DARWEN town centre is even more depressing now than it was early in the new year, the last time I'd taken a careful look around and counted the empty shops and offices and the empty market stalls.
"Don't tell everyone how bad it really is," traders who've known me for years asked then.
Nobody bothers now. They haven't given up, but a lot of them are more than gloomy.
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Bridge Street in particular has crumbled.
By 12 o'clock it was like one of those scenes in the old Western films where everyone hides behind the curtains while the two gunslingers close in for the showdown.
They could shoot a remake of High Noon here. Da-di-da-da da-di-da-daa-daa...
I remember the good old days of the town centre; the bustling market hall and the outside market with "Cousin Bob" and all the rest of the gang. I can't remember an empty shop or stall.
Hilda Wilson had a stall when "Cousin Bob" was entertaining the crowds.
And she's still there, more than 50 years later, helping her son Clive to make something of a living from his handful of stalls.
As she told a Telegraph colleague a few months ago: "Darwen market used to be one of the busiest in the North West.
"It's getting hard to make a living now but Darwen folk are still smashing.
"We've built up a wonderful friendship with them over the years."
Her son Clive showed me round the market. He counted 15 empty stalls out of about 66.
"I have to take hundreds of pounds a day to break even," he explained. "It's not easy."
Clive and his colleagues on the market have been asking the Council for practical support.
But so far they've been offered such things as training and budgeting packs.
"We know how it all works," he says. "We've been doing it for years."
The Market Hall, so bright, busy and warm when I used to wait there for the Pothouse bus 50 years ago, has lost its sparkle, while the once-bustling market annexe is a shell.
Shops and offices around the centre have been closed for years with little sign that someone will take up the challenge of opening a retail outlet.
The Ethel Austin chain is struggling.
Clive Wilson is remarkably philosophical.
"Trade is bad everywhere. We appreciate that.
"We need the continued support of local folk and we need some on-the-ground initiatives.
"What we seem to have is a top-heavy management structure."
I would like to see the following stores in Darwen, Au-Natural, New Look, Primark, Book Works, Hobby Craft and a decent shoe/bag shop, however I know that even if we got them, then we have to entice people from other towns to use them instead of darwen people going to other towns to use these shops.
I would like to see the following stores in Darwen, Au-Natural, New Look, Primark, Book Works, Hobby Craft and a decent shoe/bag shop, however I know that even if we got them, then we have to entice people from other towns to use them instead of darwen people going to other towns to use these shops.
Posted by: Councillor Michael Johnson on 4:37pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Bury Market is a perfect model of how a market should run.
You have an old fashioned victorian style out door market slap bang in the centre of a new multi use shopping centre with all the top name stores around the same area.
Burry market is bustling and all the stalls are full.
Strangley enough the stalls at Bury are cheaper than the stalls our council overcharge, sorry rent to our traders.
Why is it that BwD seem to get all the basics wrong in Darwen? maybe that is why people like myself are fighting for our own town council so we are not having to spend our time solving the problems in Blackburn when we have no idea what Blackburns ward problems are. Just like they have no idea about Darwen, an example of thei is when Blackburn councillors wanted to let the disabled go out unsupervised in Sunnyhurst Woods on the Top paths with the tramper buggys.
They wouldnt let Horses on that path because it was too dangerous.
This shows what they know about Darwen.
Bury Market is a perfect model of how a market should run.
You have an old fashioned victorian style out door market slap bang in the centre of a new multi use shopping centre with all the top name stores around the same area.
Burry market is bustling and all the stalls are full.
Strangley enough the stalls at Bury are cheaper than the stalls our council overcharge, sorry rent to our traders.
Why is it that BwD seem to get all the basics wrong in Darwen? maybe that is why people like myself are fighting for our own town council so we are not having to spend our time solving the problems in Blackburn when we have no idea what Blackburns ward problems are. Just like they have no idea about Darwen, an example of thei is when Blackburn councillors wanted to let the disabled go out unsupervised in Sunnyhurst Woods on the Top paths with the tramper buggys.
