Judge Richard Mawrey QC came to fame three years ago when he said the system of postal voting in this country was what might be expected in a 'banana republic'.
He removed from office certain Labour councillors in Birmingham who in 2004 had organised a massive fraud by diverting postal votes to 'vote factories' where they were filled in by party workers.
Similar practices in Pendle were front page news in this newspaper a couple of years earlier though without any come-uppance in the courts.
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Now Mr Mawrey has spoken again.
Last week he gave judgement on an election in Slough in which a Conservative councillor gained election by 'corrupt and illegal practices'.
What he and his mates did was to register the names of hundreds of bogus 'ghost' voters in derelict houses and the like, send in applications for postal votes, fill them in and post them back.
Mr Mawrey said that 'the system of registering voters in Great Britain may fairly be described as shambolic'.
And he added that our European neighbours 'are saddened to observe the authorities of the United Kingdom apparently indifferent to the debauching of democracy by widespread and persistent fraud'.
The people who diverted some 60 postal votes from Pendle to two small terraced houses in Rochdale got away without a prosecution, but we've seen successful prosecutions of a Labour Councillor in Blackburn for postal vote fiddling and two Liberal Democrats in Burnley for fraudulent proxy applications.
And, believe me, it's going on now. There are wards where large numbers of voters are being asked, persuaded or told to sign for postal votes for the elections on May 1.
The votes arrive in the post, soon (or very soon) to be followed by a party worker scooping them up - and who knows whether they will be filled in legally or not in each case.
Every year elections are being rigged in some wards in some places.
This is not a party political point. It's a sad fact that if the system can be easily fiddled, some people will do so. Not many get caught.
Postal votes on demand are often 'convenient' (the government's word).
But they lead too easily to corruption or (Richard Mawrey's word) debauchery.
Posted by: khan, Brierfield on 12:18pm Tue 25 Mar 08
talk about being a hypocrite, I know of Mr Greaves own party going round in Brierfield thretening people last year if they didn't hand over their votes, he needs to look in the mirror at himself!!
talk about being a hypocrite, I know of Mr Greaves own party going round in Brierfield thretening people last year if they didn't hand over their votes, he needs to look in the mirror at himself!!
Posted by: Burnley Taxpayer, Burnley on 12:46pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Postal votes should only be available to those with a medical certificate to say they cannot attend the polling station. Being on holiday, abroad or just too idle to waddle to the polling station is not an excuse to be given a postal vote.
Postal votes should only be available to those with a medical certificate to say they cannot attend the polling station. Being on holiday, abroad or just too idle to waddle to the polling station is not an excuse to be given a postal vote.
I agree with Khan, all the parties are guilty of what Clr Greaves is saying but based upon personal expereince his party are the biggest culprits in this
I agree with Khan, all the parties are guilty of what Clr Greaves is saying but based upon personal expereince his party are the biggest culprits in this
Posted by: Nostradamous, Blackburn on 1:34pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I agree with the liberal guy here,now that there is an element in our midst that will cheat,the privelegde of postal voting must cease,this wasnt there a few years ago but it has been introduced to our trusting system by unscrupulous people who will do anything to gain power,i wonder were they have brought the idea from..LOL
I agree with the liberal guy here,now that there is an element in our midst that will cheat,the privelegde of postal voting must cease,this wasnt there a few years ago but it has been introduced to our trusting system by unscrupulous people who will do anything to gain power,i wonder were they have brought the idea from..LOL
I have come to conclusion that I am really quite ill for I find myself in agreement with the Noble Lord for the second time in a week. I must go and see my doctor.
To be serious, and the matter raised by Lord Greaves is very serious, once a voting system is no longer secure then the whole basis of democracy is undermined.
The ruling elites at Westminster have been very careless, to the point of recklessness, with our democracy.
Instead of compromising the reliability and validity of the voting system they should concentrate their efforts on energizing the electorate.
