private sector workers (I was one for a very long time before starting here) can be crapped on from a great height and not have a leg to stand on, they'll join the club!
I also have knowledge of those with the power in the council, ensuring certain employees are "taken care of", whilst the rest of their staff have to accept their lot or leave. Which I sincerely hope we do - let's see how they cope with the experience, dedication and misplaced loyalty those staff would take with them. It's a shame we can't all have new jobs manufactured for us, so that losing out goes away.
Shame on you BwD BC, your Beacon Status and IIP should be taken off you and I don't know how the CE and all the Directors can sleep at night. You're all disgusting.
I have worked with BwD BC since it became a unitary authority back in 1998 and have seen many changes.
One of their aims was to try & ensure previous misconceptions of staff having easy jobs and 3 people doing the work of 1, was ended. There were, sadly, cases of this, but not as many as some thought.
Over time this Council has gone from strength to strength, gaining IIP, Beacon Council status, to name but a few. This has all been due, in no small part, to the hard work of its staff - not just down to the Directors, Asst Directors and Heads of Service (the latter of which are new posts and in one case I can think of, ineffective ).
Now, because they like to be first in any new initiative this crap Government (or any come to think of it) call for their councils to implement, without even weighing up whether it's a good thing or not, we're in this mess.
As for ensuring staff are fairly paid across the board, that's utter rubbish. How can it possibly be fair to reduce the wages of almost all staff that were on old scale grades 5/6 & above (but not as high as the upper POs, Soulbury and aforementined snr leadership's grades, some of whom have allowed themselves increases) to enable staff on the bottom scales to receive increases?
Don't misunderstand, I think lower paid staff should be looked after and where their responsibilities are being increased to cover "natural waste" (redundancies, retirement etc where the positions are not being refilled to save money), then it's only fair to up their grade/salary. However, this should not be paid for by decreasing other staff wages to pay for it.
I am in a situation where my job was a new post and not evaluated, so I have no idea what my points will be and therefore my new grade. I am still expected to sign the acceptance letter though and if I don't will be on the list of staff whose current contracts will be terminated after 90 days and then have to sign a new contract containing the new terms (although how that will work when I don't have any, I'm not sure!).
I think this proves how ineffetive and shambolic this council can be and how it relies on the very people that will be leaving in their droves, to get things right.
Like many of the comments posted before, I can't believe that this is legal. It is not just the fact that so many of us are losing money (some as much as £11,000), but also the implications on pensions, which are based on final salaries. Also, even if someone does earn £25,000+ or thereabouts, they have based their cost of living/budgeted on that salary. If a family has children at school, University, or have loans, all the associated costs will have been based on their current wages. How are people expected to cope?
I would like the LET to find out whether the senior leadership team of the council are taking pay cuts please. I will be VERY surprised if that's the case.
As for comments about earning less than £15,000 etc., etc., well that doesn't make it right and as a council they should lead by example, not decide that because private sector workers (I was one for a very long time before starting here) can be crapped on from a great height and not have a leg to stand on, they'll join the club!
I also have knowledge of those with the power in the council, ensuring certain employees are "taken care of", whilst the rest of their staff have to accept their lot or leave. Which I sincerely hope we do - let's see how they cope with the experience, dedication and misplaced loyalty those staff would take with them. It's a shame we can't all have new jobs manufactured for us, so that losing out goes away.
Shame on you BwD BC, your Beacon Status and IIP should be taken off you and I don't know how the CE and all the Directors can sleep at night. You're all disgusting.
Posted by: Anon, Blackburn on 12:41pm Thu 27 Mar 08
This whole situation comes down to principles and sacrifice. If everybody refused to sign the new contracts the whole process would have to be withdrawn as they couldn’t possibly sack 5,500 people in one go.
Tough decisions generally involve sacrifice and in my opinion, if you sign the new contract, whether the reason is financial or not you lose your right to voice your dissent.
In the past workers sacrificed their lifestyle to maintain their rights. These days I suspect too many of us are prepared to sacrifice our rights to maintain our lifestyle.
I am well aware that many staff “can’t afford” not to sign the new contracts, but is it “can’t afford” or is it really “not prepared (in the short term) to sacrifice my standard of living”.
I believe the Directors are well of this situation and the “I’m alright Jack” attitude is helping them to push such draconian measures through. This is highlighted by the influence, or should I say lack of influence from the Unions.
