Canon Michael Wedgeworth looks to a new educational future for Blackburn.
Blackburn: a university town? It's more than possible.
A couple of weeks ago Gordon Brown announced that the Government is planning 10 new universities to be located in less prosperous areas of the country.
I am shortly to end my term as Chair of the governing body of Blackburn College, and nothing would please me more than that the efforts which have been underway to expand our higher education work should come to fruition over the next few years in the creation of a new university here.
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It has always been a moving experience over the years to attend the annual Higher Education Awards ceremony at King George's Hall and see so many mature students receive their degrees.
You always hear stifled shouts of "well done Mum" from a child in the audience, but this year was the first time I heard anyone cry out "Well done, Grandma"
Of course, dads got awards also. Many parents are taking a second chance after rearing young children to get the qualifications they always hoped for.
These students can't live away from home, nor in the style of the young undergraduate.
A university on their doorstep is the only way they can combine study with family responsibilities.
I hope and expect that religious studies would feature on the curriculum of a university serving East Lancashire.
I say this not because I want special privileges for my faith, but because any university must give its students the opportunity to grapple with fundamental questions.
And there is a growing demand that this should be done, not from established leaders, but from the consumers of education, students themselves.
Religion in its many forms trades in why' questions, rather than the how' questions of science.
Faiths respond to the really basic issues of meaning and existence and moral purpose.
In an area like this, mutual understanding and co-operation between Christianity, Islam, Judaism and dialogue between them and secular opinion is critical to community cohesion.
The Cathedral, through its Exchange programme led by Chris Chivers and Anjum Anwar, is playing a big, innovative role in all this.
Could this is the forerunner of a department of faith studies at the new University of Blackburn?
Posted by: Ian the Beancounter, Darwen on 11:45am Mon 10 Mar 08
[quote]Could this is the forerunner of a department of faith studies at the new University of Blackburn?
[/quote]
I sincerely hope not!! In my opinion, halls of education need to prepare people for a career and the realities of life. There is nothing "real" about religion. If someone does feel the need to learn about religion (and who am I to say they shouldn't just because I'm an atheist), then there are enough churches, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, etc, to cater for that need without deflecting people away from the true purpose of education.
Could this is the forerunner of a department of faith studies at the new University of Blackburn?
I sincerely hope not!! In my opinion, halls of education need to prepare people for a career and the realities of life. There is nothing "real" about religion. If someone does feel the need to learn about religion (and who am I to say they shouldn't just because I'm an atheist), then there are enough churches, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, etc, to cater for that need without deflecting people away from the true purpose of education.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 1:38pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Religion presents an opportunity to grapple with fundamental confusion. It offers no answers. Just presents more un-answerable questions.
It's simply a question of which Brand of un-answerable questions would you like to grapple with. Religion offers no solution. It Answers no questions.
I agree with Ian.
Religion presents an opportunity to grapple with fundamental confusion. It offers no answers. Just presents more un-answerable questions.
It's simply a question of which Brand of un-answerable questions would you like to grapple with. Religion offers no solution. It Answers no questions.
The only reason for investing in education is that it should be broadening. I can hardly credit the comments of Ian and Simplysimon. If you want to learn about history, go to the archives - no place in university for that. And anyway, with history there are no facts - there are only perspectives, which change over time. Or music - don't bother studying that at uni - there are plenty of downloads available if you like that kind of thing. Or english literature or media studies - these are just experiences that you can have anywhere, and then put to good use if you are that way inclined.
Surely you can't expect students and community to invest large sums in education unless it is really a mind blowing exploration with students rubbing shoulders with people following all kinds of disciplines, offering their insights and perspectives for LIVING in todays world.
And surely, how people have incorpoated faith into their lives in the past and now is a vital part of that gathering of perspectives.
The only reason for investing in education is that it should be broadening. I can hardly credit the comments of Ian and Simplysimon. If you want to learn about history, go to the archives - no place in university for that. And anyway, with history there are no facts - there are only perspectives, which change over time. Or music - don't bother studying that at uni - there are plenty of downloads available if you like that kind of thing. Or english literature or media studies - these are just experiences that you can have anywhere, and then put to good use if you are that way inclined.
Surely you can't expect students and community to invest large sums in education unless it is really a mind blowing exploration with students rubbing shoulders with people following all kinds of disciplines, offering their insights and perspectives for LIVING in todays world.
And surely, how people have incorpoated faith into their lives in the past and now is a vital part of that gathering of perspectives.
There are more than enough mickey-mouse degree courses about without another one. BA(Hons) in "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
Lots of complaining about lowering of educational standards in this country. This would just be another example.
