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thank you for again boldly stating the truth

Truer words were rarely spoken.

Absoloutly spot on...cant believe how right he is..

Criticising the behaviour of others has to be an english national pastime. It is practicaly a Religion in itself. Liberty is only God-given if you believe in the Doctrine of a religion. Understanding the feelings of others and respecting them is a Heart-felt Freedom that does not require any Doctrine. A Good Samaritan can be an Atheist. Understanding is much harder to legislate for or against. It doesn't manifest in a Doctrine nor will it ever be the subject of a Dogma. Understanding, not criticism is acceptable by God. Understanding will always be of more benefit than criticism. [bold]Understanding[/bold] is Divinities Presence within the Human Condition. It has no contract with legislation.

If Christianity has become about upholding the Freedom to criticise. [bold]No wonder it's in peril.[/bold] What People do in private has nothing to do with Religion. A Persons Sexuality has nothing to do with anyone other than the Individual themselves. Religion has no more right to interfere or judge a Person for their private sexual preferences than it has the right to interfere with what People think about God.

Aaah but SS,religion is so flexible even the bible,s teaching can become elastic and you can bend the meanings to suit your environment,that is if you have a mind too and it does look like we have a mind to,but it does state quiet clearly in the Bible that sex between persons of the same sex is a deff no,no,but there you go, we aint bothered over that are we,it simply does not fit in todays thinking so out it goes,you tell it how it is Rev..lol

Even if it says it is a no-no in the beano. It still does not make it the business of any other Person. Why are Christians fixated with the sexual practices of other People ?

Hi Nosty, Even if it says it's a no-no in the Beano. It still has nothing to do with a Christian or any other Person what two People choose to do in private. [bold]Why are Christians so fixated with the sex life choices of other People?[/bold]

As far as the Message of Jesus is concerned, the Bible has to be His Biggest Enemy. People use it to justify their own prejudice, Legitimising their criticism and authority for the passing of corrupt judgements on others. If Jesus wanted a donkey the Disciples would make sure He had the very best Donkey that they could afford. If Jesus had wanted a wh*re I am sure they would have paid for the Filthiest who*re In Town! Devotion and Criticism are not the same thing. Devotion requires Courage. Any wimp can judge and criticise.

He will be telling us there is no such thing as a Gay Samaritan next.

Its a modern day sodom and Gamora! says the guy from the hell fire crew,and ya know what i am beginning to think he is right,morals are as low as that biblical time and the clergy then condoned it ah they more or less do now and were scared to take a conflicting stance to the orgies, men sleeping with men,women sleeping with women,children being abused not much different is it Si?,,but i had best leave it there as i dont want to get you over excited..lol,,But remember what god did then,,best leave it if i was you.

Hi Nosty, The worst of Man has always been the worst of Man. The Best of Man is within Man and the worst is within Man. The Sacred and the Evil are both within. The Ugly and the Beautiful are both within. The matter has already been decided. Man has a choice. Man may determine that which is Sacred within himself. He may look for the Sacred and if He does, He will find the Sacred. He will Cherish the Sacred. It isn't for a Book to determine who or what is Sacred and who or what is not Sacred. It is a Matter for a Man to determine. He cannot separate the good from the bad in the world around him. He cannot separate summer from winter. The Truth is within. He can separate the Truth from the Falsehood within. The work is within. Man will evolve according to that which He Cherishes as Sacred. The Problem with the clergy these days is that they are uncertain of what is Sacred and what isn't. They are using a Book to legitimise their own preffered version and interpretation. That which is [bold]Truly[/bold] Divine does not need any Book to validate its credibility. It is the Messsage of God that makes a Jesus. Jesus did not interpret the Message. He didn't come to interpret the message of the Old Bible any more than the New Bible.

Jesus did not make the Message. Your Heart is [bold]itself[/bold] the Message. At that time, He was the Living Reflection of Your Heart.

Jesus did not interpret the Message. He didn't come to interpret the message of the Old Bible any more than the New Bible.......... Hi James,OK then if what you believe has no bearing what so ever on the Bible,what in your oppinion did Jesus come earth on to do?