This whole situation comes down to principles and sacrifice. If everybody refused to sign the new contracts the whole process would have to be withdrawn as they couldn’t possibly sack 5,500 people in one go.
Tough decisions generally involve sacrifice and in my opinion, if you sign the new contract, whether the reason is financial or not you lose your right to voice your dissent.
In the past workers sacrificed their lifestyle to maintain their rights. These days I suspect too many of us are prepared to sacrifice our rights to maintain our lifestyle.
I am well aware that many staff “can’t afford” not to sign the new contracts, but is it “can’t afford” or is it really “not prepared (in the short term) to sacrifice my standard of living”.
I believe the Directors are well of this situation and the “I’m alright Jack” attitude is helping them to push such draconian measures through. This is highlighted by the influence, or should I say lack of influence from the Unions.
Posted by: MIKE, Blackburn on 12:49pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Did anybody expect this motley crew of a coalition to do any better. It was to be expected from the Tories but the rest of the rag tag and bobtail are just keen to cling on to power and go along with whatever is proposed. Most of them have no idealogical opinions or principles.
If some of the employees have a senior police background or belong to the right freemasons lodge they might have faired better.
Did anybody expect this motley crew of a coalition to do any better. It was to be expected from the Tories but the rest of the rag tag and bobtail are just keen to cling on to power and go along with whatever is proposed. Most of them have no idealogical opinions or principles.
If some of the employees have a senior police background or belong to the right freemasons lodge they might have faired better.
Posted by: I'm off, Darwen on 12:56pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Burgess said more than 80 per cent of staff had already signed up to their new contract.
So What?
The counting of numbers of staff who have returned forms is meaningless anyway. It doesn't mean that 80% of staff are happy to sign or even that they will be working for the council this time next year. All it means is that they now have longer to look for another job.
So don't get smug Burgess - you'll get your ****-uppance one day soon.
I am one of those who is about to loose £10,000 from my salary but I have signed and retuned my form. Not because I wanted too but because my doctor advised me too. This whole process was making me ill and I'm sure I'm not on my own.
All I'm doing now is exactly what it states on my job description, not a bit more not a bit less but in reality it's a lot less than previous when I would go out of my way to help another colleague or do that little bit more for the department. Instead of getting my 90 days notice (which I really wanted to do) I have now got that little bit longer to find another job. And if Burgess and Rigby want me to conduct a 'handover'meeting with whoever comes in to replace me - forget it you won't be getting one. Why? Because it's not in my job description and I hope no-one else does one either.
Burgess said more than 80 per cent of staff had already signed up to their new contract.
So What?
The counting of numbers of staff who have returned forms is meaningless anyway. It doesn't mean that 80% of staff are happy to sign or even that they will be working for the council this time next year. All it means is that they now have longer to look for another job.
So don't get smug Burgess - you'll get your ****-uppance one day soon.
I am one of those who is about to loose £10,000 from my salary but I have signed and retuned my form. Not because I wanted too but because my doctor advised me too. This whole process was making me ill and I'm sure I'm not on my own.
All I'm doing now is exactly what it states on my job description, not a bit more not a bit less but in reality it's a lot less than previous when I would go out of my way to help another colleague or do that little bit more for the department. Instead of getting my 90 days notice (which I really wanted to do) I have now got that little bit longer to find another job. And if Burgess and Rigby want me to conduct a 'handover'meeting with whoever comes in to replace me - forget it you won't be getting one. Why? Because it's not in my job description and I hope no-one else does one either.
Posted by: Steve G, Darwen on 2:45pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I can't see what all the fuss is about...everyone knows that all Council employees have been over-paid for years. Now they'll have to earn the same as the rest of us.
I can't see what all the fuss is about...everyone knows that all Council employees have been over-paid for years. Now they'll have to earn the same as the rest of us.
Posted by: Not again! on 2:52pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Steve G[/bold] wrote:
I can't see what all the fuss is about...everyone knows that all Council employees have been over-paid for years. Now they'll have to earn the same as the rest of us.[/quote] Here we go again - why does everybody think we are still in 1970's Britain where Council workers have a job for life and they are all overpaid........
Some people are so ignorant - let's just hope that employers in the private sector don't catch on - you may just find yourself in the same boat. After all, if government can get away with it and set a precedent for cutting salaries by any amount they decide, surely private companies etc can follow suit??