They wouldnt let Horses on that path because it was too dangerous.
This shows what they know about Darwen.
Posted by: you have to be joking johnson on 4:52pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Is this the same Cllr Michael Johnson who is part of the Coalition running the town.
Read the article on Darwen Market, it is at its worst for years, again the same coalition he is part of
Is this the same Cllr Michael Johnson who is part of the Coalition running the town.
Read the article on Darwen Market, it is at its worst for years, again the same coalition he is part of
Give the coalition chance, they have only just had twelve months to try to put right what the labour party messed up over many years.
we did not want an Acedemy in the town centre Lbour said we had to.
we did not want fortnightly bin collections Labour said we had to and till the coalition took power Labour had their way,
we said we wanted decent shops Labour had other ideas and gave us more fast food takeaways the coalition has also been known to refuse anymore.
we wanted explanations why the headstones were being vandalised by the so called headstone testing crewe another Labour disaster.
then they wonder why they lost so many seats in darwen and look set to lose more, they are saying they need to hold onto the ones they have got and take two new seats as well to get back in power. well if Labour get back in God help us all, we will have a huge rate rise next year will go back on fortnightly bin collections, and be told what we are having whether we want it or not.
Give the coalition chance, they have only just had twelve months to try to put right what the labour party messed up over many years.
we did not want an Acedemy in the town centre Lbour said we had to.
we did not want fortnightly bin collections Labour said we had to and till the coalition took power Labour had their way,
we said we wanted decent shops Labour had other ideas and gave us more fast food takeaways the coalition has also been known to refuse anymore.
we wanted explanations why the headstones were being vandalised by the so called headstone testing crewe another Labour disaster.
then they wonder why they lost so many seats in darwen and look set to lose more, they are saying they need to hold onto the ones they have got and take two new seats as well to get back in power. well if Labour get back in God help us all, we will have a huge rate rise next year will go back on fortnightly bin collections, and be told what we are having whether we want it or not.
We went into the 3 day market as usual today at lunch time. It looked like it was doing very well. The stallholders had a pleasant word with everybody in contrast to the indifference shown to us in Netto. A new stall had been set up selling duvets etc and they were handing out leaflets to promote their products. The area that is really pathetic is at the far end adjacent to School Street - just two or three stalls and a big empty floor area. This should be used in some way as I would be very depressed to have a stall there. The coalition have been in charge for just 12 months now and I am hoping that they are strengthened on May 1st (rose coloured specs I hear you say) but the other lot had plenty of time to sort things out but they just snipe from the sidelines and even try to pinch some of the credit for the low Council tax (Do you remember the scare stories when the revised plans for the Leisure Centre were announced? It will be sky high etc) The above article says "Ethel Austin are struggling" They are in liquidation nationally so surely Harry is not blaming that on Darwen shoppers is he?
We went into the 3 day market as usual today at lunch time. It looked like it was doing very well. The stallholders had a pleasant word with everybody in contrast to the indifference shown to us in Netto. A new stall had been set up selling duvets etc and they were handing out leaflets to promote their products. The area that is really pathetic is at the far end adjacent to School Street - just two or three stalls and a big empty floor area. This should be used in some way as I would be very depressed to have a stall there. The coalition have been in charge for just 12 months now and I am hoping that they are strengthened on May 1st (rose coloured specs I hear you say) but the other lot had plenty of time to sort things out but they just snipe from the sidelines and even try to pinch some of the credit for the low Council tax (Do you remember the scare stories when the revised plans for the Leisure Centre were announced? It will be sky high etc) The above article says "Ethel Austin are struggling" They are in liquidation nationally so surely Harry is not blaming that on Darwen shoppers is he?
Good for you JH. You must have been doing your entry when I was doing mine as I did not see it before I started!! Our thoughts are similar as anyone can see.
Yes, quite right. Vote for the coalition or we will be back in the dark old days as enumerated by JH.
