THERE can't be a God with so much suffering around.
If he loves us and is all powerful then why doesn't he do a better job?
Only when I did a bit of creating myself did I find a hint of an answer to this age-old problem.
advertisement
I helped make a tiny babe in 1971, bringing him deliberately into this suffering world.
I could have saved him heartache by drugging him into compliance with the geriatric stuff used in old folks' homes.
Sure, he'd have been a zombie without free will but at least he would have been safe.
Revolting? Yet, was not that what I was demanding of God when I demanded he stop wars and killings; to turn us, the main causes of suffering, into obedient zombie robots?
First, he'd cancel democracy and rule himself. Secondly, he'd remove our riches and share them out across Africa. Thirdly
You, me and God are really quite alike. We prefer to give freedom and choice even though we know we're bringing people we love into a painful world.
We do it because there is no other way if we are to be free, democratic beings.
And, of course, God doesn't just sit there doing nothing. Certainly, he gets involved.
Didn't this super saving God swoop into this rotten world in his Son Jesus?
Odd isn't it? When he comes to save us from suffering, we kill him on a cross.
Thank God for the resurrection and the amazing fact that he still goes on loving us.
Posted by: N 'Man O' Rage' R, http://novemberromeo
.spaces.live.com on 5:16pm Mon 18 Feb 08
Can someone explain to me what, this oxygen thief is on about?
If I read this right, he wants to drug babies, introduce fascism and turn us into zombie robots?
And then, [bold]I[/bold] am the bad guy? Revvie Loonie is truly loopy.
Can someone explain to me what, this oxygen thief is on about?
If I read this right, he wants to drug babies, introduce fascism and turn us into zombie robots?
And then, I am the bad guy? Revvie Loonie is truly loopy.
Posted by: Ian the Beancounter, Darwen on 5:20pm Mon 18 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Only when I did a bit of creating myself did I find a hint of an answer to this age-old problem.[/[/bold] quote]
Sorry, Kevin, but the answer you alluded to has eluded me!!
Only when I did a bit of creating myself did I find a hint of an answer to this age-old problem.
Sorry, Kevin, but the answer you alluded to has eluded me!!
Posted by: Kevin Logan, Accrington on 11:31pm Mon 18 Feb 08
Come on, fellas. Relax.
Give yourselves a break and try reading it without your usual goggles on.
The sub-editor got it.
He allowed it in the paper.
Subs are very particular about allowing drivel in their columns. It makes them look bad in front of their chief sub.
I reprint the column in my church newsletter each Sunday. A hundred or so average churchgoers got it yesterday.
Sohave another go, lads, just to please me.
Hey, here's an idea.
If you can't manage it on your own, why not ask for outside help.
Say a prayer! Why not?
Anybody who calls me Revvie Loonie and an oxygen thief can surely crack this.
It ain't Sudoku.
Come on, fellas. Relax.
Give yourselves a break and try reading it without your usual goggles on.
The sub-editor got it.
He allowed it in the paper.
Subs are very particular about allowing drivel in their columns. It makes them look bad in front of their chief sub.
I reprint the column in my church newsletter each Sunday. A hundred or so average churchgoers got it yesterday.
Sohave another go, lads, just to please me.
Hey, here's an idea.
If you can't manage it on your own, why not ask for outside help.
Say a prayer! Why not?
Anybody who calls me Revvie Loonie and an oxygen thief can surely crack this.
It ain't Sudoku.
I'm ever delighted to see a Christian perspective in a secular newspaper. Keep up the good work, Father Kevin. God is sovereign and we are free, and somehow, the two work together and that is a miracle to be celebrated. [bold]bold[/bold]
I'm ever delighted to see a Christian perspective in a secular newspaper. Keep up the good work, Father Kevin. God is sovereign and we are free, and somehow, the two work together and that is a miracle to be celebrated.
Posted by: Ian the Beancounter, Darwen on 9:14am Tue 19 Feb 08
Kevin, I think I now understand where you're coming from on this, but you know my beliefs - I couldn't possible fully comprehend :-))
P.S. I don't think you're a "Revvie Looney" - just a grumpy old man - like me!!