Count your blessings (and your money) while you have them!
Steve G wrote:
I can't see what all the fuss is about...everyone knows that all Council employees have been over-paid for years. Now they'll have to earn the same as the rest of us.
Here we go again - why does everybody think we are still in 1970's Britain where Council workers have a job for life and they are all overpaid........
Some people are so ignorant - let's just hope that employers in the private sector don't catch on - you may just find yourself in the same boat. After all, if government can get away with it and set a precedent for cutting salaries by any amount they decide, surely private companies etc can follow suit??
Count your blessings (and your money) while you have them!
Posted by: Thanks For Nothing UNISON, Blackburn on 3:07pm Thu 27 Mar 08
What I found most irritating about this scam, it the fact that the Unions signed up to it. To add to the offence, they were asking us to take industrial action for more back pay for the winners. I for one will be withdrawing my contributions, I cant afford to pay for that waste of effort.[quote]quote[/quote]
What I found most irritating about this scam, it the fact that the Unions signed up to it. To add to the offence, they were asking us to take industrial action for more back pay for the winners. I for one will be withdrawing my contributions, I cant afford to pay for that waste of effort.
quote
Posted by: Denise Baron, Blackburn on 3:08pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I have worked for bwd for 25 years I am now facing an 18% cut in my salary. This job evaluation process has put me on salary scale lower than the salary I started on 25 years ago. I have been issued with 90 days notice to accept the terms or leave. It is criminal what this council is being allowed to get away with
I have worked for bwd for 25 years I am now facing an 18% cut in my salary. This job evaluation process has put me on salary scale lower than the salary I started on 25 years ago. I have been issued with 90 days notice to accept the terms or leave. It is criminal what this council is being allowed to get away with
Posted by: Anonymous, Blackburn on 3:20pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Steve G, your comments highlight your ignorance of the facts, so much so that under the current climate you would be perfect as a Councillor...or is it possible you already are one?
Steve G, your comments highlight your ignorance of the facts, so much so that under the current climate you would be perfect as a Councillor...or is it possible you already are one?
Posted by: bystander, lancs on 3:31pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Surely if they went on strike only the scroungers would suffer.
How many times have you visited the Town Hall?
Surely if they went on strike only the scroungers would suffer.
How many times have you visited the Town Hall?
Posted by: MARK, bburn on 3:36pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.
Posted by: Not impressed!, Lancashire on 3:42pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Shame on you BwD BC, your Beacon Status and IIP should be taken off you and I don't know how the CE and all the Directors can sleep at night. You're all disgusting.[quote]quote[/quote]
IIP...............II
P!! thats a laugh. It may be interesting for people to know that the only time the council is concerned with IIP is when they're due up for re accreditation, about.........two or three months before hand It may have escaped the councils notice but IIP is an acronym for [bold]INVESTORS IN PEOPLE[/bold] , perhaps someone should tell them?
Shame on you BwD BC, your Beacon Status and IIP should be taken off you and I don't know how the CE and all the Directors can sleep at night. You're all disgusting.
quote
IIP...............II
P!! thats a laugh. It may be interesting for people to know that the only time the council is concerned with IIP is when they're due up for re accreditation, about.........two or three months before hand It may have escaped the councils notice but IIP is an acronym for
INVESTORS IN PEOPLE , perhaps someone should tell them?
Posted by: Admin, Blackburn on 3:46pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I am an administration assistant who will be losing near enough £2000.
I checked jobs on the Council website today and noticed that my new salary grade will be the same as a cleaners!
Any full time cleaner's jobs going???
I am an administration assistant who will be losing near enough £2000.
I checked jobs on the Council website today and noticed that my new salary grade will be the same as a cleaners!
Any full time cleaner's jobs going???
Posted by: BrighterthanDumbo?, Darwen on 3:52pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MARK[/bold] wrote:
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.[/quote] They have got be better at grammar than you DUMBO!
MARK wrote:
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.
They have got be better at grammar than you DUMBO!
Posted by: disgruntled on 4:10pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]MARK[/bold] wrote:
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.[/quote] what a comlete moron...
do you think that everyone who works for th eocuncil sorts out council tax?
i bet you are one of the idiots who when they see a badge come up bumbling.. "why haven't my bins been emptied?"
well i'll answer it for you shall i?
*BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE THAT EMPTY YOUR BINS ARE LOSING UPWARDS OF £3K K = THOUSAND AS IN KILOBYTE, KILOGRAM, KILOMETER) A YEAR SALARY!
MARK wrote:
Im glad they getting they,re wages cut, have you ever dealt with these dumb gits who work there, they make so many mistakes with council tax errors that most of the work hours are used up in sorting out errors, if they didnt have dumbos working there and errors werent made, they be giving a better service and using them hours elsewhere.
what a comlete moron...
do you think that everyone who works for th eocuncil sorts out council tax?
i bet you are one of the idiots who when they see a badge come up bumbling.. "why haven't my bins been emptied?"
well i'll answer it for you shall i?
*BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE THAT EMPTY YOUR BINS ARE LOSING UPWARDS OF £3K K = THOUSAND AS IN KILOBYTE, KILOGRAM, KILOMETER) A YEAR SALARY!
Posted by: Fred, Ex Blackburn on 4:12pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Bystander who do you think has most of the clout in Blackburn. All the scroungers, dole dopers, and and DHSS work dodgers thats who. Use your head or keep bystanding !!!
Bystander who do you think has most of the clout in Blackburn. All the scroungers, dole dopers, and and DHSS work dodgers thats who. Use your head or keep bystanding !!!
Posted by: Academic, MMU on 4:33pm Thu 27 Mar 08
My husband works in a job that insists he is a qualified teacher, but is not on teachers pay and conditions. His modest salary of 21k has been cut to 17k. He is not signing and is going on the supply register. Newly qualified teachers earn just short of 20k and he has four years experience. Whatever the council are considering in the evaluation process it is clearly not the true worth of the job being done by many modestly paid well-qualified people. At the meeting my husband attended town planners and qualified surveyors also refused to sign and he heard of many well-qualified people who were leaving for jobs in industry.
My husband works in a job that insists he is a qualified teacher, but is not on teachers pay and conditions. His modest salary of 21k has been cut to 17k. He is not signing and is going on the supply register. Newly qualified teachers earn just short of 20k and he has four years experience. Whatever the council are considering in the evaluation process it is clearly not the true worth of the job being done by many modestly paid well-qualified people. At the meeting my husband attended town planners and qualified surveyors also refused to sign and he heard of many well-qualified people who were leaving for jobs in industry.
Posted by: cheers!, blackburn on 4:39pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Ste[/bold] wrote:
I work for the Council and am one of the 80% who has signed....I am set to lose £1500 but have [bold]had to sign so that I do not lose my job[/bold] . The whole process has been unfair and no-one I know has won![/quote] i also work for the council ste and it is because of the likes of you agreeing that this is all set to go ahead! if we all stuck together and did not sign then the council would have had to think of a different option!!! instead ther is nothing more to be done apart from loose our jobs if we now dont sign! thank you very much!!!
Ste wrote:
I work for the Council and am one of the 80% who has signed....I am set to lose £1500 but have had to sign so that I do not lose my job . The whole process has been unfair and no-one I know has won!
i also work for the council ste and it is because of the likes of you agreeing that this is all set to go ahead! if we all stuck together and did not sign then the council would have had to think of a different option!!! instead ther is nothing more to be done apart from loose our jobs if we now dont sign! thank you very much!!!
Posted by: bertie, Blackburn on 4:58pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I am afraid I will not be signing to agree to my £350 pound a month drop, I am not on a big wage and have worked hard to get where I am along with others, paying for my own qualifications etc.. BwD have a cheek and yes we should strike and yes maybe we should try and take legal action, too many have now agreed and signed due to scare mongery! Working for Education is not all it is cracked upto be, loyal service and hard work does not always pay off. This has caused stresed and illness to many. I bet occupational health are working over time costing education and BwD thousands, serves them right[quote]quote
I am afraid I will not be signing to agree to my £350 pound a month drop, I am not on a big wage and have worked hard to get where I am along with others, paying for my own qualifications etc.. BwD have a cheek and yes we should strike and yes maybe we should try and take legal action, too many have now agreed and signed due to scare mongery! Working for Education is not all it is cracked upto be, loyal service and hard work does not always pay off. This has caused stresed and illness to many. I bet occupational health are working over time costing education and BwD thousands, serves them rightquote
Posted by: Worker, Blackburn on 5:00pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Here here cheers! I totally agree.