Good for you JH. You must have been doing your entry when I was doing mine as I did not see it before I started!! Our thoughts are similar as anyone can see.
Yes, quite right. Vote for the coalition or we will be back in the dark old days as enumerated by JH.
Posted by: Nigel, Perth, Australia on 1:53am Tue 29 Apr 08
The demise of the markets and the adjacent area started many years ago when Darwen was about to lose its autonomy, its Mayor, and form part of Blackburn Council. The construction of the new concrete market and the closure of School Street to traffic took the heart out of the town. In subsequent years 'old fashioned' market towns had a revival, particularly those offering craft markets at weekends, and Darwen town centre has never recovered. The old Coop buildings in School Street were neglected and the rest is history. It is probably not too late to reverse these architectural mistakes, although there would be some hardship for current businesses, but leaving the centre as it is will only contribute to further degradation of the town.
The demise of the markets and the adjacent area started many years ago when Darwen was about to lose its autonomy, its Mayor, and form part of Blackburn Council. The construction of the new concrete market and the closure of School Street to traffic took the heart out of the town. In subsequent years 'old fashioned' market towns had a revival, particularly those offering craft markets at weekends, and Darwen town centre has never recovered. The old Coop buildings in School Street were neglected and the rest is history. It is probably not too late to reverse these architectural mistakes, although there would be some hardship for current businesses, but leaving the centre as it is will only contribute to further degradation of the town.
Nigel ha a good point.. we all long for the good old days, however, the good old days did'nt have multi-nationals slashing prices from already exploited producers!
The reality is that the multi-nationals are worried about two things 'each other and markets'.. They spend a fortune on brandings that make us believe we are actually in a market? They are laughing at us right now!
The council needs to help the traders by charging them an affordable rent and providing better signage to both advertise the market and assist shoppers. The traders need to start to compeate with the multi-nationals, not on price, but quality, locally grown, choice, advise and be open at a time that suits the shopper, [bold]not them[/bold] !
As for politics... I don't see the point at a local level, however i would agree that the new lot need to be given the time to find their feet and make the changes.
Parkin Mad
Nigel ha a good point.. we all long for the good old days, however, the good old days did'nt have multi-nationals slashing prices from already exploited producers!
The reality is that the multi-nationals are worried about two things 'each other and markets'.. They spend a fortune on brandings that make us believe we are actually in a market? They are laughing at us right now!
The council needs to help the traders by charging them an affordable rent and providing better signage to both advertise the market and assist shoppers. The traders need to start to compeate with the multi-nationals, not on price, but quality, locally grown, choice, advise and be open at a time that suits the shopper, not them !
As for politics... I don't see the point at a local level, however i would agree that the new lot need to be given the time to find their feet and make the changes.
Carlo! What a star. And so is Clive and the rest. If Clive decided to call it a day there'd be nowt left. I suppose Clive is the real star "living" next to Brenda!
Carlo! What a star. And so is Clive and the rest. If Clive decided to call it a day there'd be nowt left. I suppose Clive is the real star "living" next to Brenda!
Excellent comments throughout this thread. Would just like to pick up on what Parkin Mad said. I'd do all my shopping at markets in East Lancashire if I could ever access them but by the time I'm home from work they're long since closed. The only day they are open and I am available is Saturday, but I go to football or do something. Open on Sunday or one evening a week please!
Excellent comments throughout this thread. Would just like to pick up on what Parkin Mad said. I'd do all my shopping at markets in East Lancashire if I could ever access them but by the time I'm home from work they're long since closed. The only day they are open and I am available is Saturday, but I go to football or do something. Open on Sunday or one evening a week please!
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
The demise of the markets and the adjacent area started many years ago when Darwen was about to lose its autonomy, its Mayor, and form part of Blackburn Council. The construction of the new concrete market and the closure of School Street to traffic took the heart out of the town. In subsequent years \'old fashioned\' market towns had a revival, particularly those offering craft markets at weekends, and Darwen town centre has never recovered. The old Coop buildings in School Street were neglected and the rest is history. It is probably not too late to reverse these architectural mistakes, although there would be some hardship for current businesses, but leaving the centre as it is will only contribute to further degradation of the town.[/quote] It's a pity the old Co-op buildings were not gutted and modernized inside, and the exterior left as it was.......with beautiful architecture and of historical importance both now and in future.
