Canon Michael Wedgeworth writes about the suicides in Bridgend.
Catching up with the Dean's Blog after a few days away (Yes, I know, I could have read it from abroad, but I had no access to a computer), I see that a teenager, Sophie Brooks, holds the record so far for the number of comments on one of these Lent pieces.
Congratulations Sophie. Your straight talking obviously struck a chord with readers.
I find myself wondering what you think about the dreadful spate of suicides among the teenagers of Bridgend in Wales, where the seventeenth such death was reported in the Lancashire Telegraph only yesterday.
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It looks as though the authorities, after denying for days that there is any link between them, are now wondering whether this very medium, the internet, has something to do with it.
I find it almost impossible to understand how, with everything to live for, these young people need to end it all in this way.
Is it depression, is it drugs, is it a cry for help?
Is it the media or websites somehow glamourising ways of ending life?
I just don't get it.
There was a time when the Church regarded suicide as a sin, and refused to bury victims in consecrated ground.
Now, there is much greater sensitivity to the mental, psychological and social context in which a person attempts suicide.
And it is an organization named after a character from a story in the Gospels, created by a man who was a vicar in Blackburn - the Samaritans - which does more than most to help people with suicidal tendencies.
However the Bridgend phenomenon is eventually explained, and however heartfelt the sympathy to those who have died, I can't help wondering whether there might be at least a degree of selfishness in what they have done.
All these youngsters were born to a mother who will have nurtured and cared for them.
Their parents and grandparents will no doubt have worried about them growing up in a sometimes difficult world.
There will have been a sharing of love and hope between them, and promise for the future.
But now it is all at an end. Families and friends are devastated, dreading what will come next.
Did those who have died, however depressed or unhappy they might have been, think of any of this, of their obligation to those who had loved them.
I honestly don't know the answer to my question. Perhaps teenagers reading this will have a better understanding than I.
Of course, during this season of Lent we are preparing to recall the death of another young man.
But this death was anything but selfish. This life was laid down for his friends.
Posted by: john michael, blackburn. on 10:26am Thu 21 Feb 08
[italic]italic[/italic] Michael,I feel that to use the word selfish about the young suicides is not, that helpful.We are all, each of us so complex.To know another person in depth at the emotional level is so difficult.I feel having been involved with the complexities of the young for a long time ther is a sort of illness of meaning which can develope into all sorts of thingslonliness,isol
ation,addiction,and maybe taking of one's own life. It's all so intense when you'r young. Real good friends but both young and older, and people around who will give positive srokes and steer away from the negative,are all part of the survival kit,I feel.
Michael,I feel that to use the word selfish about the young suicides is not, that helpful.We are all, each of us so complex.To know another person in depth at the emotional level is so difficult.I feel having been involved with the complexities of the young for a long time ther is a sort of illness of meaning which can develope into all sorts of thingslonliness,isol
ation,addiction,and maybe taking of one's own life. It's all so intense when you'r young. Real good friends but both young and older, and people around who will give positive srokes and steer away from the negative,are all part of the survival kit,I feel.
Posted by: Joseph Yossarian, London on 1:23pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Attempted suicide is often the result of clinical depression.
Clinical depression is a medical condition best treated by qualified medical doctors with proven medications.
Not doctors of theology.
Attempted suicide is often the result of clinical depression.
Clinical depression is a medical condition best treated by qualified medical doctors with proven medications.
Posted by: James Cronshaw, Burnley on 2:26pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Is it not true that some People are more appreciated after they have gone than they were when they were here. Sometimes a persons exit awakens more Love than a persons entrance.
We do not cease to exist because we are no longer here. There was a time when these People were not here, and nobody was missing them. We can still Love them.
We ALL came from not being here and return to not being here. Our existence is bigger than that, our existence is bigger than just being here.
There are many realms in the Mansion of Existence.
Is it not true that some People are more appreciated after they have gone than they were when they were here. Sometimes a persons exit awakens more Love than a persons entrance.
We do not cease to exist because we are no longer here. There was a time when these People were not here, and nobody was missing them. We can still Love them.
We ALL came from not being here and return to not being here. Our existence is bigger than that, our existence is bigger than just being here.
There are many realms in the Mansion of Existence.
Posted by: Simplysimon, Burnley on 3:05pm Thu 21 Feb 08
I think it is a very, very, unfair thing to say this is a selfish act. It is a sad time for the relatives.