Ste did have a choice. He refers to "Had to sign so that I do not lose my job".
That was his choice, Job here or new Job elsewhere (even if it means being temporarily unemployed). Ultimately Ste had a choice and you chose to maintain his lifestyle rather than lose his job and move elsewhere.
It is Ste's attitude that the Director's rely on to push these proposals through.
Here here cheers! I totally agree.
Ste did have a choice. He refers to "Had to sign so that I do not lose my job".
That was his choice, Job here or new Job elsewhere (even if it means being temporarily unemployed). Ultimately Ste had a choice and you chose to maintain his lifestyle rather than lose his job and move elsewhere.
It is Ste's attitude that the Director's rely on to push these proposals through.
Posted by: Peeved, Darwen on 6:14pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I can't believe how the Council are managing to get away with all this. All the workers who are on less than £35,000 (approx) had to fill in a JE questionnaire that was around 20 pages long which required a lot of detail and took people quite a bit of time to fill in. People then had to have a JE interview to make sure that they weren't lying saying that they do more than they did. They then decided that the higher paid jobs were to do a different JE questionnaire. They did this JE questionnaire which stated that 'this questionnaire must not be more than 6 pages long'. If they could get a correct overview of someones job in 6 pages why would they make everyone do one that was 20+ pages long first? Well that might be because most higher paid jobs came out so low that they knew that all the managers, heads of service etc would be straight out of the door. So why is Burgess now saying that they can't give more protection to the lower paid workers, as they have already given protection to all their gophers that have made sure that peoples wages haven't gone up too much.
As for the freedom of information request don't beleive all you have been given LET as I only know of about 3 jobs that have received a rise in their salary. Everyone is losing out. There are people doing the exact same job in my office and their jobs have come out with about 2/3 paybands in between them. And then there are the people who don't seem to do much at all but still have higher wages than people who work hard and do a good job.
Equal pay - my a**
Can't wait to get out of working for the Council and as I'm off said, no one will be getting a handover when I leave and my finger might accidentally hit the delete button for all my files on my way out too.....
I can't believe how the Council are managing to get away with all this. All the workers who are on less than £35,000 (approx) had to fill in a JE questionnaire that was around 20 pages long which required a lot of detail and took people quite a bit of time to fill in. People then had to have a JE interview to make sure that they weren't lying saying that they do more than they did. They then decided that the higher paid jobs were to do a different JE questionnaire. They did this JE questionnaire which stated that 'this questionnaire must not be more than 6 pages long'. If they could get a correct overview of someones job in 6 pages why would they make everyone do one that was 20+ pages long first? Well that might be because most higher paid jobs came out so low that they knew that all the managers, heads of service etc would be straight out of the door. So why is Burgess now saying that they can't give more protection to the lower paid workers, as they have already given protection to all their gophers that have made sure that peoples wages haven't gone up too much.
As for the freedom of information request don't beleive all you have been given LET as I only know of about 3 jobs that have received a rise in their salary. Everyone is losing out. There are people doing the exact same job in my office and their jobs have come out with about 2/3 paybands in between them. And then there are the people who don't seem to do much at all but still have higher wages than people who work hard and do a good job.
Equal pay - my a**
Can't wait to get out of working for the Council and as I'm off said, no one will be getting a handover when I leave and my finger might accidentally hit the delete button for all my files on my way out too.....
Posted by: BBURN PRISONER (AKA - EMPLOYEE) on 6:44pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Please feel free to drop your comments o: graham.burgess@black
burn.gov.uk or alternativelty: harry.catherall@blac
kburn.gov.uk
Someone really should put in an FOI requesting info on the amount of money down the drain due to 'Projects gone wrong' and the amount of projects that do go wrong...
Did I hear someone mention rural futures??
Please feel free to drop your comments o: graham.burgess@black
burn.gov.uk or alternativelty: harry.catherall@blac
kburn.gov.uk
Someone really should put in an FOI requesting info on the amount of money down the drain due to 'Projects gone wrong' and the amount of projects that do go wrong...
Did I hear someone mention rural futures??