Kevin, I think I now understand where you're coming from on this, but you know my beliefs - I couldn't possible fully comprehend :-))
P.S. I don't think you're a "Revvie Looney" - just a grumpy old man - like me!!
Posted by: Nostradamous, blackburn on 10:11am Tue 19 Feb 08
Hello again and you know what Kevin although i am sure that it wont make the slightest bit of difference to you , i really am starting to like you..lol
Doesnt N 'Man O' Rage' R make excellent reading i would love to have an i depth conversation with that person,he/she tends to miss the point more than i do.
Do you really believe this is a painfull world?i dont for one minute think it is painfull ya it does have its pitfalls but painfull no way,God gave us all free will in the garden of eden and from then on we have proceeded to make a complete mess of his creations,but God is not to blame for anything, man has created all his own problems and if the human race was a computor we would immediatly Defrag it..lol
I would suggest to anyone who is spiritually minded if they are looking for an answer to this issue they should take a lead from Job, now there was a guy who suffered some hardships and not once did he blame god for his situation, i would suggest we all took that view and stop turning God into a scapegoat for basically anything that goes wrong.so endeth the lesson..<laugh> sorry guys.
Hello again and you know what Kevin although i am sure that it wont make the slightest bit of difference to you , i really am starting to like you..lol
Doesnt N 'Man O' Rage' R make excellent reading i would love to have an i depth conversation with that person,he/she tends to miss the point more than i do.
Do you really believe this is a painfull world?i dont for one minute think it is painfull ya it does have its pitfalls but painfull no way,God gave us all free will in the garden of eden and from then on we have proceeded to make a complete mess of his creations,but God is not to blame for anything, man has created all his own problems and if the human race was a computor we would immediatly Defrag it..lol
I would suggest to anyone who is spiritually minded if they are looking for an answer to this issue they should take a lead from Job, now there was a guy who suffered some hardships and not once did he blame god for his situation, i would suggest we all took that view and stop turning God into a scapegoat for basically anything that goes wrong.so endeth the lesson..<laugh> sorry guys.
Posted by: marcus, London on 11:41am Tue 19 Feb 08
[quote]“If he loves us and is all powerful then why doesn't he do a better job?”[/quote]
Simple – because he is an imaginary friend. Funny, isn’t it; say you are hearing voices and you’ll get sectioned. Say that you have been spoken to by god and you are religious. I’m still trying to work out the difference between insanity, bi-polarism and religious devotion.
[quote]“I could have saved him heartache by drugging him into compliance with the geriatric stuff used in old folks' homes”[/quote]
“Compliance drugs” do not (as a generalisation) reduce heartache for those taking them. They make the people taking them easier to handle for their carers. Big difference.
This remark suggests ignorance of the science of pharmacology, which I’m sure is not really the case so can only assume it’s attempted rhetoric for the lesser educated who may look for god where they can’t find an explanation for something painful.
[quote]First, he'd cancel democracy and rule himself. Secondly, he'd remove our riches and share them out across Africa. Thirdly You, me and God are really quite alike.[/quote]
Inherent self-contradiction here, not for the first time. And there was I thinking from previous blogs that Rev K is all in favour of eye for an eye (and the world goes blind) stone-age farmers justice. Rule by the word of god or rule by democracy? Which do you want?
[quote]“We prefer to give freedom and choice even though we know we're bringing people we love into a painful world”[/quote]
Then again we are also bringing children in a world full of love for them and the daily happiness of the joy of life and the immense variety of experience of the world around us. The world is far more joyous than it is painful.
[quote]“When he comes to save us from suffering, we kill him on a cross”[/quote]
I’m afraid I share absolutely no responsibility with a bunch of Romans for a supposed incident of history which may or may not have happened.
Overall, a rather poor attempt to justify the existence of a powerful and benevolent all-seeing deity in an imperfect evolving and continually changing world where pain and suffering are an inevitable part of the fabric of life.
The book of Job proscribes death for blasphemy, by the way…but see the cathedral lent blog for more of the evils of god on that little story.
Actually, for the first time ever I find myself in agreement with Rev K (about the state of the CofE) in one of his prior comments.