Please do not pour blame on a suicidee. And please do not exploit them for self serving doctrinal point scoring. That is Selfish.
I think it is a very, very, unfair thing to say this is a selfish act. It is a sad time for the relatives.
Please do not pour blame on a suicidee. And please do not exploit them for self serving doctrinal point scoring. That is Selfish.
Do you not think there might be a difference between suicide and sacrifice? Could suicide be about needing to avoid something, whereas sacrifice is about encountering things head on?
(And please, I make no value judgement about avoidance.)
Do you not think there might be a difference between suicide and sacrifice? Could suicide be about needing to avoid something, whereas sacrifice is about encountering things head on?
(And please, I make no value judgement about avoidance.)
Posted by: john michael, blackburn on 10:28am Fri 22 Feb 08
I feel doctors of psychiatry and doctors of theology make good bedfellows. In fact I know one who is both.To seperate the medical from the spiritual is not that cool or sensible today.You can be sure that most of those troubled young people who died were registered with doctors but probably missed out on a spiritual director.Doctors of theology often influence the word more than people might know.
I feel doctors of psychiatry and doctors of theology make good bedfellows. In fact I know one who is both.To seperate the medical from the spiritual is not that cool or sensible today.You can be sure that most of those troubled young people who died were registered with doctors but probably missed out on a spiritual director.Doctors of theology often influence the word more than people might know.
Posted by: Simplysimon, Burnley on 11:38am Fri 22 Feb 08
Jesus was and is Immortal. He knew he was Immortal. So where is the sacrifice in Death. Everyone has a birth and a death, nobody can avoid making an exit one they have made an entrance. This is the nature of this physical world. If you are given a birth, there has to be a death. Day follows night, good is twined with bad, summer works with winter. This is the nature of the world.
Sacrifice is not about death. Death is just a consequence of birth. Sacrifice is any offering that comes from the Heart. Not the object, the action itself.
Jesus was and is Immortal. He knew he was Immortal. So where is the sacrifice in Death. Everyone has a birth and a death, nobody can avoid making an exit one they have made an entrance. This is the nature of this physical world. If you are given a birth, there has to be a death. Day follows night, good is twined with bad, summer works with winter. This is the nature of the world.
Sacrifice is not about death. Death is just a consequence of birth. Sacrifice is any offering that comes from the Heart. Not the object, the action itself.
Posted by: Neil Caton, Hoghton, Lancashire on 7:26pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I agree that they're actions are difficult to understand and indeed if they are related this causes confusion as to why they chose to end their lives this way and for what reasons they could possibly do this. As it is impossible to talk someone into having clinical depression, often the cause of suicide. However we cannot underestimate the human instinct to survive and to live and if these teenagers have somehow lost sight of this instinct they can only been seen as victims.
I agree that they're actions are difficult to understand and indeed if they are related this causes confusion as to why they chose to end their lives this way and for what reasons they could possibly do this. As it is impossible to talk someone into having clinical depression, often the cause of suicide. However we cannot underestimate the human instinct to survive and to live and if these teenagers have somehow lost sight of this instinct they can only been seen as victims.
Posted by: Simplysimon, Burnley on 12:11pm Sat 23 Feb 08
Hi Neil,
I agree. All of us are victims of mis-conceptions, mis-interpretations and mis-understandings. Teenagers are often encountering and grappling with the confusions and anbiguities of an adult world for the first time. Trying to find the sense of this confused world is not an easy task.
Young People want to Thrive, not just survive. The world around them undermines that need to Thrive. It tries to erode the natural tendencies to bloom and flourish and substitute it with the pre-arranged adult plan of conformity. Society is esier for leaders to manage if everyone thinks and behaves the same way. Teenagers want to Discover their own sense of Uniqueness. It challenges the perceived routine order of things.
Teenagers want to Thrive, not just survive. Adults tend to settle for routine. Then they become the prisoners of their routine way of thinking, feeling, behaving.
People don't get old, they just give up dreaming of Freedom. Teenagers are not young, they just dream and dream and dream.
Hi Neil,
I agree. All of us are victims of mis-conceptions, mis-interpretations and mis-understandings. Teenagers are often encountering and grappling with the confusions and anbiguities of an adult world for the first time. Trying to find the sense of this confused world is not an easy task.