Posted by: WORKING FOR PEANUTS, ACCY on 6:48pm Thu 27 Mar 08
please please please put in an foi requesting 'how much money the council has spent in the last financial year on agency staff and consultants'
Then my friends, you may begin to realise where your money is going...
please please please put in an foi requesting 'how much money the council has spent in the last financial year on agency staff and consultants'
Then my friends, you may begin to realise where your money is going...
Posted by: a, blackburn on 7:03pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Looking elsewhere[/bold] wrote:
Losing increments aswell as salary is not my idea of fair... and i won\'t be signing. i\'d rather stay at home and claim benefits than let this corrupt council get away with what it has planned. skilled workers are what keeps this council in as high regard as it is.. and if they leave, you\'ll be stuck with the ones who are here as stop gaps and don\'t care about the service they provide. [bold]i had pride in my work, but not anymore.[/bold] rot in hell rigby and burgess![/quote] there are plenty of people to take up your jobs people!! even graduates dont earn 15 grand or more.
Looking elsewhere wrote:
Losing increments aswell as salary is not my idea of fair... and i won\'t be signing. i\'d rather stay at home and claim benefits than let this corrupt council get away with what it has planned. skilled workers are what keeps this council in as high regard as it is.. and if they leave, you\'ll be stuck with the ones who are here as stop gaps and don\'t care about the service they provide. i had pride in my work, but not anymore. rot in hell rigby and burgess!
there are plenty of people to take up your jobs people!! even graduates dont earn 15 grand or more.
Posted by: annoyed on 7:15pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote]there are plenty of people to take up your jobs people!! even graduates dont earn 15 grand or more.[/quote]
Blackburn How much do you earn ? Would you be happy to lose 25% when your mortgage is based on your current earnings. This selfish attitude makes me sick. There are hundreds of honest decent people being bullied to accept a huge cut in their salaries. Surely it must be illegal, an employment contract must have some standing, or has the Directors who set these jobs at the current rate got it totally wrong. I dont think 16K for a road sweeper is a huge wage, nor do I think an administrator earning 13k is overpaid. But I do think Councillors picking up £ 7000 to travel or falsly claim benefits is an absolute discrase. Take it off of them and £ 20K of each director and we can protect the lower paid, who after all are the ones who deliver the service.
there are plenty of people to take up your jobs people!! even graduates dont earn 15 grand or more.
Blackburn How much do you earn ? Would you be happy to lose 25% when your mortgage is based on your current earnings. This selfish attitude makes me sick. There are hundreds of honest decent people being bullied to accept a huge cut in their salaries. Surely it must be illegal, an employment contract must have some standing, or has the Directors who set these jobs at the current rate got it totally wrong. I dont think 16K for a road sweeper is a huge wage, nor do I think an administrator earning 13k is overpaid. But I do think Councillors picking up £ 7000 to travel or falsly claim benefits is an absolute discrase. Take it off of them and £ 20K of each director and we can protect the lower paid, who after all are the ones who deliver the service.
Posted by: cleaner, blackburn on 7:24pm Thu 27 Mar 08
what ashame fpr the poor button pushers,if you tured the heating down in them offices then maybe you get a payrise,you would'nt last a day as a cleaner they work hard for their money,keeping places like your office clean ,it must be hard work drinking coffee and pushing buttons , you will find out what it's like to be payed peanuts just like the hard working people that do a proper days work everyday not just monday-friday.get over it lazy.
what ashame fpr the poor button pushers,if you tured the heating down in them offices then maybe you get a payrise,you would'nt last a day as a cleaner they work hard for their money,keeping places like your office clean ,it must be hard work drinking coffee and pushing buttons , you will find out what it's like to be payed peanuts just like the hard working people that do a proper days work everyday not just monday-friday.get over it lazy.
Posted by: mandy, blackbrrn on 7:55pm Thu 27 Mar 08
im a site supervisor (cleaner) and i work hard and so do many others it's hard for everyone not just you poor admin so try thinknig befor you start typing
im a site supervisor (cleaner) and i work hard and so do many others it's hard for everyone not just you poor admin so try thinknig befor you start typing
Posted by: Being forced to work for BwD in May 08, soon to be Tower Block of Terror on 8:06pm Thu 27 Mar 08
BwD Council is a total farce, the people in the highest paid jobs who won't be lose out because of JE are the worst, they are lazy and unqualified.