My eldest daughter has been entitled to vote for some years now. I tried to explain to her the importance of engaging in the democratic process and at one point said to her, "To be able to change our government peacefully with nothing more than a pencil and a piece of paper is a remarkable and precious thing. People have died for folks to have universal sufferage. Surely you know about Emily Pankhurst and the Sufferajets?" "No", came the reply. It was at this point that I realised we are doomed for we have an education system that teaches children a lot of stuff but much of it is useless and ignores the really important things.
I have come to conclusion that I am really quite ill for I find myself in agreement with the Noble Lord for the second time in a week. I must go and see my doctor.
To be serious, and the matter raised by Lord Greaves is very serious, once a voting system is no longer secure then the whole basis of democracy is undermined.
The ruling elites at Westminster have been very careless, to the point of recklessness, with our democracy.
Instead of compromising the reliability and validity of the voting system they should concentrate their efforts on energizing the electorate.
My eldest daughter has been entitled to vote for some years now. I tried to explain to her the importance of engaging in the democratic process and at one point said to her, "To be able to change our government peacefully with nothing more than a pencil and a piece of paper is a remarkable and precious thing. People have died for folks to have universal sufferage. Surely you know about Emily Pankhurst and the Sufferajets?" "No", came the reply. It was at this point that I realised we are doomed for we have an education system that teaches children a lot of stuff but much of it is useless and ignores the really important things.
Posted by: Albert, Barrowford on 5:35pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Mirror Mirror on the wall ...
Cllr Greaves is right that their is abuse of the voting system but he fails to mention its all parties. I remember living in Whitefield and having Li/Dem activists asking me to sign proxy votes ..giving away my vote to someone else.
At least PV's allow the pwerson to vote and we should if we doubt that someone hasn't signed check the signatures by the council officers (wqe do pay them a lot)
I can see where Cllr Greaves is coming from ..its election time and he thinks he is going to get a pasting (about time) so lets blame Labour and the Tories.
May be its time he packed it in and spend more time at his retirement home ..the Lords at tax payers expense !![bold]bold[/bold] [italic]italic[/italic]
Mirror Mirror on the wall ...
Cllr Greaves is right that their is abuse of the voting system but he fails to mention its all parties. I remember living in Whitefield and having Li/Dem activists asking me to sign proxy votes ..giving away my vote to someone else.
At least PV's allow the pwerson to vote and we should if we doubt that someone hasn't signed check the signatures by the council officers (wqe do pay them a lot)
I can see where Cllr Greaves is coming from ..its election time and he thinks he is going to get a pasting (about time) so lets blame Labour and the Tories.
May be its time he packed it in and spend more time at his retirement home ..the Lords at tax payers expense !!
Posted by: Nostradamous, Blackburn. on 2:35pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Well it does appear that the general concensus is for some kind of protection against false voting,but how can this be done?The government of the day(whoever is the government) will not want in anyway to jeperdise there future chances of winning,PR is a great system but that will never be adopted as the two main parties would deff lose out by that system,no guys we are stuck with this untill we see that this now fragile system has brought forward another A.Hitler or simular(mind we have only just got rid of one of those..LOL),,I cant see anyone wanting to change this excepting of course the liberal party,but Postal votes are very dangerous now espec when we have voters who have no idea as to why and who they are voting for,it really all depends on who there leader says to vote for,we are a shambles in truth and we should now readdress many issues.
Well it does appear that the general concensus is for some kind of protection against false voting,but how can this be done?The government of the day(whoever is the government) will not want in anyway to jeperdise there future chances of winning,PR is a great system but that will never be adopted as the two main parties would deff lose out by that system,no guys we are stuck with this untill we see that this now fragile system has brought forward another A.Hitler or simular(mind we have only just got rid of one of those..LOL),,I cant see anyone wanting to change this excepting of course the liberal party,but Postal votes are very dangerous now espec when we have voters who have no idea as to why and who they are voting for,it really all depends on who there leader says to vote for,we are a shambles in truth and we should now readdress many issues.
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