Young People want to Thrive, not just survive. The world around them undermines that need to Thrive. It tries to erode the natural tendencies to bloom and flourish and substitute it with the pre-arranged adult plan of conformity. Society is esier for leaders to manage if everyone thinks and behaves the same way. Teenagers want to Discover their own sense of Uniqueness. It challenges the perceived routine order of things.
Teenagers want to Thrive, not just survive. Adults tend to settle for routine. Then they become the prisoners of their routine way of thinking, feeling, behaving.
People don't get old, they just give up dreaming of Freedom. Teenagers are not young, they just dream and dream and dream.
Posted by: Michael Wedgeworth, Blackburn on 9:12am Sun 24 Feb 08
Thank you, one and all, for some very interesting reactions. I won't be tedious and try to defend myself beyond saying that I acknowledged that the reasons for suicide are complex, but in the case of the Bridgend youngsters there could be, amongst it all, an element of selfishness in their actions.
Two other things I must say: John Michael- I totally accept that your knowledge and experience of those living 'on the edge'are far greater than mine.It is highly significant that your motivation to do it springs from faith.
And Simply Simon- I'm sure that the death of Jesus was not suicide. He didn't want to die (He prayed,'Let this cup pass from me'), but he knew his death was inevitable, because of the alliance between the religious and political leaders his words and actions had so upset, and also because he knew his death would bring life to others.
Thank you, one and all, for some very interesting reactions. I won't be tedious and try to defend myself beyond saying that I acknowledged that the reasons for suicide are complex, but in the case of the Bridgend youngsters there could be, amongst it all, an element of selfishness in their actions.
Two other things I must say: John Michael- I totally accept that your knowledge and experience of those living 'on the edge'are far greater than mine.It is highly significant that your motivation to do it springs from faith.
And Simply Simon- I'm sure that the death of Jesus was not suicide. He didn't want to die (He prayed,'Let this cup pass from me'), but he knew his death was inevitable, because of the alliance between the religious and political leaders his words and actions had so upset, and also because he knew his death would bring life to others.
Posted by: Simplysimon, Burnley on 12:29pm Sun 24 Feb 08
Dear Michael,
I am not saying it was suicide in the ordinary sense. I don't think his death was inevitable. He saw it coming and a man that could turn water into wine, restore the sight of the blind and raise the dead could surely have got off with an ASBO should he have chosen it.
There is a lot of mythology and rumour regarding the Life of Jesus. A lot of collusion between Politicians and Religious leaders even to this present day.
Jesus was and is Immortal. Any notions that he ever saw death is just a bad rumour. He lived every day of his Life awakening People to the Beautiful Reality of Being Alive!
He showed People that Life is not the subject of birth and death. That birth and death are two consequences of having been given the gift of existence.
What has been given existence today will exist forever. It's the Life, the existence that contains the meaning, birth and death are mere events. It's Life that means everything.
When we attach more meaning to the events that are happening in our existence, than we do to our actual existence itself. That is when we usher in confusion. We cannot fix the darkness with a mountain of remedies.
When we walk into a dark room, we don't begin by shovelling out the darkness, we don't try to find a formulae for the darkness.
We simply let in the light and the darkness vanishes, leaving no trace that it ever existed.
When we can Treasure the Clarity, the Understanding, the Joy of Being, the darkness vanishes! We all have this Treasure within us.
Dear Michael,
I am not saying it was suicide in the ordinary sense. I don't think his death was inevitable. He saw it coming and a man that could turn water into wine, restore the sight of the blind and raise the dead could surely have got off with an ASBO should he have chosen it.
There is a lot of mythology and rumour regarding the Life of Jesus. A lot of collusion between Politicians and Religious leaders even to this present day.
Jesus was and is Immortal. Any notions that he ever saw death is just a bad rumour. He lived every day of his Life awakening People to the Beautiful Reality of Being Alive!
He showed People that Life is not the subject of birth and death. That birth and death are two consequences of having been given the gift of existence.
What has been given existence today will exist forever. It's the Life, the existence that contains the meaning, birth and death are mere events. It's Life that means everything.
When we attach more meaning to the events that are happening in our existence, than we do to our actual existence itself. That is when we usher in confusion. We cannot fix the darkness with a mountain of remedies.
When we walk into a dark room, we don't begin by shovelling out the darkness, we don't try to find a formulae for the darkness.
We simply let in the light and the darkness vanishes, leaving no trace that it ever existed.
When we can Treasure the Clarity, the Understanding, the Joy of Being, the darkness vanishes! We all have this Treasure within us.
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