Nigel wrote:
The demise of the markets and the adjacent area started many years ago when Darwen was about to lose its autonomy, its Mayor, and form part of Blackburn Council. The construction of the new concrete market and the closure of School Street to traffic took the heart out of the town. In subsequent years \'old fashioned\' market towns had a revival, particularly those offering craft markets at weekends, and Darwen town centre has never recovered. The old Coop buildings in School Street were neglected and the rest is history. It is probably not too late to reverse these architectural mistakes, although there would be some hardship for current businesses, but leaving the centre as it is will only contribute to further degradation of the town.
It's a pity the old Co-op buildings were not gutted and modernized inside, and the exterior left as it was.......with beautiful architecture and of historical importance both now and in future.
Posted by: interested observer on 4:56pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Councillor Michael Johnson[/bold] wrote:
Bury Market is a perfect model of how a market should run. You have an old fashioned victorian style out door market slap bang in the centre of a new multi use shopping centre with all the top name stores around the same area. Burry market is bustling and all the stalls are full. Strangley enough the stalls at Bury are cheaper than the stalls our council overcharge, sorry rent to our traders. Why is it that BwD seem to get all the basics wrong in Darwen? maybe that is why people like myself are fighting for our own town council so we are not having to spend our time solving the problems in Blackburn when we have no idea what Blackburns ward problems are. Just like they have no idea about Darwen, an example of thei is when Blackburn councillors wanted to let the disabled go out unsupervised in Sunnyhurst Woods on the Top paths with the tramper buggys. They wouldnt let Horses on that path because it was too dangerous. This shows what they know about Darwen. [/quote] Cllr Johnson talks nonsense yet again - the population of Bury is far, far bigger than Darwen it can support top name stores. Darwen could never do this, the only alternative is go for more specialist small scale retail such as Clithero but even that will be very difficult given our proximity to larger towns and much lower income base than the Ribble Valley. Also I would point out that until Mr Johnson's recent rise to fame I've never seen him in Darwen TC and I've known him since he was a kid.
Councillor Michael Johnson wrote:
Bury Market is a perfect model of how a market should run. You have an old fashioned victorian style out door market slap bang in the centre of a new multi use shopping centre with all the top name stores around the same area. Burry market is bustling and all the stalls are full. Strangley enough the stalls at Bury are cheaper than the stalls our council overcharge, sorry rent to our traders. Why is it that BwD seem to get all the basics wrong in Darwen? maybe that is why people like myself are fighting for our own town council so we are not having to spend our time solving the problems in Blackburn when we have no idea what Blackburns ward problems are. Just like they have no idea about Darwen, an example of thei is when Blackburn councillors wanted to let the disabled go out unsupervised in Sunnyhurst Woods on the Top paths with the tramper buggys. They wouldnt let Horses on that path because it was too dangerous. This shows what they know about Darwen.
Cllr Johnson talks nonsense yet again - the population of Bury is far, far bigger than Darwen it can support top name stores. Darwen could never do this, the only alternative is go for more specialist small scale retail such as Clithero but even that will be very difficult given our proximity to larger towns and much lower income base than the Ribble Valley. Also I would point out that until Mr Johnson's recent rise to fame I've never seen him in Darwen TC and I've known him since he was a kid.
Posted by: Apolitical, Darwen on 12:07am Thu 1 May 08
[bold]The town centre of Darwen has lost 150 houses[/bold]and more. The cause - Labour's insistence on the Academy at Redearth, when it could have been sited at Robin Bank. However, there was only one market trader who gave evidence to the Public Inquiry. Town centres need adjacent dwellings not an Academy of 1600 pupils bussed in from heaven knows where and bussed out just as quickly. Graham Burgess and his Labour masters have much to answer for.