[bold]Jesus came to awaken the Heart.[/bold]

Whilst the House of Lords decision is welcome, this should in mo way be confused with the Rev's clearly "fundamentalist" opinions which are verging on the homophobic. The HoL decision is to be commended for the consideration of it's language. The danger is that the Rev and other intolerant preachers will use this to spead homophobia, to make teenagers who are discovering their sexuality feel guilty about themselves, to ostracise homosexuals from the Christian church....and so on. Gay people are just as capable of beleiving in god as heterosexual people and should have exactly the same rights and consideration in society. This is clearly not what the Rev thinks, as is evidenced by his prior blog comments regurgitated painfully below: [italic] “Without the full commitment of public marriage, sex is dishonest”[/italic] Does the rev want another bill, banning sex altogether? [italic]But this week we took a massive lurch away from yet another part of our faith heritage when the Lords backed gays, even as thousands of the Christians and Muslims protested outside Parliament for their reasonable beliefs.A minority of Anglicans call for the acceptance of loving, long-term same-sex relationships. Another minority (my minority) campaign against, saying that the basis for Christianity - the Bible - speaks lovingly and firmly for sex within marriage and abstinence outside. The large majority in the middle - both in Church and State - swing between a dislike of gay practice and the more liberal 'live and let love'.[/italic] Yes, we saw the placards, the chants. You say reasonable belief, I say homophobic bigotry. [italic]MUST be difficult being God. Those he's made think he's wrong, especially regarding sex, as we've noted recently. Why only Adam and Eve? Why not Adam and Steve? So politically incorrect. Worse! Time and again, he inspired his biblical spokesmen to condemn homosexuality. Most unforgivable, he stepped into history in [bold]Jesus and still failed to set the gay record straight. Not a hint.[/bold] Reams on men, women and marriage. Not a peep on gays. Is God homophobic? Or, is it that a loving Creator of men, women and sex is gently guiding us his way? Go forth and multiply! ran his delightful commandment. Difficult for an Adam and Steve. Then, there's the Lego test. Designers usually intend their creations to fit into each other with reasonable ease. Next, the society test. Populating planets becomes difficult when your people producers go on strike This week's mammoth Manchester Mardi Gras illustrates the recent gay explosion, and I don't believe it's all from the closet. Gay friends insist sex preferences are fixed at birth. The evidence contradicts. Sex drives come in all speeds. Some race with F1 fury in definite directions. Then, there are the meanders. Others, especially at puberty, idle in the pits, wondering which way to go round. Gay signposts tempt. Past civilisations also prove that we're open to persuasion. The man/woman thing ran a poor third to man/man and man/boy a classic cause for decline and fall, say some. Maybe, God, our hate-sin/love-the-si nner deity, knows what's what when it comes to sex.[/italic] Unevidenced bigoted NONSENSE!

Not that long ago on Blackpool seafront we used to see signs in the front windows of boarding houses saying "no coloureds" So today we now (according to the Rev) can have the equally bigoted and intolerant members of society who can now put up signs in their windows saying "no gays" It's just the same sort of backwards nonsense really.

People will do what People will do. Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve, Adam and Cattle/Camels/Chicke ns. There is even an Adam and blow up vinyl. Women have been having sex with cucumbers for years. (I didn't know vegetables had a veg-ina.)And when they are not perched on the washing machine many Women will happily abuse the 'Rabbit' for hours on end in the comfort of their own Home. Well You have to admit it beats all-weather press-ups in the Cucumber patch. Creation is a [italic]very[/italic] Diverse Multiplicity. No Holds barred except one.

[quote][bold]Nostradamos[/bold] wrote: Jesus did not interpret the Message. He didn\'t come to interpret the message of the Old Bible any more than the New Bible.......... Hi James,OK then if what you believe has no bearing what so ever on the Bible,what in your oppinion did Jesus come earth on to do?[/quote] Hi James if you dont mind me asking,but were did you get that information from?

James this is the statement that i would ask were did you get the following information from,,,Quote SS,"Jesus came to awaken the Heart".