I can only think degree course in RE would be possible if it was paid for in full by religious bodies out of their copious wealth. Otherwise it would be at the expense of proper educational disciplines.
[quote]Faiths respond to the really basic issues of meaning and existence and moral purpose.[/quote]
Happy to disagree!
There are more than enough mickey-mouse degree courses about without another one. BA(Hons) in "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
Lots of complaining about lowering of educational standards in this country. This would just be another example.
I can only think degree course in RE would be possible if it was paid for in full by religious bodies out of their copious wealth. Otherwise it would be at the expense of proper educational disciplines.
Faiths respond to the really basic issues of meaning and existence and moral purpose.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 2:54pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Hi cantoris,
There is no doubt that Religion exists. There is no doubt that Religion existed in the past. Religion and History are con-joined.
People like to study all manner of things. They can get grants and certificates and People are employed in the Education Industry to teach these subjects.
But let's not put too much Faith in them being in the slightest way beneficial to man. Entertaining? possibly. Time consumming? definitely. Of significant value? Unlikely.
Religion is simple - Choose a brand. Swap your brand. Nothing more than a sticking plaster for all we do not fathom.
Spirituality is another, for all the vague and strange things we cannot understand rationaly.
There is no Real Knowledge in these things.
Hi cantoris,
There is no doubt that Religion exists. There is no doubt that Religion existed in the past. Religion and History are con-joined.
People like to study all manner of things. They can get grants and certificates and People are employed in the Education Industry to teach these subjects.
But let's not put too much Faith in them being in the slightest way beneficial to man. Entertaining? possibly. Time consumming? definitely. Of significant value? Unlikely.
Religion is simple - Choose a brand. Swap your brand. Nothing more than a sticking plaster for all we do not fathom.
Spirituality is another, for all the vague and strange things we cannot understand rationaly.
Posted by: Nostradamous, B/burn on 3:31pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Someone here as really got to be joking,another pointless university town,and i say this because seriously it is a joke, talk about devalueing education,and all this under the guise "the modern world" these three words are simply well over used,lets change our view on bible meaning,why,to suit "the modern world",lets change our view on subjects we teach,why, to suit "the modern world"lets keep the old tried and tested priniples,no way,why, we need to suit "the modern world".
So the modern world brings to Blackburn a uni,sorry but i would sooner see some work places for our youngsters to earn a living,i do honestly believe that youngsters today are asked to survive off nothing at all,or parents hand outs,this is not good for society in general as it does encourage laziness and we all know what idle hands find to do, to be honest what are all these kids going to do with all these worthless and devalued degrees,it is shocking really.
Someone here as really got to be joking,another pointless university town,and i say this because seriously it is a joke, talk about devalueing education,and all this under the guise "the modern world" these three words are simply well over used,lets change our view on bible meaning,why,to suit "the modern world",lets change our view on subjects we teach,why, to suit "the modern world"lets keep the old tried and tested priniples,no way,why, we need to suit "the modern world".
So the modern world brings to Blackburn a uni,sorry but i would sooner see some work places for our youngsters to earn a living,i do honestly believe that youngsters today are asked to survive off nothing at all,or parents hand outs,this is not good for society in general as it does encourage laziness and we all know what idle hands find to do, to be honest what are all these kids going to do with all these worthless and devalued degrees,it is shocking really.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 3:46pm Mon 10 Mar 08
People need to WAKE UP! to live this life with Consciousness. To be a Thriving entity not a dead weight. Wake Up!
The moment we lose our connection with Divinity. HELL SHOWS UP! It's Automatic! WAKE UP! If you are NOT IN HEAVEN, You must be living a life of Hell!
Re-claim that Connection. Re-claim that Joy! Re-claim that sense of Gratitude!
There is no Heaven outside of you! Wake Up! Young or old, rich or poor, educated or un educated. [bold]WAKE UP![/bold]
People need to WAKE UP! to live this life with Consciousness. To be a Thriving entity not a dead weight. Wake Up!
The moment we lose our connection with Divinity. HELL SHOWS UP! It's Automatic! WAKE UP! If you are NOT IN HEAVEN, You must be living a life of Hell!
Re-claim that Connection. Re-claim that Joy! Re-claim that sense of Gratitude!
There is no Heaven outside of you! Wake Up! Young or old, rich or poor, educated or un educated. WAKE UP!
Posted by: Michael Wedgeworth, Blackburn on 8:24pm Tue 11 Mar 08
It would be nice for us all to come out of hiding, say who we really are, and meet up over a pint.
Meanwhile, will Ian the Beancounter, Simplysimon and Nostradamus allow me to suggest that they have made some breathtaking statements which don't stand up?