The town centre of Darwen has lost 150 housesand more. The cause - Labour's insistence on the Academy at Redearth, when it could have been sited at Robin Bank. However, there was only one market trader who gave evidence to the Public Inquiry. Town centres need adjacent dwellings not an Academy of 1600 pupils bussed in from heaven knows where and bussed out just as quickly. Graham Burgess and his Labour masters have much to answer for.
The fact is that you can barely string a couple of decent stalls together in Darwen. Markets are supposed to be good quality produce and goods at lower prices... Darwen just seems to have tat at high-street prices. Why would anyone want to go to Darwen market in its current state when there's Bolton and Bury just down the road?
The same goes for Darwens 'high-street' stores, they're all overpriced and you can rarely get what you need.
Who's to blame? Yes the council for one but the truth is that many of the local traders themselves are as much to blame by playing their insular club style politics. Darwen will never have any real shops because the traders and their cohorts block all plans that involve competition allowing only those they deem unthreatening to their business. Darwen needs to move forward if these traders wish to stay in business for much longer!
The fact is that you can barely string a couple of decent stalls together in Darwen. Markets are supposed to be good quality produce and goods at lower prices... Darwen just seems to have tat at high-street prices. Why would anyone want to go to Darwen market in its current state when there's Bolton and Bury just down the road?
The same goes for Darwens 'high-street' stores, they're all overpriced and you can rarely get what you need.
Who's to blame? Yes the council for one but the truth is that many of the local traders themselves are as much to blame by playing their insular club style politics. Darwen will never have any real shops because the traders and their cohorts block all plans that involve competition allowing only those they deem unthreatening to their business. Darwen needs to move forward if these traders wish to stay in business for much longer!
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 3:03pm Sat 3 May 08
I think it boils down to not being interested in supporting the poor.
Rich People go to swanky designer shops. The Poorest are the ones who need the Markets.
The Poorest will always exist. There is no solution for the poor. This Government seems to think it has come up with a solution that has solved something. It will never solve poverty.
There will always be those clinging on to the bottom rung of the ladder.
There should be more council support given to them and the markets. The rents should be reduced and they should be managed by The People who need to use them.
I think it boils down to not being interested in supporting the poor.
Rich People go to swanky designer shops. The Poorest are the ones who need the Markets.
The Poorest will always exist. There is no solution for the poor. This Government seems to think it has come up with a solution that has solved something. It will never solve poverty.
There will always be those clinging on to the bottom rung of the ladder.
There should be more council support given to them and the markets. The rents should be reduced and they should be managed by The People who need to use them.
I have just returned from Darwen TC. Idiot that I am, there was I expecting the shops to be open, so that they could attract all those people who are not normally around during the wee. Whatg I found was a TC closed, other than the Flea Market and Belly Dancers outside the Market Hall.
It is alright the TC traders complaining about dying trade, expensive rates and rents, but if they are not willing to put themselves out for the public, then the public will not put themselve out for the traders.
I have just returned from Darwen TC. Idiot that I am, there was I expecting the shops to be open, so that they could attract all those people who are not normally around during the wee. Whatg I found was a TC closed, other than the Flea Market and Belly Dancers outside the Market Hall.
It is alright the TC traders complaining about dying trade, expensive rates and rents, but if they are not willing to put themselves out for the public, then the public will not put themselve out for the traders.
Posted by: simplysimon, burnley on 11:54am Tue 6 May 08
The Council are there to serve the Community. It is not the Traders or the Poor that are elected to serve the community.
It is the Responsibility of Council. Are they exploiting the local People or serving them?
They should be supporting facilities that provide a service to the poorest in the community.
Not exploiting them and making a profit from them.
The Council are there to serve the Community. It is not the Traders or the Poor that are elected to serve the community.
It is the Responsibility of Council. Are they exploiting the local People or serving them?
They should be supporting facilities that provide a service to the poorest in the community.
Not exploiting them and making a profit from them.
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