[italic]Whilst we are, therefore, strongly committed to demonstrating God's love for all people, including lesbians, gays and bisexuals, [italic]this must not prevent us from being free to express bible-based objections to same-sex sexual practice[/italic] .[/italic] This is exactly the same principle as was used by the apartheid regime to justify its own existance. Bible-based principles of why white is "more godly" than black, bible based principles to justify a way of life singling out people for negative treatment for no reason other than their skin. [quote]Bible-based objections to same-sex sexual practice[/quote] is just yet another discriminatory practice to justify singling people out and potentially vilifying them for no reason other than their sexual orientation. [bold]This is nothing short of the same level despicable discrimination and yet more influence of the divisive influence of fundamental christianity upon society.[/bold]

Dear Nosty, That's a big question for an Atheist of a wednesday morning. Ok. Jesus came to awaken the Seed of the Eternal within a Man. Like rain awakens the seeds of the desert. In this Realm, The Creation is seen, not it's Creator. [bold]The Eternal Creator[/bold] is be-clouded by the clouds of visible appearances, dis-appearances and re-appearances. In the Dream of Mankind the appearances around Man are deemed to be Awake, Alive, Reality. Whilst The Infinite Reality and the True Knowledge of the Eternal One is deemed to be asleep, non-existent or imaginary. Jesus came to awaken the Presence of the Eternal. He came to awaken the Presence of the Eternal Divinity within Man. Whilst Man Lives in this transient dream-field of visible appearances. Jesus came to [italic]Reveal[/italic] the Eternal [bold]Consciousness[/bold] of Man. It was the Direct Practical Knowledge of the Eternal He [italic]Revealed.[/italic] Not the Information. Not a definition. Not an explanation. There were those who Understood. There were those who did not Understand.

Dear Joseph. Religious rules and dogma has done nothing but eroded Understanding and divided Humanity. Vilifying those who do not conform is the weapon of division and dis-harmony. [bold]Not every[/bold] Religious Man uses the weapon. Even atheists can be cruel. However, regardless of their worldly station and reputation, there are always those People who remain Sincere in their Devotion. They adhere to their Quest to [italic]simply Know[/italic] the Truth. No matter what.

I suppose our good vicar has a right to speak his mind, just as we all do. Good to now that modern, freedom of speech practices can also benefit holders of ridiculous out dated beliefs, as well as the more learned of the population population.

[bold]Real[/bold] Belief brings [bold]Real[/bold] Relief!

[quote][bold]simplysimon[/bold] wrote: Dear Nosty, That\'s a big question for an Atheist of a wednesday morning. Ok. Jesus came to awaken the Seed of the Eternal within a Man. Like rain awakens the seeds of the desert. In this Realm, The Creation is seen, not it\'s Creator. [bold]The Eternal Creator[/bold] is be-clouded by the clouds of visible appearances, dis-appearances and re-appearances. In the Dream of Mankind the appearances around Man are deemed to be Awake, Alive, Reality. Whilst The Infinite Reality and the True Knowledge of the Eternal One is deemed to be asleep, non-existent or imaginary. Jesus came to awaken the Presence of the Eternal. He came to awaken the Presence of the Eternal Divinity within Man. Whilst Man Lives in this transient dream-field of visible appearances. Jesus came to [italic]Reveal[/italic] the Eternal [bold]Consciousness[/bold] of Man. It was the Direct Practical Knowledge of the Eternal He [italic]Revealed.[/italic] Not the Information. Not a definition. Not an explanation. There were those who Understood. There were those who did not Understand.[/quote] Would i be right James in thinking that as jesus was a biblical figure that you gleamed this eternal thinking from the bible due to the words that Jesus spoke ?

Hi Nosty, I was born knowing. Jesus was a Mirror to those that encountered him. Man has eyes in his head. He can see the Sun, the Moon, the Stars. He can see many distant things. But without a Mirror he cannot see his own face. He cannot [italic][bold]see[/bold][/italic] his own Identity. Jesus was a Perfect Reflection [italic]for[/italic] the Eternal. When the Eternal saw Jesus it could see [italic][bold]itself[/bold][/italic] clearly in the Heart of Man. The Real work of Jesus was to polish the Mirror. To make sure there were no stains on the Mirror that could distort the Perfection of the Eternal. The Moment People saw Jesus they could see the Eternal Identity within their own Being. No word is needed to describe who you see when you look into a Mirror. What is Revealed is Revealed without a word. The Original Word is Word-less. It cannot be spoken or written. "In the beginning was the Word." The Alphabets were not existing at the beginning of Creation. Only The Eternal was there. The Encounter with the Eternal is beyond any alphabet that has been made. It cannot even be described. No explanation was made to describe it. It can only be [bold]Encountered.[/bold] The Eternal only becomes visible if you look into the Mirror of the Eternal. Otherwise it cannot even be seen with these two Human eyes.