Ian: "there's nothing real about religion" : if so, why are there billions of people in the world who believe in a god; they surely must find this a reality in their lives. I assume what Ian means is that he does find any reality in it. Fair enough. But I don't think he can speak for all (and in truth,atheism is very much a minority religion).
Marcus doesn't want 'Mickey Mouse' degree courses.Who does? I'm not sure whether he is objecting to the standard or to the subject of
such courses.
The fact is that the standard of degrees - validated by Lancaster University - taken and achieved at Blackburn College is remarkably high. And it seems self-evident that studies which embrace religion/theology/ philosophy/ethics/in the context of history, civilisation and politics are anything but Mickey Mouse.
Nostradamus objects to wanting to see such things in the context of 'the modern world' I'll say nothing about his mistaken spelling when he claims that I am 'devalueing education'. But if education has nothing to do with the modern world (as presumably he prefers)90% of the justification for it disappears.
Come on lads, you can do better than that!
It would be nice for us all to come out of hiding, say who we really are, and meet up over a pint.
Meanwhile, will Ian the Beancounter, Simplysimon and Nostradamus allow me to suggest that they have made some breathtaking statements which don't stand up?
Ian: "there's nothing real about religion" : if so, why are there billions of people in the world who believe in a god; they surely must find this a reality in their lives. I assume what Ian means is that he does find any reality in it. Fair enough. But I don't think he can speak for all (and in truth,atheism is very much a minority religion).
Marcus doesn't want 'Mickey Mouse' degree courses.Who does? I'm not sure whether he is objecting to the standard or to the subject of
such courses.
The fact is that the standard of degrees - validated by Lancaster University - taken and achieved at Blackburn College is remarkably high. And it seems self-evident that studies which embrace religion/theology/ philosophy/ethics/in the context of history, civilisation and politics are anything but Mickey Mouse.
Nostradamus objects to wanting to see such things in the context of 'the modern world' I'll say nothing about his mistaken spelling when he claims that I am 'devalueing education'. But if education has nothing to do with the modern world (as presumably he prefers)90% of the justification for it disappears.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 1:28pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Dear Michael,
People have put their chosen 'belief' of the reality of God before the [bold]Actual Reality[/bold] of God.
Atheism has put it's non-belief of the reality of God before the Actual Reality of God.
Theism and Atheism are two religious logics that are making the same exact error.
Belief and non-belief are not Eternal. They conflict and they can change. Atheists can become Theists and vice-versa. God can be veiwed as being or not being. Existing or not existing.
The Actuality of The Eternal Truth is not subject to any change of any kind. It is Eternal.
Theists think there is, They don't know it. Atheists think there isn't, They don't know it. Only those who [bold]actually[/bold] want to know will ever be able to know.
There is information, tons of it on both sides of the argument. But a ton of information cannot be compared to one gramme of Knowing.
I can only help those who want to know. I can accept a pint from them.
Dear Michael,
People have put their chosen 'belief' of the reality of God before the Actual Reality of God.
Atheism has put it's non-belief of the reality of God before the Actual Reality of God.
Theism and Atheism are two religious logics that are making the same exact error.
Belief and non-belief are not Eternal. They conflict and they can change. Atheists can become Theists and vice-versa. God can be veiwed as being or not being. Existing or not existing.
The Actuality of The Eternal Truth is not subject to any change of any kind. It is Eternal.
Theists think there is, They don't know it. Atheists think there isn't, They don't know it. Only those who actually want to know will ever be able to know.
There is information, tons of it on both sides of the argument. But a ton of information cannot be compared to one gramme of Knowing.
I can only help those who want to know. I can accept a pint from them.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 2:51pm Wed 12 Mar 08
[bold][bold]REAL KNOWLEDGE comes with a Heart-felt Certainty.[/[/bold]
Interpretations and Ambiguity of the Information will always be transient and shifting.
REAL KNOWLEDGE comes with a Heart-felt Certainty.
Interpretations and Ambiguity of the Information will always be transient and shifting.
[quote]studies which embrace religion/theology/ philosophy/ethics/in the context of history, civilisation and politics[/quote]
ie "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
or " an easy cop-out to try to explain what we cannot understand"
why do people believe in religion?
Why do people [italic]not[/italic] believe in religion?
Mother Theresa lost her faith for decades. She hid this from the world. Maybe many other religious leaders feel the same way but are too scared to "come out" for fear of vilification and exclusion from their club.
Why is "The God Delusion" a global best seller? Except of course in countries run by theocracies where it is banned; the ultimate aim of religion being to control the populace.
That failing, the aim being to maintain the lifestyles of those in charge and to profit from acting in exactly the opposite way to how it preaches.