I suspect that we have different reasons for lack of respect for the cofe hierarchy however……
The sub-editor lets through homophobia and incitement to violence, so he's hardly likely to stop this weeks entry.....
“If he loves us and is all powerful then why doesn't he do a better job?”
Simple – because he is an imaginary friend. Funny, isn’t it; say you are hearing voices and you’ll get sectioned. Say that you have been spoken to by god and you are religious. I’m still trying to work out the difference between insanity, bi-polarism and religious devotion.
“I could have saved him heartache by drugging him into compliance with the geriatric stuff used in old folks' homes”
“Compliance drugs” do not (as a generalisation) reduce heartache for those taking them. They make the people taking them easier to handle for their carers. Big difference.
This remark suggests ignorance of the science of pharmacology, which I’m sure is not really the case so can only assume it’s attempted rhetoric for the lesser educated who may look for god where they can’t find an explanation for something painful.
First, he'd cancel democracy and rule himself. Secondly, he'd remove our riches and share them out across Africa. Thirdly You, me and God are really quite alike.
Inherent self-contradiction here, not for the first time. And there was I thinking from previous blogs that Rev K is all in favour of eye for an eye (and the world goes blind) stone-age farmers justice. Rule by the word of god or rule by democracy? Which do you want?
“We prefer to give freedom and choice even though we know we're bringing people we love into a painful world”
Then again we are also bringing children in a world full of love for them and the daily happiness of the joy of life and the immense variety of experience of the world around us. The world is far more joyous than it is painful.
“When he comes to save us from suffering, we kill him on a cross”
I’m afraid I share absolutely no responsibility with a bunch of Romans for a supposed incident of history which may or may not have happened.
Overall, a rather poor attempt to justify the existence of a powerful and benevolent all-seeing deity in an imperfect evolving and continually changing world where pain and suffering are an inevitable part of the fabric of life.
The book of Job proscribes death for blasphemy, by the way…but see the cathedral lent blog for more of the evils of god on that little story.
Actually, for the first time ever I find myself in agreement with Rev K (about the state of the CofE) in one of his prior comments.
I suspect that we have different reasons for lack of respect for the cofe hierarchy however……
The sub-editor lets through homophobia and incitement to violence, so he's hardly likely to stop this weeks entry.....
Posted by: Nostradamous, Blackburn on 12:39pm Tue 19 Feb 08
The book of Job proscribes death for blasphemy
--------------------
--------------------
--
Marcus i have read with interest some of your comments,but i did say that only the spiritually minded read the book of Job,because i do realise it can be quite confusing if you are a none believer,take from the book whatever you have too that is what it is there for, but for me it does show a man being a very faithfull servant of god even after so many secular heartaches and illnesses.
The book of Job proscribes death for blasphemy
--------------------
--------------------
--
Marcus i have read with interest some of your comments,but i did say that only the spiritually minded read the book of Job,because i do realise it can be quite confusing if you are a none believer,take from the book whatever you have too that is what it is there for, but for me it does show a man being a very faithfull servant of god even after so many secular heartaches and illnesses.
Posted by: James Cronshaw, Burnley on 3:53pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Jesus did not suffer on the cross. Why do Christians drag suffering into this story.
Jesus did not suffer. He may have been having a bad day, His circumstances may have been less than desirable, but there was no suffering.
People fixate on this crucifiction, they focus on suffering. Jesus had a different experience, he was a Master of his own experience. He was not the subject of circumstance.
Jesus had conquered Human suffering.
Jesus did not suffer on the cross. Why do Christians drag suffering into this story.
Jesus did not suffer. He may have been having a bad day, His circumstances may have been less than desirable, but there was no suffering.
People fixate on this crucifiction, they focus on suffering. Jesus had a different experience, he was a Master of his own experience. He was not the subject of circumstance.
Posted by: Kevin Logan, Accrington on 3:37pm Wed 20 Feb 08
Hi Marcus.
I thought I'd lost you.
It's such a long time since you contributed that I was tempted to say a prayer for your safe return.
I missed being dissected, analysed, gainsaid, contradicted and told how truly, madly and deeply wrong I really was.