OK James but you have surprised me by useing a quotation from the bible,as you seem to play down the value of the bible..(Beano).but it deff does have a part to play in your thinking. I wondered why i could never completly grasp your beliefs,because it seems that you were born with an enlightenment that not all people have and therefore not many will be able to follow your very strongly worded statements and i can see that you are a true believer in the eternal..at last i think i see a little clearer myself now,

Hi Nosty, I don't really play down the value of the Bible. There is some [italic]indications[/italic] of Truth in the Bible as there is with other Religious Teachings. It is the 'attachment' to Religion that I undermine. Man is designed to be One with the Eternal. He is created to [bold]Know[/bold] The Eternal Anything less is Falsehood. Ambiguity is not acceptable. Doubt leads to confusion and error. There can be no room for doubt. Doubt is the enemy of Knowledge. Religious indications are only [italic]hints[/italic] about the Truth. These books could contain 99.99% Truth, but without that 0.01% it is not the Complete Truth. Words are indications. The word 'water' is not the water that will quench the actual thirst. Man cannot smell the fragrance of the Rose from the 'word ' R-O-S-E. The 'word' has no resemblance to the actual flower. A book is not the Mirror of the Eternal. It may be 'about' a lot of good things. But it is not the Perfect Mirror. When Man looks into a Mirror he does not see yesterdays image. There is no trace of yesterday in the image. There is no trace of tomorrow in the image. What Man sees is the Living Image of the Eternal Moment when he looks into [italic]that[/italic] Mirror. One Mirror is Perfect. There are many Suns in the sky, but only one of them is your sun. The sun [italic]you[/italic] need. When the Living People encountered the Living Jesus, they could [bold]see[/bold] the Living Eternal. Even the Blind and the Deaf could recognise the Eternal in the Presence of Jesus. Just his Living Presence was enough. Jesus came to show the Living Eternal to the Living People. Nobody could Believe it. But they [italic]could[/italic] see it. Every Person is born with the Eternal within them. There are no exceptions. You Know, you can recognise, your own face [italic]when[/italic] you see it. The Eternal Mirror has always been Present on Earth. And the Moment you see it, you [bold]realise[/bold] you have always known it. The name, the time, the places may change, but the [italic]effectivness[/italic] of that Mirror has been shining [bold]Forever.[/bold]

I cannot allow Perfection to be limited by the constraints of any Religion. Even I have my Integrity to consider.

[bold]Nobody needs to abandon their Religion.[/bold] A [italic]Mirror[/italic] does not distinguish between a believer and a non-believer. Your Heart has it's own Mirror.

And the [italic]really[/italic] good news is this - that [bold]everyone[/bold] gets to keep their Sense of Humour. :)

Knowledge is always the most Beautiful thing. It doesn't matter how big the adventure or how noble or mistaken the cause or how far we have travelled or what has happened or been done or left un-done or spoken or un-said. No matter what. No matter how lost. The Perfect Guide is the one that can always Return you to [italic]your[/italic] Perfection. To [bold]Your[/bold] Perfect Home.

Bit like Christianity James really, do you not think so?anyhow thanks for your explanation of your beliefs,very informative and very enlightening..