(witness: annual report and accounts of the church commissioners)
[quote]if so, why are there billions of people in the world who believe in a god; they surely must find this a reality in their lives[/quote]
Oh dear. What is reality? The reality of indoctrination? Or the reality of what is [italic]provable[/italic] to exist?
Religious belief has absolutely NOTHING to do with reality.
The reality of belief has nothing to do with reality of existance.
There used to be billions of people who believed in different gods; many of these religions were destroyed by christianity.
Why should their belief systems be rubbished and christianity be the truth?
Christianity is responsible for genocide in south america thanks to the conquistadors believing they were doing the work of god.
Again, "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
Degree courses in theocratic subjects imply that the existance of a god is fact when quite evidently it is not proven.
Reigious degree is about as good a degree course as a degree in homeopathy,tea leaf reading or yogic fying.
Religion is a creation of man; ergo god is a creation of man.
Faith is nothing more than the blind acceptance and belief in that which cannot be proven.
Increasing numbers of people realise this and choose to question rather than accept. Society moves forwards.
(I used to teach to Blackburn college - believe me it is NOT a university, BA in Disney Studies degrees or not....)
studies which embrace religion/theology/ philosophy/ethics/in the context of history, civilisation and politics
ie "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
or " an easy cop-out to try to explain what we cannot understand"
why do people believe in religion?
Why do people not believe in religion?
Mother Theresa lost her faith for decades. She hid this from the world. Maybe many other religious leaders feel the same way but are too scared to "come out" for fear of vilification and exclusion from their club.
Why is "The God Delusion" a global best seller? Except of course in countries run by theocracies where it is banned; the ultimate aim of religion being to control the populace.
That failing, the aim being to maintain the lifestyles of those in charge and to profit from acting in exactly the opposite way to how it preaches.
(witness: annual report and accounts of the church commissioners)
if so, why are there billions of people in the world who believe in a god; they surely must find this a reality in their lives
Oh dear. What is reality? The reality of indoctrination? Or the reality of what is provable to exist?
Religious belief has absolutely NOTHING to do with reality.
The reality of belief has nothing to do with reality of existance.
There used to be billions of people who believed in different gods; many of these religions were destroyed by christianity.
Why should their belief systems be rubbished and christianity be the truth?
Christianity is responsible for genocide in south america thanks to the conquistadors believing they were doing the work of god.
Again, "who has the most powerful imaginary friend"
Degree courses in theocratic subjects imply that the existance of a god is fact when quite evidently it is not proven.
Reigious degree is about as good a degree course as a degree in homeopathy,tea leaf reading or yogic fying.
Religion is a creation of man; ergo god is a creation of man.
Faith is nothing more than the blind acceptance and belief in that which cannot be proven.
Increasing numbers of people realise this and choose to question rather than accept. Society moves forwards.
(I used to teach to Blackburn college - believe me it is NOT a university, BA in Disney Studies degrees or not....)
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 3:45pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Dear Anon,
I don't think anything would be gained by questioning a Religious Doctrine. It is a Matter of Accepting it or Rejecting it.
There would be nothing to be gained from questioning a teacher in whose integrity and validity the student had no Faith.
Mankind, Atheists and Theists need to pose this question to themselves -
[bold]What is the Purpose of my Human Life ?[/bold] It is a personal question. Most People, I am sure in fact, [italic]Every Person[/italic] has posed this question to themselves at some point in their Life. Probably for the first time when they were quite young.
To attain Immortality before Death comes was the answer I found.
I can't see the point of Atheism any more than Religion. God AND no-God are [bold]both[/bold] inventions of Man.
In my opinion, they are [bold]both[/bold] a distraction to the attainment of Immortality.
Why do you have an Existence? It's easy to attack Religion. A lot of Atheists like to do that. What is the answer to your question? Why do you continue to Exist?
Dear Anon,
I don't think anything would be gained by questioning a Religious Doctrine. It is a Matter of Accepting it or Rejecting it.
There would be nothing to be gained from questioning a teacher in whose integrity and validity the student had no Faith.
Mankind, Atheists and Theists need to pose this question to themselves -
What is the Purpose of my Human Life ? It is a personal question. Most People, I am sure in fact, Every Person has posed this question to themselves at some point in their Life. Probably for the first time when they were quite young.
To attain Immortality before Death comes was the answer I found.
I can't see the point of Atheism any more than Religion. God AND no-God are both inventions of Man.
In my opinion, they are both a distraction to the attainment of Immortality.
Why do you have an Existence? It's easy to attack Religion. A lot of Atheists like to do that. What is the answer to your question? Why do you continue to Exist?
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