It was good for the soul.
You're a fine inspiration, Marcus, especially when I practice what I preach and fall far short of perfection.
It's such a comfort to realise that my friend, Marcus, will be there to put me, and the readers right, when I go astray on the occasional fact.
Anyway, back to this temptation to pray for you...
'No,' I thought, 'that wouldn't be fair praying for such an avowed and and dedicated atheist. After all, he's only got himself and his own human intellect to support him.
It really would be unfair of me to resort to calling in supernatural help.
So, Marcus, you know what I did...?
I prayed for you anyway.
I know, if you can't trust the clergy who can you trust?
Nice to have you back where you belong, my friend.
Hi Marcus.
I thought I'd lost you.
It's such a long time since you contributed that I was tempted to say a prayer for your safe return.
I missed being dissected, analysed, gainsaid, contradicted and told how truly, madly and deeply wrong I really was.
It was good for the soul.
You're a fine inspiration, Marcus, especially when I practice what I preach and fall far short of perfection.
It's such a comfort to realise that my friend, Marcus, will be there to put me, and the readers right, when I go astray on the occasional fact.
Anyway, back to this temptation to pray for you...
'No,' I thought, 'that wouldn't be fair praying for such an avowed and and dedicated atheist. After all, he's only got himself and his own human intellect to support him.
It really would be unfair of me to resort to calling in supernatural help.
So, Marcus, you know what I did...?
I prayed for you anyway.
I know, if you can't trust the clergy who can you trust?
Nice to have you back where you belong, my friend.
[quote][bold]Kevin Logan[/bold] wrote:
Hi Marcus. I thought I'd lost you. It's such a long time since you contributed that I was tempted to say a prayer for your safe return. I missed being dissected, analysed, gainsaid, contradicted and told how truly, madly and deeply wrong I really was. It was good for the soul. You're a fine inspiration, Marcus, especially when I practice what I preach and fall far short of perfection. It's such a comfort to realise that my friend, Marcus, will be there to put me, and the readers right, when I go astray on the occasional fact. Anyway, back to this temptation to pray for you... 'No,' I thought, 'that wouldn't be fair praying for such an avowed and and dedicated atheist. After all, he's only got himself and his own human intellect to support him. It really would be unfair of me to resort to calling in supernatural help. So, Marcus, you know what I did...? I prayed for you anyway. I know, if you can't trust the clergy who can you trust? Nice to have you back where you belong, my friend. [/quote] very kind of you I'm sure, I hope it will make you feel good.
Makes no difference to me. . . . . but rest assured I may offer a but of analysis on future contributions.
Kevin Logan wrote:
Hi Marcus. I thought I'd lost you. It's such a long time since you contributed that I was tempted to say a prayer for your safe return. I missed being dissected, analysed, gainsaid, contradicted and told how truly, madly and deeply wrong I really was. It was good for the soul. You're a fine inspiration, Marcus, especially when I practice what I preach and fall far short of perfection. It's such a comfort to realise that my friend, Marcus, will be there to put me, and the readers right, when I go astray on the occasional fact. Anyway, back to this temptation to pray for you... 'No,' I thought, 'that wouldn't be fair praying for such an avowed and and dedicated atheist. After all, he's only got himself and his own human intellect to support him. It really would be unfair of me to resort to calling in supernatural help. So, Marcus, you know what I did...? I prayed for you anyway. I know, if you can't trust the clergy who can you trust? Nice to have you back where you belong, my friend.
very kind of you I'm sure, I hope it will make you feel good.
Makes no difference to me. . . . . but rest assured I may offer a but of analysis on future contributions.
If you liked this article and would like to share it with others on the web who might be searching for good content we've made it easy for you to do it.
At the bottom of all articles, you'll see links to six sites. These sites - commonly called 'social bookmark' or 'social news' sites - have large communities of web users who share and rate interesting, useful and fun things on the web.
Clicking the links will automatically add the address of the story you are reading to one of these sites, letting you share it with others. Each site will ask you to register to share stories. Registration is free and once a member, you can store, recommend and search for stories that interest you.
Print
Email this
Comment