I am disappointed that the majority of those on "notice" now have backed down and signed their letters, get a bit of [bold]back bone[/bold] , what the hell would they have done on 1st June when you didn't turn in for work becuase they wouldn't have been able to do your jobs.
Also, for those of you still on notice, contact HR and see if you can have time off work for interviews...I think you'll find they don't even know if you are entitled to that !
Finally, as for Kate Hollern, does she think that everyone has forgotten that she was Leader when this whole process started. Don't try and use this to get back into power come election day in May, you and the Union are to blame for all of this. It was not a mandatory process, each council had a choice and you KATE HOLLERN decided that this would be it. If you do get back in, enjoy running a council with unmotiviated staff with no loyalty - screwed up big time.
BwD Council is a total farce, the people in the highest paid jobs who won't be lose out because of JE are the worst, they are lazy and unqualified.
I am disappointed that the majority of those on "notice" now have backed down and signed their letters, get a bit of
back bone , what the hell would they have done on 1st June when you didn't turn in for work becuase they wouldn't have been able to do your jobs.
Also, for those of you still on notice, contact HR and see if you can have time off work for interviews...I think you'll find they don't even know if you are entitled to that !
Finally, as for Kate Hollern, does she think that everyone has forgotten that she was Leader when this whole process started. Don't try and use this to get back into power come election day in May, you and the Union are to blame for all of this. It was not a mandatory process, each council had a choice and you KATE HOLLERN decided that this would be it. If you do get back in, enjoy running a council with unmotiviated staff with no loyalty - screwed up big time.
Posted by: anon, yorkshire on 9:54pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Fred[/bold] wrote:
I have been saying for years that Blackburn is going down the pan. I think this sort of behavoir proves it. The council is going back into the dark ages. So all you affected employees I can only sympathise with you and I really do. However stop feeling sorry for yourselfs and take these B4ST4RDS on. Strike grind them into the ground, no rates collections, no refuse collections or payments to the firms collecting the refuse. I\'m sure you get the idea. Don\'t be worried about your jobs with the fascist dictators you work for who the F*CK would want them. [/quote] Good on you Fred, thank god there are some of us still out there who care about the working man/women, this is criminal but if the staff of Blackburn Council do not stand together they will be stuffed, those of you who are to tight to part with £10 a month to be in a Union have paid the price! Get off you backsides and fight, join a Union and get them to organise and take this lot on. This is simply wrong, the Employees have worked to a systme given to them by the Employer, CHEATED ONCE NOW THE EMPLOYER WANTS TO CHEAT THEM AGAIN, is this fair? I don't think so. I would be happy and proud to support those staff brave enough to fight this, but you need to organise and use the Unions on site. As for the winners, well watch out for tomorrow you my need your work cooleagues to support you in the future?
Fred wrote:
I have been saying for years that Blackburn is going down the pan. I think this sort of behavoir proves it. The council is going back into the dark ages. So all you affected employees I can only sympathise with you and I really do. However stop feeling sorry for yourselfs and take these B4ST4RDS on. Strike grind them into the ground, no rates collections, no refuse collections or payments to the firms collecting the refuse. I\'m sure you get the idea. Don\'t be worried about your jobs with the fascist dictators you work for who the F*CK would want them.
Good on you Fred, thank god there are some of us still out there who care about the working man/women, this is criminal but if the staff of Blackburn Council do not stand together they will be stuffed, those of you who are to tight to part with £10 a month to be in a Union have paid the price! Get off you backsides and fight, join a Union and get them to organise and take this lot on. This is simply wrong, the Employees have worked to a systme given to them by the Employer, CHEATED ONCE NOW THE EMPLOYER WANTS TO CHEAT THEM AGAIN, is this fair? I don't think so. I would be happy and proud to support those staff brave enough to fight this, but you need to organise and use the Unions on site. As for the winners, well watch out for tomorrow you my need your work cooleagues to support you in the future?
Posted by: cosy in my office on 10:02pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Do cleaners need qualifications?? Admin staff do and that's why generally they tend to be paid more.
Do cleaners need qualifications?? Admin staff do and that's why generally they tend to be paid more.
Posted by: angry on 12:12am Fri 28 Mar 08
Employees BEWARE.
They are coming for you next.
Up the profits, lower the wages
Employees BEWARE.
They are coming for you next.
Up the profits