Bit like Christianity ? I don't think so Nosty. Christianity is not what Jesus came to do. Christianity is an Institution built by Man. Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus. It is Man that has [italic]stamped[/italic] Christianity on Jesus. Jesus did not come to establish another Religion. Once He had left this world anyone could say and do anything they wanted in the name of Christ. Often mis-leading People and instructing them on what was acceptable theories to believe in and what was not. Jesus did not present theories. Jesus presented himself as an actuality. People met Him, they could ask him to explain something they did not Understand in [italic]Actuality[/italic] There were no middle-men required. People could talk with Him and listen to Him. They could look at Him. Spend time with Him. Get things like vague notions and ambiguities cleared up without the need of another person, without the need of a manual, without the need of an Institution. Jesus did not need an Institution to back His Knowledge up. That is why He was considered to be the enemy of the Institution. He rocked their little self-serving boat of what suited them and they didn't like that. People choose what they want to Believe. Ithas nothing to do with the Truth. The Truth is not an option that is subject to a choice. In this world People have come to believe that their Religion is the True Religion because it is what they have chosen. When Jesus said -"the Kingdom of Heaven is within you" The Religion of the day was saying that the Kingdom of Heaven would be found after you were Dead. So what has changed Nosty ? Those who found Jesus found the Kingdom of Heaven whilst they were still Alive. They said "please [italic]show[/italic] me." Those were the ones who did not want to take a chance and wait until they were Dead. The rest took a chance that after they were Dead, then they would find it. If a Man wants to take that chance he can take that chance. He is Free to take a chance with his Life if he wants to. There is no compulsion. Nobody is ever forced into finding Heaven. There is no forcing or coersion. In this world there are many Mirrors that reflect many things. But only one of them has the Clarity to Reveal That True Eternal Identity. No Religion on the face of this Earth can do that. If Religion was able to do that, then there would never have been a need for a Living Jesus. A Living Perfect Mirror. Just The Old Religion would have been enough. My Knowledge is not based on Belief. Belief and non-Belief are both [bold]optional choices[/bold] a person can make for themselves. A person chooses to believe in a 'version' of truth that suits him/her. The Living Mirror of TRUTH is [italic]so obvious[/italic] that no Belief option 'version' is ever going to be deemed to be necessary. No Religion has been created by God. All Religion is a product of Man. Those who look into their Heart will see The Eternal Reality. They will not see Religion.

There are those with the Courage to 'look' and 'listen' to their Heart. And if their Courage is Real they will find. They will Understand. If they seek, they will find. Otherwise they can take their chances.

[bold]And wait until Death seizes them.[/bold] I have no way of knowing what happens after that. If Religion was an Honest Institution it would openly declare the same thing.

The Mirror can only be of benefit to those People, [italic]whether Religious or non Religious,[/italic] who feel ready to look into it. Today is always going to be the Most Perfect Day! Here, this is the [italic]only[/italic] Moment you have.

Dear Nosty, I just want to make a [italic]small[/italic] correction to an assumption you make in one of your posts. I am not a Believer in The Eternal - I am Eternal. An Immortal is [bold]attached[/bold] to the Eternal like a ray of light remains attached to the sun. It's just a small point but belief/non-belief are the limits of Mortals. The Knowledge I have is not subject to [italic]any[/italic] constraints.

[quote][bold]simplysimon[/bold] wrote: [bold]And wait until Death seizes them.[/bold] I have no way of knowing what happens after that. If Religion was an Honest Institution it would openly declare the same thing. [/quote] James the bible does mention "asleep in death" i take that as awaiting ressurection from sleep,but back to life on paradise earth,as you say i could be wrong but my spirit does tell me that the truth is in the bible,not sure that the c of e have the right method of going about there worship or in fact what or who they worship does make you think at times,i will just add that i do like your explanation though and i think i am getting there James.

When the Bible mentions 'asleep in death' it is referring to those People who only THINK they are Alive. Many People thought they were alive until they met Jesus. That was the Resurection from which they would never know death. The curtailment of the DREAM. Man has been born in a state of slumber, he has been born into a state of Dream. Which He [bold]calls[/bold] Life. In the Dream he [italic]thinks[/italic] he is Alive. He [italic]thinks[/italic] He is Awake. He [italic]thinks[/italic] He is Living. But it is ALL just a Dream. Only Life itself is Living. Only Life itself is not subject to birth and death and sleep. Life never sleeps. It is awake ETERNALY. It does not die. It is not born. Jesus came into the Dream and woke up the Disciples from their birth-death dream. That is what the Resurection means. Until the Moment of Resurection, Man is not Alive. He just Dreams that He is. Though I think this part is a lot for People to swallow.

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